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Clockworks Tokens

9 replies [Last post]
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 03:16
Taalt's picture
Taalt

So, going around roaming in the Arcade isn't such a hot idea anymore. So, how about Arcade rewards.

Any time you complete an Arcade level you get Clockwork Tokens according to the tier of the level - 1 token for tier 1, 2 tokens for tier 2, 3 tokens for tier 3. Possibly with getting no tokens for levels in a boss stratum.

And for tokens you need rewards. List follows, explanations as required later.

5 Clockwork Tokens: Grim Spark
5 Clockwork Tokens: Primal Spark
5 Clockwork Tokens: Forge Spark
100 Clockwork Tokens: Clockwork Charge (3 star)
100 Clockwork Tokens: Clockwork Suit (3 star)
100 Clockwork Tokens: Clockwork Helm (3 star)
150 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Clockwork Bomb (4 star)
150 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Fast Clockwork Suit (4 star)
150 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Fast Clockwork Helm (4 star)
150 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Dark Clockwork Suit (4 star)
150 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Dark Clockwork Helm (4 star)
150 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Survival Clockwork Suit (4 star)
150 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Survival Clockwork Helm (4 star)
200 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Clockwork Vortex (5 star)
200 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Swift Clockwork Suit (5 star)
200 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Swift Clockwork Helm (5 star)
200 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Fiendish Clockwork Suit (5 star)
200 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Fiendish Clockwork Helm (5 star)
200 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Insulating Clockwork Suit (5 star)
200 Clockwork Tokens: Recipe: Insulating Clockwork Helm (5 star)
300 Clockwork Tokens: Trinket Slot Upgrade
500 Clockwork Tokens: Weapon Slot Upgrade
1500 Clockwork Tokens: Silver Key

All items would be bound when acquired.

The Clockwork Bomb series are just Piercing alternatives of Electron/Graviton bomb lines.

The Clockwork Suit/Helm have Normal and Piercing armor and resistance 50% to Stun.
The Fast/Swift Clockwork Suit/Helm have Normal and Piercing armor, and Movement Speed Increase Low and Charge Time Reduction Low.
The Dark/Fiendish Clockwork Suit/Helm have Piercing and Shadow armor and resistance 50% to Poison and Curse.
The Survival/Insulating Clockwork Suit/Helm have Piercing and Elemental armor and resistance 50% to Fire and Freeze.
For appearance I'm picturing a Steampunk/Victorian feel with several interlocking gears that appear to have a function, in gold for regular clockwork, electric blue for swift, a dark red for fiendish and a grey for insulating.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 03:31
#1
Taalt's picture
Taalt
Some explanations for the

Some explanations for the Armors:

The current situation is that Piercing/Shadow and Piercing/Elemental are fairly tricky to get on armor. This would allow a lot more of combinations covering every type of damage without using trinkets for that. Of course, said defense would be lower to compensate, but such is balancing.

And some alternative ideas for these:

Only the Sparks being bound on acquisition.
The recipes being added to Tier 3 Basil instead, and requiring a Clockwork Gear component costing 50 Tokens for each level. This would allow you to get the items faster if you paid for them.
Cutting the Token costs in half. This may be a necessary step to take if boss stratums are excluded from getting tokens. 2 tokens each for the Sparks, for anyone trying to be pedantic.

EDIT: Also a missed note:

The Clockwork tokens would themselves be bound like all tokens.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 09:18
#2
The-Ark's picture
The-Ark
Well, you have silver keys

Well, you have silver keys costing more than 7 times as much as 5 star items, yet the cost 50 less energy, and thats given you only upgrade it from 4 star. Not to mention the slot upgrades are even more off.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 09:24
#3
Taalt's picture
Taalt
I do believe you missed the

I do believe you missed the part about "recipe" there.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 09:44
#4
Juances's picture
Juances
~

Temproary solution. Get everything in a month, never go back again.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 09:48
#5
The-Ark's picture
The-Ark
Oh, it appears I did miss

Oh, it appears I did miss that. But that still doesnt explain the slots costing more.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 16:37
#6
Taalt's picture
Taalt
The reason the Trinket Slots

The reason the Trinket Slots / Weapon Slots / Silver Keys are at the end is to specifically make this a longer-term solution - to have something to get with clockwork tokens even after you've unlocked everything else. Another idea is mist tanks at 200 tokens, but the forum response to acquiring mist tanks anywhere has been somewhat negative.

The reason the slots and key cost more is because they can normally be acquired only with CE. And CE can only be acquired by paying Three Rings. The CE cost isn't guaranteed to stay forever fixed, even if Punch was a masterstroke to stabilize the economy.

EDIT: To maintain thread readability: If you feel tl;dr about the next post, feel free to skip it and my post directly after it.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 16:09
#7
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
J

Take out the upgrades, keys, and other tokens.

Now, you may be aware of the thread by Kentard relevant to creating new equipment; it has many excellent ideas with mechanics, stats, and concept art. Make the 2/3* available for 100 tokens but untradable and not unbindable to force people to obtain the items themselves, the recipes available through Basil to further encourage Clockwork usage. Now you have a double whammy; people want to run the Clockworks to get those untradable low rank items while grabbing the recipes to upgrade them on the way.

The equipment is addressed below.

"Clockwork" bomb
"Works just like Graviton/Electron but with pierce"
The mechanic would not be logical to inflict pierce damage. How about a damage per second bomb, similar to vaporizers, which inflicts damage over time in the area by having spikes pop out of the ground at random? Something similar has been attempted in the past but came out as 1400% overpowered compared to Nitronome.

Vaporizers last five seconds after being placed. Assuming the "Lichen Colony" bomb is the same as other vaporizers but releases spikes at random in the area of effect it would have to be less damage per second in comparison to Nitronome to keep its range balanced.

Assuming Nitrnome has max charge, no damage buffs, H10, on a neutral target which is not poisoned or affected by any buff/debuff, it would do 203 damage per target and takes three seconds to charge:

203 damage / 3 seconds = 67.666...7 damage/second

Vaporizers and standard (Blast, Spine Cone) bombs have the same range when at the same star rank. Vaporizers under the same conditions as the Nitrnome has give 153 damage/second; assuming this value is also used for the "Lichen Colony" bomb, the maxed charge would take four seconds to prime:

153 damage/second * 5 seconds = 765 damage per target if the enemy stays in range for the whole duration

This is wrong. That value should not exceed 200 or be 140-180. If it lasts for five seconds and inflicts 160 on each target if they stay in range for the entire duration it would be the following:

160 damage / 5 seconds = 32 damage/second

Considering the spikes will not cover the entire area of effect, the base value ought to be bumped up a little.

180 damage / 5 seconds = 36 damage/second

This is not a significant increase, but Dark Retribution already follows a similar rate; the Seerus bomb covers a smaller area at the same rank but has four orbs circling the two orbitals with two orbs on each ring, giving more consistant damage.

What would happen if it were bumped to the max?

200 damage / 5 seconds = 40 damage/second

Assuming the randomized spike placement in the blast radius will cover exactly half of the area, this damage rate is halved due to averaging of values.

40 / 2 = 20 damage/second

This is getting ridiculous. That value should stay around 40-60, since Nitronome has 67.666...7 and is considered the highest damage to time bomb excluding Retribution due to its restricted availability. Actually, lock the end rate at 50 and see what happens:

50 damage/second * 5 seconds = 250 damage

Assuming the target is hit by a spike every second to inflict the damage it would overpower Nitronome, though statistically that would only happen 50% of the time.

"Clockwork" set:
normal/pierce, stun

Instead of whatever this is, consider asking Kent to borrow the pierce demo set from his project; actually, do that for all of this equipment. Also, keep in mind this should be available to all users; premium and otherwise. That means no reward for doing Cradle and All; consider using the survivor achievements as a base for more skilled players to further benefit from surviving without dropping, but keep the numbers somewhat low to prevent T1 farming. You have not suggested this but it would encourage players to learn how to not be killed, though it may also result in players using each other as scrap shields.

Keep in mind this should not blatantly throw tokens at those who use an elevator pass so keep the token values fairly low; the token to tier system may work, but the token required to obtain the items would have to increase. Also, it has been pointed out before, but keep the recipes out of it and make the base equipment untradable as the Seerus weapons are; that way less competent users will be forced to work for it. For the tokens I recommend changing it slightly; each tier is supposed to be twice as difficult as the last, proportionately following this rate:

T1 = 1, T2 = 2, T3 = 4

If the equipment is only 100 tokens it would take only 25 T3 floors to obtain one. Considering how much Kent has in his thread it would take a while to get everything even with this, but if everything is untradable it would provide no new market items; this has its benefits and disadvantages:

If all of the items are untradable players will become more isolated from the market, but the items are meant to only reward those who bother to run through the Arcarde rather than missions. Do you only want Arcade users to enjoy it or should everyone be able to buy everything unbound, which would make the game more "Pay 2 Win"? See new users who spend fifty bucks on CE and grab some random equipment and a Fang of Vog for examples.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:02
#8
Taalt's picture
Taalt
-

So in short, I should remove everything about the system making it actually reward playing Arcade instead of making it another grind that you do once and never touch again, and then I should remove all the gear suggestions I had and replace them with gear nowhere near alike because... why?

Just no. And your post is way too long for the content. Brevity is the soul of wit.

EDIT: Made my post more polite.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:02
#9
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
I've suggested this

I've suggested this twice. The more formal one: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/47011

+1; revise the rewards a bit

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