Spiral Knights - So I've been noticing a trend here.....

So I've been noticing a trend here.....

38 replies [Last post]

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:16

Fehzor

I've been watching the development of this game for quite a while, and that which I haven't watched, I've read up on. And so here is the way that all new content goes-

Stage one: New content arrives! Good day! Everyone is happy, although a bit.. confused at the slowness of the update. It took three months for this??? (This is sometimes skipped for the next step)
Stage two: The rest of the patch arrives! *with conditions!* Everyone is now distressed as they were jipped by the *with conditions*, and some quarreling happens amongst forum goers, as to whether or not it was a justified *with conditions* or an unjustified money grab. Regardless of what is decided (usually that it was a money grab), nothing happens.
Stage three: Some people leave due to the inaction, or late action thereof from OOO. Those who chose to justify the *with conditions* post things like "good riddance" and "Pfffft" on their dramatic "I'm leaving!" threads.
Stage four: More promotions are given out with CE, and some bug fixes, and time goes on. No new content is made, and slowly players start to leave.... until the next "big patch" , which contains something justifiable as content. Go to stage one to see how this will play out.

So we end up with a short term net gain in profit for OOO, and a net loss in players for spiral knights and OOO. This produces a small playerbase that accepts anything that OOO throws at them. Some examples, in order of happenstance:
-Unbinding update/Auction house and crafting costs being raised.
-Roarmulus earning players far less than jelly king
-Shadow lair keys being obtained at a ridiculously low rate, and then at a large amount of ce, as well as being "repeated content"
-Operation Crimson Hammer being made P2P directly before its launch after directly being stated to cost CE, then being traded only for steam people etc.
-Getting jipp'd out of two accessories on proto helms, height and eyes.

So if you'd like to see what I mean, go google some of those. You'll find some lovely threads about how much people liked them.

Anyways, my point is, this isn't working. I'd like to suggest doing something that works better. As a general rule of thumb, I'd like to see content that does the following:
-Retains older players
-Makes money through SUBTLE means that aren't biting me in the face (EG, crown sinks, weapons that cost either money or are craftable)
-Gets new players in the long run; as in, doesn't portray OOO as a group of devilites working for SEGA. That makes people not want to stay.
-Gets players more involved in working with each other rather than less involved in working with each other (EG. Guild halls over missions)
-Focus on enabling the in game player to player market rather than squashing it out
-Focuses on players satisfaction more than money

*Added on bonus section!*

Why do I want these things? Because in the long run I believe this will result in-
-A larger and happier playerbase
-People not leaving after every update out of rage
-More profit for OOO, and thus more updates and bosses for us to fight
-More cooperation, and a better community
-A higher percentage of players that want to stay upon trying out the game

TL;DR
As Rommil put it-
"The focus should be on improving a good game into an amazing game. If they accomplish this, the money will make itself."

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:27

Taalt

To be fair, crown sinks

To be fair, crown sinks aren't money grabs - energy sinks (especially keys) are, crown sinks are just there to have the economy function.

Before they introduced Punch the energy rates were fluctuating to the tune of being 4kcr per 100ce after a promotion and then rising up to 8kcr in two weeks.

I, too, have noticed a trend: Three Rings seems to be working on something, and only Sega knows if it's Spiral Knights related. And all of this stuff takes forever because they probably have the people creating them also working on that higher-profile task.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:24

Fehzor

@Taalt

1. Crown sinks DO make OOO money, as it costs players crowns, which they must either earn or buy with money through selling CE. It just isn't as much money they're making off of them, and it isn't as direct.

2. I didn't call crown sinks money grabs!
"-Makes money through SUBTLE means that aren't biting me in the face (EG, crown sinks, weapons that cost either money or are craftable)"
means make money off of things that aren't directly money grabs, rather than smacking the playerbase in the face repeatedly with money grabs. The examples were of things that aren't money grabs but would subtley make OOO money.

3. Directly before punch ce cost a lot more than that, and punch reduced the crown rate substantially. I would like proof of that claim, as I remember it quite differently. Also, vise was a huge ce sink, and helped to make the price rise again.

4. I would like evidence to the fact that Sega oversees OOO directly as you say, as well as evidence that you have any knowledge of what they do internally. Because just throwing things like "This stuff takes forever because they have management problems maybe!" isn't an argument. If they do have management problems like you suggest, then of course, fixing them would be what I'm asking. Obviously, making real content deserves more people than making trashy updates that aren't really content (E.G. Promotions, this new 'pets' thing, etc.). Don't get me wrong, I like the "trashy updates" and am fine with them, but I'd like to see.

I would love to hear your respond to this, because frankly I'm kind of curious as to what thought you put into your post. Are you really happy with no real content ever? Do you like being buried by accessories before being allowed to spend 3000 ce or 3 dollars to fight 5 gremlin levels to earn a hat and some weapons?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:45

Taalt

1: The money going into crown

1: The money going into crown sinks has to come from the players playing levels, and cannot be acquired directly from Three Rings. So I would say that no, they don't bring Three Rings money, except from the elevator passes and elevator CE used to acquire those crowns.

2: Sorry, misunderstood you there.

3: Yeah, I also remember that before Punch CE cost a lot more, and Punch helped not only reduce the cost of CE in crowns but also to stabilize the market a great deal. Before Punch the fluctuations resulting from promotions were a fair bit more drastic.

4: I used "only Sega knows" as comedic hyperbole. Various Three Rings people have hinted at them being very busy with work - even on these forums, more so on their personal blogs - and thus I figure they are creating something videogame-related. Or maybe they just really want to beat the Penny Arcade crew in table tennis. But, whatever this thing being created is, it's still under wraps, and these small updates we're getting are obviously not it. I'm not precisely happy about the slow rate of additional content - but I'm in no hurry and got plenty of other games if I feel like taking a break, and I want to see what they're working on before casting judgment. And even if it isn't Spiral Knights related, they probably have more time to make Spiral Knights content whenever they're finished with whatever the big project is. And hey, the worst case scenario is we'll see the nerdiest table tennis match of the century, and that's something to look forward to.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:56

Effrul

Sega is Spiral Knights'

Sega is Spiral Knights' publisher. Three Rings have to run new Spiral Knights content past Sega because they publish the game. Assuming that Sega oversee elements of the game's production doesn't require intimate knowledge of the companies' inner workings; it doesn't really require any knowledge more specialised than knowing what a publisher does.

What would qualify as "actual content" in this context? More levels, like those introduced when the mission structure came in? More gear? That takes a while to design and test, you know. What? I suppose what I'm asking is "do you have an actual suggestion here, or are you just asking Three Rings to 'make the game better'"? Because that ain't anything like useful.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:40

Fehzor

@taalt

1. ...That would be the point. Players whom are buying CE to buy stuff will still buy CE so that they can buy crowns. It won't make nearly as much as I said, but OOO would still get money for it. Thus, crown sinks still make OOO money. You're argument has the same folly as saying that the game is entirely F2P because players can bet item drops from boxes- its silly to think that no one buys CE to buy cr, when there is direct evidence to the contrary.

4. Knowing that OOO is working because they say so != knowing that OOO is spending too much time on making non-important content.

@Effrul
My "actual suggestion":
"I'd like to suggest doing something that works better. As a general rule of thumb, I'd like to see content that does the following:
-Retains older players
-Makes money through SUBTLE means that aren't biting me in the face (EG, crown sinks, weapons that cost either money or are craftable)
-Gets new players in the long run; as in, doesn't portray OOO as a group of devilites working for SEGA. That makes people not want to stay.
-Gets players more involved in working with each other rather than less involved in working with each other (EG. Guild halls over missions)
-Focuses on players satisfaction more than money"

Essentially, I'm tired of them making content that is just a small visual change, or is just a money grab in disguise. I want them to make things like more enemies and levels, yes, but also that these things be free or require crowns to use, things like more token items- things like that. Not things that are just sneaky money grabs. Does that make sense to you?

On the issue of Sega reviewing every little detail- you don't know that Sega looks at every little thing that they do. Sega probably doesn't have the time, it may be in their contract... just because they are owned by Sega doesn't meant that they are directly under Sega's prying eye 24/7. They could only meet with SEGA once every month to sum up what they've done for all we know. They probably see each other more than that, but then we don't ever know how much control SEGA exerts over OOO.

And even then, why does it matter if SEGA is controlling their every action? I'm still suggesting this to whoever is in charge of it. Nor should I have to know precisely how the company works in order to suggest something like this, so even if the head of SEGA does come and meet with OOO every week on tuesday to review their work, I'm still going to want them to make content like this. The original point about us not knowing what goes down was in not knowing what happened internally at OOO regarding what they were working on anyway, and I said that we didn't know how much time they allotted to producing every little thing.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:07

Serell

I like the new content.

I like the new content. Mewkats are sooooo cute ^_^
They can make new bosses later, i want more cats! :3

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:39

Fehzor

Thats funny. The boss idea

Thats funny. The boss idea that Nick posted on was about making a giant kat that herded smaller ones. Whose to say you can't have both? I mean, you've already got a pet kat in a bag to toit around Haven...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 01:51

Hexzyle

This is not a suggestion.

This is not a suggestion. Move to GD.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:13

Fehzor

I just explained how it was a

I just explained how it was a suggestion. Though I do suppose it does fit being a discussion more, and if people are just going to keep thinking that it is one...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:20

#10

Kitty-Softpaws

Three Rings's game Spiral

Three Rings's game Spiral Knights must've fell from heaven because it looks pretty messed up right now.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:26

#11

Thimol

-----

That would be the ideal way to do it, but how do you pull this off without either some perceived loss of profit on the part of OOO or displeasing the already unpleasable playerbase? The game is kind of at a crossroads here, unless OOO can whip up something extraordinary without effort, and comes at little cost, which sounds impossible at this juncture.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:27

#12

Batabii

I like crown sinks because

I like crown sinks because they drive down CE prices.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:59

#13

Kitty-Softpaws

I don't heavy game so can

I don't heavy game so can someone explain to me wtf does crown sink mean?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:00

#14

Asukalan

You forget about the part

You forget about the part where on original update announced there was that content will be buyable with CE but just before patch going live OOO changes it to "avaliable with purchase" as we saw with Operation Crimson Hammer expansion pack.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:16

#15

Slayzz

OOO needs to come up with an

OOO needs to come up with an update that satisfies both the rich and the poor. So far, the updates have mainly been one-sided. (Shadow Lairs for the rich, lockable UVs for the poor, etc. With some updates that satisfy both). The updates that satisfy both were pretty insignificant.

Pretty much the only update I could see benefitting every single person would be:
New Dungeon Levels!

Make new dungeons for T1, T2, T3; new NON PAYWALL bosses, new level ideas (Candlestick keep was excellent, though a bit low on profitability).

The best improvement at this time in the game would be the addition of a third dimension. Jumping, platforms, hidden treasure rooms, elevators, and that sort of stuff in this 3D environment would provide an exponential interest gain from players, compensate for new plates leaving cause of the crap energy system, give older players rejuvenated interest, and pretty much improv everything.

Then, people could buy jump boosters, and other stuff like that, and have better improvements at higher prices of CE to satisfy rich players. Imagine jumping off a platform, and releasing a gran Faust charge right through the jelly king in midair? That would be cool, but a hell of a lot of coding.

TL:DR It's not really important enough to read, but if you are interested in reading another new idea, go right ahead :)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:19

#16

Neodasus

Well to be honest all I want

Well to be honest all I want is DLC that is more profitable than F2P content.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:37

#17

Sylveon

Well if you ask me

I want a patch that nerfs the salt bomb line. That bomb's just brilliant with it's piercing damage, far too brilliant.

Oh, and let's make Vanaduke the only stratum worth visiting in T3, because players don't care about variety! They'll be spamming the KoA mission and enjoy it, dang it!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:48

#18

Rommil

fehzor

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/51947

post #15.. This is my solution to the problem you just addressed.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:48

#19

Fehzor

@Sylv

If the game is to become great, it will need to expand its playerbase quite a bit. This does in fact mean that it will need to not focus 100% on making a profit, and will need to cater to the masses. The goal of the game after all, should be first to provide a game, and second to provide a profit. I didn't suggest something as direct as "YOU NEED TO MAKE THIS EXACTLY AS IVE SAID IT!" because we have an entire suggestions forum that is filled with that kind of thing, and I feel that OOO probably has their own ideas- I just want them to follow through with their ideas in order to satisfy what I've said. For instance, this is how I would have done the recent update regarding height and eyes:

First, created an item that did all of the changes, using the height icon. When used, it would spawn one eye changer, one height changer, and 2 head accessories after asking the player a series of questions. This would be mailed to all existing players, and would be bound. Along with this, would be the other usable items that the devs made- the height changers, and the eyes, which would still cost 50K, and would still be in the lockboxes. They did that fine, for the most part. The CE promotion that it came with should have given out one specific eye type rather than a lockbox that would have been only findable from the event, these eyes don't look that hard to make to me (they might be, but even then), and making an additional eye type for an event like this shouldn't be too much of a challenge.

Regarding UV's being held:

Believe it or not, one can actually calculate the exact chance of getting a UV with the old system versus with the new system per crown, it is in fact fairly basic statistics. In order to keep a UV when rolling, one should pay the equivalent of the old chance- this means that while strengthening the old system of UVs by letting players keep them, building the ultimate weapon should simply require less rolls, and should not completely ruin the player market- though I've a sneaking suspicion that OOO wants to kill that.

@Slayzz

Jumping, no. Too much effort on the Dev's part, and a bit ridiculous. But hidden rooms? More bosses? More dungeons? That would be what the existing players need and want to be happy with the game, yes.

@Kitty-Softpaws

A crown sink is something that takes crowns out of the game, for instance lockdown, featured auctions and punch.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:49

#20

Rommil

lol

i just realized my link was redundant. you were the post right after mine in that thread XD

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:53

#21

Typical-Guy

Good post. Hopefully some

Good post. Hopefully some action gets taken about it but I'm not crossing any fingers.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:59

#22

Fehzor

@Rommil

Yes, your idea of creating a T4 does fit my suggestion to an extent, except that it doesn't effect the newest players in the game, while motivating all of the existing players at the "end game" to essentially go craft more armor and thus "waste" ce. I'd like to see more T2 bosses and maybe another T3 boss more than a T4, as the players are already spread out enough. Thus, it fails in that it does not bring all players together well enough.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:56

#23

Rommil

I agree with Fehzor premise 100%

In not so few words, i think (sorry if i'm off-base here) Fehzor's main point is something like this:

The Focus should be on improving a good game into an amazing game. If they accomplish this, the money will make itself.

Thats one of the issues a lot of us more savvy players have with the game. Rather than improving the game full-force, retaining a majority of their player base while attracting new players (who also stick around), OOO seems to be trying to squeeze as much profits as possible. This is largely resulting short term profits at the cost of long term customers. If they simply focused on making the game as amazing as possible, the long-term prospects of SK would be greatly enhanced.

Having been here a year, the game isn't any better than it was when i started. It is certainly different, but better (not worse either. just different). Know, there are certainly more customizable options, which i am all for, but at the heart of it all, that doesn't affect gameplay. ---this critique is a bit tongue-in-cheek ,the game is marginally better, but imo it hasn't made a year's worth of progress during that year's worth of time.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:58

#24

Thimol

-----

I didn't suggest something as direct as "YOU NEED TO MAKE THIS EXACTLY AS IVE SAID IT!"

Well, not really what I was getting at. I'm saying that there's a bit of a dilemma here between pleasing players and getting new content.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:03

#25

Fehzor

@Sylvanius Ok, I'm not

@Sylvanius

Ok, I'm not getting what you're saying.... you say there is a dilemma between creating content and pleasing players? Whenever they make actual new content (EG, a new enemy/boss) players are happy for that moment in time. Much of the "new content" lately has been things like "new opportunity to buy ce" and "now it is easier to buy UVs!", you know, things like that.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:06

#26

Thimol

-----

I was referring to something like the Expansion missions. I guess this time around, there won't be any new "content" (The Core, according to most) without paying, which will upset most players.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:09

#27

Rommil

agreed

features and content are not synonymous in my estimation.

Eyes, heights, accessories, pets in a bag, uv rolling are all features.

content: Candlestick Keep. New gremlin boss. Shadow liars. Thats about it, imo.

***then there is a handful of stuff thats a bit of a grey area, drones+whisps, pylops, skeleton gun pups. Technically new content but not really. Just like missions systems is sort of a new feature, sort of new content, but still fall shy of adding new gameplay experience. Altho there are a couple cool thinss that i would consider new content, such as gauntlet, and that other trojan mini-boss***

I don't see any dilemma between creating content and pleasing players. I think the dilemma is between features and pleasing players. New content would be the most pleasing thing possible for players.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:22

#28

Fehzor

@Sylvanius Ah yes, that is

@Sylvanius

Ah yes, that is what I meant with the "Make money subtly". You don't have to force people to pay a ton of money for a new piece of content. Making a new boss for example, would require the players to make new gear, which would require them to pay CE for it. And you'd get some people with that for sure. Similarly, the new boss gear would require crafting to 5*, thus players would be paying to craft it. Rather than OCH, which made people pay equally, but in a more demanding tone, and made them pay directly as opposed to slowly and through the already set up CE system.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:22

#29

Thimol

-----

Oh doy. This is what happens when I don't eat for the whole day; I miss stuff.

Still I can't help but feel as if SK has been buried in a shallow grave already, with the grave growing ever deeper. With the way both OOO and the playerbase are, we're fast approaching a point where SK will be beyond salvation.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:24

#30

Tenkii

So you wanna talk about trends?

6/2/11 - T1 boss stratum, Snarbolax, is released
7/6/11 - T2 boss stratum, IMF, is released

8/2/11 - Blast Network released
9/14/11 - Lockdown released

10/5/11 - Lockboxes appear
10/19/11 - Shadow Lairs released

11/17/11 - Three rings acquired by SEGA
11/30/11 - Featured Auctions, Item preview, Personal Color change added.
12/12/11 - Winterfest, EU server added, Heart Pendants / Enamorocks released, Frostbite released.
12/14/11 - Frostbite layout changes released.
12/19/11 - Drone monsters added

1/4/12 - A bunch of monster balancing
1/18/12 - Some swords' swipe charges changed to burst attacks, Elevator pass appears

2/1/12 - Mission System Preview
2/14/12 - Valentine's day promo
2/22/12 - Mission System released
2/29/12 - OCH : first pay-only "DLC" released
3/7/12 - OCH items re-balanced/nerfed

3/8/12 - Volcanic Demo suit now has CTR boost.
3/15/12 - Monster balancing (Greavers/Lichens), UI update
3/22/12 - Huge armor/weapon rebalancing!. New Gremlin-themed stages/monsters are released.

3/30/12 - "behind-the-scenes content for a future event"
4/4/12 - Anniversary event (Caketastrophe) begins. UI additions for lifted objects, FSC exploits fixed.

4/11/12 - Eyes now animate/recolor. Prestige badges added.
4/18/12 - Height/Eye modifiers released. Mirror lockboxes added. Lockboxes now have more items. Prize wheel added to missions. Charge Attacks patched. Dark Thorn Blade's charge patched.
4/25/12 - Character Creation interface updated. UV Locking added. Pets added.

-----------

I bolded things that seemed to happen related to each other and left out a bunch of 2011 updates and cash promos, because cash promos don't necessarily require the focus of development.

Other than wide monster-balancing patches (some of which I omitted) and random weapon updates, many of the patches happen around same time, meaning that whatever they are working on tends to be related to each other until a major release happens.

So here are the trends I see:
- Mid 2011, they had a content frenzy, most likely in preparation or response to the Steam release of Spiral Knights. At that point, the only two bosses were Royal Jelly and Vanaduke. They created content for T1 (newer players), and then T2 ("existing players").
- August-September, they focused on building up PvP. There were a couple of things done about AFK exploiters in games.
- In October, lockboxes were released IN ANTICIPATION for having things like shadow keys come from them as rare items for end-game players to play shadow lairs.
- For the Winterfest event, they released new content for Lockdown, and quickly rebalanced the stage after release (2 days later)
- For most of February 2012, almost everything they released was related to the Mission System. The ready room, the new rescue camp, prestige. These provided a more 'guided' experience for newer players, giving them a lot of free gear and recipes to start off with. Operation Crimson Hammer was released as a 'mid-game' and first pay-only DLC for Steam players. This is still new content.
- Early April saw things for the anniversary event.
- Mid-late April saw things for character customization. Existing knights (the ones who likely have crowns to spend) are given the chance to 'retroactively' change their eyes/height. This all culminates in being able to create very individual/customizable knights when creating a new knight.

So?

3/22 and 4/18 saw significant weapon updates - the 4/18 one being the coveted charge attack patch. These all happened in the middle of other unrelated updates.

For the major 'moves' in SK's history (boss content creation, missions, etc), the patches come related to each other for at least a month. They also seem to focus on things for newer players before existing/higher-tier players: T1 boss added, T2 boss added (newer player content), then PVP/shadow lairs (arguably, 'endgame' content).

As far as I can see, right now (February - April 2012), they are in a phase where they are streamlining the new-player experience.
Weapon, monster balancing, and miscellaneous level additions (gremlin stages, candlestick keep) happen kind of sporatically, and I'm thankful they happen, but I expect more interesting things to be happening in May-June.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:27

#31

Akvar

Best idea yet

-Gets players more involved in working with each other rather than less involved in working with each other (EG. Guild halls over missions)

This is one of the coolest ideas I've seen yet. I would be cool to have a mission, preferably as an expansion, where it requires a full group before you can descend. It would be neat if it were something where there could be people from no more than two guilds so that teamwork is promoted within guilds. For example if you had three players from one guild and an extra player who normally solos the clockworks that belongs to no guild, this way all players would have access to the content. It would also be cool if in the levels there were four switches that had to be hit within 5 seconds of each other that were at different parts of the map, so that you have to have the full group work together to get past that point.

Great idea Fehzor, it would be cool to see more team oriented game play.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:39

#32

Thrillhaus

@OP

You're incorrectly measuring player base using a small stratified sample of your own personal acquaintances, who are inevitably destined to quit at one point or another anyway. For each dramatic "I'm quitting" thread by a "prominent" player, hundreds/thousands more probably registered within the day to take their place. Of course you do not notice their presence because you are only considering the population of your inner circle. Without actual server statistics, you don't have much of a quantitative basis to gauge the net flux of the game's player base.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:51

#33

Sypsy

@Serian I appreciate your

@Serian

I appreciate your analysis. It was un-biased and useful.

Here's to the future things coming in. I know they will be releasing new weapons for people to craft.
The last time we had weapons to craft, we got the IMF. (I exclude the OCH stuff because they weren't really things to heat and craft along a path.)
So I assume we'll be getting new content with those new weapons soon.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:33

#34

Gell

While I agree with the OP, I

While I agree with the OP, I think you should look at it from SEGAs viewpoint. Not OOO, SEGA.

OOO is now owned by SEGA. SEGA is not just any publisher, but in the past, known to be quite pushy and has straight lied to the public (being on both sides of the fence, I know both the side of the developer and the public statements SEGA has made). This is always driven by one thing: money. Not just the money an indie dev can make (sometimes quite well e.g. Minecraft), but directly seeing money flow in. Subtlety is not an option to an exec.

Execs and Why OCH was Directly Sold
How do you appease SEGA now? As OOO, how do you appease SEGA's desire to see more money flow in, immediately? You understand why OCH cost money, right? Lots of players have at least 4500 CE. Not everyone, obviously, but quite a few people, and definitely all of the game's big spenders surely have at least 4500CE. What is 4500CE? It's the equivalent of $6, if you go by the $10 price of a CE pack (7500CE). So why charge $6 for it? SEGA wanted immediate results. Selling content for money provides immediate revenue. If you sell it for CE or crowns in-game, what do you think would've happened when they released OCH? All the rich folks would just pay for it with CE. The revenue SEGA would see is $0. You could say "oh but they are making money, if you look at the revenue from the quarter before the OCH update and the next quarter." This is very indefinite (increased revenue could be due to a mention on Kotaku, or many other reasons). This is not how execs, not how investors see profit. If you have to wait 3 months to get a vague idea if your product made money, you will lose investors. Direct sales are easy to see. Selling OCH for CE doesn't immediately make everyone go buy more CE. Since so many have CE, they just use it from their reserves. This is money SEGA already logged, and it counts for previous earnings, not new earnings.

So What Can OOO Realistically Do?
This is the discussion that you should think about. I want what you want, but I know it can't be done, not with SEGA watching (and paying for OOO to stay in business now). Given that information, what would you propose? For OCH and future sold content, I'd at least make that a tradable item. It works in Steam, but make it somehow an item you activate, like a recipe, or mist tank. Sell it for real money, but let F2Pers play it too. This can only generate more money. Every account with OCH will have gotten it by paying for it, either with money or CE, but what SEGA sees is 100% of the sales, since they originated from real money sales. Works for the players and SEGA's investors.

Other
Other ideas? That is tougher. Retain older players? Sure, but some older players have really bad logic. Suddenly you're not in the upper 0.1% anymore so you quit? That's the player's fault. Of course a dev should alienate as few players as possible, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. This latest UV update is a good move. I don't know if announcing this beforehand would've avoided the same rage, but that's why you ask/tell someone you'll be swinging by their house for a visit. You don't just surprise them and not give them a chance to tidy up the house. Maybe older players just need a little more courtesy from OOO.

Guild hall update would be nice, and btw Eurydice, even if someone is working on that RIGHT NOW, it doesn't have to be a super update. It can be rolled out in part, just like, oh I dunno, this entire game. SK has been a piece here, a piece there, as if this is still an open beta. Guild halls don't need 500 things right now, so they can also be released in parts. Even just the stuff from preview event works. If that code was a mess or other technical reasons are holding it back, it should be prioritized for release. Add even fancier stuff later.

"-Focuses on players satisfaction more than money"
Can't do that. Investors will cry. Seriously, can't do that. SEGA can't allow that. Money is always the #1 goal for a publisher. The tough part is figuring out how to satisfy players and also make money, but money is always the most important. Because you, the player, don't have millions of dollars on the line, and investors putting money into your company wondering why SK hasn't made the projected amount of money it was supposed to last quarter.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:26

#35

Fehzor

@Thrillhaus "My inner circle"

@Thrillhaus

"My inner circle" does not and never has included cocosnake, or most of the other people I see or hear about leaving. "My inner circle" usually does not leave, it is people outside of it. But- in every haven, I am able to find people that I know most of the time. I make friends with lots of people, and while you are correct in saying that to me it looks like people are leaving, I must disagree with your presumption that I'm not looking at most of the game. I look at a large number of the newer players that leave, and at all of the others that I joined with whom left, and I've talked to quite a few people. You are correct in saying that I don't have actual statistics of players, but I can look and see the number of players rejecting each update, and I can see that that is shrinking. I can still make inferences, and I know that most others that I talk to agree with them.

@Gelll

As I've said before, we don't actually know how much of a tie SEGA has over OOO. But, if what you say is true (that they control OOO quite a bit) and I wouldn't doubt it, then I'd imagine the solution would be to simultaneously develop the add on missions and the clockwork levels that are free- release them both at once or when they're done, and like you said, make it tradable as a usable item in game.

Yes, some older players have awful logic. Cocosnake leaving made very little sense to me. That being said, players leaving when OOO cut off their in game market with unbinding made perfect sense to me. All I'm asking is for OOO to eliminate the outrageous nonsense that makes the playerbase leave. If its going to make a bunch of people leave, don't do it.

On "satisfaction before money"-
The idea of appeasing investors over and over is kind of killing the game in the long run, which is far more important than "last quarter". Would you rather have one dollar now, or a thousand dollars in a week? I'm certain that the developers could show the investors other numbers as well, say, the amount of CE spent, or the amount of new players that joined and stayed. Surely the investors with the money on the line could understand the concept of making money in the long run... as long as the devs had a plan on how to make money once they've got a big enough playerbase.

On Operation Crimson Hammer-
Yes, I can understand their need for money on this one, and I don't blame them for selling it soley for money. But they messed up in two ways- first and foremost, they changed a piece of text in an outdated post subtly and essentially lied to everyone, and secondly, they cut off everyone not using steam from buying it off of P2Pers selling it.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:05

#36

Midnight-Violet

@Seiran "1/18/12 - Some

@Seiran

"1/18/12 - Some swords' swipe charges changed to burst attacks, Elevator pass appears"

The Elevator Pass appeared in late 2011, around the beginning of December or end of November....

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:53

#37

Rommil

@akvar

i have been toying with an interesting mission idea.

Basically, you'd have to queue up for the mission, in much the same way you do for lockdown. The mission would involve a T3 endgame player being joining up with random T1 players, in an effort to help chaperone them through some assortment of clockworks levels. (T3 and T1 particpants placed on a 1-to-1 ratio).

This would be a great chance for us end-gamers to jump in and doing something new and interesting with T1 players. A great chance for T1-ers to make veteran friends.

now, guilds serve much this purpose, as we all know. But very very new players rarely get invited to an upper echelon guild. This would be a great chance for unity, knightmare, jempire, echo of silence, whoever, to have more interactions with new players. aside from begging and rand requests.

Also, the prestige mission where you give away gear...how about it warps you to some1 in basecamp, and has you give them an item (3-4*). this would be pretty awesome too, and could launch into the buddy run mission described above.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:56

#38

Strudul

@rommil

But they will get taught all sorts of bad habits >_<

Search

So I've been noticing a trend here.....