Perfect method for fixing lock down
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:37
Before you read: some of the posters below didn't like how the balance is in the examples of the post. By no means, do these values need to be the same if they are implemented. Same goes with some later posts I've made.
Ever noticed that the best sets of armor for Lock Down are the ones that buff a weapon toward ALL enemies, and that buffs such as vs. undead or jelly are worthless for said fights? Well, what if such buffs worked in LD? What I mean by this is if someone is wearing a type of gear, then it would be weak to that kind of buff. Let me give an example.
P1 is wearing Skolver.
P2 is wearing Dragon(Damage Bonus vs Beast: Medium per piece) OR is wielding a Hunting blade.
P2 hits P1, and more damage is given then without the buff.
Now to keep this buff worth it, rather than just being a situational buff with just the same power, what if that said buff is doubled when the target is wear both pieces? If, altogether, the buff = maximum, and if the target is wearing 2 pieces of wolver gear, what if then the outcome of the damage would = maximum x2? Another thing that this would help is it would help those using multiple different weapons, and still having a buff(even thought it would be only certain targets) on all of those weapons.
Of course, not all armors would belong a family. (This would make Cobalt a decent LD equip.) And likewise, not all families would have equips. (Like the gremlin family, for example.) If feel that adding this would balance LD a bit, and would still keep PvE exactly the way it is.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:29
#2
Like I said, not all pieces
Like I said, not all pieces of gear would belong into any set. Also, a 4+ bonus in a normal buff won't care about what the foe is wearing, but a in a monster family buff, it will. As you said, User 2 will do more damage, and he will act as he had a +4 bonus when the foe had only one piece of beast gear. (Take note, this could be Chroma, Wolver, or Dragon, and any others that would go in this group.) If User 1 has 2 of the listed gear and is by someone with this buff, it will deal 8+ instead of 4+.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:30
#3
Solution:
Play T1.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 19:12
#4
Over maximum
Going over +6 is impossible because it is max.
The only way this would be fair is if all armors are affiliated with a monster family. Also, no to having the family buff mean double damage; it would make the current Skolver whining look like nothing compared to all the Dragon Scale whining to be.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 19:37
#5
Going over the max wouldn't
Going over the max wouldn't need to be shown in the stats. And no, playing T1 is sadly ruined, because of all of the hammers. (ok, not really, but it's a bummer seeing so many die to them.) I just that this would stop alot of the whining without killing PvE. And yes, there would be other groups.
Here is my definition of gear's classes:
Undead: All Skelly gear, Chaos, Deadshot, Deadshot, Almirian Crusader?
Jelly: All equips with the name Jelly or Quick Silver ;) oh, and the Ice Queen
Construct: All Bomber gear, All Breaker gear, All Plate gear
Beast: All Wolver gear and their upgrades, All Chroma gear, All Drake and their upgrades
Fiend: All Valkyrie gear and their upgrades, All Silver
Gremlin: None (So rare that it doesn't matter, we don't even have a proper enhancement equip for them.)
Neutral: All Cobalt gear and their upgrades, All elemental and their upgrades, etc.
Of course, I'm missing some, or I may have some in a bad place, but I hope this shows what I mean.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:51
#6
Something about you makes me
Something about you makes me want to rip your spine out and force feed it you. Instead of whining about Skolvers like every other damn person, play the game, learn a strategy that works well for you, AND [SCRAPPING] USE IT. Don't expect OOO to fix all of you're problems.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 23:02
#7
-_-
I think Asukalan evolved.
-_-
I think Asukalan evolved.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 01:22
#8
Really, people, stop stealing
Really, people, stop stealing my lines. I come to forum and i have nothing to do :S
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 01:22
#9
Lol
I was gonna post something similar Hex.
Lug, your thoughts are valued and all, but you really need to chill on the posting.
You're pretty much Asukalan+constructive thought. You see an idea you don't like, you flame it, with constructive points.
I don't mean it offensively, but really, you should stop with the side comments of irk'd-ness.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 07:09
#10
Meh...
My take:
Lets use... WHB...
So... +3... or +12% damage
each piece of wolver for example, is Half a set, right? So, if he was wearing Merc helm and Skolver coat, instead it would be +1.5 levels, or +6% damage
If you were attacking while wearing Arcane Salamander armor, that's also a +2 levels to Beast, and slime. And while wielding that WHB, the total would be:
+5 levels, or +20% damage/2 because only one piece of skolver = +10% damage
+2 levels, or +6% damage/2 because only one piece of Merc = +3% damage
For a total of +13% damage
____
Meh... Yeah... Not TOO effective, but considering that most wear wolver armor... -.-
Also, Setenza would be useful to outgun The only gremlin armor, the Mask. Seerusly.
Fallen would be smashed by the nonexistant Angel sets, and Fallen VS fallen would be Hilarious...
but Meh.
______
Also, to rage at you OBVIOUS SKOLVERS... The only way your "Stratagy" works, is if EVERY swordy is wearing the SAME armor, and SAME weapons... and Someone has a better UV... Then you can use strategy effectively, other that, there is no way.
And before you try to tell me to Shut it or w/e let me tell you some thing. STFU until YOU beat ME using the SAME crap I do.
You can't. Not unless you're SKILLED. Duuur.
New Italics Pending.
~Tsu
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 07:40
#11
I like the idea, but what if
I like the idea, but what if the family that you were a part of was randomized and changed for each LD match? Then it would be more equalized if there is a larger number of players with the same (or similar) gear.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:06
#12
Why do people always flame my
Why do people always flame my ideas to the bitter death?
I suggested this so that we would see some more verity in LD, rather then just Skolver clones, and the few other sets that buff everything or nothing. It makes sets that get monster buffs a little more balanced, and also automatically raises up Cobalt and other gear that would be neutral due to not holding any weakness at all.
If you really don't like my ideas that much, just go ahead, say it, and you won't see me in suggestions any more. I was just using the Skolver argument just because I thought it would be something many would agree with me on, at least those who don't use Skolver.
EDIT: Also, I think this would encourage the following to happen: Dragons would start to show, then WHBs would appear more, then Norm resist gear would start to appear, and then something else would start to appear that hasn't been showing up for a while, and on and on.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:07
#13
Oh Auto...
Trust me, its that you are suggesting things that go against the grain... and some don't like those changes...
I'm with you on this topic :D
New Italics Pending.
~Tsu
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:32
#14
"EDIT: Also, I think this
"EDIT: Also, I think this would encourage the following to happen: Dragons would start to show, then WHBs would appear more, then Norm resist gear would start to appear, and then something else would start to appear that hasn't been showing up for a while, and on and on."
Nope.
When current "most common and useful" LD set will get nerfed after a while a new "most common and useful" LD set will appear and instead of previous one, most of players will use the new one. Then on forum the topics will start that everyone are clones of the new "most common and useful" LD set and something has to be done. If it will get changed after while the next "most common and useful" LD set will appear and majority of players will start using it and again on forum topics will appear.........
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:44
#15
I don't hate your idea at
I don't hate your idea at all, in fact, your last edit even reminded me of a similar thread I made myself, when I was a forum noob.
But your idea makes you look like you just want free buffs against skolver clones, sorry, don't take it personally, it just feels like you don't even realise the amount of rebalancing and raging Three Rings would have to go through, and that it'd be unfair for most players who face the P2P with maximum x2 gear.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:58
#16
No, I think he's on to something.
I think Autofire is on to something. Let me modify it a tad bit:
*Constructs: Cobalt, Plate, Demo, and 'Breaks
*Gremlin: Gunslinger, Seerus Masks
*Slime: Jelly, Quicksilver
*Beast: Wolver, Chroma, Drake
*Fiend: Angelic, Magic
*Undead: Skelly
These classifications would exist for all defensive gear, including shields. A piece of gear in a certain family would be neutral to everything else and slightly weak to a weapon of its family, perhaps on the order of 4% or so. Having a full familial set (e.g., Drake Scale Helm, Mail, and Shield) would make one weak against a family of weapons by up to 12%, at most. It's not much, but should be enough to make a noticeable difference.
Opinions?
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 10:18
#17
its actually not a bad idea
it could use some refining, like thinslayer posted, and likely some more, but it's not a bad idea at all. I like it, and wouldn't mind seeing some further development, or balancing. I really don't have any idea how, but still, the idea is there.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 11:33
#18
@Thinslayer
Thanks for your (positive) view on it. What I've just said hasn't had much balance, and I didn't think of as something that might have a little PvE effect. I should'a said this in the OP, that it's only a rough draft of the idea, and needs balance.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 13:24
#19
Thin's adaptation sounds
Thin's adaptation sounds great, as well as the whole idea in the first place. Being a demoman, I always like to see the Skolvers squirm. I've never entered T3 Lockdown, but T2 is bad enough with the Dusker/Toothpick clone wars (my Lightning Cap/Sealed Sword Guardian loadout stands out). I always wanted to make a set of Wyvern Scale, since it's Elemental and Piercing resistant... it would really make the Duskers squirm.
If we took Thinslayer's adaptation, added a Gremlin-buster line (Emberlight-themed perhaps?) to deal with the gunners, and maybe another undead-themed set (kat- or howlitzer-based) to give those Silvermailers an extra target... Lockdown would be a wonderful breath of fresh air. Dragon Scalers would go for the Skolvers, Vog Cubs, and Snarbies that still are around, as well as each other, and to avoid this, people would switch to, say, Mercurial, where they're instead vulnerable to Chromalisks- but watch out for the Arcane Salamanders that are getting them both! Even Mad Bombers would be breaking out the Dragon Scale, but beware, a new 5* deconstructor suddenly gets a lot more dangerous- however, Bombers will be safer than others. As for T1, the Thwack Hammer will be flying around hitting those uppity Breakers.
DOWN WITH THE CLONE WARS!
After several threads for similar if not the same reasons, I have come to a conclusion; people like to whine.
I may be misinterpreting this thread but it seems to suggest family buffs be doubled compared to the generic damage for a single weapon given by weapon specific sets (Wolver, Gunslinger, Demo).
This may also be a misinterpretation of the thread, but I would suggest having the family buff turn to a damage buff against the other players as though the user with the family damage buffing armor gains more damage over users while using a weapon which has more effect:
User 1 is wearing Skolver, as seen in your example. User 2 is wearing Dragon Scale, also in your example. User 2 has a +4 beast family damage buff from the Dragon Scale set. Skolver is based on a beast. User 2 does more damage to User 1 because they are considered part of the beast family.
This logic only applies to sets based on existing enemies, unless all existing sets become affiliated with an enemy family.