I wanted to go more into guns now that the update buffed them up, but one question that bothers me is this: Is it worth the time to learn to shoot a gun until right before the reload? A few people seem to think so, and the rest don't really seem to know. So for all you gunslingers out there, IS it better to shoot w/out reloading? Or is it better to get that last shot? Or does it really not matter whatsoever?
Thanks in advance,
Bob
shot pause / shoot shoot pause repeat gets you more shots per minute that was shown by many posters already, including yours truly (but with max asi, unloading and pausing are about equal). also avoiding reload helps with your mobility. it looks like there is no reason to not avoid reload. however with alchemers i find it easier to land more internal ricochets by unloading all shots (you don't have to re-aim after each shot).
Search the forums for "Ask a Master Gunslinger Anything". There are several versions of this thread, some of which are pretty old. But I remember that they go into detailed discussion of this tactic.
With certain guns, timing is a factor where skipping reload works very well.
Pulsars will often interrupt turret attacks, but if you shoot all 3 shots, they'll sometimes get an attack in before the next hit connects. Overall, 2-shot/pause helps to keep the pressure up with the Pulsar series.
The Magnus series is known for it's ability to knockdown targets, provided it does enough damage for the depth and party size. It only has 2 shots, but skipping reload often helps with keeping a knockdown'd enemy juggled.
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Also, Seiran has it reversed (DPS is higher by skipping reload), but fully unloading a clip does have its uses and skipping is not obligatory.
Pulsars and Catalyzer's benefit from 2 shotting a lot more than 3 shotting. Catalyzer benefits slightly more from 3 shotting than pulsar does due to the fact that catalyzer's regular shot has no knockback (so the first 2 shots don't push them out of the range).
I rarely ever shoot my entire clip in my Storm Driver. It's safer and more DPS to skip the animation, since you can't shield while reloading.
I sometimes do if I feel like my 2nd shot will kill the enemy, but I don't trust my prediction skills...
I have little experience with magnus family so I can't really talk much from that.
As for antigua's, I don't really know whether it's better to unload the 6 shots, or 5 and wait.
Autogun (lolwut), usually used for charge, not the regular shots.
Thanks so much for all the help everyone. I'm still open to hear more people talk about it, but it seems that it IS worth the time to learn to shoot w/out reloading.
Shoot/pause/shoot is a good habit to get into. The only time I don't is when I'm solo, and my Callahan two-shots Devilities (Even then, that is risky due to the nature of Devilites).
It's better to have sustained fire over bursts IMO. This is important for the Pulsar lines especially. If you leave gaps between volleys, enemies have time to walk towards you. If they are close enough, they will get past the expanded shots, which is when the Pulsar will fail horribly. Keeping a constant stream of shots going will keep enemies away, and you wont need to worry about them getting into melee range.
While you do reload animation, it means you (1) walk slower, same walking speed as you shoot bullets (2) can't put up shield.
ASI helps the speed on shoot-pause. But if you can 2nd last shoot -> switch + shield -> 2nd last shoot, you may abandon ASI.
This switch (using weapon shortcut seems easier than next/prev weapon) + shield method would make any gun some sort of mini gun disregarding the ASI, you could beat the speed of someone with good ASI using shoot-pause method. Though, I admit it's hard for me to move (still need practice) while using switch + shield to prevent reload animation.
+1 poopsie. I saw someone did it, it was crazy. By the way, how do you do this anyway? When i do it i keep getting stuck on one weapon
not really answering your question but uh...
watch Nalrayi video on beating ice jelly queen/Silent Legion, he kinda did it on half way (using both weapon instead of just one weapon) http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/52311
not sure how he pushed all the buttons though but I think he's using mouse to aim, wasd to move, weapon 1 and 2 shortcut, and attack + shield button
he was alternating between 2 weapons. and that's easy to do: just fire, next weap, fire, prev weap, fire, repeat. if he's just using 2 weapons, just next weapon. u don't need to shield in between. i was wondering how to do this trick with one single weapon though.. (i have seen someone do it with just one weapon)
Actually he does shield all the time, and shield helps to switch a lot faster. It's just.... sometimes it's fast enough that you didn't see him shielding.
And if you look up his loadout, he have 4 weapons all the time too. I bet Nalrayi could do the same thing with 1 weapon. The difference is just punching one more button. fire -> during shielding, tap weapon 1 then 2 -> fire, repeat. Meh, if I have time and the skill, I could show you a bit on my non-pro moves.
When switching off your current weapon, you can "buffer" your weapon-switch at any point during your shot, making it so you just have to worry about switching back to your original one.
Okay, so I watched nalrayi's video and was impressed by the speed.
I did it myself, and it's very easy to get the same speed with two alchemers, a higher ASI makes it go faster since you can minimize the animiation it takes to bring the weapon up.
You don't need to shield cancel the animation before changing weapons, since changing the weapon seems to cancel the animation already. Just make sure you don't misclick and force a reload.
If you want to see this, I can show it to you without wearing a shield in the training hall.
I tried shield cancelling, and my speed was lower with it, and there was a ton of unnecessary animations.
I saw the video and I was really impressed. That was crazy.
I think there was data to come to the conclusion you can get more shots off if you just spam until you have to reload - you'll have higher potential DPS if you just keep shooting.
BUT
The biggest reason to shoot-pause is for mobility. Reloading used to make you stand still, which was a very dangerous thing. While it's slightly safer to reload now (you can walk while reloading), the original reason still stands, especially when you've done the good-gunner thing and aggro'd many monsters to chase after you.