"We are the ones improving the game and also we are ones asking for more."

Actually the ones improving the game are the devs and/or the people is Suggestions/GD developing/providing feedback on ideas.

But you ARE the people asking for more.

" I don't understand why people would hate on these people so much."

Try having to listen to 'ZOMG OOO will neva give us playas wat we whant dey jest gonna keep feeding us fecal matter' every time there's an update, bugfix or gameplay update.

Instead of raging, you should be helping to think of new ideas and posting them in the suggestions forum to be discussed and developed so OOO has something to ADD to the game. Ideas don't grow themselves.

"I am a little disgusted at how much hate there is for people who complain about things they don't like. Honesty supporting 000 to the death and saying the game is perfect when its far far far far far from perfect isn't getting the game anywhere."

When people whine about things and do nothing more than say 'NOT WHAT I WANTED WAH', it irritates me. When they say that OOO is conspiring to do something simply because something has/not happened yet, it irritates me.

However, I never said SK was a perfect game, because if it was, I probably would never have come to the forums.

Nothing is perfect. Maths does not count, because maths is accurate and precise, not perfect. SK even less so because it's barely a year old, and still in development somewhat.

"That is bullcrap excuse if you got a small team then start hiring people."

As a company, don't you think OOO would have thought of that? I doubt there's anyone in the WOLRD who has a large workload that DOESN'T think 'Gee, maybe I should get more people'. There may be reasons for that, there may be not. I won't know, I not being a part of OOO or even employed for that matter.

TL;DR: I get mad at whiners because they whine about things for little/no reason or don't do anything about it themselves, content to moan and groan on the spot instead of helping with the problem.

Also, apologies if I'm sounding like an uptight prick. I'm had a really bad day today thinking about how screwed I am (for reasons you don't need to know), and am in no frame of mind to be able to come up with adequate euphemisms.

Sorry.

EDIT: And I don't mean whiners generally. I mean whiners as in the whiners I complain about, not...gah, whatever. Not all whiners, so don't take it personally.

I'm not hating at the moment, just too irked at my screwed-ness to think of euphemising my posts.

In any case, OOO definitely read suggestions. All of them, I can't say. But they definitely read them. That's how Howlitzers came into existence; I saw the thread ages ago, and it literally CREATED the Howlitzer.

And it's no so much the whining as the 'oh look it's this again' factor of such posts. Ones like people saying OOO is out to get players because something went wrong with the recent patch or something.

And I get what you're getting at.

"Truly not even caring what they have written disagreement is fine but dont hate someone because they wrote something you don't necessarily agree with."

The only times I get annoyed at people for that is when they're told 'no' however, but they refuse to back down when they've been told, explained and even yelled at why it's not right (ref-certain suggestion threads), or they say something that makes no logical/moral sense whatsoever, like that guy on the news last year who tried to justify his massacre of students execution style by saying that they were guilty of actively allowing multi-cultural activities, to put it extremely. (true story)

Otherwise I keep the 'My opinion=/=Your opinion therefore I no rage at U=U no rage at me' policy.

Unless my brain is really fried and/or I miss something entirely and look like an idiot in the process.

EDIT: Wrong '=' symbol.

My problem isn't for the "complainers"... my problem is the people who are CONSTANTLY complaining and whining and then they don't want to listen to any other idea. The people who whine about every update, even if the little ones are needed and do make a difference in the community. Yes, I complained about the pocket pets being in game, because that is RIDICULOUS. But as you saw not everyone felt the same way as I did.

We all have our own agenda and what we are looking for and wanting in the game. The devs and three rings are doing the best they can in getting these things to us. There are a few things I do believe they need to get out soon (GUILD UPDATES PLEASE) that could really benefit the community more than some people would realize.

All people do when they whine a lot is not get heard. It's like the boy who cried wolf, if you're constantly crying wolf... then suddenly when you REALLY mean it... no one is going to listen.

I usually side with people complaining because they are in a way right- OOO can often do better, and they don't.

However, if people are going to complain about things when the patch is a bug fix, or when the devs are actually trying to balance things etc, then I feel like they shouldn't just go and "ZOMFG WHY NO CONTENT???" all over the place... chances are, the devs are working on something for us that just isn't ready, like the new lockdown maps that are coming out.

As long as the devs are making good patches that influence the game in good ways, I'm fairly happy with their work. However, that doesn't mean that I can't write about how I think the game should change (in my opinion).

i wak you with a baseball bat :)

Yeah, the tone of the "OOO defenders" can be just as bad or worse than the "complainers".

There's that one thread where a player wanted more appreciation from OOO which quickly devolved into who's the best based on who's been around the longest or who's given OOO the most money....all the while stomping on the player calling her a whinner. Not quite the friendly cooperative SK community I thought this place used to be. I was going to say something, but thought.....why bother wasting my time and effort just for more grief.

I doubt today's announcement would have address as many of the concerns the "complainers" had if they had not complained. Today's announcement seems to be a direct response to the complaints in the last few weeks.

Ya know, its not a bad thing to say "Yes, we did get ideas from the suggestions, we did talk about them, and X sugested something nice."

For instance-

"This project will start with guilds having the ability to expand their halls, increase member limits, and furnish their guild halls."
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/41827

And of course, there is always Severage's beast- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/40011
I'm fairly certain that Severage documented explicitly some of the things you guys are implementing.

The "complainers" obviously don't make you go too much faster, because given that you are attempting to balance the game with such a limited number of people, you're going to have to stay busy... unless you're raiding that one company down the street as pirates.

hahaha, PML, hahaha

Try splitting the OP into small paragraphs because nobody is going to read that huge block of text unless they're bored.

And yes, complaining about things does help to an extent but most people on the forums complain too much and that's why people are irritated.

@Tersakaff
Mew-kat is a known troll in the forums so don't pay too much attention to his posts.

I read the first few posts, then wanted to post my own.

I do agree with much of what has been said. If we didn't have complainers, then OOO couldn't know how the player base likes the updates. It is just how it is done. When you complain using harsh, hateful, words, you know you are using the wrong approach. It is hard to get anyone to like your argument(and sometimes, you) when you are spouting hateful insults.

If you do it constructively, on the other hand, readers are might want to support you, where as they might just be flaming when you do it rudely. It is also hard to be reading something that is so harsh. A good comparison between the two is:

"You rotten OOO! You killed all the fun, because now zombies are too easy! Why do you have to hate us so much that you do this!" versus "The zombie nerf has made FSC too easy. It isn't very fun with the game being this easy."

Of course, it doesn't help when you reply with a big, fat "NO" or a very, very insulting "Does the baby want his bottle?", as such replies will get the OP to hate you right back. It is always better to fight what you think is illogical with logic. If he isn't listening to your logic, (he isn't countering your logic with more of his) then you can ignore him and do something else. This is really what an argument is: countering logic with logic. It is hard to persuade someone when you are shouting names at them.

Now, at the OP: some of this does sort of apply to you. You shouldn't have been using words like what you used. I almost wanted to get angry at you and saying this is all silly, but I decided to do what I recommend. It really makes me not want to side with anyone who uses words such as bull#$%& at OOO. What if they like being a small company because they get to work together more. I really don't know why they just don't hire more, but it is their reason. Also, the staff behind SK are people. Imagine walking up to them and saying what you just said. Imagine it in their shoes. I complain sometimes, but how can they keep working when all they get are angry people? I would feel impelled to quite, even, after all that the fan base has said.

"I guess we have a different view on giving feedback"
"...making up silly posts complaining about content or every single update well that’s just plain disrespectful."

Well Eurydice already said in post #15 that she views no "complaint" as anything other than feedback unless it breaks the forum guidelines. So if one has no valid counter-points to said complaints, why say anything? Especially why ridicule and disrespect the poster?

"...we have something called a suggestion area...survey questions....feedback threads in testing area..."

Why not let Eurydice and the OOO staff decide if things are in the wrong place, how many threads there should be on a topic, and what breaks forum guidelines and what doesn't? It is their job after all, and well....frankly not yours, unless you're secretly employed by them. If you disagree with their decisions, you can make a suggestion about it in the suggestion area.

Just because people aren't rimming at least one of the Three Rings in all of their posts doesn't mean they're complainers.

"You think the United States would ever had become what it was without telling the British off" wow, you're an idiot.

"Well Eurydice already said in post #15 that she views no "complaint" as anything other than feedback unless it breaks the forum guidelines. So if one has no valid counter-points to said complaints, why say anything? Especially why ridicule and disrespect the poster?"

^

So, who is the judge of a valid counter-points? If you wish to complain, and post silly ideas (in my view) that does give me the right to post on the thread. I mean lets be honest if you wish to share your view-point you might as well be ready to support it right. Why ridicule and disrespect three rings why not actually formulate and suggest your ideas in a manor which is not disrespectful, and does not make you look like your crying over spilled milk.

"Why not let Eurydice and the OOO staff decide if things are in the wrong place, how many threads there should be on a topic, and what breaks forum guidelines and what doesn't? It is their job after all, and well....frankly not yours, unless you're secretly employed by them. If you disagree with their decisions, you can make a suggestion about it in the suggestion area."

I let them decide it for sure, and I use the support staff, to kindly move topics etc. Eurydice is the only forum moderator (Community Manager) for this game who we see in plain sight, and its our job as players to tell her about any rule breaking we might see on the forums since sadly she not superhero though if she was it be pretty epic. My point is simple, in my personal view if you want to get three rings to add change in this game if you do it the right way it tends to work out better. How do I know this you might ask?? In beta with our smaller community we would make constructive posts, and point out the problems, after the Devs read about them they would fix them, and they were and still are pretty good at that.

@Holla:

I been playing Sk for a bit of time, and I know players who have been playing actively for longer than I have some at 2+ years, and I can easily speak for all of us. Yes, we are happy with the direction this game is going in, but that does not mean we are kneeling for three rings I wish they added a few more updates, and allow us be able to have a monster wave battle (100+ waves *No healing only heart drops from monsters, but heart system is not shared) <-- as an example. If you do believe Three Rings does not give us enough content, but then actually look through the amount of gameplay they did provide for us with all the new updates since this game went live, well you have over 8+ new maps, 3 new bosses, and 3 revamped bosses lets not forget a new style of gameplay with missions, mini-games, and a lot more the list is pretty long. So, the reason I might support three rings is since they gave me a great game to play. *side-note: Most posters/players who share my view, stopped posting on the forums since they are just tired of idiotic posts*.

@Tan --- Dude you are so right, but I think Blackhat might have something to do with this one I see so many tears filling his cup lol.

Of course they can will things into the SK world...they program the code.

Holla, complaining about something doesn't achieve anything unless you have a better way of going about what you're upset about. All it does is alienate others. If someone comes to your house to stay over and complains the whole time about the crap food, how uncomfortable the bed is and what a piece of crap your house is do you think you will get a new bed, better food and remodel your house or never invite that person back?
When the Colonists rebelled from the British they actually did something about it...not sit around in the bars and complain the whole time. Come up with a better system and suggest it on the forums or take some action, but don't try and tell me that simply complaining about something you don't like is anything but childish.

oh look Sylvanius is insulting people...what a surprise!

Oh look, another person getting flustered because someone called someone else out on being stupid. What a surprise, and this time, it's not even the same person that I insulted that starts whining at me.