There hasn't been an increase in personal insults. Anyone who thinks there is and is somehow relating it to the CE market is just feeling a placebo effect. The fourms have changed the least of any parts of the game.
Etiquette on the Forums (Updated for 8-14)
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 10:58
#52
There hasn't been an increase
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 11:00
#53
Thread's over. Personal insults in a thread asking about the upswing in personal insults.
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 11:19
#54
SUNSHAAAAAAAAARDS
PERSONAL INSULTS SUCK AND SHOULD GO (the following has been censored due to inappropriate content).
Sadly, this happens in any MMO. But that is no excuse for anyone to be spreading it around. If a suggestion is honestly that stupid, you can tell them what's wrong with it, but don't tell them "YOU SUCK YOU WASTE OF SPACE GO GET A LIFE NOOB".
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 18:57
#55
BUUT MOOOOM. HE CALLED ME UGLY!
I'll call it...
Impulsive ego defense snap back. Or something silly like that.
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:14
#56
"There hasn't been an increase in personal insults. Anyone who thinks there is and is somehow relating it to the CE market is just feeling a placebo effect. The fourms have changed the least of any parts of the game."
Of course, the time I made this thread there were more. However, I can name several cases in the last week of insults, just over the forums.
Edit: And CE has nothing to do with this. Why bring that up?
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:19
#57
People join sk each week.
People join sk each week. Thus producing a wider variety of personalities.
Maybe they're just not nice people, who believe that because they are hiding behind an innocent knight avatar, that their insults would have no real effect.
Or it's a new fad.
It could be the CE.
Or a personal incident caused them to be touchy.
The world may never know.
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:48
#58
"Human nature, and teenagers.
"Human nature, and teenagers. It's human nature to complain, then teenagers get upset much more quickly than more mature people, leading to personal insults."
So, pin the blame on a certain age group and assume that everyone who disagrees with you is of said age and you can claim that you are superior in both duration of life and level of thinking.
Sounds like a plan wait why am I replying to a necro post
Tue, 07/17/2012 - 03:28
#59
...
this will be clear enough:
On the internet, you're a tiger, you can say anything you want, even pretend to be a girl, scamming rich players or insult anyone you like
But those who look like 'tigers' on the internet are garfield cats (mayb uglier) in real like, they have no possession, power or respect, just to make themselves feel superior they insult others in cyberspace. Actually I know a few....
so just ignore them.
Tue, 07/17/2012 - 06:47
#60
...
"But those who look like 'tigers' on the internet are garfield cats (mayb uglier)"
I like Garfield, he is not ugly D:
Tue, 07/17/2012 - 07:10
#61
""But those who look like 'tigers' on the internet are garfield cats (mayb uglier)"
I like Garfield, he is not ugly D:"
Same here. D:
Cats are cute.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 14:10
#62
I'll just bump this since I probably shouldn't make a new thread, but we need to relearn proper etiquette in these forums. A person will share their opinion, and unless it directly goes against your's, let them have it. If you disagree, don't say things at them, but rather, to them. The difference is politeness. Those who like the new shards and/or promo shouldn't have to deal with a barrage of insults and scoldings. They're entitled to their opinion (as Hollafamer stated in a different thread). If you disagree with the bomb change, don't make it your job for everyone else to think the same way, same with visa versa.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 14:16
#63
Failure
I tend to think that people fall on insults when they aren't able to come up with a sufficient argument or point of their own. It is actually counterproductive and harmful to your case to attack someone directly instead of attacking their arguments like you should.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 14:18
#64
This 'insult increase' is a
This 'insult increase' is a placebo effect. I'm disagreeing with poken right now, am I delivering personal insults? Nope. The only 'name' I've called anyone today is hipster, and some people take pride in their hipness, so if you call it an insult you are ironicaly insulting hipsters.
Looks to me like you're just saying that 'everyone who voices their opinion agianst me is a troll'! No. There are smart people on these threads, that feel the need to speak freely. I don't care if having someone disagree with you hurts your feelings. you won't get 100% suppourt 100% of the time. Deal with it.
" If a suggestion is honestly that stupid, you can tell them what's wrong with it, but don't tell them "YOU SUCK YOU WASTE OF SPACE GO GET A LIFE NOOB"."
Exactaly. Problem is... noone really does that. I don't belive in trolls, I just think there are people who think they are trolls, but aren't, and people who think everyoen else is a troll, when noone is. Plus there are nonbelivers like myself.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 14:40
#65
I never said that disagreement is insulting. However, people do insult each other in these recent threads directly and indirectly. Also, insulting is not necessarily name calling. It can be several other things, such as mockery and hateful sarcasm. This, in no way, is saying that those who disagree with me is a troll. I know that people who argue for the shard bombs are smart, living, breathing people. However, there is a difference between "speaking freely" and abusing your right to speak. If someone wants to make a thread for their love of OOO, let them. It shouldn't matter to those who are arguing for the bomb to be changed back. And nowhere have I said that my feelings have been hurt. I merely am sick and tired of seeing people fighting against each other on the forums. Again, never did I say that I want 100% support all of the time. I understand people have different views, and that is a good thing. Differing views help see the flaws in things, along with ways for improvement. In regards to trolls... what does that have to do with this? I agree that people try to be trolls, but that is not what I'm talking about.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 14:31
#66
Sensationalism
Sensationalism is the problem. I've said this before in a different thread but it is appropriate here. If we recognize that violence and anger is more marketable in the media and advertising, it becomes more clear to see its effect on our regular behavior. Also, this is an online forum... so it is media. Basically if we just all said happy things, it would be too "cheesy" (I've been accused of being cheesy so many times... I'm living proof). Basically, dangerous, violent, aggressive, mean-spirited, insulting things are more "entertaining" to most people at this point. That is why there are so many trolls. It's because "we" are more likely to be entertained by them... That is just a problem with culture as a whole. It is a dangerous problem IMO, but one that seems to go unnoticed, or at least a problem that people are unwilling to fix or change.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 14:44
#67
the 4 step system
step 1; create a thread building up hatered against completly undefined 'insulters'
step 2; define everyone who disagrees with you as an 'insulter'
step 3; transfer people from the first thread to back you up in arguments
step 4; profit!
"However, people do insult each other in these recent threads directly and indirectly. Also, insulting is not necessarily name calling. It can be several other things, such as mockery and hateful sarcasm."
Tricky, how you get to be the lone person who defines what is and isn't insulting. Working the plebians, eh brutus? 'Oh no orangeo, analogys are now INSULTS!!! You're now an INSULTER, attack my armies, attack!!!'
"I merely am sick and tired of seeing people fighting against each other on the forums."
No you aren't. Why do you keep using them? the only way to remove these 'insults' you claim exist, is to have a completely playerless fourm.
"In regards to trolls... what does that have to do with this? I agree that people try to be trolls, but that is not what I'm talking about."
So trolling is not insulting? Here, i'll put my last post in your language;
I don't belive in insulters, I just think there are people who think they are insulters, but aren't, and people who think everyoen else is an insulter, when noone is. Plus there are nonbelivers like myself.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 14:51
#68
Well to understand this
Well to understand this arguement, I decided to do some math configatives, This is what happened:
(1−k)cos(ax−bx)−(1+k)cos(ax+bx)=−2
I decided to simplify it, here is what happened:
War against F2P and P2P is to much for some.
so yea..
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 14:56
#69
I was a paying player, and
I was a paying player, and yet I'm often scholded for calling OOO cheap. These threads aren't P2P vs F2P.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:00
#70
About the 4 Steps:
This thread was made back from Soarel's arrival on the forums. The rudeness he had received was what motivated me to make this thread.
"Tricky, how you get to be the lone person who defines what is and isn't insulting."
I never said I was the only one who can decide this. Insulting, in a simple definition, is "Speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse". I use my own logic to figure if someone is being condescending to someone else in a rude way. Usually it's pretty obvious, and others may or may not agree. Let's take the post from the other thread as an example. I write about how more than 1 bomb can make a mess of zombies. You joke saying that FSC is so hard anyways, regarding my comment. Is that condescending? In my opinion, and again, others may not agree, it is a form of mockery. It's taking my own words and twisting them to make me sound stupid.
"No you aren't. Why do you keep using them? the only way to remove these 'insults' you claim exist, is to have a completely playerless fourm."
Truthfully, I wouldn't be so appalled if there weren't many insults. However, I see more than just a few. Besides, people are able to behave. It's not like people have to pick on others in order to write in a forum. However, how am I using them? If by them, you mean the people insulting, I'm not doing anything to them.
"So trolling is not insulting? Here, i'll put my last post in your language;
I don't belive in insulters, I just think there are people who think they are insulters, but aren't, and people who think everyoen else is an insulter, when noone is. Plus there are nonbelivers like myself."
Again, that right there is condescending. To say "Here, i'll put my last post in your language" is unnecessary. It's now a personal poke at me. Now, "trolls" can insult people. However, I don't believe all people that insult others are "trolls". I think they do it for the opposite reason that "trolls" do. "Trolls" do it to make the other person look bad, making them look funny. Others do it to make the other person look bad as well, but they also do it to make themselves sound smarter.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:07
#71
Wow. Orangeo. Seriously?
That was mean. No, legit, that was just mean. He was sharing his definition of insulting (which happens to be very similar to many others' definitions) and you bite his head off. Relax.
Everyone's been mad about something. I admit, I was pretty angry at first. You know what happened? I calmed down, apologized for any ignorant angry posts I might have made (in another thread, but if you haven't seen it already, I'm sorry for any ignorant angry posts I may have made), and began to debate more calmly.
Calling someone 'stupid' does not argue a point. Calling someone 'Brutus' does not argue a point. Mocking someone does not argue a point. Similarly, calling someone a 'Brandish spammer' or 'Skolver Zombie' does not argue a point. All of these things, however, can make someone feel lousy (or angry) with varying degrees of effectiveness. And why would you want to make someone feel lousy/angry while not arguing your point? Whey would you want to make someone feel lousy/angry in the first place? (I admit, Skolver Zombie was my term, and I'm sorry for inventing/using it.)
Both sides need to keep it civil. Both sides.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:22
#72
"You joke saying that FSC is
@poke
"You joke saying that FSC is so hard anyways, regarding my comment. Is that condescending? In my opinion, and again, others may not agree, it is a form of mockery. It's taking my own words and twisting them to make me sound stupid."
Yes, but see how you skip the argument parts of my comments, and focus on the jokes? I wasn't trying to hurt your ego by saying that I could run FSC in frostbreaker, my intent was to bring about the point that completing FSC with an item does not make it useful. Instead of honestly replying, you wave the 'ITS AN INSULT' flag once more.
"However, how am I using them? If by them, you mean the people insulting, I'm not doing anything to them. "
By them I mean the fourms. Why are you still using the fourms, if they're so 'hateful'?
"To say "Here, i'll put my last post in your language" is unnecessary."
I meant that somewhat sinceirly. Wasn't trying to be mean or nice, just simplifying a miscommuniation. Relax.
Either way, this thread just looks like a noble crusade to me. Demonize people you don't like, teach other people to do the same, then call upon them to assist you.
@ doctor
"That was mean. No, legit, that was just mean. "
It's not mean, its what I honestly belive. the same way you honestly belive what you're saying. Am I yelling at you for calling me 'mean?' No. You think I'm mean and angry, so be it.
"I calmed down, apologized for any ignorant angry posts I might have made (in another thread, but if you haven't seen it already, I'm sorry for any ignorant angry posts I may have made), and began to debate more calmly. "
Congradulation on your baptisim into the church of Pokenuevo. May your sinns be washed away! Oops, was I sarcastic? I'm allowed to, I'm making a point. Poke has recruited people who claim to be critical of "both sides".
"Calling someone 'Brutus' does not argue a point."
Yes it does. I'm explaining how he is pulling people to his side by defining what should and should not be hated. Brutus was a powerful politician that used simmilar methods. It is a point, not an insult.
"And why would you want to make someone feel lousy/angry while not arguing your point? "
I argue my point. However, if people can find something that they can define as insulting, they focus on that, as opposed to my argument.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:12
#73
Orangeo
Do you still play this game? I thought I read that you quit this game. If you quit, then why in the world do you care? I want to understand where you are coming from. I'm interested in your motivation. Maybe I can help you get over the rage. ^^
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:17
#74
Orangeo, I give up on this argument. Sorry, but I don't see it going anywhere, and it isn't productive for either side.
Doctor, basically what you said in your last sentence. Everyone needs to calm down and relax. :3
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:20
#75
"Do you still play this game?
"Do you still play this game? I thought I read that you quit this game. If you quit, then why in the world do you care? I want to understand where you are coming from. I'm interested in your motivation. Maybe I can help you get over the rage. ^^"
Nope. I'm a fourmer. Why do I care? i'm simply motivated to solve problems, the same way pokenuevo claims to be. Don't tell me to relax when I am and have been, I don't feel insulted in the slightest.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:24
#76
Orangeo
I did not tell you to relax, Poke did. I am glad that you are trying to help solve problems, but why don't you play anymore? If you want to solve problems, you should play again! ... with me! Why not come back to the game? You can be even more helpful that way!
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:28
#77
"I did not tell you to relax,
"I did not tell you to relax, Poke did."
I wasn't trying to say that was you. Sorry for not using quotes :S
"If you want to solve problems, you should play again! "
Playing the game only inforces the problems. I'm not going to ask anyone to quit however.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:31
#78
Orangeo
D'awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. D:
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 15:52
#79
OK, there are flaws with Spiral Knights.
We all know that there are flaws with this game - it's the same as with any game that is split P/F2P.
- Extremist F2Pers hate P2Pers because they paid money to get a 'shortcut' into the game - ie. CE - and thus hate them as supposedly lazy people.* P2Pers thus respond in type, so many of them hate F2Pers.
- Some P2Pers will dislike F2Pers for being cheap.
- Some F2P players envy rich people (ie. stereotypical P2Pers, who spend money on CE, or people who have money IRL) and from envy comes hate.
*The irony of F2Pers hating P2Pers? Without P2Pers:
- the game would not exist
- CE prices rise short-term, then CE ceases to exist long-term, so they cannot get past 2*
- the game population declines
- some former F2Pers become P2P for CE, and hoard it because it is too rare.
In short, SK becomes P2P.
The question is, Where is the difference between P2Pers and F2Pers drawn? Are F2Pers religiously free, or do they buy CE every so often, or even elevator passes? Are P2Pers all people who only buy CE, or do they only pay monthly for an elevator pass because they feel that the game is worth that/to support the devs?
In short, all definitions vary, and everybody hates everybody else because they are classed as something different to the subject. This is, possibly, the source of hate on these forums.
So, why all the hate? It's simple: Human nature. Male teenagers naturally insult other male teenagers (believe me, I know) over minor, almost petty things such as their preference of music, which can end up with its importance amplified to such extent that they will not speak to each others for weeks, even months. When it comes to major things such as the F2P-P2P discrimination, where even what either of these parties are is confused, all heck breaks loose.
To be honest, I'm surprised the GMs have held it all together for so long. If you're reading this, GMs, congratulations.
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 17:07
#80
Orangeo, I didn't mean for
Orangeo, I didn't mean for you to relax. I meant for everyone on the forums in the most sincere way possible. :$
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 17:59
#81
Fixed for Pokenuevo
"Orangeo, I didn't mean for just you to relax. I meant for everyone on the forums, in which you are included as a subset, in the most sincere way possible. :$"
I'm helping! =D
Tue, 08/14/2012 - 18:02
#82
lol, Thanks Dorael for fixing my sentence to what I meant! I guess it was too vague, and now that I reread it, it probably was.
Wed, 08/15/2012 - 04:49
#83
What is with the random CE
What is with the random CE p2p f2p argument above?
"So, why all the hate? It's simple: Human nature. Male teenagers naturally insult other male teenagers "
Ok, random sexism. Sweet. My two cents is that catfights occur at a higher frequency than manfights (or boyfights), but some of the time one of the people is actualy just rawcake in disguise. Hue hue hue.
"When it comes to major things such as the F2P-P2P discrimination"
Major? I don't even...
"To be honest, I'm surprised the GMs have held it all together for so long. If you're reading this, GMs, congratulations."
More random player hate disguised as OOO love. Nice. Moderating threads isn't that hard, you just have to read them about half as much as I do and comment as few times as possible. OOO dosen't hold the game together, players do, because they put up with OOO's mistakes.
"Orangeo, I didn't mean for you to relax. I meant for everyone on the forums in the most sincere way possible."
When you tell people to relax, you're implying that they aren't. You're almost saying 'u not relaxed bro?', basicaly the inverse of 'u mad bro?'. I can understand its not intended to be inflamatory, but it still makes me look less relaxed than I am. Like when doctor accused me of 'biting your head off'. Personly, I don't think I bit your head off. It's debateable, but you don't see me telling people that they need to relax. Virtuewis didn't tell anyone at all to relax, and made a slight effort to point it out.
Also, I understand you don't just mean me, but that's somewhat beside the point.
It's kinda obvious.