protest against invincibilty frames
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 12:35
as you all may know, lockdown was ruined today, giving people back invincibility frames. this means that people don't take the hits that should be there. this means that people who work in teams, can't manage one player. this means that all other weapons will take the back seat and be considered useless.
i'm tired of this issue, and it needs to be fixed. if anyone in OOO fought in LD against players as it is now, you would know how !@#$%#@ this is.
you sicken me OOO... return in to the way it was.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 12:49
#2
Leaving this here.
I'm up for boosting other weapons but this was just a bug. Nothing more. You can hate them all you want but here is something you should think about:
For starters, YOU are not the top priority. There may be people behind you with the same views but not everyone wants this change.
As for the team-work thing it's still there and always have been. Have you ever fought a group in Lockdown before and survived? I don't exactly think so.
The only real reason people want this bug is so they can just spam Auto-Aim. I'm fine with people using Auto-Aim but my last 15 games total all had me dying by people just spamming finishers with either Final Flourish or Rocket Hammer. I'd be fine if they removed the invincibility frames for weapons such as Winmillion, Dread Venom Striker, and other weapons of the same fashion.
So overall? Protest all you want but without a lot of people with the same views (which as far as I've seen is a very small majority of players) you're probably not going to get the changes YOU want.
You'll probably just say the exact same thing as I did (IE: want YOU want) against me but I'm just leaving this here.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 12:49
#3
it's common sense glacies, if
it's common sense glacies, if you get hit, you get hit. none of that should be null.
thats like saying you'll survive a semi if your buddy punches you before it happens... it's stupid, it's highly abused, and it's just not right.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 12:52
#4
Damien, you already stated
Damien, you already stated your opinion in several threads, including those of your own creation. Writing the same thing in yet another thread doesn't add to the discussion; only to the drama.
Personally, I think that the game needs more non-lockdown things to discuss. Players, get on that.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 12:54
#5
i'm gonna keep bringing this
i'm gonna keep bringing this up until it's returned. because right now, LD is unplayable
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 12:58
#6
If it's unplayable, how are
If it's unplayable, how are people playing in it?
Also, let's make this clearly fair: Have Lockdown maintain the current features yet let's add those features you love in ARCADE. IT'LL MAKE THE GAME HARDER! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:04
#7
If you wanted to sign a
If you wanted to sign a petition and protest the removal of a bug, at least make your post more organized and convincing.
having phrases like "you would know how !@#$%#@ this is." and "you sicken me OOO" doesn't really give people sympathy for your cause.
Also, teamwork is still possible. And LD is playable, the only time it wasn't was during the june 6 lag bug.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:06
#8
It'd be interesting, shields will probably not last a second or two on traps. Standing on traps would mean near insta death. As for trolljan dashes, I reckon they deal the same crazy damage like a 3 hit hammer. Against things like... well, it WOULD be interesting.
As for Lockdown...
For the love of vog, IT'S ONLY A FREAKING MINI GAME IN A GAME. You can always choose to not play it. And if it's unplayable, then something is wrong with the XX playing on the coliseum interface.
+1 to pauling and glacies
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:17
#9
I'm protesting as well.
Why? Because weapons and KNIGHTS acted the way they should have.
It also gives a perfect opportunity to buff all the armors that Suck, by boosting the Defense and health by a bunch. And only half boosting AotF and Chaos.
Also with the Armor boosts comes a damage boost to Monsters. Making the Optimizing armors trade defense and life expectancy for Damage and boosts. That will make them less of a Steel cannon, and more of the Glass cannon that they're supposed to be.
This will require a bit of a re-do on the presentation... EG plate still has max Normal defense, and skolver LOOKS like it has much less then it does now... But only because the scale has been changed.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:25
#10
...
Unplayable?
You weren't complaining before the bug ._.
And dude, OOO said they are going to look into this and consider bringing it back with some tweaks.
Stop.
What I would like to see happen, is that the plate series and guardians in LD can only get invinciblity frames.
Plate might be viable, and guardians won't get slaughtered.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:34
#11
"We're finding it interesting
"We're finding it interesting that some positive things have come out of it and are considering future changes that may support some of what's happening now. This is absolutely not a guarantee, but we're considering it."
Here's the quote that the post above mentioned.
Anyways, @Damienfoxy:
Calm down, you're not convincing anyone of anything with that attitude.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:50
#12
Didn't play LD before bug,
Didn't play LD before bug, didn't play LD during bug, and still not playing LD.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 14:03
#13
I am in favor of bringing it back... I really don't see why people didn't like it.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 14:25
#14
:/
I also don't play Lockdown, but: People will always complain that X weapon is better than Y weapon, and those invincibility frames cripple seriously lots of equipment there. If people complain of dying too fast, OOO could double/triple the Knight's life in PvP mode, instead of making a lot of weaponry useless when PvPing.
So, and I am repeating myself, this patch was seriously the worst patch ever: a patch to "fix" a "bug" that was making the PvP mode enjoyable and how it should be, and OOO instead of balancing properly PvP they rolled it back to its previous state!
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 14:29
#15
I guess OOO didn't want to be
I guess OOO didn't want to be bothered about having to balance out blitz needle and hammers...
However, giving back invincibility frames should not be the solution.
How about a compromise? Only guardians with their shields up, and the players protected by those shields get invincibility frames.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 14:30
#16
I'm not even reading this if
I'm not even reading this if you were paying attention to the other threads you would know that the developers recognize it's something that the majority of the community is wanting and they are going to work with us to bring it back in a more balanced way.
Glad people pay attention... lalalala...
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 15:03
#17
SUNSHAAAAAAAAARDS
Damien, cool down a bit. While I'm glad you posted a thread for our side, it does no good to be all angry and shouty- OOO is listening to our opinions on this, after all. (There's no conspiracy, don't worry.)
Now, the majority of those against the bug seem to have problems with:
-Flourishes/Hammers "OVERPOWEREDDDDD"
-Cutters/Autoguns "OVERPOWEREDDDDD"
-Guardian Shields were turned into soggy napkins
-It took "NO SKILL" to play
-"I CANT SOLO GROUPS ANYMORE!"
Apart from the Shields, I think they were really overreacting- but then again, I'm a bomber, so I move and drop bombs (or cloak) on Capture Points instead of standing around. (What REALLY needs a nerf is the Polaris, with stupid shock THAT RUINS EVERYTHING... okay, angry bomber rant over, don't nerf the Polaris.) There are, of course, simple solutions to what problems there are.
-Invincibility frames should affect Flourishes- but to keep people from trolling groups of gunners, the frames only apply to each player's weapon. Same goes (possibly) for Hammers. This could be difficult to implement, or it could be simple, but it'd remove the complaints- Flourishes would still be useful for hit-and-run strikers, and Hammers would be usable as a hit-and-run weapon for everyone. (Imagine a Recon hit-and-running with a hammer... scary.)
-Autoguns are really not that nasty. The trick is follow The Doc's First Law of Lockdown: "An object in motion is likely to remain in motion; an object at rest, may he rest in peace." Move around on the CP or even, God forbid, off the CP if you see the gunner coming. Try not to be too predictable, but remember to stay on the CP. If the gunner comes up from below... well, that could be a problem. Perhaps the Autoguns can emit a glow if pointed upwards, as a warning? Keep in mind though- you must be ABSOLUTELY BLEEPIN' STILL TO FIRE AN AUTOGUN. As for getting killed while spawn camping? Quit griping, you're SPAWN CAMPING.
-Cutters and interrupt are pretty nasty. Perhaps it should be weakened to interrupt at the same rate an FF or Levi would, or just not interrupt altogether; the Cutter would still do a lot of damage, fast.
-Guardian Shields were soggy napkins against a DVS or a Hammer, I know that's true. There are a billion different fixes posted by various users; just look at the 5-page mega-thread to see some of them. I'm too tired of posting them over and over.
-Half the people shouting "NO SKILL" were probably Skolvers that stepped on an RSS and got theirs, but the other half were legit finding it easy with their toothpicks. Of course, I found toothpicks to be a joke- it was Polaris that really got me killed most of the time. (Dang Polaris.) Still, if they really are that bad to you non-bombing folk, I've already listed a nerf.
-Some of the "NO SKILL" criers quote the fact that two less "skilled" players teamed them and defeated them. That is teamwork. Loads of people will shout, "NO ITS SPAMMING! ITS STUPID!" Yes, but running straight toward two players with no plan is stupid, too. You should have a plan of attack- you know, something that takes one half second of thought. Like feinting an attack with the dash, then circling around when they dash at you? Or better yet... use a Recon Cloak. People claim, "BUT I DIE WITH IT!!!" Well, stop being predictable. If Seiran would kindly link his Recon guide...
-One person WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS said it was easier for him to take on groups. This will be fixed if things like Flourishes are tweaked.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 15:39
#18
Still think...
Re-balance armor = fixes the Fast weapon spam.
On cutters... The only really dangerous threat is a MAX ASI cutter... that Will Rip up a Vog Flourish Striker without them EVER being able to swing... but the thing is ... thats what it was MADE to do. Just like a Blitz is MADE for damage, or a Hammer for being OP. (Paid content anyone?)
With the bug, the Element of surprise was enhanced... which made my recon-ninjaing so delicious...
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 15:56
#19
...
There are several things that annoyed me about the invincibility frames bug
1) The bug was not just in LD, which a lot of people seem to forget. It isn't that bad when farming FSC, because most people can get by without being touched. It really shone in Shadow Lairs. Normally when you are revived, you have a few moments of invincibility. With the bug, said invincibility was nonexistent. There were several times in Rabid Snarby where I would revive and then immediately get clubbed by a Zombie that was standing on me, while I was still suppose to be invincible. It was incredibly noticeable and lead to countless cheap shots that lead to the party resorting to CE revs a lot earlier than they should have. Another instance where this was noticeable was in the very same run, when Snarby decided to get a bit more involved. When Snarby was plowing across the screen, I kept getting hit MULTIPLE times by the spike trail he causes, when normally only one should of hit. This lead to the spike trail knocking off almost 2/3 of my health bar, instead of maybe 1/4.
2) I hated the Blitz in lockdown. Maybe some people never went up against someone who really understood how to use it, but a good player can spray an entire point with a Blitz charge, while offscreen. You have only about 1/8 of a second to react and walk away with 1/2 of your life gone, instead of 3/4 of it gone (This is with full Skolver and a Heart Trinket). Even while moving, unless you are moving on and off a point (which no one does when capping said point), you are going to be hit hard with no way to see it coming.
3) Guardians were a pushover. I remember walking up to a shielding Guardian with another Recon buddy and just stun locking him with normal BRANDISH ATTACKS. That isn't skill! I could get my dog to chew on the mouse, getting the exact same result! Normally when I try full combos on shielding Guardians, even with weapons like a Flourish, I would end up getting hit by a skillfully timed riposte. A huge amount of Guardian gameplay is based around blocking or withstand the right attacks, and counter-attacking when your opponent is vulnerable between swings. However with the bug, you wouldn't be able to get a counter-attack in because you kept getting hit by rapid combos.
4) Flourishes and Hammers were getting an additional strike in when using the full combo, adding in a dramatical damage boost. People then proclaim that OOO should nerf Flourishes and Hammers... but give me a single reason OUTSIDE of Lockdown that warrants either weapon receiving a nerf? Flourishes NEED to be fast because both Fiends and Beasts are equally fast if not faster (the exceptions being Chromalisks, Silkwings, and Trojans). The Hammer's main problem is environmental hazards. If you can evade flying into fire and spikes while using the Hammer, then I say you deserve to be rewarded with a weapon that deals an ungodly amount of damage.
I did like the Cutters though, and I wouldn't mind those back.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 16:25
#20
Thanks for the Clarification.
^
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 16:53
#21
What Traevelliath said. I
What Traevelliath said. I mean it was fun for a week, but then it got old rather quickly.
|
V is hilarious.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 16:47
#22
From the Law Office of Damien F. Oxy
If my client does not receive a judgement that is deemed satisfying by his legal counsel, myself, I will hereto stand outside the courthouse every morning and scream until the ruling is overturned.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 18:12
#23
@Thrillhaus
Will you cover the defendant's legal fees and the judge's salary for a year if the ruling is in your favour?
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 18:23
#24
.
Why wasn't anyone complaining about the invincibility frames before the accidental change.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 18:44
#25
now i can see why there were complaints about ld bug
standing on cap point is too boring for me so i never got needled
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 18:44
#26
Invalid comprehension
Because nobody thought of it.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 19:25
#27
...They did return it to the way it was
I'm glad you picked a t1 yelling gremlin to be your avatar, its very fitting.
Make a better argument other than yelling at OOO for returning things to the way they were, and your opinions might be, uh, respected?
LD was too broken. If I didn't run around spamming full AA combos into peoples faces as soon as I saw them, they would do it to me instead and I would be the one immediately dead, and not them. 1v1 battles were a matter of hitlocking your opponent before they did the same to you, and 2+v1 was a quick match of tennis until someone killed the ball.
No, LD isn't perfect with invincibility frames in. But its far better than without.
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 21:10
#28
Why wasn't anyone complaining
Why wasn't anyone complaining about the invincibility frames before the accidental change.
Because people that werent equipped to play it had already learned to avoid it.
Sentenza + AP = back on maximum bottleneck mode = /
~Luke
Wed, 06/13/2012 - 22:06
#29
After some time of getting used to it...
I miss the bug dearly.
It was a lot easier to handle people with ASI and spammers didn't actually bother me much since they were easy to avoid, now my damage has dropped by about 2-3K and I find myself having trouble against people with at least a med ASI. I guess I'm just used to being able to hit first and hit hard but now, it's the person with the fastest ASI that gets to hit back first (unless of course I boost away from them and hope to hit first again, time consuming, yes, fun, not really, they're boost forward is better than my boost backward and their flourish tends to catch m while side boosting.)
The returned lack of variety is disappointing, there were a few gunners, some bombers but it became just another Toothpick and GF swinging contest for the most part. I'd much rather have spam and variety than monsters and clones. There were so many things to watch out for that it was exciting wonderign what the teams would be like. Now it's bland and the the with awesoem connection wrecks the other team, able to go back an heal even if some people get lucky shots.
Alas, I shall adapt to this and continue to use the weapons I like, all the while getting ever better at handling clones.
People complain a lot about being [sexually harassed and mistreated] with rapid-fire weapons but then people complain about such [sexual harassment and mistreating] not being possible anymore...
As I am not a LD player, are current invincibility frames too many?