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The whole Market should be Occupied.

80 replies [Last post]
Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:36
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni

NOTE: P2P = Pay to play.
F2P = Free to play.
(For those who don't know)

I have enough proof that the ce market is being manipulated by many p2pers. Not all MANY.
The demand is the same and the supply of ce is enermous is have seen it all on the market itself.
There are some p2pers who have Millions of ce and Crowns.
And They maniplate the market by using an amount x 1000. So F2pers only can offer 1 crown higher and then it keeps rising.
This shouldn't been allowed.
The only way that the market won't been abused is if there will be a patch released.

This patch will only allow Ce Sellers to sell only ce, So they won't be able to play with the buying ce places.
Buyers can only buy ce and not sell ce, So the buyers can't resell the ce for a higher profit.
This system will be 100% fair because both sides can't play with economy.
Only if the Ce sellers want to sell it higher.
And the buyers want to buy it higher.

This maybe be hard to tell or patch but it is worth telling.
That players with higher ce then crowns should be labeled as CE sellers. and are only able to sell CE.
And players with higher crowns should be labeled as CE buyers. And are only able to buy CE.

I am not saying to decrease or increase the market.
But let the market be valid for the F2pers and not for the rich p2pers with the crowns they have to bid an amount x 1000. so F2pers must raise the price.

PS: This may contain alot of Rage from P2pers.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:42
#1
Sirenblue's picture
Sirenblue
The Occupy Movement is now a dead meme

and the original meaning has been lost.
Nice job breaking it, heroes.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:53
#2
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Sirenblue

This is the only way to keep the ce market stable.
And not being controlled by many p2pers who own millions of crowns and ce.

Just like this.
Here is the proof of the market being manipulated.

http://tinypic.com/r/52i8om/6

If you notice 8541 is the price to buy CE, Stacked by 1325...
There is no way a F2per Would bid that high and able to get that much.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:58
#3
Aumir's picture
Aumir
And

What can you do to stop that? Until then, I can only do this.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:58
#4
Softhead's picture
Softhead
Meh.

Blame Supply and Demand. Now can you PLEASE stop making thse threads?

We have like nth of these every rise of price.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:06
#5
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Tohru-Adachi

You are just ignorant.
This has nothing to do with supply and demand.

As A F2per I know it myself.
No one would buy that high and stack that much.
Thats just abusing it.

Owh and if you are tired of my post.
Don't bother posting.
Stop wasting you're time.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:10
#6
Aumir's picture
Aumir
Also

I have to ask something that has been annoying me for a bit because I may be making myself a tinfoil hat: How can people not lose crowns through speculation and rising prices, if such thing exists.

Mostly due to the 2% crown fee. Would a solution to this to rise the fee?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:10
#7
Softhead's picture
Softhead
If I could sell Ce with what I could had bought, even though,

I have more crowns, am I a Seller, or a buyer?

If I don't need the market CE, and want to sell it, but I have more crowns overall, I can't.

Some P2Pers don't blast though their money like that, but also rely on the market when they are not using credit cards.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:17
#8
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Tohru-Adachi

You will always be able to trade it in the trade chat.
But not the market.

This will prevent manipulating the market.
That simple.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:21
#9
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Aumir

Most of the sellers take that risk.
But they have so much crowns/ce that it won't be called a risk.
Because if it keeps raising they will sell it and still get a higher profit.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:39
#10
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
So how would you determine

So how would you determine who has more ce/cr? A set amount? That would screw over people with both lots of cr and ce. You say that is fine? So they're sitting on a small fortune, and you refuse to let them buy/sell to pass off the ce/cr to other players? Makes sense.

Or will you determine it by some sort of average price of cr per ce? In which case, players can simply pass funds between alts until they have an equilibrium, tilting one way or another to work both sides of the market anyways.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:50
#11
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances
--

"This system will be 100% fair because both sides can't play with economy.
Only if the Ce sellers want to sell it higher.
And the buyers want to buy it higher."

Do you think economy works like that? Yesterday, a bottle of water was more expensive, yet I didnt agree to that.
Sellers have what we need, we depend on them, we aren't in a good position to complain, it's not as simple.

"You will always be able to trade it in the trade chat.
But not the market."

Exactly, touch the market, and all the sellers will stop using it, in favor of spamming trade chat for higher profit.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:55
#12
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Demonicsothe

If someone has both lots of ce and crowns why would he bother using the market. A F2per would stop using the market as far as I know.
But what if a p2per wants easy more crowns by messing up with the prices of the market?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:58
#13
Coneykrab's picture
Coneykrab
This is a horrible idea.

As Demonicsothe is saying, how do you determine who is a 'buyer' and who is a 'seller'? How would sellers acquire CE to sell without buying it?

I wanted to compare this to some form of a country's economy, but no society that we know of has seemed to limit who can buy and who can sell. This leads me to believe that it was never thought of (for good reasons), or any society that has tried this method has hidden their foolishness away from textbooks.

I don't get this comment; "You are just ignorant. This has nothing to do with supply and demand. As A F2per I know it myself. No one would buy that high and stack that much. Thats just abusing it.". Supply and Demand has everything to do with this, every economy does. I was a F2P, but I purchased some CE. Did I sacrifice my knowledge when I purchased CE? I'm not sittin' pretty because of what I purchased, so even though you said in your original post that you're not mentioning ALL P2Pers, you seem to be back to that again. Demonicsothe has stated a way you can abuse your system.

This seems to be turning into some sort of a 99%'er-type protest. "*Few* people are *rich*, I'm *poor* and there's *nothing* I can do! It's not fair, give me money!" Isn't it funny how capitalism works? (The terms surrounded by *'s are some mix between sarcastic, false, and/or subjective definitions/terms).

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:58
#14
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Little-Juances

Exactly, touch the market, and all the sellers will stop using it, in favor of spamming trade chat for higher profit.

What way would you prefer to sell.
The AH and wait 2 days and get a result that its being sold.

Or the trade chat.
Spamming hours and hours.
I have seen alot of players trying to sell stuff outside the ah and many weren't succesfull.

Like myself.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:03
#15
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Coneykrab

So you're telling me as a f2per you might have collected 8 million crowns in a year since beta.
Wow thats quite an achievement you did there.

And as far as I know why would a f2per bid higher then the highest payout a mission can give you ?
And stack it that much who does need that much ce for ?
What is he going to do with millions of ce ?
Makes sense.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:03
#16
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
If someone has a lot of cr

If someone has a lot of cr and ce, they would play the market because

"a p2per wants easy more crowns by messing up with the prices of the market"

See what I did there?

Anyways, the reason spamming chat won't work because no one is looking for your stuff there. If everyone needed to look for stuff in chat, you would find a much more receptive crowd. If you force the energy depot to stop people from selling or selling at a price they want, they'll move to zone/trade to do the same thing. In fact, moving trade away from an official source would make the price fluctuate even wilder. One can buy ce cheap in one haven, then jump haven to sell for more.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:08
#17
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
http://tinypic.com/r/52i8om/6

http://tinypic.com/r/52i8om/6

I clicked on it.

I laughed.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:09
#18
Coneykrab's picture
Coneykrab
Erm, what?

Your post did little-to-nothing to answer my post. I said that there's not much of a difference between my knowledge as both a F2P and a P2P, I haven't amassed a ton of CE/Crowns as either; I don't care to.

Why would a F2P bid higher than the highest mission payout? Simple. Because they HAVE to.
"And stack it that much who does need that much ce for ?" What the heck does this mean? Why would a F2Per stack CE? Because that's a good way to get rich? I had a F2P friend who was making extreme profits without spending a dime. It can be done, you're just doing it wrong.
What would a F2P do with millions of CE? The same thing a P2P would do. Sell it, hoard it, who cares? No one's stopping them. Unless you want to make people sell their extra CE, but we call that War Communism.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:11
#19
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Demonicsothe

Well Try to sell the ce at 10k right now on the AH do you get a buyer no.
Infact the market is the best way to sell you're ce.

Because no one will buy higher then the amount they earn. only if you force them and thats by maniplulating the market.
Which happens alot these days.
Seen alot of ce on the market that goes for sale.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:16
#20
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Coneykrab

So you're are admitting that the market is being controlled by some rich people.
Who play with the amounts of the supply and demand.
Without playing in the clockworks and just using the marketing system.

Easy way to earn CR/CE but alot unfair to the other players.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:17
#21
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

The CE price goes up when idiots try to use the Market Tab. Look closely at the progression of the market tab. I see stuff like this SO MANY TIMES:

8100 x 1
8101 x 2
8200 x 1
8350 x 1
8351 x 18

Boom, CE price went up by 251 right before your eyes.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:18
#22
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
And I'm saying that they can

And I'm saying that they can still sell the ce off the market. There's many ways to abuse your system. One of which would actually lead to prices going up and down more than they do on the market. And I assume this is something you want to avoid, paying more for something you want less.

And as before. Not enough rich people with the time and mentality to force market up and keep it up.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:20
#23
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Traevelliath

People are impatientce thats the result of that...

Like if they bid higher they get faster or more ce -.-

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:21
#24
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Wait so, now its the f2p

Wait so, now its the f2p buyers fault? I'm confused, I thought you said market manipulators were the evil ones.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:36
#25
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

WHY?

Why can't you learn from the other several thousand of these threads that this isn't going to happen?

The reason, is that it won't fix anything. There is very little difference in sitting there clicking 'buy now' and in building a wall... both increase demand... one is easier. You really think that whoever is buying the millions of CE will be hindered by not being able to click fast enough?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:38
#26
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Demonicsothe

Some of them.

Both sides are are wrong.
One side shouldn't manuplite
other side should be patient.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:42
#27
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
So force players to buy a set

So force players to buy a set amount of ce a day? Really, which side are you trying to screw over?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:42
#28
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Fehzor

No he won't.
But many other players will be effected by this ?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:45
#29
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Demonicsothe

I ain't chosing a side.

Let all players decide.
And not the ones who are rich.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:47
#30
Theonebackthere's picture
Theonebackthere
Instead of screwing over people

Instead of screwing over people, they should implement the only 10 offers per person idea that was suggested a long time ago. That way unless you have 100 people willing to sway the market with a 1000 offer wall then it'll be fine.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:53
#31
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances
--

Distribute your energy between multiple characters and make 10 offers with each. An obstacle at first, but far from stopping it.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:57
#32
Hungran's picture
Hungran
Unfortunately

Too bad for us is the fact that OOO runs SK to make $$$. Therefore they only care about game SHARKS who spam hundreds per month, and hate us f2p ppls who steal server cause processing lagg.

BTW: OOO dont hurt me, when a good promo comes, ill spend loads to deflate the CE market, (or will I?)

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:02
#33
Theonebackthere's picture
Theonebackthere
@Little-Juances

I doubt people would take the time to do that but if they would then make CE offers IP based like Mist Energy is.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:33
#34
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Theonebackthere

Its A good suggestion..

It will help, and people might stop making profits of the market.
This way the ce might be stable for those who doesn't manipulate.

But will 3 rings do this ?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:54
#35
Wodanct's picture
Wodanct
x1325..Yes there are people

x1325..

Yes there are people trying to force the market to increase more, but its only a few Pay as you Go players and not many. Though the real problem is that people will bid higher than said person(s) wall of offers and so it will keep going up. There is many factors in why it is going up. People forcing it up and KoA is part of the reasons.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:26
#36
Coneykrab's picture
Coneykrab
"So you're are admitting that

"So you're are admitting that the market is being controlled by some rich people. Who play with the amounts of the supply and demand. Without playing in the clockworks and just using the marketing system. Easy way to earn CR/CE but alot unfair to the other players."

I doubt there are just a few people controlling the entirety of the system, give me proof of that. Even if it is, so what? Capitalism allows them to do this. I doubt that they aren't playing in the clockworks, but rather doing the Vanaduke mission. And once again, who cares if it's unfair? See: My 99%-er reference, it's one of my many good points that you ignore. :) By limiting profits off of CE, you limit the players unfairly, which hurts OOO as a business, which goes back and hurts this game.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:38
#37
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Coneykrab

You do the hard wark earning you're crowns.
And they laugh at you playing with you're crowns and ce by manipulate the market.

Seems legit.
Go on...

How about those T1/ T2 players.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:42
#38
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
So where do you expect the ce

So where do you expect the ce to come from, once you take away all the incentives for people to sell ce? Do you really think there's ce out there that are being pumped into the market without being paid for by someone with real money?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:46
#39
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Demonicsothe

Most of the manipulaters have enough ce farmed by messing with the market.
They collect other people ce and resell and keep doing this you would have millions crowns/ce.
I am starting to thinking that this could be even being possible by f2pers.

Since its being done.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:48
#40
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Messing? You mean, selling at

Messing? You mean, selling at a price that other players will buy at? Unless they are instantly selling it and not bidding, the players buying the ce are the ones at fault of driving up demand and prices. The ce seller posts a price that a player finds reasonable to obtain the ce at.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:51
#41
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Demonicsothe

Were not talking about the supply and demand.

We are talking about that players who manipulate the market can stack up so high that the players don't have a choice to bid higher to get their ce.
Not talking about the ce prices itself.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:04
#42
Softhead's picture
Softhead
Then why is a picture lof the prices involved?

It's (unfortuatley) a cycle.

You see it everytime.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:04
#43
Softhead's picture
Softhead
Then why is a picture lof the prices involved?

It's (unfortuatley) a cycle.

You see it everytime.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:00
#44
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Tohru-Adachi

Every problem can be solved.

So why not this one.

The picture was there to show that there are people who manipulate the market.
Not to show the prices...

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:08
#45
Coneykrab's picture
Coneykrab
Supply and Demand: It Happens.

If we're talking about market problems, supply and demand will always be talked about; it has a rightful place. The demand is high enough for the price to escalate, people will still buy it, so it will still be sold.

I don't know if you think that a select few players are sitting at their computers laughing maniacally while jacking up the price by hundreds, but that's not how things work. You keep ignoring this point, so now I'm demanding an answer to it; not addressing a point can mean that you don't have an answer for it. "By limiting profits off of CE, you limit the players unfairly, which hurts OOO as a business, which goes back and hurts this game.". Capitalism is funny stuff, it allows this to happen as long as people will buy what they sell (Hence, Supply and Demand).

If you want to attack the market problem, you should go to a PROVEN source of trouble; Vanaduke. There are many solutions that OOO can employ, such as limiting the mission to 3 victories per player, raising the Elevator Pass price, and raising the elevator costs in the Vanaduke floors to 15 or 20. Use of the last option can drop the profits down to 3/4 or 1/2 in an instant, potentially fixing the economy, without the unfair limiting of successful marketers.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:10
#46
Juances's picture
Juances
~

Lets be realsitic:
Those 'rich manipulators' probably dont need the crowns for anything else than cosmetic accesories or roll UVs to rub against you in LD. But you need the energy to play, craft, etc. They can wait all they want until we succumb to their 'unfair prices'. They have nothing to lose. You have nothing to fight against them. If OOO intervenes, they may simply decide keep their energy and nto sell at all, watching as your knight starves to death.

You may say 'but not everyone is a rich evil guy'. True, but in that case, will we have enough energy sellers to supply everyone? If not, demand will grow, prices will raise and back to square 1.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:13
#47
Aumir's picture
Aumir
Then why CE?

Then more reason to make CE market only for accesories and such, and delete elevator & crafting energy costs if CE doesn't matter anymore for content to the old playerbase.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:31
#48
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni
Juances

They kinda already have enough to buy a ton of accesories or roll uvs.

I don't get the point of getting richer while you don't need to become rich.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:44
#49
Coneykrab's picture
Coneykrab
That's pretty sad.

Look at that from a real life point. You want to be rich in real life, don't you? Why not in here too?

And if you don't need to become rich, why are you complaining about prices in the first place, if you don't want to be rich/successful, this shouldn't bother you whatsoever.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 20:13
#50
Tiffanie's picture
Tiffanie

Graveyard. Just... do it. There is absolutely NO logic in your OP.

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