Spiral Knights - Do Shock Ticks deal Elemental Damage?

Do Shock Ticks deal Elemental Damage?

13 replies [Last post]

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 15:55

Havenihaveaproblem

Ok, I have been trying to figure out how what type of damage shock and fire deal when they tick. There appear to be two differing opinions to the shock argument, and I was hoping someone could please separate opinion from fact for me.

Side: Shock ticks elemental damage

Demonicsothe and Bopp

Side: Shock ticks are unaffected by elemental defense; its damage can only be mitigated by shock resist

Spiral Knights Wikipedia (shock) (It is only the initial infliction of shock that deals elemental?)

Some of the posts favoring the position that shock ticks elemental damage reference the SK Wiki Damage Page, where under elemental damage it is stated that status effects deal elemental damage. Three things that suggest this information was wrong:

1. My understanding is that fire does NOT deal elemental damage, and this is corroborated by the fire page on the SK Wiki.

2. It contradicts the statement by the shock page linked above.

3. Someone edited this phrase out within the last few days (who knows if he knew what he was doing).

My understanding of fire is that the damage from fire ticks can only be reduced by fire resist, irrespective of the damage type involved in inflicting the fire. Is shock the same way, or is it actually elemental? I've gone as far as I can in my research of this. Is there anyone who can provide reasoning to which is correct? Thanks!

If you happen to have any additional insight on the other status effects (I guess just freeze) and how they function, please state it so this thread can be referenced by others. Appreciate your time!

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 17:29

Little-Juances

On monsters, it undoubtly does elemental or at the very least, follows the same rules. Constructs and undeads get consistent extra damage. Gremlins and beasts are almost unnafected. Also true for oilers, only when they burn. Matches perfectly with elemental damage.

Fire on the other hand, gets weird and deals different damage, even to monsters in between the same family, indicating it has it's own rules.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 17:32

Demonicsothe

You can click on the number

You can click on the number beside the posts, so people can be linked directly to that post.

I say shock deals elemental, due to the green bars and the damage it does to the various clockwork monsters. However, I don't think it is reduced by elemental defence. I use mad bomber in fsc, and occasionally I get shocked by the trojan fart. I don't remember exactly, but I do take more damage, anywhere from half a bar to 2 bars more damage from each shock tick.

I could be wrong though, if my armour did prevent more shock damage. This is fairly easy to test, equip a non elemental armour, and get shocked from 1 source. Head back up, come down to the same depth, same room, same enemy. Get shocked again with your elemental armour. You'll probably have to be fairly deep in order to get accurate testing.

Also what Juances said.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 18:02

Trying

I guess I'll test it out on the shock grates in the ATH.

edit: that didnt work out well...

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 18:24

Bopp

might as well show up now

Fire ticks are red, suggesting normal damage, but normal armor does not lessen them --- only fire armor does. The wiki and my personal experience support these assertions.

Shock ticks are green, suggesting elemental damage. I haven't carefully observed shock damage numbers on monsters, and I don't really know whether elemental armor lessens shock damage to knights. The wiki suggests not, but this is the kind of thing that people might extrapolate from fire without really having evidence.

The wiki is written by players, and hence not perfectly reliable. For example, the Shock page says that attacks that deal shock also deal elemental. However, the Trojan page says that the trojan bump attack deals normal, shadow, and shock, with no elemental.

Juances and Demonicsothe tend to be spot-on, but I would love to see a conclusive study of the effects of shock on various monster families and on knights with various armors.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 04:06

Havenihaveaproblem

Well, thanks for the

Well, thanks for the responses. I've read countless posts from all 4 of you, and I think you guys are just great. Your guide Bopp in particular is awesome and has helped me a lot; unfortunately, I never would have found it without seeing one of your myriad linked posts because the SK Wiki search engine does not lead to it directly. It only seems to advertise the other swordmaster's guide (which has also been useful). Just saying, I feel it is only fair that at the least the swordmaster's guide should link to yours as well.

Regarding the status effects, it seems some tests are in order. I am still in T2 and am F2P, but, fortunately, I have a shockburst brandish. I think some lumber vs. slimes comparisons from JK runs are in order. Because T2 monsters deal a mixture of damage types, I don't think I will be able to definitively say how shock interacts with a knight, but I can at least see how monsters receive the damage. It might take me some time to get back on it, but I will inform as to the results between neutral and elemental.

Oh and good tip quoting the posts! I'll edit that in. Thanks!

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 19:56

Bopp

great

Just some clear, careful tests of how your (proto-)Voltedge shock affects slimes and constructs in RJP would help. Please do it and report back.

I'm glad that you've found our help useful, and thanks for your kind words. I'll try to over-expose my sword guide even more. ;)

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 04:41

Havenihaveaproblem

Well I stayed up way too late

Well I stayed up way too late to do this, but I was excited to make some contributions. I will list my results from depths 14 and 15 from the Royal Jelly (JK Bat) mission; in addition, I have two sets of results. My first run my loadout was:

Loadout 1
Dusker Coat (UV stun medium) lvl. 9
Miracle Hood (UV stun medium) lvl. 4
Dark Thorn Shield lvl. 9
Shockburst Brandish lvl. 10
Blackhawk lvl. 10

I ran a JK run with this set up, and then I repeated the JK run with:

Loadout 2
Scary Skelly Suit lvl. 10
Miracle Hood (UV stun medium) lvl. 4
Defender lvl 10
Shockburst Brandish lvl 10
Blackhawk lvl. 10

The second loadout was to ensure that the bonus sword damage from my equipment was not influencing anything.

All data were tested at least 5-10 times each, and there appeared to be NO variation in the data for a given monster. In other words, all damage, duration, and general shock behavior was tested a number of times and always came out to be the same for a given monster in a given depth.

Results:

Depth 14

Slimes Tier 1 - Shockburst charge explosion dealt 51 damage. Shock tick dealt 12 damage in WHITE numbers. Duration 8.5-9 seconds. 3 ticks randomly distributed over the duration, including the initial tick from status infliction. Uncommonly, there was a fourth tick within the duration proving the ticks are randomly timed.

Slimes Tier 2 - Charge explosion dealt 45 damage. Ticked for 11 damage in WHITE numbers. Duration also 8.5-9 seconds

Lumber - Charge explosion 63 damage, Ticks 15 damage in ORANGE numbers. Duration ~ 7 seconds (still reached 3 ticks often; never saw 4). basic attacks dealt 119 on the first 2 swings and 147 on the third

Gun puppy - same as Lumber. Duration 8.5-9 seconds

Depth 15

Slimes T1 - 52 explosion, 13 ticks, in WHITE numbers. 8.5-9 second duration

Slimes T2 - Seems I forgot to write down? I think it was 47, and the ticks were 12 I think

Lumber - 64 explosion, 16 ticks. Duration ~7 seconds

Gun Puppy - same as Lumber. Duration 8.5-9 seconds

Loadout 2

Depth 14

Slime T1 - 47 explosion, 12 tick. 8.5-9 second duration

Slime T2 - Did not record. I must have been asleep when I did this.

Lumber - 56 explosion, 15 tick. ~7 seconds basic attacks 106 and 130 on the third swing

Gun Puppy - 56 explosion, 15 tick. 8.5-9 second

The point of loadout 2 was to explore the extent to which sword bonus UVs influenced the data, so a depth 15 test with loadout 2 was not considered necessary.

Conclusion

Shock ticks elemental damage on monsters, evidenced by the orange, and greater, number values on the Lumber and Gun Puppy, but white numbers on the slimes. It ticks always the same damage. It ticks once upon initial application, then ticks randomly two, every now and then 3 more times over a 9 second duration. The duration for a given creature is always the same, and does not seem to be related to damage type susceptibility. Because the Lumber and Gun Puppy always took the same damage, yet the lumber had a lower duration (while the gun puppy was the same duration as the slimes), it is hypothesized that lumbers may have some shock resistance, whose primary effect is to lower the duration of the the status as opposed to weaken the damage.

The damage of the tick is irrespective of sword UV bonuses. It seems the UV bonuses granted a 12-13% bonus damage on the lumbers, or about 6-6.5% bonus per low sword damage UV - assuming they are additive -, which is mostly consistent with the Wiki. The small bonus percentile should have been large enough to grant a 1 damage difference had the UVs affected the tick damage. However, the UVs did increase the explosion damage by ~12%, so the explosion damage went up with the UVs, but the tick damage remained the same. The tick damage is influenced by depth.

Finally, the shock consistently dealt about (but not always exactly) 25% of the damage of the explosion used to apply it. After playing with some numbers, the discrepancy in this ratio around 25% between creatures does not seem to be due to rounding; instead, it is seemingly randomly assigned to be around 25% for a given monster and always deals the same damage. It does not seem to be related to shock resist because the Gun Puppy and Lumber both received the same damage, while the lumber always had a shorter duration of effect.

Another interesting tidbit that I could not figure out and may be a bug is that my damage vs. mini slimes is always white, including the shock ticks and explosions, but the sword swing itself from the charge attack has orange numbers on the mini slimes. I noticed this only on my last run and for the first time, so maybe I just had one bugged run!

Anyways, hope that is understandable and helpful! It definitely helped me in my decision to combust or not to combust...even though I am still thinking about it!

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 04:39

Trying

Mini slimes have always been bugged.

You still haven't answered the question of how it effects knights which would require careful clockworking tests or LD tests

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 04:55

Havenihaveaproblem

Yep, but I'd need a few

Yep, but I'd need a few things to do a test on knights. I don't have any friends to do a LD test, so that is out of the picture. I still don't have access to tier 3. Basically, I know I can go to IMF and get shocked, but how can I be certain that the damage is fully elemental in Tier 2? I have a 3* and a 4* helm that both have elemental defense. So, I'd have to equip a 2* cobalt helmet as a control, and maybe its lower normal defense would cause me to take more damage, rather than its lack of elemental defense.

To study the effect of shock status resist, well, I won't have shock resist until I get a divine veil, and then it is also iffy because when I remove the divine veil, I have to replace it with something equally as strong in elemental defense but without shock resist.

Essentially, I don't think I can conduct a proper experiment with the equipment I have, and it is not about to change soon because I can't afford anything else. But when I get there, if I ever do, I won't hesitate to run an experiment and post the results.

Edit: I need to reach Tier 3 and find a trap dealing shock status. Then I can test how elemental defense interacts with shock, if I can repeat the level at the same depth.

I think I can do the status test by using my tokens to purchase a minor shock trinket, but I still do not have a trinket slot open. I probably won't for a while to come. When I have one, I will be able to properly assess the effect of shock resist.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 05:06

#10

Bopp

great

Thanks for running what appears to be a careful test. You've included a lot of "extraneous" detail, which is actually a good thing, because it lends authenticity to your tests. To summarize your key findings again:
* Constructs incur more damage from shock than slimes do.
* Shock damage depends on depth, but not on damage bonus on the weapon that inflicted the shock.
* Shock duration did not depend on monster family, depth, or damage bonus on the weapon.
Don't be disturbed by the strange color-coding of the damage numbers. These things are notoriously buggy, or maybe we just don't understand the rule used to determine the color. Only the number matters, and that seems not to be buggy.

Here's an idea for your next test. Within a monster genus (e.g. lumber), there are often shock-themed species. How is the shock damage/duration different for a shock-themed lumber or zombie, compared to (say) a fire-themed lumber or zombie?

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 06:10

#11

Trying

They would be immune to it...

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 06:56

#12

Bopp

yeah, that's what I thought

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm just trying to get this thread to nail down some reliable statements, taking into account all of the exceptions.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 11:22

#13

Havenihaveaproblem

Nice!

yeah, I have been told my science tends to ramble. At any rate, I will definitely look into testing status-themed monsters and possibly damage to knights within the next several days. I do have to do some moving right now for my apartment. I will keep this updated for sure. Thanks for the support guys.

It's too bad I don't have the fire or ice brandish lines to test with. I might just buy the 3* versions for the hell of it, I suppose it's only 3 days of mist. I'd be interested to know how much damage fire ticks for relative to its explosion on the fireburst brandish line. I should probably upgrade a 3 star brandish too to see if everything increases proportionately with the upgrades.

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Do Shock Ticks deal Elemental Damage?