Spiral Knights - King Krogmo's Arcade Club

King Krogmo's Arcade Club

7 replies [Last post]

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 19:12

#6251

Luguiru

Arcade submissions

This seems to be Arcade based quests where the team is given objectives but without giving directly marketable rewards.

Seeing as there would be no way to get your crowns back and no profitable items drop within this Krogmo version of the Arcade (which is very similar to this) the high entry fee is less necessary, depending on how many tokens are rewarded by various challenges.

Most of these I remember seeing in an older thread where your party is rated based on how you did, such as how long it took on that floor; ten minutes being the maximum for a passing score. There were other measures which would modify rewards somehow, I think it was by giving tokens for a new system or something, but if you got less than minimum you would get little to few rewards. If I find the thread I will link it here.

I may as well add this thread to my index here seeing as you are one of the only new forum users around here to have their first suggestion have a decent topic with decent effort and intelligence put in, even if the topic is old but not common.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 04:53

#6252

Kazujaxyz

Luguiru kinda liked it. Woohoo! Makes me feel better now.

Aye, the reason for the high fee(besides a way to pay crowns instead of energy) is to make people also playing ACTUAL arcade/missions. I mean, see it like this:
Playing a single lockdown map costs 200 crowns, with the chance to get some of them back if you win. Very well.
Now, in the arcade club, you technically pay for a clockwork run where you don't need energy at all. Even if we assume that each clockwork map is about the size of the LD-arena(and they most likely are bigger), that's still whooping 6 times more content in a single session, and I'm talking about the single tiers here(Full runs would multiply it by 3). Also, the price orients on the best case: If you suck and die after 3 depths, you won't get enough tokens for the money you spend. However, if you do, say, a full hardcore run down to the core, you can expect the tokens to literally rain on you... and the prices could easily fund your next 10 runs(note that I can imagine nobody actually pulling that off except the truly best people in the game).
The point is, you pay more for an attraction that offers you more content and tons of prices in the case you can deal with the rules. Not to mention that due to the fact that Krogmo himself pays the elevators, you have to calculate in that people would end up playing it more than anything else if the price is set too low, thus removing the need of energy in the game unless you want more crowns for it... needless to say, OOO probably wouldn't have interest in something that hurts their wallet.
Of course, I could be wrong with this, but I think we are better off with simply letting the players pay a high price. I just don't think the cons don't cancel out the pros enough without the high price. If you prove me wrong, though, we can just as well let the players pay less.

I am often online on other forums that include suggestion topics, so I already know the Dos and Don'ts for a good suggestion. Though technically I said the truth: I am quite new to this game and I love it. I am also quite new to the forum, and this is my first suggestion on this forum ever... but I had some experience to begin with.

Between: Your first link also links to the compilation. Judging from your text, you probably wanted to link to another idea with a similar premise as my suggestion.

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 05:13

#6253

Kazujaxyz

I hate bumps, but...

Seeing as noone except Luguiru noticed/answered the idea, I think I'm gonna bump that thread with a new possible mode to add.

One loadout, one weapon, one life(or "One per knight")
This mode is designed for organized party-play. You should preferably have a full party with people you can work with.

Alright, this mode is essentially you throwing away every possible versatility of yours. You can't change your loadout for the whole trip, and the weapon you carry is locked to the first of your weapon slots! Ever had a situation like "Aw man, that fiend resists my grand faust, better take my final flourish then."? Now it's more like "Aw crap, that fiend resists my grand faust, better run faster than it!" Party Play is mandatory here, as you can only carry 4 weapons in total, and you better use these weapon slots wisely. You need to find a balance between your weapons, or else you will be beaten to death by a trojan you can't damage effectively. Or maybe a bunch of Gremlin demos that bomb you into dust 'cause you don't have any guns or even worse, only elemental weapons. It may sound harmless, but it's not. In other words: An unbalanced loadout of everyone may cause everyone to cause scratch damage against a monster and thus, make progress significantly harder.
In other words, you become specialized against your will. You need to communicate with your team more, as you can't solve situations with "IF WeaponA()==ineffective THEN WeaponB()" anymore. Gunners and bombers suddenly become even more useful than they already are as you can't take a sidearm with you doing their job instead. Likewise, balanced defenses become more practical too, as when every party member has another type of defense, it means that at least one member takes less damage against two monster familys, thus extending the life of the party in total.
I think a practical set for this mode might be one light sword, one heavy sword, a bomb and a gun. Though that can be mixed and matched as you want.
Referees sell you some items for points. Said points can be gathered by reviving less and venturing deeper. You don't revive automatically, and you can't E-revive. Other party members have to share their life with you. A total party kill means that the trip ends earlier than normal. Basically, hardcore rules with normal life-share-revive thrown in. You can choose between Tier 1, 2, 3. All start at depth 0, but yo can get further on higher tiers, with tier 3 meaning going down to the core. So basically a less extreme ruleset of hardcore, with the special flavour of "No versatility" thrown in.

How is this mode? Also, how's the idea in general? I expect some more criticism :/

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 08:41

#6254

Luguiru

Herp

Again, that sounds familiar, but your system is more restrictive and forces people to work together rather than making them want to work together.

If you are going to steal from me I can remove you from my index.

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 09:21

#6255

Kazujaxyz

Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't knew that.

Oh really? I didn't really saw it, but REALLY? In that case, I'm genuinely sorry for that. Really. Didn't saw it. I just thought something like this was missing in the whole idea, so I thought it up myself(in other words, I didn't steal from any other thread, it came up completely independly). I really didn't intend to steal anything. D:

Anyway, besides the fact that I really didn't intend to steal...

"... your system is more restrictive and forces people to work together rather than making them want to work together."
I really wanted to invoke exactly that. The rules should not only encourage them to work in a team, it should downright tie them to a rock if they don't. It may sound rude, but I wanted this mode to be specially for friends and people that already know each other. Of course, people could also let them assign themself to a random party, if they want the extra challenge. Sure, there may be people with egos greater than their heavy swords and downright noobs, but I think if we can assign people to each other depending on their score, it should be fine. Sabotage-noobs will not get far, and selfish posers will not get too far, as they too are bound to the rules and going "It's all about me" dooms them before they can even start showing off their l33t weapons.
The thing about "making them want" and "forcing them" is that with "Wanting", it's always implied that people can make it without teamwork and with "Forcing", it's downright impossible to do without some teamwork. I really aimed at the latter.
Basically, people are supposed to come with their friends and form an already known party. People can also try it in a random party, where they either will meet some morons(if the ranking system really fails to assign them right) or new fireforged friends.

But anyway, sorry if I was stealing. I can cancel that mode if you want. I'm ashamed by letting people think I would steal D:

Between: It may be just me, but all links always link to the starting post of your "Balancing, Branching, etc." thread. Am I doing it wrong, or are you?

Also, why are you the only one that acknowledges this threads existence? I'm just slightly confused that there has been no interest so far.

EDIT: Aw dang, just found a similar point on the list. It's called "Survival mode with one weapon"(so yeah, pretty obvious). I honestly don't know how I could've missed that. Indeed, that was a really stupid turn from my side. I would accuse myself for copying too if I would've noticed that myself. So anyway, sorry. I will scan the suggestion list twice next time, so I better darn don't copy anything ever again.
Though I think you also meant other points on the list. It's just the one that catched my eye after I scanned the list once again.

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 09:32

#6256

Luguiru

Broken links apparently

Hover your mouse over the links in this post. Do they have the #comment-{numbers} after the base forum number?

The address for the thread itself is this:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/53120

After the 53120 there should be hash tagging. If the hash does not appear in the links for you then Drupal is being stupid. If it appears in the links but you are redirected then something is wrong with your browser.

I appreciate that you want people to work together, but there has to be at least the chance to survive alone. The game is designed to be possible alone with any kind of weapon, though not guaranteed survival or quick success. Otherwise people would whine about their favorite equipment not working in certain areas. Imagine if specialized damage weapons did zero damage to resistant targets. That would not work with this game.

See here for some recent stuff on making the Arcade more favorable.

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 10:49

#6257

Kazujaxyz

Odd links :/

It's weird: The address you gave me to test the function(Click me) worked just fine. Only the other ones are making trouble. Maybe it has to do with the fact that they are linking to other threads and not just link to different posts in one and the same thread...
I see the links when I hover over the numbers. Maybe it's just a small problem for me... anyway, it's not too important.

"I appreciate that you want people to work together, but there has to be at least the chance to survive alone. The game is designed to be possible alone with any kind of weapon, though not guaranteed survival or quick success."
First off all, I will not question that at all. The game is supposed to let you win with any kind of weapon and equipment.
However, here we are talking about a minigame. You know, a minigame like... Lockdown. If we take away the fact that currently it could just as well be called "Wolver Party", it's in fact a tactical team game. You know, like playing football: You can't win against a team all alone. You need a team yourself. That's why leavers and AFKlers are loathed so much: It makes your team weaker by a whole member. But what do i want to tell you with that?
Besides the fact that Lockdown is PVP, it's still a minigame like any other. Or it's marketed as one, at the very least. You can't win all alone in lockdown. Therefore, your point with "at least the chance to survive alone" doesn't need to apply on minigames. And all in all, they are minigames: They aren't mandatory for advancing in the game. Therefore they can also be alot more experimental that the rest of the game

Other point: "The game is designed to be possible alone with any kind of weapon, though not guaranteed survival or quick success." Alright, in this game mode, you are possible to play with any kind of weapon, though you aren't guaranteed any survival or success. Same story. Of course, you can play this game mode all alone, but as you are heavily limited in your versatility, it's like fighting with half a knight instead of a normal one. If we boil it down, you have 50% of the fire power of a default knight. You CAN play through this mode all alone, but that just requires some pretty impressive skill(or even more impressive UVs, you name it).
It's like the common question about how it's better to go in a 4-man-party even though the enemys grow in strength, too: I think enemys get stronger by 30% per knight more(it's for example-purposes, anyway), while your party gets 100% more power(one knight=100%).
Now, situation in this game: As you are basically reduced to 50% of a normal knight's combat abilitys, that means that, to an extend, enemys are twice as diffcult on solo. However, with at least one other knight, your versatility goes back up to that of a normal knight(weapon-wise, anyway). Sure, enemys got like 30% stronger, but at least the numbers are more even now( 100% vs 130% instead of 50% vs 100%). If you go as a trio, you nearly match the enemys boosts( 150% vs 160%) and if you go as a quartett, you finally outweight the enemys boosts( 200% vs 190% )... if you work together, anyway. Otherwise it's 50% vs 50% vs 50% vs 50% vs 190%
Of course, that's how I see it. Anyway. My point is that you CAN solo this game, it's just... well, it's like tying yourself on a rock. You simply double your difficulty by halving your attack abilitys. More party members can barely outweigth this disadvantage.

Sorry if it sounds snarky, 'cause that's not how it's supposed to sound. I just try to defend my point here with two points: "Minigames are not the main game, thus they can experiment more" and "You can solo it, but it's simply as favourable as tying yourself to a rock".

"Otherwise people would whine about their favorite equipment not working in certain areas. Imagine if specialized damage weapons did zero damage to resistant targets. That would not work with this game."
This mode wouldn't make specialized damage any less effective... you just wouldn't be able to effectively counter an enemy if he resists your only weapon. You CAN fight him... it's simply more difficult without another weapon with other damage type. It's like trying to tickle constructs with your favourite toothpick: It works, it just doesn't work well.

Also, I already read the text you linked me to, and I mostly share the opinion(oddly enough, the post-link is working well here again...)
And I'm STILL confused by the fact that noone bothers about this thread :P

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King Krogmo's Arcade Club