Spiral Knights - UV tickets

UV tickets

57 replies [Last post]

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 18:43

Grandtheftgnome

I want an actual answer. Although I know I wont get it.

Was this an oversight? Did you not think people would exploit this? Do you really not care as long as you get money?
We were supposed to get Compensation for having these bombs by [By definition: something given or received as an EQUIVALENT for services, debt, loss, injury, suffering, lack, etc.]. The isn't really what happened, while yes us RSS/ISB owners did get tickets, so did EVERYONE ELSE. Say someone spent 1,000,000 crowns rolling their RSS for that perfect CTR VH/Undead VH and used it religiously, then OOO snatches it up, something they paid for, and all they got in return was a 3 UV ticket (I fail to see how this is equivalent). While on the other hand a rather wealthy player who has never touched either bombs in their life gets an an announcement saying he will be rewarded with UV tickets for crystal bombs. So he goes and rage crafts 5,000 CE worth of them an hour before the reboot and gets his 100 tickets in the mail (What was his loss/injury? The 50ce he spent well knowing he would get a ticket. Thats called a willing exchange of goods, not a loss). How is this fair? I find this rather offensive. Why was this decided to be a good idea?

Note: I am not upset that people took advantage of this, I am upset that OOO let it happen.

I sincerely just want to know... Why?

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 18:52

Dorael

Gift

It was a gift, nothing more and nothing less. They can't compensate everyone equally because there's no way of knowing how much people invested in a particular bomb. It's not meant to be a reimbursement. Yeah, the UV ticket thing was kind of exploited and they probably shouldn't have mentioned it before the patch happened but it's not a big enough deal to really matter in the long run. The amount of theoretical money made/loss from it is a tiny blip in the big picture given how many people play and how much money must run through the economy over time.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 18:56

Little-Juances

There was an even easier solution to avoid it. Give only one ticket per bomb type. Why would anyone have more than one in normal conditions?

At most 4. An RSS, an ISB, and the lower versions for t2 LD.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:04

Wodanct

"kind of exploited" So Nj,

"kind of exploited" So Nj, Cootie, and other people as I hear about it only used millions of crowns just to kind of exploit it? No a person getting over 100 UV tickets should be a giant red alert but I forgot this is Three Rings.

Nj got over 200 UV tickets and if my friend in Unity is right then I can only guess that Cootie got even more. If I was Three Rings I would check all the players that got 15+ tickets and remove said tickets from them or give them a punishment, and I would even go as far as saying anyone with over 15 tickets need to have them all removed and a decent sized ban to show that things being abused like this aren't tolerated.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 18:57

Xylka-Mkii

All I can think right now is

All I can think right now is what will go down by tomorrow morning/midafternoon?

How will OOO respond by then? What can they do? Can they do anything?

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:02

Dorael

Nothing

Why would they need to do anything? Like I said, the amount of money save/loss/made/whatever is insignificant in the scope of an economy. You people act like a million or tens of millions of crowns is a lot. Yes, maybe it is to most individual players. But on the scale of a long term economy, it's not. It's barely a blip.

Really, this is just as bad as people who see the price of CE jump up and think it's one or two greedy rich individuals manipulating the market and not the work of an economy that is being driven by probably tens of thousands of players.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:09

Wodanct

So you think it is perfectly

So you think it is perfectly ok to abuse systems? That is the problem with some people these days.. they think it is ok to abuse things that aren't meant for them... Then you have Three Rings letting them do it while other game companies would be giving them all a punishment and possibly even a perma ban for doing something as rage crafting/buying a stock pile of crystal bombs from the Auction House for a bunch of free UV tickets 1 hour later when said players never actually used the bombs.

On a side note I am guessing other companies wouldn't of did it in this manner anyway.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:14

Dorael

Economics

Do you think that fair trade exists in an anonymous economy? Exploitation is the very nature of capitalism. It's the reason why I'm more in favor of a communistic economy than a capitalistic one in reality, but this is a game. Survival of the fittest in a game world is fine as long as it's not based on dishonesty (or more specifically, the exploitation of ignorance). My use of the word exploit earlier was in terms of taking advantage of something, not to mean that it was done so negatively. My apologies for forgetting that most people aren't able to view the word in any other light.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:23

Wodanct

My apologies for forgetting

My apologies for forgetting there are people out there that are so weak they need any advantage (allowed or exploited) they can get just to make themselves look good. Now, explain to me how crafting crystal bombs in the 90 minute period before the update happened for free UV tickets isn't being dishonest, or buying all the crystal bombs on the Auction House. I find it rather laughable there is actually people out there trying to defend people for doing this..

Don't get into real life politics on this. If you do than pretend Three Rings is the government and I am pretty sure any government would question it when you turned in 100 or even more crystal bombs when you only had knowledge for 90 minutes about the free UV tickets for the people that actually used the bombs.

"Hello, I am here to turn in my used crystal bombs for UV tickets! Ignore the fact that there is 100 of them that aren't bound and have no heat on them."

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:23

Dorael

Okay, so Wodanct you're

Okay, so Wodanct you're telling me if you saw a 5 star weapon with a 100 crown buyout on the AH right now you wouldn't try to buy it before someone else does and use/sell/whatever for win/profit?

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:31

#10

Ranzoh

That business can be iffy and

That business can be iffy and harder to find a larger pool of buyers. I've made some mistakes and lost some money just recently. And I think it's exaggerated that a 5* goes for 100k cr is most likely from an ultra rich person that doesn't need it, or if they found it. Regardless, I probably wouldn't do it. Cause it seems like when it doesn't sell when it's closing time, there's always this guilt that the buyer knows or something, so I don't want to put my eggs there. The tickets are way different though in my opinion cause it's just like the haze bomb event and prior to that when mats costed a lot and energy not a lot. Your profit rates are a landslide and are in more demand. People make 100kce+ out of it while spending for stuff they want and maintain that level.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:27

#11

Dorael

Not 100k

I didn't say 100k crowns. I said 100 crowns.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:40

#12

Goofio

I'm pretty amazed that this

I'm pretty amazed that this happened. It would have been more logical to give tickets for bombs acquired before the forum post was made, or perhaps one ticket per bomb type... There are probably mist crafters who received 1000 tickets or something.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:34

#13

Xylka-Mkii

There's a LOT they could have

There's a LOT they could have done.

Anyways They dont NEED to do anything, as the playerbase will get used to it over time as we do with EVERY update.
And on the other hand, both the players and OOO made some faulty moves (as expected) and now we have a bit of a ruined market and another bad impression left on OOO

So the least OOO can do is give us a sincere apology to both the dedicated bombers and to those fretting over the UV Ticket thing. The least WE can do as players is just tell them what went wrong, offer advice and feedback on what to do next time something like this comes up and in the end get into the new way of the game.

All I'm gonna do is hold onto those 2 tickets I got by making bombs 15 minutes before the patch, and probably go about my regular day.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:39

#14

Wodanct

A 5 star weapon on the

A 5 star weapon on the auction house for 100 crowns is not the same as producing 2 star bombs claiming you have used to them get free 1 UV tickets. The item on AH is the sellers mistake, this is people abusing a compensation for crystal bomb lines being changed by mass producing crystal bombs after the update is announced.

Let me tell you something. When Blast Network first came out last summer a guildmate in my guild got perma banned for using the energy revives because it was bugged and not taking the energy each revive. That is pale in the image of people turning in over 100 crystal bombs for free tickets.

Now if this kind of compensation ever comes up again everyone knows to abuse it.. but I do not believe Three Rings would be dumb enough to do it twice.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:51

#15

Dorael

@Wodanct

They actually aren't the same, but you missed what the analogy was countering. It was this: "My apologies for forgetting there are people out there that are so weak they need any advantage (allowed or exploited) they can get just to make themselves look good." My 5 star weapon for 100 crowns analogy was asking if you were any better than those people you detest so much.

As far as your friend goes: your friend was hurting someone else (the people he was playing against) by unfairly exploiting game mechanics. Getting around the use of energy is an exploitation of the mechanics and spirit of the game itself. Taking advantage of economics (getting things for cheap when events happen that make them cheap) is not on the same level. It is expected to take advantage of economic opportunities/blunders to maximize your profit. It is not expected to exploit game mechanics to your advantage.

This particular event in question (UV tickets) is a grey line because we don't actually know what Three Rings intended. My guess would be that they think it's a small gaffe purely because of how much everyone is freaking out over it but otherwise don't really care in terms of intentions or impact.

And it most definitely does not pale in comparison. The impact exploitation energy for gameplay purposes has on the game is much greater than a few thousand UV tickets versus the economy. I think people seriously do not understand the scope of the economy.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 21:12

#16

Pookycakes

Awww? I'm sowwy :(I got 574

Awww? I'm sowwy :(

I got 574 tickets but i paid for all my little bombs with real CE. I did nothing wrong there. :(

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PS: Also, to be perfectly honest now, you seriously seriously overestimated my wealth. 100 tickets really? I wish i had that...

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 21:13

#17

Evilnut

Even if there's no timestamp

Even if there's no timestamp on the shard bombs (so OOO can't tell which shard bombs are made for the UV ticket exploit), OOO you have backup for your databases right?

Get the last backup, compare the data and see who's rage crafting shard bombs to exploit your mistake. Remove such tickets in inventory and AH. For used tickets there may be no good way to track, so we have no choice but to let them pass.

Yes, that's a lot of data checking and patching OOO have to do. It's what OOO asked for with their stupid announcement.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 23:28

#18

Derpules

They should just have capped it at 1 per bomb type.

Would have made far more sense. But I congratulate the people who got hundreds of tickets out of it; they made the bet I was too cautious to make.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 23:39

#19

Dorael

@Guyinshinyarmour

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Wodanct: if you saw a 5 star item on the AH with a 100 (one hundred, one zero zero) crown buyout, would you try to buy it before someone else does? Why or why not?

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 00:02

#20

Guyinshinyarmour

If I needed it. If I didn't, it's unlikely I'd see it. And why buy something I do not need.

But your analogy is irrelevant anyway. This ticket issue has absolutely nothing to do with the individual resale of an item. No, this is blatant abuse of a sponsored program. It's the difference from buying some rare thing at a garage sale cheaply versus defrauding the government on a welfare loophole.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 00:09

#21

Evilnut

Guyinshinyarmour replied before I could. What he said is true.

Rage crafting shard bombs for tickets is like full 5* players using the Newbie Start-up Store. It's exploiting the good will and it's despicable.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 00:10

#22

Pookycakes

What I said was just faked

What I said was just faked innocent irony because i saw how much you or some people were raging about something that trivial.

In other words, even if i have nothing to justify to you, no I did not really craft 500 bombs, and no i did not even have a single hundred like u believed me to at least have.

And for those who really did craft hundreds of them, it's their CE and/or real money they used. The worst thing they can possibly do is temporarily sell variant tickets for cheaper than normal on the trade channel.

Look around you, 12 hours after the update, Haven 1's Auction House hasn't imploded in a spectacular fireworks rivaling Beijing 2008, the CE market hasn't Greeced up to 13.5 million crowns per 100 CE.

In fact, everything's back to normal.

Except that those heartless, snipe-mollesting, market-manipulating, morbidly wealthy players are happy making a profit, while their buyers are delighted to get UV tickets for cheaper than Punch and OOO smiles as the infamous source of all evil spent their gigantic stockpile of CE...

Everybody is happy.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 00:17

#23

Dorael

@Guyinshinyarmour

You're missing the point of my analogy. If you needed it, you'd take it. Your other option implies you wouldn't see it if you don't need it and thus wouldn't sell it for profit (but would if you did happen to see it). In either case, you're worse than the people you're bashing. Instead of abusing a "sponsored program" you're abusing someone's mistake that put an item worth several hundred thousand crowns for one hundred crowns. You are making them lose money via exploiting their mistake. Even if you use it for your own purposes without selling, you are still essentially robbing the person who put it up, regardless of how they got it, by getting it for way less than its value.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 00:19

#24

Evilnut

@Pookycakes

Then OOO should start selling UV tickets at those RSS prices. People would rush to sell their CE and get 3 UVs on each and every item they own.

Everybody is happy?

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 00:26

#25

Derpules

Don't blame the people who profited off this.

They didn't profit at your expense. If anything, as Cootie has pointed out, even those who didn't get tickets free can at least buy them more cheaply.

The only people who might lose out are merchants whose UVed items might, in the short run, be devalued. But thankfully it seems like the effect will be much more limited than I'd feared initially.

My take in general:

Did OOO make a good call here? Uh, no. It's a ridiculous set-up.

Is it unfair that some players, through a combination of being on at the right time, having lots of resources, and making the right bet on the interpretation of OOO's ambiguous email, made outlandish profits, whereas others got little or nothing? Sure.

Am I happy with the outcome? No (I got a paltry handful of tickets--still better than nothing, of course).

But there's no cause for anger at those who were lucky. Who wouldn't want free UV tickets--at no harm to others--given the chance? If you're among the unlucky, be angry at OOO for implementing this silly bonus distribution system.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 00:41

#26

Pookycakes

Oh hello irony. (and haloo

Oh hello irony. (and haloo Derpy)

With these 2 last posts I just realized that being among the owners of fancy or desirable UVs, "I" should have been among the ones complaining now...

And yet, I'm not rage-spawning earthquakes through 15 consecutive Havens because "OMG! Cheap-as-Poop!® UVs appeared everywhere!", yeah, no, I'm actually pretty happy really.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 00:55

#27

Evilnut

This UV rage crafting is no

This UV rage crafting is no doubt caused by a grave mistake from OOO. But there is no excuse to abuse it.

"Exploits and abuse of bugs
Do not abuse broken game mechanics! - Sometimes bugs or oversights in the game design may occur. An example would be a situation that allowed a knight to generate free money within the game. If a bug is found, you are expected to report it immediately and not take advantage of it. Exploiting, publicizing or encouraging others to exploit bugs, design oversights or other issues is not acceptable."

If it's OOO's intention for players to get cheap tickets, then I demand OOO to permanently change the price of UV tickets so *all* players, regardless of timezone, can fully enjoy it.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:03

#28

Pookycakes

Well these tickets were

Well these tickets were neither "bugs" nor "generated free money" as they were given out by OOO intentionally and were generated by currency-acquired items (Crowns and CE) rather than voodoo magic...

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:10

#29

Evilnut

People who rage craft gained

People who rage craft gained lots of much cheaper UV tickets that they can otherwise obtain.

It costs 20k to buy a ticket from punch.
It costs 4.2k to craft a bomb.

If that's not generating free money I don't know what is.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:22

#30

Dorael

Free lunch?

It's not generating free money... where exactly are the crowns it's generating? At what point are crowns or energy introduced into the system by this? Unless you can actually sell, to a vendor, or otherwise trade those tickets and turn them into crowns or energy that didn't come from another player, money is leaving the system via this, not entering it.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:26

#31

Derpules

From the PoV of the player

it is free money. I don't think Evilnut was speaking in terms of the whole economy.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:36

#32

Dorael

Money

Money is not money unless you can use it as money. I don't mean to be nit picky here but it is an incredibly important distinction that everyone needs to be aware of and make. It would be more appropriate to compare this to a deal/promotional than it would be free money.

When money enters a system, it can be used for virtually anything. These UV tickets can pretty much only be used to make UVs or sell (directly or indirectly) to other players, in which case it is akin to an investment.

People get all weird when it comes to the economic game and I don't really get where people make the distinction of what is or isn't acceptable. Let's say that Three Rings does some promotional that causes everyone to want silver keys. If I go and buy all the silver keys possible and somehow get like 90% of the Silver Keys in the economy (don't ask how, just assume with me for a moment) for use/resale/profit, does that make me greedy? Have I exploited/taken advantage of stuff? Hell yeah (to both). Is that against the spirit of the game? Is that fair economics?

I really don't get why people draw the line where they do.

As a side note, I've been avoiding replying to any of your (Derpules) posts for a reason. You kind of exemplify how I think people ought to be reacting to this and I had wanted to put off making an example out of you till later. You don't agree with how Three Rings handled things but you don't think it justifies the insane overdramatization that people are going (oh it's ruining the game, I know friends that are quitting over this, yadda yadda). You acknowledge people took advantage of it and wish you had too, and that's pretty much it. People who are saying that everyone should have gotten a fair chance at this really mean that they wanted to take more advantage of it but didn't/couldn't. That's what my earlier analogies boiled down to. Instead people demonize and vilify others for doing what they wished they could have.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:46

#33

Derpules

Again, from the PoV of players

the tickets are as good as money. Your corrections are absolutely correct as far as the system is concerned, but I'm not sure how that really relates to this thread. The OP is complaining about relative advantage between individuals, not the SK economy per se; for that, the distinction is unimportant.

Nor did the OP vilify the players who took advantage. Like me, s/he's upset with OOO for what is plainly a nonsensical decision.

TBH, I half-suspected I might rage-quit over this myself, but that was when I vastly over-estimated the impact this would have on the value of existing UVs (which I have plenty of).

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:48

#34

Pookycakes

@Evilnut

That's also sadly true for every single time-limited promos, discounted B/O featured auctions and so forth.

A combination of being here exactly at the right time and with enough luck to make the good call and have the necessary ressources available to make the most of the opportunity.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:54

#35

Dorael

@Derpules

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to imply anything about the OP themself. I was referring to some of the other posts I saw. I think only my first post in this thread was actually directed at the OP, if anything else I said was interpreted as directed at the OP then I apologize now and wish to correct that interpretation.

Our discussion about economics as a whole versus the individual falls back to one of my previous posts. The economic game is essentially about maximizing profits. That generally means taking full advantage of opportunities as they present themselves as much as possible. Barring exploitation (which typically involve money being generated/duped and thus entering the system), the more you gain the more someone else loses (even if merely in potential profit, which is the case here). Predicting the market, cornering the market, pretty much any play that involves economics, is about pressing an advantage and exploiting something to an extent. Otherwise, it's not really economic play but just hard work/grind.

Edit @Pookycakes: I am trying to make that very point about that being how economics works so hard that I might be in physical pain right now.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:59

#36

Derpules

@Pookycakes

Yeah, but that stuff is essentially arbitrary. "Right time, right place" is a fairly sensible way of distributing benefits when it comes to auctions, promos, etc.

But the stated intent behind this particular "event" was to give RSS fans some consolation for OOO butchering their bomb. How did OOO's implementation fulfil this intent? Poorly, or not at all. Why exactly should people who bought and/or crafted these bombs en masse minutes before the patch get bonuses which were supposed to soften the blow for RSS users who've actually lost something? (And yes, even capping the rewards at one per bomb type would have been somewhat illogical, but the lack of cap amplifies illogicality into absurdity.)

Gross mismatch between intent and implementation = mistake.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:58

#37

Pookycakes

About Dorael's POV

And the most surprising aspect is that nobody loses for this very specific opportunity.

Unlike for the Love Auras or Discounted Wub Puppy Costumes that i got and resold for 250 to 350% profit, or the Monster Pocket, Rose Items, the Party/Valkyrie/Waffle/ect stuff, this time, the opportunity will only generate resells that can only be profitable to everyone, even the buyer, and cannot possibly go over its original or regular price.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 01:59

#38

Evilnut

"People who are saying that

"People who are saying that everyone should have gotten a fair chance at this really mean that they wanted to take more advantage of it but didn't/couldn't."

You assumed too much.

The original intention of the tickets are quite clear - OOO changed a weapon you've been using, which involved using real money (aka CE), they figured you may not like the new item and thus provided a compensation. They could've refunded the recipe costs, but it seems OOO consider refunding CE (aka real money) a big taboo.

1. You have all the UV tickets already generated in the system, and it is likely that some of them are already used/traded. Without a rollback, getting rid of all of them in out of the question. Since rollback and reapply real money transaction is quite troublesome to do, it can be assumed OOO won't do it.

2. Punishing players rage crafting is possible, by comparing previous data backup. But it can be assumed the exploit is extremely widespread, and half of the blame lies on OOO. So it can also be assumed OOO won't wave the ban stick all around.

3. So the next best solution is to change the original intention - that UV tickets should be that cheap to get, if only for a time, like a promotional period. Give *everyone* the chance to get cheap UV tickets, at the price of crafting 2-4* of shard bombs.

If I have a choice I'd always choose 1 instead of 3.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:09

#39

Dorael

@Evilnut

Evilnut, would you take that 5* item off the AH for 100 crowns I mention earlier? This is probably an important question that someone on the other side ought to seriously consider in terms of how it impacts the position they want to take.

Also I want to point out that your suggestion of changing the price of UV tickets now would punish everyone who bought a UV ticket from a player who rage crafted (since they paid more for it, even if less than what Punch charges) while likewise benefiting the ragecrafters that sold tickets to other players.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:12

#40

Pookycakes

Even with number 3, there's

Even with number 3, there's no chance that "everyone" would get the chance to get it.

Then the player who missed it by a day or an hour would come back and complain the very same way some did here. Just like people would be sad they couldnt get the chance to :

- Get Beta-Rate crafting fee
- Get Non Binding 1* to 5* items
- Get 1st Gen Rose Promo
- Get discounted Wub Pup Costumes
- And every single small or major changes that have been made since...

(Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance for Beta rate crafting, non binding items, 1st Gen promo and so forth... But that still doesn't give me the right to demand that these opportunities are given to me again though even if i wish it did...)

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:16

#41

Derpules

Yup.

Simply put, it's too late to correct this decision. But I hope OOO does better next time.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:25

#42

Evilnut

Irrelevant. One is a mistake

Irrelevant.

One is a mistake made by a user, the same kind as not verifying carefully before pressing the Confirm button in trade. The other is an offer made by OOO to each and every player who suffered because of the change to an existing item.

Would you tell another player if he accidentally typed 10000ce instead of 1000ce and clicked confirm in a trade with you? I would, but that's also irrelevant to the topic.

I don't care about profits. I recently bought a Starter, Explorer and Battle pack. I have over 10k CE. I crafted a flourish ASI VH yesterday. I asked a friend what it's worth, he said 20k-30k CE. Instead of placing it in AH with no buy out, I sold it to the same friend at 20k ce, because we're buddies and in the past he gave me a flourish ASI med. That's how much I care about monetary value in this game.

What I care are fairness and principles. What OOO did is a GRAVE mistake causing damage that cannot be easily repaired.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:32

#43

Dorael

@Evilnut

I don't see how you can say it's irrelevant to take complete advantage of someone's obvious mistake yet claim that you care about fairness and principles.

Also, don't bring friends into an economic equation. I can just as easily argue that the worth/value of a friend can be given a fixed amount and the friendship you get/maintain is offset by any profit you chose to give up. That is irrelevant. The question is whether you'd do it for a stranger, that determines how much you care about money.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:36

#44

Aquillion

I completely agree with the

I completely agree with the standpoint of not begrudging the players who took advantage of the good but *naive* compensation attempt by OOO but rather why OOO was so blind too the implications of what they were doing.

However I don't see how you could compare a week long+ rose promo or a 24h+? valentine days sale too a 90minute window of opportunity due to a good but horribly executed method of compensation. Even beta-rate crafting/non-binding is a rash comparison as this also lasted a substantial amount of time before they were implemented and was fair game to all during this time.

Due to it not being a promo (rose) or a fundamental change in a game mechanic (crafting costs/unbind) that was phased in i find evil nuts idea has merit.

Yet like Derpules i don't see OOO taking any corrective action.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:41

#45

Pookycakes

@Evil

Damage being, everybody seems happy in haven right now...

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:42

#46

Evilnut

@Dorael

"Would you tell another player if he accidentally typed 10000ce instead of 1000ce and clicked confirm in a trade with you? I would, but that's also irrelevant to the topic. "

I said I would.

For the AH case it's not as easy, because you cannot find the player. You can't help the poor player even if you wanted to. That poor player may have already contacted a GM about it, and the transaction would be simply rolled back (I recall seeing such a case in the forums before).

I stated the examples because your question makes me think that you assume I'm asking for cheap UV tickets for personal gain. I already stated that I'd rather everything be rolled back.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:49

#47

Pookycakes

Having everything rolled back

Having everything rolled back would be as fair as retroactively making players pay the extra CE for their Beta-acquired items. (Just an example among others...)

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:50

#48

Dorael

@Evilnut

Well that's good for you then and I applaud your character. I don't think the economic game is for you though (at least not one fundamentally based on capitalism) nor any type of PvP game that involves someone else losing.

Note for clarification, because I have a feeling at this point I need to clarify, I'm not at all being sarcastic. I mean it, but I also think you're likely an exceptional case then. I would argue most people aren't like you.

As a side note: the trade analogy you made is slightly off for this example because it's not an anonymous one. You directly interact with someone else, you see them and they see you. Anonymity is actually somewhat important for this kind of economic system. I suspect in most cases, you get a different answer by asking if someone would take advantage of someone in this situation than in an AH one.

Learning from your mistakes and thriving is part of the excitement in a game that has some survival of the fittest tendencies to it.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 04:11

#49

Ranzoh

Dorael you're actually making

Dorael you're actually making capitalism's argument flawed when you say markets are perfect and clear and have perfect information. It's not a good distribution method when people have to be taken cared of and is not about who has the most money. Some conservatives teach that capitalism is suppose to benefit everyone, but it really doesn't. Bad unscrupulous business people don't get punished, and let's face it, this isn't really as complex as the real world.

My situation is, and I don't know why it isn't anyone else's with a lot of energy is, why didn't the people I asked around, didn't just answer a simple yes or no question. Specifically, whether there were unlimited tickets. It wasn't quite clear to me whether they just awarded one ticket per star level regardless of how many bombs people had. It's not like we're knowing what's the next hottest thing or what insider information there is. If OOO just awarded one ticket per tier level, then all those crafted bombs would've gone to waste. I just don't know why that is considered insider information. Plus, I had all of my CE reserved for another item. I just don't see how this is ingenious when nothing has been confirmed to me as a simple yes or no question. So I haven't learned from any "mistake", and it seems like no one else has learned from it either. They just used up all their CE regardless of the outcome.

F'ing aye, survival of the fittest? I don't think economists even use that term. Are you a moron for using a dated 19th century term and definition? Are you a determinist that believe people don't have choice and shouldn't be blamed for their choices? Conservatives and christians tend to believe in free will or compatibilism but it does so to justify them doing whatever the hell they want to others not like them. Economics is argued not to be a science either, but you acting like it's law makes it seem like it is. It's a controversial one involving choice and nothing is clearcut.

And to be honest about those UV tickets. Since I already have decent UVs, I would've gave some or a couple away to people I didn't know. I would just feel bad if they didn't use the opportunity to farm tickets, whether they were there and unsure or weren't there in time. I just don't need that many tickets, cause I don't plan on using the CE to purchase accessories in the future or whatever, and some steam games are available on consoles, and many good games aren't available on Steam anyway. Sorry to those selling them, just my opinion. I just don't like the fact that I have to pay people like that and do all the grinding on CE when I could've simply just got those tickets and items and traded them myself had I known that they were just simply unlimited, and the fact that they use guesswork and think there would be too much competition ruining their business so they refrain from saying that tickets were guaranteed to be unlimited.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 05:12

#50

Evilnut

Besides OOO's stupid move,

Besides OOO's stupid move, I'm also appalled at the community's reaction.

Did anyone, upon seeing the gigantic loophole, think of submitting a support request, so they can talk to a GM and alert OOO about it? For the time people to craft/bid hundreds of shard bombs, surely OOO could have stopped the patch in time.

Did OOO ignore that warning?

Or did everyone jump at the opportunity to exploit the system?

*shakes head*

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