"Griseolar, the only gun that had a comparable range was the sentenza and the argent peacemaker before their respective nerfs. There are no other guns that have the range of the RSS, this is something I didn't believe until I tried it and it's ridiculous. The fact that you haven't checked is bad, you should have tried it out before you made the claim in the first place that there was comparable distance for guns which of themselves are intended to be distance weapons. Last time I checked a bomb is supposed to be radial damage which affects multiple targets within close proximity. "

...can't tell if didn't read or ignorant. Nowhere did I say the old RSS had comparable range to a gun, I merely suggested that its range be nerfed so that it BECOMES comparable to a gun. FYI, I've been playing as a bomber since September last year, I've used the RSS extensively and I've seen many teammates using guns so yes, I am knowledgeable about their respective ranges.

Also, last time I checked a gun is supposed to just be firing bullets at the enemy, not shooting out mini-bombs or sticky bombs. ALSO, last time I checked, a sword is supposed to just cut the enemy, not conjure out magical explosions or sword manifestations.

"That's like saying that a sword should be doing an INSANE amount of damage at range which is frankly not the case. Any of those are only optimal at close range which is still it's intended use, I would never try standing at range to clip something with my swords range projectile because that is inane."

Again, can't tell if didn't read or ignorant. My list of comparisons between the weapons was just to show the options that people have should they choose to go pure gunner/swordsmen/bomber. Nowhere did I even mention the damage that they should be doing - who in the right mind would want to use a brandish purely for hitting that turret that is way over there? But at the very least, they >>have<< the option to hit something far away. Similarly, RSS gave bombers the option to hit something far away, and if you consider the time it takes to charge the bomb and plant it, even with max CTR, it really isn't as insane as you make it out to be, which brings me to my next point.

"The RSS was a 4* bomb doing 5* damage. The mechanic behind it's usage and it's unbalanced scale was because they HADN'T implemented a new 5* version of the bomb. I'm not a skolver clone, I dislike the idea of the use of cookiecutter builds but that is neither here nor there. What's wrong is that the bomb as a lower starred weapon was doing damage equal to and GREATER than 5* versions of bombs with a range EXCEEDING the guns range. And in no way does it fall into line that a bomb should be "single target" in a way that was absolutely ridiculous as the RSS was. This is a mechanic change and if the 5* version is so incredibly bad that the changes caught in testing weren't caught in live gameplay then it will be rectified. "

You already made the suggestion yourself that RSS had no 5* version in the past to justify why it was doing 5* damage. Yes, it had crazy range and damage, and again, simple solution: nerf damage and/or range, not butcher it entirely.

"But please don't try to justify a 4* doing 5* damage and then bemoaning how it doesn't stack up that a 4* is now doing 4* damage after the change."

I really don't understand why you keep bringing this point up. My entire previous post was about RSS giving bombers more gameplay options, with little to no detail on the damage it did. You also seriously need to stop making yourself look so far ahead and take a step back to see the more practical solution to this, which I have already mentioned repeatedly: nerf damage and/or range, simple as that.

Also, the Deadly Crystal Bomb, which undead are supposed to be weak against, is dealing comparable damage over time to a DBB when you factor in time taken for secondary shards to detonate and need for positioning. This is despite the former having max bonus VS undead, while the latter only had VH bonus VS undead. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there is something wrong when you can kill zombies equally fast with a DBB than with DCB. I won't be bemoaning if the 5* is now doing 5* damage, it's just that it's not even doing a decent amount of damage that a 5* should.

The people who gain from this update are those who muck around in forums and get the opportunity to ragecraft bombs and get truckloads of tickets.
Also those LD skolver zombies who cry when getting killed by RSS, RSS has a pattern and shards travel in a straight line, can't you run around and dodge?

Now a comparison: list of weapons that are obviously not doing its required duty, ie. bomb shooting polaris.
Applying the 'principle' of RSS is not 'bomb like' or whatever excuse is made to nerf RSS.

Swords:
Hot Edge, Searing Edge, Shocking Edge, Proto Sword, Static edge (2 explosions? Swords are meant to cut bamboo not summon some splashes)
Big Beast Basher, Beast Basher
Robo Wrecker, Rugged Robo Wrecker
Slime Slasher, Super Slime Slasher
All Brandish lines (5 giant explosions with 'shield bumping' ability? Thats not sword like at all.)
Wrench Wand (lol shooting a star? It travels far too)
Barbarous Thorn Blade (How many spike bullets?)
Warmaster Rocket Hammer (2 powerful bomb-like-explosions)
Winmillion (disks heh? I use it as a gun actually)
Gran Faust (Giant summoned strike, powerful enough to kill pretty much everything and of course get killed by walls :)
Divine Avenger (3 bullets, not as powerful as before but still powerful)

Guns:
Polaris, Supernova (shooting 3 bullets that magically turns into bombs, has knockback)
Biohazzard, Neutraliser (Sticky bomb? 10 of them killing any normal monster)

So OOO, are you gonna nerf them all? Change all sword charges into something like a slash? ARE YOU? REALLY?

"This shows that you think there is a comparable range? Or no? Because then you should rethink that statement."
Sarcasm, learn it.

"They cannot. The bullets do not travel as far as an RSS can on a screen set for maximum resolution. The only weapon that can do this from side view is the RSS. A close second being a polaris and that is only due to the explosive radius of the bullet after. Anything from below is a camera issue. You should tone down the insulting."
And I completely understood that. What I cannot understand is why you're all for RSS being changed entirely instead of going for the obvious. For the sake of not wanting to sound like a broken record, I'm not going to repeat it here.

"Bombs have a multitude of platforms for damage. Most players can play an all sword build but even with weapons that are capable of a longer distance attack you are severely limiting yourself. This applies to bombers as well as every other weapon exclusive build.
My problem is with the multitude of threads saying there was absolutely no issue with the bomb as it was. If it's single target usage than I disagree wholeheartedly with you. I do not believe there should be a bomb that can slam all that damage onto one target."
I do not believe that a gun should be able to slam all that damage onto one target too, and yet we have shotguns that can do that when fired at point-blank range (Blitz). What you believe =/= What should and should not be changed. I'm also quite amazed that you're so by-the-book for bombs being only immediate AoE damage, yet you turn a blind eye to the variations of swords or guns present.

"Damage of a type is overrun by overall damage bonuses. Nothing can be higher than maximum and the damage types are cumulative, this was tested on Leviathan blades and Cold Iron Vanquishers of which I tested myself. Comparing bonuses of damage and then lamenting the damage between the least comparable gap is silly. Most high end players are going to be wearing damage gear regardless but there should be more damage output for an elemental bomb in the form of dealing the monsters weakness damage type. That is a concession I can make."
Perhaps I should have clarified my statements a bit more. I went into FSC with 2 bomb damage trinkets, a DCB with undead med (thus giving max vs undead), and a DBB with no undead bonus (thus giving VH vs undead). I then noticed that killing zombies with DCB and DBB were pretty much equally easy, if not easier with DBB since I don't have to worry about positioning. Hence, if you remove all the damage bonuses from the equation, it becomes clear that DCB will then take longer to kill zombies with than with DBB, since it took max VS undead for it to be on par with a VH vs undead DBB. But at least we both agree that the damage for the elemental shard bomb should be buffed.

"You are saying that because they have a variant for doing a moderately small amount of damage at range justifies a bomb that can dump all of it's damage on one target is insane. The five star implementation as I stated before if IT IS completely unplayable they'll fix it. As it stands now the next time there is a patch they will tweak it. But to call it unplayable is a bit of a stretch."
Again, why are you so by-the-book? It's a variation of a bomb, similar to how there are variations of swords and guns. And I did not say it was unplayable - RSS, and all the other shard bombs, still has some use, but the damage they deal could do with some tweaking to make the effort to position them worth it. This does not mean I'm agreeing with the RSS change - my point still stands: there was no reason to change RSS's mechanic entirely.

"Also, try to keep your personal attacks over peoples intelligence to a minimum. I said your lack of testing the range of the weapons was bad. Not "ignorant"."
That's funny, nowhere did I accuse you of calling me ignorant...

Yes, the RSS was a 4* doing 5* damage. Does that mean OOO should go OH HEY GUYZ LETS TOTALLY SCREW WITH THE RSS AND MAKE IT WORTHLESS? No, absolutely not. They could have nerfed the damage, and then a made a 5* that had the old 4*s damage. Also, I do agree in a range nerf. When I first picked up a crystal bomb, I alsmost peed my pants seeing a shard go all the way across the ATH and activating a switch.

Also, this is really unfair what Nick has said :

"guns fire bullets, bombs create areas of damage, and swords do a mix of the two."

So, guns must fire bullets. That means it doesn't matter if it is AoE or DPS, as long as it shoots bullets. While bombs must be AoE...

"I'm no programmer, but sometimes it takes longer to fix a complicated problem."
Sure. Putting a limit of one ticket to avoid exploits and giving players a bomb that's something more than useless (yes, a bomb that hits even less than a gun and is slow as f- is useless) is something really hard, huh.

*tilts head* Martyr? Did somebody die? Excuse me, I need to go check the backyard for a spot for a hole.

~Newg

"I will not stand for this forum/game to be turned into another China/N.Korea, where the leader is all great and mighty and all who disagree will be silenced."
>OOO has not silenced any threads regarding the opposition of the bomb change. The only interference may have been a simple move to the suggestions. Many people who were undecided or optimistic about the new patch aren't fanboys/fangirls of OOO. They simply have similar opinions, if not the same opinions, and are merely expressing their ideas as well. If you seriously think of OOO in that way, of a dictatorship, then why even bother? Dictators don't stand for such intolerance and will have those who disagree be killed.

Also:
"1. The new shard bomb lines are severely underpowered."
>They're underpowered. So what do you do? You boost them. As stated in several (non-rage) threads, these new bombs just need tweaking in bomb radius, fuse time, damage, and other little bug fixes and such.

"3. Stun is a bugged status and you know it. Putting it on Radiant Sun Shard is adding insult to injury. When will you fix stun?
Reference: So... Stun is broken."
>This has already been commented on by OOO. It's a bug, and they're working on fixing it. Simple as that.

"5. Forum moderation.
A bunch of posters attempted to silence people they disagree with by spamming the forum with tons of trash threads, which is a clear violation of Terms of Service. There was no action taken (threads not moved nor combined) and no punishment. Is this okay for anyone to spam now or are you playing favorites?"
>Do you seriously think they spammed the forums to rid the forums of the posts regarding the RSS? No. What those posters wanted was a break from the hate that spread like wildfire after the bomb update (and is now still burning). Is it considered spam? That's subjective. Should they be punished? I personally don't think that they should be punished for making 1 thread each, talking about Spiral Knights and their love for it (and for some their hate for it). However, don't point fingers at those posters to say that the bomb threads haven't been recognized. They were doing their shenanigans, and it had nothing to do with you, but apparently it's become personal. Lastly, OOO doesn't play favorites, but are lenient (to a good extremity) in regards to the recent posts.

"After this extremely controversial patch, all we have heard from OOO are these:
Become a Hunter of the Wilds!
What do you think the next promo will be?"
>What do you expect them to say yet? There isn't much they can say without being approved. They don't want a slip-up, and I can't blame them for not posting yet. No matter what they say, it seems like nothing they say will matter anyways. It's not like people will change their minds suddenly.

How dare you sir or madam.

So why add stun to the new shard bombs if you are aware its completely bugged and a detriment to the player causing the stun? And its tricky to fix, i.e. at this point you are not sure how to fix it, or when it will be fixed? In light of all this, it is implausible that you'd add it to anyf new bombs. Thats like patching in bugs on purpose, no?

What am i missing here?

(i posted this in the stun thread, but felt it belonged here as well)

"A significant change such as this one is not something we take lightly. We will be taking measures to ensure that bomb users have a smooth transition over to these new bombs"

And i dont feel it was a smooth transition. It would have been a smooth transition had we the choice between the pierce and elem lines. So that people could keep their bomb for its crafted purpose.

edited it gwen. thanks for the clarification.

I read somewhere that it was added to more than just the one. But haven't logged on and played since the update. Still upset about it. (not the bomb style change....granted i liked the old one better. But the its taking my only elem bomb and making it pierce that has me the most upset. I would not have spent all that money on a vh ctr pierce bomb...i already have one in my DBB. now i am out a grand sum and any elem damage dealing bombs.)

I take offence at the China/N.Korea ref.

You could've just referenced the totalitarian society of '1984' by George Orwell.

I'm pretty sure the biggest government action taken by China against their own people was the One Child policy, and there's actually a lot of things about it that the media doesn't tell you.

Like that the UN actually asked them to do it.

Then backed out when China went overboard in an attempt to please, and just let the world slander them for inhumane acts. (Most of which, the inhumane acts, are in fact true, sadly.)

Or that the media released an image during some sort of Tibetan-Chinese conflict showing a truck moving to run over some injured Tibetans, which was actually an edited image of an Ambulance arriving at the scene.

Or that some Chinese students were bragging to each other about how much they were getting paid to riot against their own government. Who paid them I won't say, to avoid more racial-based tension.

I can't say anything about North Korea, not really hearing much from them. No joke intended.

There are plenty more things I could moan about, like people complaining about China's freedom/privacy, when (London I think? It's been a while) is supposed to have the largest amount of cameras watching the public. Or America's spy network. Or the fact that I don't really hear about Old-Columbia's policy against the educated, which was really, really bad.

I could moan, but I'd prefer not to. I'm not saying China is some completely misunderstood country and that they actually are a bunch of closest-to-perfect people; I'd be stupid to say that.

I just don't like it when people start pulling the race cards, because then punches start to fly, and personally, I'm sick of hearing the racial arguments on both ends. You don't have to approve, but things aren't always so 'terrible' as they may be made out to you by the media. The media, although widely listened to. Is NOT always wholly reliable.

My school's headmaster was called up for some issue with the school, and he sent a letter in response. The media made the school out to look really bad, when I learned, not from the headmaster, from other students, that the part of the letter shown was only a fragment, and that the rest of it made the fragment less offensive than it initially appeared.

...Great, now I've gone on a whole 'nother racial-based rant again.

Really, I just mean to say to not pull out racial based references, because most people only know what their national media tells them, and they don't always give you the full picture, or sometimes, even the picture that was taken to start with.

EDIT: I really, really don't mean to offend anybody with this post, and excuse me for the rant. I get quite annoyed at racial references, evidently.

"And btw, I am a Chinese. If you consider being called Chinese/Korean an insult, then it is YOU that insulted ME."

On a similar note, I am of Chinese decent myself, so forgive me for being a little confused as to why I would take offence at being called Chinese/Korean.

Likely, I am somewhat oversensitive over even slightly racial matters, so I took offence at the fact that you referenced a race in your...idk, anecdote? regarding matters of control from a 'governing party'.

The '50 cent party' thing is new to me, Thanks for informing me; it's nice to know.

"another light blub turns on in your mind and yell "racists"."

A light bulb doesn't so much turn on in my head and call out 'racist', more like I get a vibe off a racial reference saying 'ohboy'. In my experience, racial matters tend to escalate extremely quickly, so forgive me for likely overreacting. (For instance, approx 20% of the Koreans in my school despise Chinese specifically. You so much as talk to them, as long as you're Chinese, they call you stupid and whatever else comes to mind. For them, they don't need to know any more than the fact that you are Chinese.)

"then it is YOU that insulted ME."

It was not my intention to insult any poster, you or others, with my last post. I apologise if you felt like I was insulting you in any way.

... I CAN'T EVEN FREAKIN' SOLO IN A PVE LEVEL!!! ...

Why, OOO? WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!

WAAAAIIII?!

P.S.: You had better respond now, I never lose my dignity in a post unless I am extremely mad. Like, mad-mad. Mad.

EDIT: This thread is not about whether OOO is run by Asians. Stop your ranting.

I declare "Becs" the winner of this thread, he/she/they wrote the only message in this thread that made me laugh.

On a serious note, I very much dislike the new direction that the designers/devs/whoever took the RSS, and the problem won't be addressed immediately, because making changes takes time. However, the fact that the devs/designer?/whoever people didn't post feedback yet on such an issue gets to my nerves. Stuffing the Trojan under the carpet solves nothing!

ou may not be affected a single bit by these mess. You may even profited a ton by exploiting the UV tickets. But know this: OOO doesn't care about what the players think. When bad things happen they will just hide.

Or you can help OOO play ostrich, and one day find yourself getting the short end of the stick, and OOO will ignore you completely.

Propensity here :) i like it

+1 to Evilnut

Y'all are racist against ostriches. What have they done to you? That's also not how they hide.

What part of her slander am I misinterpreting?

The part where you're attempting to undermine his argument by attacking the insults instead of the points he brings up, in an attempt to defame him.
What's that called again?

These forums are becoming,

FORUMS.

Eteunde was right!