Spiral Knights - Music Discussion Thread. May the phrygian be with you. (This thread is scheduled to die when it leaves the front page.)

Music Discussion Thread. May the phrygian be with you. (This thread is scheduled to die when it leaves the front page.)

67 replies [Last post]

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 14:47

#51

Ramboguy

my favs

My favorite musical parts in the game are the ones at FSC and Gloaming Wildwoods.
the FSC i find it just.. amazing. i love that music! :)
The Gloaming Wildwoods are a bit more calm in a certain way but somehow bone chilling too like if you where being watched and that's kinda the point of it xD
i like the Icy levels too, but i cant remember quite well the Poison ones.. (shame on me)
and i like the Wolver Dens musics too i find those really well kinda enthusiastic :P

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 15:30

#52

Vluxor

@virtuewis

there is nothing negative about my post. i am the consumer and this is my opinion and i think it sucks. i actually dont care about the vocals and no not all of them have vocals.

i am going to judge this track right now. it seems like this is the one that everyone likes. i don't know.
spiral knights boss theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7thPVBnJRVc
more clearer track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmYq9JNOGdU

1. in general if the music is that great. i wouldn't be listening to random music from the radio or my playlist.

2. they used the same track for all the bosses. which doesn't fit for all boss. shouldn't the roarmulus twins have a mechanical version of the song, be more arcade like or something? doesn't that make more sense?

3. the music needs more mix and mastering. it doesn't sound like it is as clear as it should be. ex. the drums needs to be fixed and the main instrument can be made more clearer. like when he brings in the death bell into the track. it needs to be emphasized more instead of being covered up by the main sounds. it sounds kinda small or inferior compare to the main like the drum support unless the producer didn't intend on the emphasize and just stuck it in there to change the melody.

4. the producer might need to change the main instrument the organ if he cant get it clearer. infact, it doesnt even sound like an organ. it sounds like an organ mixed with a jamaica steel drum? whatever that guy did he needs to fix it or make his own sound with a synthesizer. if he did make his own sound, he needs to change it more. it doesnt sound right. sometimes the recorded samples in the sound library needs to be tweaked. not all of them are good enough.

5. there needs to be more change in the music. the music is too simple. if you haven't notice its the same throughout the whole track. We all know that game music is usually looped, but the guy didn't even bother adding more sections. the guy needs to build more layers or something.... he has another melody under the main, but add another melody under the main if he has to.

you can see how different these tracks are. even though these tracks may use the same melody, but the producers try to change it up. they continue to build more layers on top of each other and go back and forth to keep things interested. they make the music flourish. if one part of the music has to many layers, it means you have to take some out to keep with the continuity. some extra sound effects will help.

ex. 1
Ragnarok Online OST - Christmas in the 13th month (spooky halloween theme?) i never played this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh_TQWi-35A
same melody, but this track is always changing. they have the piano as the main instrument and the violin. first the violin, then piano, then together, then violin as support and piano as main, then solo piano, then together again. that is what makes some music balanced, unique and interesting.

ex. 2
yoko kanno - face on (even though this is for a movie, i am using this for an example and yes this is 1 person who composed. hans zimmer didnt even compose his own music. he has a team.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liYO3LPwlFk
this whole track plays the same melody mostly! if you listen to it, the person repeats the melody over and over again then slowly transitions from guitar to violin. at the 1 min mark it is the same notes over and over again for the rest of the track, but this person continues to build over that simple melody again and again with more layers so that it doesn't get boring. after a the peak of the song was reach where she could not add anymore layers. this is where she cuts it off.

and now i will stop because im getting lazy, but you should some understanding now.

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 17:18

#53

Jiker

@Vluxor & Virtuewis

This thread IS meant for subjective thoughts, because they are YOUR thoughts on the music. It's not limited to "shock is in the key of D minor" or "the piano does a trill here." Those are objective. Subjective is "I love this piece because..." or "I dislike this music a little because..." It makes it more interesting. Just don't ONLY go talking about music from another game. Comparison is fine

...Yes, I did change my mind. Humans can do that. Don't be racialist. :P

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 17:55

#54

Virtuewis

@ Jiker

Of course this thread is open to opinions, it's BASED on opinions!^^ I was just pointing out that opinions aren't very useful to a discussion if there are no details, reasons or explanations for them.

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 18:11

#55

Vluxor

@jiker

jiker: "This thread IS meant for subjective thoughts, because they are YOUR thoughts on the music. It's not limited to "shock is in the key of D minor" or "the piano does a trill here." "

i don't know what you are talking about. I didn't mention anything about d minor or the piano does a trill here. you said that lol. don't put words into my text out of no where. these are our opinion and i gave you my answer to your question. don't try and go troll us for something that you started.

my opinion: it sucks and can be done better

jiker: "So, my question to you would be: What is it specifically that you don't like about the music in SK? What, aesthetically, is holding it back from achieving what you think is achieved by those other soundtracks or songs?"

the answer: the answer is my post before. that is exactly why i disliked the music and why i think the music is lame. epic boss theme was not so epic and can be done better.

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 18:36

#56

Virtuewis

@ Vluxor

More bell? That sounds familiar.

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 18:45

#57

Jiker

@Vluxor

I was making up a scenario. I was mainly talking to virtuewis but now that I see what he meant, you may disregard that post.
And I did read your previous post before I made my post. So I was basically talking only to virtuewis because he said to keep your posts objective, and I was clearing up the matter.
And I will now recede from this conversation unless one of you speaks/types to me.
Have a nice day.

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 19:18

#58

Virtuewis

I think

that the music is just right as it is. Of course it would be great if there were MORE of it, per Vluxor's paradoxical request. However, there is no "right," or "better way" to compose, mix, engineer, master, etc. It is an ART.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 02:12

#59

Vluxor

actually for mixing and

actually for mixing and mastering. there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. i struggle with it and many musicians cant do it either. this portion of music is more of engineering stand point than art. you actually need to take courses, watch the professions and learn it aside from a regular music course. it takes years of training and proper equipment setup. when the professionals work on it. it takes hours. that is why these professionals get paid so well.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 03:33

#60

Paweu

Yeah, music for SK that was

Yeah, music for SK that was nominated for an award on GDC gotta be awful unlike music in S4 which was never nominated to anything. Yup.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 05:19

#61

Virtuewis

@ Vluxor

I actually studied audio production for 2 years, and have worked in studios for over a decade. Although you can think of it as "there's a right way to do it," you'd be kidding yourself to deny that many major, breakthrough engineers and producers have had wild success by doing it "the wrong way." I understand that there are standards and norms, but the music of SK is not flawed in any way by industry mixing/mastering standards. It doesn't deviate from the norms at all! The part that you were referring to: more bell sound, change the patches, etc are all "artistic" choices, not generic hardline rules that were broken. If there was a strict "what to do/ what not to do" ruleset, there'd be software that does it for free... and in fact there is... but it doesn't ride that fader like a human hand! And just like great drum loops don't always cut it vs. a skilled real drummer, a set of EQ guidelines, and compression presets aren't going to make the take and the mix come to life. Automation, panning, reverb, compression, blah blah are all "to taste." If you ever read the accounts of, or even talk to professional producers they will all agree that they all do it differently.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:54

#62

Vluxor

s4 league didnt even come out

s4 league didnt even come out in the united states.... thats kinda screwed up that you judge by awards lol. There was o2jam, guitar freak, pop n music, ddr, beatmania, djmax all before guitar hero and rock band. however, those games didnt win anything other than guitar hero and rock band. i am sure everyone knows why.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:27

#63

Virtuewis

Here's how I see it

SK > PaRappa the Rapper > all those. :P

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:08

#64

Jiker

Bwomp

Wed, 09/12/2012 - 15:38

#65

Jiker

I'm serious, one more bump and I shred this thread (lol rhyme) with my new silent nightblade.

Thu, 09/13/2012 - 16:36

#66

Michaelb

Actually, awesomely enough, I support this thread. And change that to "May the Dorian Be with You". Dorian's awesome.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 10:40

#67

Jiker

I will not bump this again. It shall die when it leaves the front page.

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Music Discussion Thread. May the phrygian be with you. (This thread is scheduled to die when it leaves the front page.)