Spiral Knights - Why do conservatives misuse the tinfoil hat term meant for them?

Why do conservatives misuse the tinfoil hat term meant for them?

30 replies [Last post]

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 19:14

Blodiah

It was a term invented for those that believed the government(thanks to Arthur Blair) was out to get them and corporations, and those that prefer the free market? How did gamers here confuse that with liberals when they invented the term? Is this like revenge from them or something? It's a word they use since they can't argue points that well. I told this seller Xairathan, that he was targeting the wares I was selling at a lower price like his Fire Max+Shock High for only 16kce vs mines for 10kce, but everything else was high on his list like Piercing Max 15kce(which he was able to sell) and Volcanic Scarf for 16kce minimum. This was in January yeah, but prices were getting to 6kce at that time. It's like he's trying to sell low against some people he has an attitude with, and high with everything else. I've even /z chat and asked if anyone wanted to buy the scarf at 16kce and got no answers. Even the Sprinkle Aura that he's selling was too high when some random guy told me he wanted that way before Xairathan set up the auction. I didn't mean any offense to him, but he took it as such too readily which is why he laughed and such before I got off on him. I was just telling him that the average person wants lower prices on goods that are obtainable at any time so if he wants to sell low on Fire Max+Shock High, then the volcanic scarf has to come down as well. The customer service here is really lagging behind all others.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/41530

Still, I told him that ce was harder to get for many who make up the supply and demand market, and that people only raise their ce prices back up when there is a promo to reduce the ce price, and the volcanic scarf wasn't a promo item, so its rarity does not change. Not even with tastes, because volcanic scarfs were still rare back then. But he still wouldn't believe me, said he wanted to get me a tinfoil hat. Funny too, after Xairathan ignored me, he was more talkative then ever, he never talks really, just sells stuff.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 19:49

Derpules

Oh, so this is just a "Player X sucks" thread.

Graveyard this now and save a mod the trouble.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 19:51

Xairathan

/shrug

Would like to clear this up with a few points.
-First, I'm a girl. Not a 'he'. Said this repeatedly.
-Did not ignore him. Although those in Haven 1 and 2 did have an enjoyable day as he raged to himself.
-Fire max +Shock High is worth at least 10kce IMO, I did 16k since mine's the only dual fire/shock out there at the moment; I never said that was the only price I was going for.
-I was selling the Volcanic Scarf. Kennys-Knight offered 15kce, and I took it. That was in ~April-May. That's about 4 months of a lack of Volcanic Scarves, thus increasing demand and thus increasing worth. Simple supply-demand.
-One does not simply yell "WTS [item here]" once in zone and get a response. Point stated.
-CE is currently up because (according to a thread I found) buyers are greater in number than sellers. It's relatively hard for someone (aka ONE person) to make the CE market go up OR down.

If anyone has a problem with the way I run my merchanting or my prices, they can take it up in person with me. I do request, however, that you DO maintain a polite decorum because I am probably going to get cynical on you otherwise.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 20:18

Blodiah

I am on ignored, I"m not on

I am on ignored, I"m not on your friends list now. I said he to offend you just like you're trying to do, like that was somehow sexist like you said. You said Fire Max was worth 10-12kce, and shock high 2-3 kce, which is why you priced it at such. Don't change your story. You've priced Piercing Max a bit too high. That is your personal value on it just like a poster at bazaar made a seller sell his Piercing Max for 7-8kce when they had monster nerf updates on beasts and such. It is not simple supply and demand. That only includes demand blips in the market. I was just offended at how you're making it tough for some people. You don't need to be an ass pricing a few things I'm also selling at a lower price, while everything else will remain higher than normal for you just because you want to get nothing out of it, even though you could get more since having multiple uvs is more than the sum of their parts and places a premium. You didn't have to respond in a way that you were offended like sellers would.

But whatever, you're not trying to root me out of competition(although your recent post attitude has soured like heck), but you sure are trying to target me to feel like I'm a rip off seller. All the other prices of goods that you can obtain at any time should come down too. They'd still be priced higher relative to others like Piercing Max, but they wouldn't be higher at 15kce than it was awhile ago.

By the way, why are you still confused on ce prices? Prices for some goods have went down tremendously compared to awhile back. That's why a few regular sellers I know increased their prices when the nemesis prize box promo came out since ce was more obtainable.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 20:21

Serell

i said he to offend to you..

Oh dear.
Should I start the popcorn? I dunno, I got school tomorrow, but this could get interesting.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 20:19

Derpules

Don't like the seller?

Then don't buy. If the seller's prices are too high, then she (in this case) won't sell anything. That's her problem, not yours. Get over it.

BTW, I'm curious about this claim: "I was just offended at how you're making it tough for some people."

1) Who is she making it tough for?
2) How is she making it tough for them?
(2(a) What exactly does "making it tough" even mean?)
3) Why is this offensive to you?

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 20:52

Blodiah

No, it's not that, it's just

No, it's not that, it's just that, the fire max+shock high coat was to do me in or trying to offend the price I last sold for just the fire, but whatever, I'm done arguing. Still, sellers, don't get offended if someone questions the price.

Making it tough = making other sellers less attractive to buy from, there fore less ce in their pockets, while selling goods they're looking for at a premium price = having to make up a lot of difference through grinding and such.

I'm not looking to buy the scarf, she doesn't have it. I just brought that up cause I thought she was trying to insult me by making statements such as those that I don't deserve the business or sales I get for my asking prices and that I have to work for my scarf.

Yeah the scarf is more rare than fire max, but we have to treat fire max as rare, even when it's not as rare, when we have many people who desires a particular uv. And based on that, UVs like that went for 10-12kce(even normal max, but they've all been less desired now). Yeah the scarf is more likely rare without getting any data on it like say number of trials and successes, but particular uvs can be rare as well, when people have been rolling, missing out, and searching. 16kce minimum for the scarf just seems way out there with the slow market at this point though.

But anyway, like I said, the 'competitive' pricing for just that one wolver line uv(and maybe flourish ctr high, but that's been followed by other sellers) probably wasn't intentional on her part, if it was bad timing, it sure was bad timing, just maybe, maybe it was.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 20:27

Derpules

Okay, please explain.

"the fire max+shock high coat was to do me in or trying to offend the price I last sold for just the fire"

What do you mean? I'm genuinely confused and curious.

"Making it tough = making other sellers less attractive to buy from, there fore less ce in their pockets, while selling goods they're looking for at a premium price = having to make up a lot of difference through grinding and such."

So she's selling stuff lower than what you're selling it for, and when you want to buy stuff, she wants more for it than you want to pay?

Sounds perfectly normal to me. If you're selling apples at $2 each, and I really want to sell my apples too, it's natural for me to drop my price to $1.80. Because I want the sales to go to me, not you. It's called competition.

As for asking higher prices than you want to pay, this is also perfectly natural. She might as well turn it around and complain that you're making things hard on her by offering less than she wants to get! Buyers want to minimise costs; sellers want to maximise profit. Hurr durr.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 20:38

Rangerwillx

I'm sorry. Derprules way is better then mine, but what I'm going to say is..
IDIOTIC FOOL, Y U SO IDIOTIC!?

Rage at me bro <3

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:00

Gzilla

/applaud rangerwillx

Umad bro?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPjUsu2-QMQ

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:01

#10

Touchmyfrag

>_>

You are mad that Xairathan's marketing is the same as every successful market IRL? Competition. Deal with it.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:24

#11

Blodiah

I know Derpules, let's get

I know Derpules, let's get past the general talking points of econ 101 here. I'm just thinking that Xaitharan has a psychological problem with me and wants to offend me by selling one item low. There aren't too many fire maxes on sale now that I'm aware of. I'm not selling stuff at the same time as she is. I just want to clarify that she posted her price after I sold one, she wasn't aware that I had another one. It's more than just economics but a personal vendetta of some sort. I also posted that I wanted a volcanic scarf in my topic. When I told her that the price of volcanic scarf shouldn't be high either, I assumed she laughed and gave a high price for it based on the possibility that she saw wtb message for the scarf, like she wanted to insult me by selling it high. I didn't know she sold one to Kennys-Knight 3 months ago for 15kce(I wouldn't really know that). This was after a few months before that when she said the scarf wasn't near 6kce. So that's pretty screwed up what she's stating two extreme prices there in a matter of a few months. There is no way to price this thing, as it doesn't come up in the market often, because people feel that they get more from rolling, with returns and all. But that still doesn't prove without data comparing the number of trials of getting a desired accessory like volcanic scarf vs a desired uv on any particular armor/weapon. Sure you have probability, but without data, it's almost like conjecture that won't support your case without statistics. Like I said before, the volcanic scarf is not like the sprinkle aura. But 16kce just for C/O seems like a bit much, since wolvers are lowering in price for most people.

Haha, how did they find out which knight I was as when talking to her? Maybe she sent in a complaint still after she was trying to get under my skin and get others to do so around her all of a sudden? I'm going to see you anyway in haven, so try to keep it civil now that you're overly chatty, alright? Otherwise, even ignoring you won't work, and I hope that I could take some action.

Anyways, frag, like I said, we weren't competing at the same time.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:32

#12

Gzilla

It's good business can we

It's good business can we just get that straight? As long as everybody makes some crowns or CE can't we all just be happy?

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:57

#13

Villainus

Sellers may sell at whatever price point.

I don't understand why you think xair is hurting your or any other sellers business, but I know she is a good merchant and knows the market. If you want to sell one item low that doesn't not mean all of your items must go lower. If a merchant prices an item too high or too low that is their problem not YOURS. As a seller you simply need to roll with the punches of an ever fluctuating market. Xair has a right to sell her volcanic scarf for a higher price than Smit did in January because there is no clear value for it due to supply and demand, and no one else has the same item. A high buy out on a piercing max wolver piece does not mean it won't go for market value. If the supply of an item rises then lowering its price is simply knowing the market and responding accordingly. Also, I would consider this to be an attack and I think that you are taking this a bit too far.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 23:28

#14

Blodiah

Oh yeah for the Piercing Max

Oh yeah for the Piercing Max Wolver Cap, I got that for 11kce like 4 days ago from a guy that asked for 15kce at first, so let's not be so firm on our prices here, and no one has asked him for like a week and a half or so about it til I did. Didn't even play at all really, so he could've probably waited. Let's also not let prices go in opposite directions. Also, I remember ce prices went "back" down to 5.5kce from 6.5kce after the cr bug fiasco during the Rose Regalia Redux event, and also, that was plenty of time for people in the accessories market to adjust their relative prices. Also, you said you knew the market when chatting in game, that I didn't know how to merchant, but I do not make such bold claims.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 23:16

#15

Derpules

Woah.

So, your concrete complaints are as follows:

1) You sold a Fire Max earlier. Now she is selling a Fire Max at a price lower (or was that higher? I'm still not clear) than yours was.
2) You wanted to buy a volc scarf for 6k. She said it was worth a lot more (which is totally true).
3) ???

Is that really all you're going on?

Your interpretation of everything she's done is borderline paranoid: your claims only make sense if one presumes she has a personal vendetta against you, but where's your evidence for that? I put it to you that it's far more likely that she's pricing her stuff as high as she thinks the market will bear, full-stop.

Not everything is about you.

Also, this takes the cake:

"like I said, we weren't competing at the same time."

OKay, so. . . what on earth does her price for the item even have to do with you? If hers is higher, so what? If it is lower, again, so what?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 01:44

#16

Villainus

Yup

I really tried to understand what you said here Blodiah but I can't. Do you mean that you are annoyed that she raised her prices according to the market? Why would you be offended that she rejected your offer of 6k ce on the volcanic scarf? That is a sellers right. I think we must come to the conclusion that you are highly paranoid.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 09:44

#17

Lightyourfire

There's a simple explanation to all of this

Jealousy mixed with Gluttony

Blodiah wants to sell his things but doesn't want to compete further with other successful merchants, such as Xair, because he is a greedy little (person). So he chooses to make a thread against Xair to try to make her business less successful, because he wants a successful business.

And another thing, Xair is one of the best merchants in SK. I haven't heard of you, ever, and I know tons of merchants. I even still remember some from over a year ago. You are practically a nobody, and from all of your posts, you seem to be an ignorant moron as well.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 10:03

#18

Thimol

-----

Help! Police! I'm being trolled!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 10:09

#19

Lightyourfire

THE TROLL POLICE CANNOT SAVE YOU NOW!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 10:21

#20

Sypsy

Talk about a stream of conciousness

For someone who passed econ 101, your english 101 proficiency is lacking.

I tried to understand you, OP, and your subsequent points, but, like Derpules and Villanus, I am thoroughly confused.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 10:51

#21

Doctorspacebar

Pretty sure the term 'tinfoil hat' has no political connotations

It refers to someone who thinks there's a conspiracy, as far as I know.

It could refer to a conservative or a liberal as long as they think there's a conspiracy.

And conservatives can argue points well. I should know, I am one. I'm frankly a little miffed that you think I can't.

Also, DOWN WITH SHOCK UVS! (This is coming from the Bomber in me, but... yeah, it's a little stupid that a guy with super-freakin'-conductive plate-mail could (in theory) walk into an electrified cloud without getting shocked.)

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:05

#22

Derpules

Irony

This thread demonstrates how perfectly the term "tinfoil hat" fits the OP. Well-chosen, Xairathan!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:48

#23

Yanos-Aldrin

heheh

I'd like to say it's another Apple VS Samsung but i cant draw any similarities other than the stage of this whole topic :p

from what I can gather it looks like person A doesn't agree with what price person B has on a certain Item. Well I can complain to Apple that their iPhones cost way too much money straight to their face but I don't think that will change their minds to how much they sell them for. Derpules laid out the basics of price structure, and complaining to the community at large isn't going to help you. If Xair thinks that volcanic scarf is worth 16kce or 100kce, that's up to her. The only person at risk is Xair, as the price defines whether the item moves off the market or not.

Think of Xair's Fire Max+Shock High for 10k as a special sale, and we all know sales come and go. If I walk into a Macy's in the middle of July and say I want this frying pan to be the same price as it was on black friday last year they're just going to look at me funny.

The reason why she suggested you get a tin-foil hat is the fact that you believe that she is trying to upset you by selling her items at a lower price than yours. Well I'm afraid that is a flimsy accusation as this is more of basic competition behavior, and why would Xair take a reduced profit or even a loss just to piss someone off...?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:31

#24

Xombie

"Why do conservatives misuse the tinfoil hat term meant for them? It was a term invented for those that believed the government(thanks to Arthur Blair) was out to get them and corporations, and those that prefer the free market?" - Blodiah

You are wrong, but thanks for playing.

The tin foil hat first appeared in a book called "The Tissue-Culture King" by Julian Huxley. The premise is that the metal foil will thwart attempts of others to read ones mind or exert mind control over another. In pop culture the term is used to describe paranoia.

That is all.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:17

#25

Derpules

@Yanos-Aldrin

Actually, based on subsequent posts, it seems the situation's even funnier: Xair is asking *more* for her item than Blodiah got for his. Which he already sold.

In other words, he's just mad that someone else might be able to turn a higher profit on the same item. This is somehow part of her plan to destroy/inconvenience/upset him. Makes sense!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:46

#26

Raspberry

suggest graveyarding this thread

Blodiah, naming and shaming threads are frowned upon in the forums. The forum moderators usually make those kinds of posts go poof if the posts are reported.

However, naming and shaming threads are usually about scam transactions or trolling another person. Your thread is neither shaming nor trolling of the intended target. Instead, your attempts at shaming your target in public is backfiring and shaming you instead. You are trolling your own self and don't even know it.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:55

#27

Yanos-Aldrin

@Derpules

Ooooooooooooooooooh..... Well Then!

brb... buying stock in Reynolds Wrap company....... xP

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:58

#28

Yanos-Aldrin

@Derpules

uh...... i really dont know why the forum double posted my previous comment. I can't make it go away either -_- does this actually happen on a regular basis?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 16:35

#29

Ubernerd

The OP's irony astounds me...

Wait, Xair has a bigger profit margin than I do? OMG she hates me and is taking my customers!!!1!one!1eleven! But what if it's not just me? What if she's out for EVERYONE?!?!? OHNOZ you guise! Grab your tinfoil hats while you still have control of your own minds!

See, OP? That (up there ^) is an appropriate use of tinfoil hats. I have no idea why you have to loosely tie politics to this discussion at all. It's very clearly about butthurt.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 16:50

#30

Spookington

This is why I love SK

Sorry if I'm not really contributing, but stuff like this makes browsing the SK forums fun.

Hoo boy, do I like me some idiotic drama.

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Why do conservatives misuse the tinfoil hat term meant for them?