Seriously, how do people never think of that? It could make the CE price drop like rocks thrown on a lake if done properly. Still, OP has a point...

What iron blast said. 90% is a hudge overstatement. That being said, I'd say the majority of players have spent more CE than they have bought like me). Though that's not technicaly 'free' or 'pay to play'.

Two problems with the CE market

First; sellers make way less listings than buyers. If you don't like the price, don't quickbuy.

Second; OOO makes notably more CE sinks than crown sinks, driving up the price apetheticaly

The second is more pressing, but the first is important.

"who said anything about quickbuying? These are the market prices."

Noone said anything about it, so I brought it up. Doh'. The reason CE is considered high is because few people ask for a lower price in-game. If everyone undercut the current offer by 2 or 3 crowns, the price would go down, or at least go up much slower.

The answer to a high CE price isn't 'just get people to buy more CE'. That rewards OOO for letting the market price stay high. If they get more money when the price is higher, they will make the price higher. Don't reward bad behavior. Letting OOO profit due to a problem only influences them to let the problem continue.

" OOO won't mess with the market, no matter how flawed its system is. so it's up to /us/ to stop [screwing] ourselves over."
That is BS.
OOO will make the market as flawed as possible, prevailing it gets more people to buy CE. Look at some of these fake 'crown sinks' they implimented to balance the price. PVP for instance. Do you think the amount of crowns sunk is even close to the amount of CE sunk on krogmo boosters? Heck no. And why do people get the boosters? Because thye don't like playing PVP that much, and just want the items. So by having people not like a part of the game, OOO gets them to spend more money. Amazing.

@Deltikon
Crafting with crowns? Nope. OOO isn't going to just flush its income down a greasy toilet.

If you could make things with less energy, that means you can make them with less money. If you can spend less money on the game, OOO's makes less profit.

Less required energy = less required money = lower money given to OOO

Either grind forever or pay to get what you want, that's what you're saying orangeo?

Precisely Deltikon... (So we meet again)

Spiral Knights is a product mind you, to encourage the player to buy CE. OOO is a company and wants/needs money, so you can't just expect them to throw away there cash cow. While it certainly is possible fo players to "complete" this game for free, it's obvious that you're supposed to be encouraged to pay.

As a side note, SK originally started out with just arcade mode, which doesn't make grinding so boring (became 5* via original arcade).

My dumb logic:

Techncially speaking, if you own something, dont you have the right to sell it at whatever price you want?
I paid real $$$ for that energy, I want to sell it for a fictious currency called crowns at 9001cr per 100ce, so what? Dont like it, find someone else.

How would you feel if.. a bunch of people started to protest and demand you sell them your whole house for a cookie and 2 crayons, just because they say so?

The only problem of current market are abuses, like walls of offers.

Wall of Text - Short version.. this game revolves around CE and someone spending money.

So many things in this game are focused to make players spend $$$. You can be totally free to play if you wish but it will cost you lots of time from your own life and goals.

3 - 4 - 5 star gear, Shadow Lairs, OCH, energy promotions, the high price of CE, the high price of good cosmetics and how Three Rings has started to limited how many they put up while the best ways to make crowns/ce without spending money have been completely routed from this game.

3/4/5 star gear. Your mist tank only allows up to 100 mist. How do you craft your gear? You give Three Rings money for CE or buy from the market, but every item above 2 star has been paid by someone to be made.

Shadow Lairs - 1800 ce per key just a one time use. Someone has placed $$$ into this game to fund that key. Whether you bought a ce package or bought 1800 ce from the CE market.. that CE came from someone's money.

OCH - $6 "DLC". It really isn't a DLC. The game downloads nothing. You just spend $6 to tell the server to give you access to OCH.

Energy Promotions - A way to bribe players to buy CE packages for chances for -free- items.

CE at 8000 crowns or higher? People would be more convinced to sell CE when it is 8000+ then they would if it was 3500 crowns like it was over a year ago.

Fancy rare cosmetics. Twilight Auras, Wolver Tails, Toupees? Either you spend your life farming FSC for the crowns or you throw money at Three Rings and sell CE.

Lockboxes/Mirrored Lockboxes - Every cosmetic on the AH (besides the ones sold in the bazaar and the ones Three Rings post) has came from someone's money. 750 ce for a key to open them.

The latest things I have seen on the Featured Auction House. Round Shades to start with.. last year Three Rings placed Divine and Volcanic Round Shades on the AH. 10 of each with a buy out of 195k. Now the Round Shades on the AH are put up but there is only one of each. What does this do? Promotes players to spend more crowns to get a single item then 10 players getting the item for 195k as how it was before. How do players get the needed crowns to outbid other players? Spend their life in FSC, get a very lucky UV roll, or throw money at Three Rings.

The new defeated knight interface? (well not really new anymore) - Revive NOW and battle on! Yes, spend your mist/ce and revive NOW instead of waiting for a teammate to revive you.

I enjoy playing SK, I wish the game would get content faster though, but I still enjoy my friends here. Maybe my friends are the reason I havent quit again. But.. some people truely do not understand how much $$$ flows into this game.

tl;dr

This game revolves around people spending money. I am not against f2p or p2p players, but nearly everything in this game promotes spending CE or throwing money at Three Rings in one form or another.

The price of being p2p. Throwing your money at Three Rings when you can.
The price of being f2p. Spending time from your life farming FSC, spending nearly a extra half a year to become T3, and then trying to farm all those crowns you want for your cosmetics or UVed gear.

This might be a f2p game, but this game takes it further then any other f2p I have played does.

Sometimes, I buy CE with crowns for no reason.

If you enjoy the game then you shouldn't mind grinding
If you don't enjoy the game then why are you playing?

To you, which resources are more valuable? CE or CR?

My guess: 95% or more of the answer would be CE.

Why is that? Because if CE is bought by real money and 95% of the people know the importance of money in real life. e.g. you want an iced coffee from McDonalds? You need $1.05, it's well understood. Second, I don't care how many good UV's you have on your gears, if you can't put them into use. The first point is self explanatory, so let's look at the second point in depth.

If you look at the three major crown sinks in this game: Punch (UV roll), Lockdown and featured auction. Lockdown entry fees is nothing. Featured auction is a niche (yes people bid on them but they are usually reserve for the upper class). So that leaves us with Punch, which is the most volatile but the effects are also the most well understood. e.g. get a ASI VH on your Levi? You can benefit from it immediately, but only if you have access to battle fields Right now, the only battle fields you can enter without using CE are training ground and Lockdown. i.e. to enjoy the benefit of CR heavily relies on the spending of CE.

The key here is to see why the demands for CR and CE are polarized. (Demands are defined as the desires of people.) Given the economic goods nature of CE (the more the better), demand of CE outweighs Demand of CR significantly. As a result, we will continue to see the price rising because we aren't at the equilibrium point yet. i.e. it will go higher and my prediction is that it would be way over 10k if nothing is being done.

Solution: let people buy mist tanks with CR. This way, people can rip the benefit of spending CR by relying less on the spending of CE.

Mr. Crownbags walks in and purchases 9001 mist tanks, then uses them to rage craft a bunch of things. Of course, if it were priced appropriately this might not be a problem. I don't see this happening though since OOO would potentially lose money from it.

Then stop playing the game for a while, until you feel like playing again. Personally, I don't mind the grinding at all, and I'm sure other players would agree with me. The game has a lot of playability to it. However, if you disagree, feel free to randomly insult me again

huh? Trollingyou Im confused now. can you please clarify? There's a player called Mr.Crownbags? just kidding that's not the question.
...then uses them to rage craft a bunch of things.
Mist energy gives 100ME at a Time. if you want to craft items higher that 2 stars your gonna need CE also.
and if the purpose is to get good UV's on 2* and make a crown sink. Anybody can do it. Think of the shard bomb UV ticket time.
can you please clarify? im getting confuzzled. (yea its a real word)

Actually, that mist tank thing could really work. I don't see any downsides, except a possible reduction in revenue for OOO...

Then it might work. Still potential loss in moneys for OOO, but there may be ways to work around that.

Has someone put this in suggestions yet? This is the only helpful CE suggestion I have ever seen

• buy from NPC. Mist tanks don't need to be full tank, they could be halved or quartered. Impose a daily limit on how many mist tanks can an account purchase;
• bundle with Punch. Every time you roll UV, you regenerate a bit of ME and the amount increases depending on how many UVs you roll. e.g. 1-UV regenerates 5, 2-UV regenerates 20, 3-UV regenerates 50;
• mist fountain inside Clockworks. Making Clockworks useful again.

So Nick, in return of me solving this problem for you. Can we have old RSS back please?

As far as Mist are concerned, every pass holder gains an extra 100 ME for every 22 hours. Only if you expense those 100 ME it would regenerate again.

So I don't think it matters. Yes, pass holders have a little head gain but that's because they bought with money. And they only gained the ME advantage if they actually use them every 22 hours.

If mist can be accumulated beyond the 100 limit, they probably should be exempted from mist tank purchase.

Woody makes a good wall of text. Now that all being said Deltikon, crafting is not what should be converted to crowns.

"If you enjoy the game then you shouldn't mind grinding
If you don't enjoy the game then why are you playing?"

Gah, don't make me defend Deltikon. Seriously though, that is the worst sort of argument point;

Say someone plays tha game and dosen't like some of it. You can say 'if you don't like it, don't play it'. Now say someone dosen't play the game and has an issue with it. You can say 'you don't play the game, so you shouldn't care'. All you will end up doing is saying that you shouldn't care about the games problems, either because you do play the game, or because you don't play the game. That's simply crazy, since someone either has to play the game, or not play the game.

"Have "Mist refill points" inside Clockworks, in which people would have to take a detour or do things harder way in order to get it. e.g. at the end of arena levels or danger rooms."

Just make it so the red boxes have a small chance to drop a mini mist tank, like the one in LD. Would be as probable as a weapon drop (though all special drops should be more probable).

oops

"Let the market drop, or you'll lose the free players - who, contrary to popular belief, are generally the most /important/ players in this game."
Gonna copy this quote from Hali.
IMO; Free players are more important as a bulk , but individualy they are less important.

QQ ce is too damn high # wearethe99% #occupyhaven