Spiral Knights - Three (Borderlands) inspired trinket ideas, one potential mechanics changer

Three (Borderlands) inspired trinket ideas, one potential mechanics changer

19 replies [Last post]

Thu, 10/18/2012 - 21:00

Arctifice

So after sinking a fair amount of my time in Borderlands 2 and coming back to SK for the Halloween promo (which looks great by the by), I've thought of a few trinkets that might add a layer of depth to gameplay, and possibly sidegrades to Krogmo machine trinkets.

For x Grim Sparks:
Name: Reaper's Relic
Function: Grants a universal Damage Bonus: Medium against enemies with 50% or more of their health remaining. Potential Bomb Damage Bonus: High against healthy enemies to give purpose to use over a Boom Module.

Icon appearance: Red circle with two semicircle eyes (like floating Phantoms) on a purple/black background.

Explanation: The Spiral Order, managing to box in a Graveyard Phantom, realized that carrying the cage near one's self granted the properties of a Phantom to the owner. Holding the inescapable box near you, the owner is empowered slightly with the Phantom's energy, granting a damage bonus against the healthy and living.

Purpose: Offensive, softening crowds of enemies for other fellow Knights to take down.

For x Grim Sparks:
Name: Emergency Protocol
Function: Grants Sword and Gun ASI: Med and Bomb CTR: High when shields are broken. Potential Movement Speed bonus in place or added on.

Icon appearance: Striped yellow and black rectangle on dark orange background

Explanation: A peculiar device that reroutes energy normally used to keep shields up to the owner's arms in the event that the shield breaks. Designed to keep Knights alive and fighting even when on the defensive.

Purpose: Defensive, lets players protect themselves while their shield recovers.

For x Primal Sparks:
Name: Tenacity Trinket
Function: Enables last stand on Knights (Mechanics changer!)

Think Second Wind if you've played Borderlands.

Icon appearance: Balled fist on green background

Explanation of Last Stand: When taking damage that would normally kill a Knight, instead, the Knight is rooted to the spot (though she can still move 360 degrees) and is given five seconds to kill an enemy. If a Knight is successful, she is revived with 25% of her health and repaired shield. If she is not, she enters normal "death" state and friends can still revive her. Each Last Stand activates only when there are health capsules in the belt slot, and entering Last Stand consumes one immediately. While in Last Stand, companions can walk over the downed Knight and revive her (by holding down the shield key for three seconds). If they are successful, the Knight is revived with 25% of her health and repaired shield. Each time you go down, your timer is reduced by one second, down to a minimum of one. Timer is reset upon reaching a terminal or subtown, or in Lockdown, after a match, much like energy revive costs.

Purpose: Improves survivability with less experienced or skilled players, and aids in preventing lag-related death. This one's the big gamechanger, and unlike the other two, can't be implemented with a few extra statements in the code.

Thoughts?

Thu, 10/18/2012 - 22:05

Luguiru

Them necklace-glove-ring-earplugs

The first is too obviously overpowered (bosses), not to mention we already deal a lot of damage, but the other two are funky enough to be possible.

The second is considerable, but since being able to shield to begin with is already a privilege (it has its own equipment slot while all weapons may be assigned to our multiple weapon slots) and again, we have a lot of offense ability already, it stands to reason this effect when your shield breaks should instead give +1 movement speed. Not two, not twenty, one. And you can only wear one at a time for an obvious reason. You can only break your one shield once at a time. Being able to get double the benefit from the same requirement would be like being able to charge a DAvenger and Combuster at the same time while the DAvenger is in your hands, then from the same time you took to charge it would also be charging the Combuster so you can switch to it after the DAvenger charge is released to use your other charge. Untradable, non-unbindable, obtained one time only similar to the expansion weapons; not that it should be part of an expansion, that would limit its availability significantly.

The third is very situational. If you died already, why should you get back up for free? Sure, we could help out new players by giving them the chance, but T1 enemies already deal low enough damage for them to survive unless they just stand in front of it and do absolutely nothing. Yes, people do that. I will never understand why. I also have something for this, though it probably goes against the whole getting a second chance part which takes from another thread giving the effect to enemies. When you die you are in an "imminent death" state for five seconds, during which any form of damage received will immediately kill you (or disable, whatever you want to call it) and have a -10 universal damage effect (if you rely a lot on Chaos/Skolver/Shadowsun/MadB/Bombastic/Krogmo damage trinkets/UVs, you are going to have a bad time) while in effect. There is no avoiding death, you will eventually die in a few seconds, but those few seconds with crippled damage are better than just being dead on the floor. Also, when/if you revive after receiving this state, that -10 universal damage sticks around for fifteen seconds after your revival. Not after someone tags you, fifteen seconds after you get up. This is to balance the distinct advantage of coming back from the dead instead of staying down. The effect would always trigger upon death while the trinket is equipped. I like your part about consuming a pill, but that would involve detouring punishment to something many players already find unneeded. The effect is a significant advantage, it has to be counterbalanced by something notably crippling.

After all that you deserve a treat.

Fri, 10/19/2012 - 14:46

Arctifice

Counterpoint

I intend to fill in the x Sparks with a number relative to the amount of effort similarly needed to acquire a Krogmo trinket.

It would be overpowered in whittling down the health of a boss, but on any given boss, one weapon or weapon type is used primarily and optimally to defeat it. Keep in mind that you trade off a specific Damage Bonus: Medium trinket for the Reaper Relic, and as it stands, unless you can efficiently damage a boss with multiple weapon types faster and harder than a single weapon user, then you have a valid point. Up until that, though, I again intend the use of this trinket for crowd softening.

The current model may be overpowered, but what you suggest sounds underpowered. +1 Movement speed for a limited time, situationally? And availability of one per person? I can agree with toning down the offensive bonuses, but keep in mind that faster attack speed is inherently defensive, and movement speed is anemic already (unless it was patched in the hiatus I was away) to warrant wasting an entire slot for it.

If a T1 player can somehow amass >200 Sparks (the minimum range I project) for a trinket and spend money on acquiring a trinket slot instead of higher tier armor, then there are priorities to be considered. The imminent death debuff is somewhat interesting, but feels impractical and only hindering in party play. Theoretical max amount of health with 1 Tenacity Trinket equipped would be Ancient Plate Set, Scarlet Shield, and single Penta, which equates to 28 hit points in T3: a T3 pill heals 12 points, while revival would leave you with 7. I intend this trinket for the careless and the soloist, who cannot react in time or is burdened by lag to make a last ditch effort and not burn energy to pick himself up. You, of course, can still consume the pill while holding a Tenacity Trinket, but again, that takes a second out of your time and leaves you open. I'm sure some time or another you were wounded fatally while consuming a pill (Shadow Lairs and Danger mission experiences), and this trinket provides a way to possibly avoid energy revival.

Sat, 10/20/2012 - 00:41

Derpules

@Luguiri

"The second is considerable, but since being able to shield to begin with is already a privilege (it has its own equipment slot while all weapons may be assigned to our multiple weapon slots) and again, we have a lot of offense ability already, it stands to reason this effect when your shield breaks should instead give +1 movement speed."

Just throwing in phrases like "since" and "it stands to reason" doesn't imbue a sentence with sense. Why does having its own equipment slot make a shield "a privilege"? What is the significance of something being "a privilege"? And how does any of this lead to the conclusion that the trinket should give +1 MS?

BTW, what makes you think your version would even be useful? It'd be the worst trinket ever, next to the sleep trinkets right now. No one would ever use it.

"If you died already, why should you get back up for free?"

Because you went out of your way to acquire a trink that would let you do that? You can already revive "for free" by travelling in a party. I don't see what's inherently wrong with providing an alternative non-energy-based method, provided it's adequately balanced. (For instance, by a significant health penalty all the time, and by the consumption of one health cap which the OP already mentioned.)

"have a -10 universal damage effect (if you rely a lot on Chaos/Skolver/Shadowsun/MadB/Bombastic/Krogmo damage trinkets/UVs, you are going to have a bad time)"

Nonsense. Anyone would have an equally bad time. The player who started with no damage bonus would get -10 overall while in this state; the player who started with +6 from trinks/UVs/etc. would get -4 overall. The second player is still better off.

"I like your part about consuming a pill, but that would involve detouring punishment to something many players already find unneeded."

Pretty sure the players who don't need health pills wouldn't dream of using this trinket anyway. They'd stick with one of the existing (and uber) DMG/CTR/ASI Med trinkets instead.

Sat, 10/20/2012 - 09:12

Darkbrady

Would have to agree that the

Would have to agree that the first one is OP as it is. However, what'd make it more interesting is to give it a penalty against enemies with less than half health. That way the player is forced to run around and chip away baddies with full health and avoid the ones with less. It also means for bosses that they'd bring them down fast, but then start being a lot less useful suddenly. Balance! Mind you, would probably have to be a (v)high bonus/penalty otherwise everyone would just stick to the perm med bonus trinkies~

Second one is cool, but too abusable. I'd just bring a swifty, get my perm asi:high bonus then break it (in all of two hits) for extra bonuses. I'd be essentially trading my shield slot for heaps of extra bonuses and asi:high. Waaay too easy to abuse, so just couldn't agree to that one unless there's some enormous downside (and not having a shield is not enough of a downside, as any experienced player can attest to, that running shieldless is more than possible...especially when you still actually HAVE your shield and are only breaking it when you choose to).

Third one isss....fun sounding, if a bit weird. I'm not sure I entirely understand your intention (I think you mean that after the original last heart rule, if you get hit once more (the killing blow) that then the trinky kicks in? Or do you mean to say it effectively replaces your normal last heart rule effect?) but the idea of getting a time to fight back would be cool. However this would be primarily a gunner effect, as swords and bombs would be very limited without being able to move. Also, 5 seconds of immunity seems a bit high...a lot can happen in five seconds and it often takes less than that to kill most things. Interesting idea, mind you.

Sat, 10/20/2012 - 09:46

Little-Juances

If the first one has a bonus at >50% health and a penalty at <50, it'll cancel itself.

Either the bonus should be one level higher than the penalty or activate the penalty at 30% while making the 30-50% gap neutral.

Sat, 10/20/2012 - 10:26

Darkbrady

It'll only cancel itself if

It'll only cancel itself if the mob happens to have exactly 50% hps (what're the odds of that happening?) in which case...who really cares?

Sat, 10/20/2012 - 13:53

Derpules

Not quite what he meant.

I think Little-Juances meant that if it gets an equal penalty/bonus, and the threshold both ways is 50%, then the trinket essentially confers no advantage. The bonus needs to be greater in magnitude than the penalty for it to be worthwhile.

Sat, 10/20/2012 - 14:04

Darkbrady

Well making it neutral in the

Well making it neutral in the middle grounds would be no different then. I figure the point of that would be, as the OP said, to allow someone highd amage easily (use that and get max damage and have somethin' else instead of skolver, for example) and just directs your focus to early, fast attacks on high healths and letting others clean up.
Not having the penalty, however, would just make it OP though, as there'd be no disadvantage to using it~

Sat, 10/20/2012 - 18:52

Arctifice

@Darkbrady

First, thanks for responding intelligently.

Including a higher advantage at the cost of a disadvantage later would help in party play, but be hindersome soloing or when you're expected to pick up the slack. I made it universal for the benefit of hybrid players, anything conferring a +high universally would be rather OP.

Legitimate strategy, but keep in mind you can't absorb shots or bump away enemies, and it lasts only for a bit. A fun bit, mind you. If you've played BL2 as a Law and Order melee Zer0, think of it like that, except for all the one shotting and health stealing.

The last heart strategy will still be set alongside using this trinket. Guns are handy for this trinket to pair with, but remember that gun damage in itself is rather anemic compared to sword swings.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 02:44

#10

Derpules

@Darkbrady

"Well making it neutral in the middle grounds would be no different then."

I think you're still misunderstanding Little-Juances' suggestion. He said: "activate the penalty at 30% while making the 30-50% gap neutral." That would break down like so:

Enemy HP >50%: Bonus.
Enemy HP = 30-50%: Neutral.
Enemy HP <30%: Penalty.

As you can see, that is quite different from simply applying the bonus at >50% and the penalty at <50%.

"Not having the penalty, however, would just make it OP though, as there'd be no disadvantage to using it~"

There's already no disadvantage to the existing ASI/CTR/DMG Med trinkets, other than their being weapon-restricted (which is not a diadvantage, just a condition for the bonus). I don't see why a simple universal damage Med trinket would need an additional disavdantage if it only worked on HP >50% enemies.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 11:55

#11

Darkbrady

Oh, I understood what he

Oh, I understood what he meant, I just find that having three levels of effectiveness would amount to little difference than just having the two levels.

Well, I did say that it'd probably have to be higher than med to be worth it, because if it was just med then everyone would just use their appropriate, perm med trinkies without any loss/disadvantage at <50%, but since it's higher than med it'd merit a disadvantage~

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 18:32

#12

Arctifice

Few more random ones

Grim Sparks:
Name: Ghostly Guardian
Function: Increased movement speed while shielding. Attacks that break your shield give your next attack +High damage.
Appearance: Standard shield silhouette with a skull as a crest.

Purpose: Defensively oriented trinket, lets users maneuver with their shields faster and more safely. Useful, probably, for bullet hell areas. The damage bonus after shield breaking may be removed if the movement speed in itself is satisfying, but the extra damage allows you to retaliate somewhat when your defense is shattered.

Explanation of mechanics: Shield craftsmen produced this tiny version of a Dread Skelly shield that appears to be inhabited by a tiny, extremely energetic ghost. Instead of simply advising you to block, it will actually help you with blocking, and gets even more fiery if your shield happens to break.

Forge Sparks:
Name: Shield booster Model 1340
Function: One of two:
1. When shield is broken, drops shield booster pickup (whether it behaves like a crown or vial pickup is yet to be determined) that instantly restores a user's shield to yellow health. Shield booster flies a short distance away from the user. The shield must recharge to blue between booster drops.
2. Chance to drop shield boosters upon killing enemies. -Shield regeneration rate.
Appearance: Shield icon with the Shock icon overlaid on top.
Purpose: Defensive, teamwork-oriented somewhat. The first version is meant to help a user recover from having their shield broken as quickly as possible, sacrificing offensive ability in the process. The shield booster flies a short distance so users don't simply gain a small extension to their shield life. The second one is more teamwork-oriented; you lose a lot of defensive capability, but you boost your teammate's overall defense, provided you stick together. Equipping two pops out two shield boosters at a time. You may only pick up one when your shield is broken.

Explanation: A mysterious mechanical device first created by a Gremlin named "Hyperion", this peculiar device appears to generate small packets of energy at random intervals that refill a user's shield. (If version 2) However, this device is not without its drawbacks, and simply using it will slowly sap away at a user's shields.

Primal Sparks:
Name: Savior's Spirit
Function: Faster weapon swap speed. When used with guns, the first bullet fired after swapping (take note) gains a +Med damage bonus.
Appearance: Two crossed Antiguas (if that level of detail is possible, otherwise two crossed generic guns). Or http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/borderlands-2/thumb/4/4... without the Berserker artwork.
Purpose: Promotes gun swapping, discourages standard gunning. This trinket is a straight upgrade if a user relies primarily on gun swapping, and marginally useful otherwise. The damage bonus transfers over to charge attacks, but only on the first shot that deals damage: Alchemer charges gain bonus damage on the big bullet, but not on the split off shots. Blitz charges and Blitz standard attacks only gain increased damage on the first needle.

Explanation: A fabled relic once held by an extremely short man who possessed an unnatural lust for guns. His abilities and desires are passed on to a user through this mysterious item.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 18:49

#13

Darkbrady

The latter is OP out the ass

The latter is OP out the ass for alch-switching gunners, especially in LD.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 18:54

#14

Luguiru

"Increased movement speed while shielding. Attacks that break your shield give your next attack +High damage."

"Increased movement speed while shielding."

Stop there. How much faster? Normal movement speed? Three fourths? That by itself is a pretty good bonus.

"1. When shield is broken, drops shield booster pickup (whether it behaves like a crown or vial pickup is yet to be determined) that instantly restores a user's shield to yellow health. Shield booster flies a short distance away from the user. The shield must recharge to blue between booster drops.
2. Chance to drop shield boosters upon killing enemies. -Shield regeneration rate."

Shield repair vial. There was a thread on it before, turns out your shield would normally repair before you would have the convenience to use it (while surrounded by enemies which broke your shield to begin with who will interrupt if you try to use the repair vial) making it redundant. Regardless, still supporting it for more utility vials over more rocks to throw.

"Faster weapon swap speed"

They supposedly made a patch to prevent abuse of that. Yes, abuse. As in not supposed to be doing. Shield bumping and cancelling were similarly unplanned, but those two are only useful if you know how to do it. Alchemers have a huge advantage with it because they lack the pre-shot delay most other guns have (Antiguas, Autoguns, Pulsars, Catalyzers). Instead of encouraging people to avoid reloading more than they already are, how about something that encourages using more of the clip? Weapon switching already happens almost instantly.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 22:09

#15

Arctifice

Clip based trinket suggestion

Based on the link you sent me, I figure I can reimplement this trinket and another skill in BL2.
Name: Savior's Spirit
Function: Initial -Low gun damage. Consecutively damaging an enemy with bullets in a clip from one gun will increase damage. Damage penalty only applies to the first shot, shots fired afterwards are buffed based on current gun damage. Two shot guns gain +High damage with every shot fired (first bullet does -Low, second does +High). Other handguns receive +Low for every shot. Shots have to be direct impacts, sorry Polaris users. Charge attacks inflict base penalty free damage.
Appearance: Two crossed Antiguas (if that level of detail is possible, otherwise two crossed generic guns). Or http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/borderlands-2/thumb/4/4... without the Berserker artwork.
Purpose: Offensive, finisher type trinket intended to synchronize well with Antigua lines and guns with high bullet velocities. Trinket is useful to turn the Antigua from a ranged damage utility to a more powerful finisher (gain up to +Ultra damage with Antiguas just by consecutively hitting shots).

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 02:28

#16

Toxicblade

Derp

What about not reloading your gun for an infinite bonus with the saviours spirit? If you fire a gun and leave at least one bullet unfired and then wait for the knight to lower the gun, you can fire again without reloading.

I just want a trinket that lets me gunzerk. It's all I want.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 02:46

#17

Derpules

Wut.

Toxicblade, you can do this already. Fire all but one bullet in the clip, pause, repeat. Try it.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 03:03

#18

Toxicblade

Derp

What? That's what I said derp. I meant that it could be abused by continually doing just that. I should have said it better.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 03:10

#19

Derpules

Herp.

I totally misread your post. Anyway, you raise a good point, but it could be dealt with by:

1) Only activating the buff after a reload, and
2) Resetting the damage bonus (plus removing the buff itself) after every X shots, where X is the gun's mag size.

So if you shot and paused, your buff would cease to activate until you reloaded again.

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Three (Borderlands) inspired trinket ideas, one potential mechanics changer