i just recently try to play this for real and now im 4 Star now
i need a to know which one is better : Acheron or GranFaust
i just recently try to play this for real and now im 4 Star now
i need a to know which one is better : Acheron or GranFaust
well i would use acheron cuz i dont want get curse
GF can only self-inflict on the charge, and even then it's not guaranteed to do so. The charge is pretty bleh and hardly worth using in a normal circumstance anyways (compared to teh DA charge, at least). The Acheron charge does blow it out of the water.
Then again, GF also has a much wider swing arc and hits a lot, lot harder. And the 2nd swing can still curse w/o self-inflicting.
This is a fairly frequently asked question. My opinion is here: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Jdavis/Swords#Shadow_Swords.
1) Do you like to charge or swing?
2) Would you like an effect in your charge?
3) How much speed do you take when it comes to swords?
4) Do you like charging from far distance?
5) Do you like going up to enemies and hit?
And Ill evaluate
...I would recommend getting Acheron first. GF is more expensive since it is a Clockworks-only recipe, has a pigslow charge that is extremely situational, and most stuff you will run into will die fast enough that the Curse ability won't be necessary. (Obvious exceptions are Lichen Colonies and the royal Jellies.) It does excel in PvP, but I presume that isn't of interest to you just yet, since you're just getting into the game and don't have full 5* equipment yet.
I prefer faust because curse. Don't listen to the badmouthers, it hardly ever curses you on charge, and CANT curse you on combo, but it can curse enemies
@Batabii: I have personally found that Gran Faust will always curse me at the worst possible moment when I use the charge. Not to mention that getting the recipe is a pain; you can either opt to pay up to 10k cr worth of surcharge on the recipe to get it from the AH, or take your luck with Basil in the clockworks.
Or maybe I just have terrible luck...
Meh, when I got it, there was no Hall of Heroes...
And I really only use the charge on large clusters of enemies, preferably when I have curse resist and a third weapon slot.
Boss items such as GF aren't available in the HoH.
I know. My point was that BOTH swords had to be found at basil, so it wasn't a big deciding factor.
I suggest the GF, due to its effective (even if its rare) curse effect. The only problem is timing your swings, if you miss time /aim your second swing you will leave your self vulnerable to monsters (or players, in lockdown). If you get the timing right (or get an ASI increase) you'll be killing those gremlins and jellies like you are papaya-ing them
If you are not used to using heavy swords, the Gran Faust will take quite a bit of getting used to. While on the other hand, if you are currently using a 3 hit sword like Calibur lines or Brandish line, you pretty much exactly know what the feel is.
Like people already mentioned Gran Faust is for a bit of defensive gameplay - swing and shield and keep repeating. It does knockback and keeps you safe while doing decent damage output. I have personally never used the charge in battle, so consider it almost useless anyway. .-.
Acheron comes in handy usually for it's charge attack, where it outshines the Gran Faust vastly in damage output.
Another two factors you might want to consider-
*You may or may not plan to play Lockdown once you hit 5* gear, but it is an essential part of the game, and you will end up playing it probably once you hit end game, and then a Gran Faust will pretty much turn into a necessity.
*Open places with plenty of space to run around, you can safely charge your Acheron and keep kiting with it, it will be a better option than GF. In places with lots of spikes or dangerous environmental hazards (read Party button arenas in Compound 42 and some other places), where kiting isn't really as good an option, Gran Faust's defensive hit-shield-repeat works really well.
One of the reasons I love the Gran Faust (and Sealed line) is the knockback. Great if you're backed up against a wall, also great if an enemy is about to attack and you need to get out of range. Not so great if you find yourself having to chase your target around the map because you keep hitting it away, which is actually easily countered if you practice what's described in the wiki as "lunging". There's a lot less clicking involved than if you were to use the Acheron normal attacks, and this is especially noticeable when completing combos to interrupt enemies.
That said, it really depends on how you like to play. If charge attacks are your thing, absolutely go for the Acheron. The chance to curse on the GF charge is honestly a minor niggle when compared to its ridiculous charge time and disproportionate damage, and you probably won't be using it very much. The GF does have an advantage in range, but since they improved the Brandish line, the charge attacks have been fantastic at crowd control. Angle a charge properly and you'll have far better range, reach and knockback than a GF normal attack, which is something I've started to be rather envious of. Great for Decon Zones. The damage output can also one-hit a good number of enemies, which is always useful if there are healers around.
From your introduction, it sounds like you don't have a shadow sword yet, so I'd go with the Nightblade line for the time being. Since you're 4*, you should be able to handle RJP runs, so 20 Tokens for a Sealed Sword is fairly attainable. Get one and try the feel out for yourself, and decide which one you want to make into a 5* afterward.
The acheron is better because can't inflict curse on one self.I have and acheron much better then the Grant Faust.
Um curse is not THAT debilitating or common on yourself. Just get a weapon slot upgrade and you'll usually have at least one weapon to fall back on. And curse totally murders enemy mobs in no time.
I tend to overuse the combo attack, but I think the damage + knockback makes up for the long cooldown.
I own a GFaust, but not a Archeron cuz i did my homework.
I like its reach. You have pretty safe distance from monsters and it sometimes inflict curse on a 2 swing combo.
Sometimes when i feel like being a d*uchbag to monsters, I equip Divine Set, CTR trinkies, and Gran Faust.
I spam that GF all day. and if i curse myself, no worries, my divine veil and mantle safely protects me from harming myself >:3 (gear has curse resistance.)
"Just get a weapon slot upgrade and you'll usually have at least one weapon to fall back on."
Usually? You mean "always"--the max number of weapons cursed is two.
"And curse totally murders enemy mobs in no time."
Yes, but no faster than just attacking them normally would, in my experience.
Nope, I sometimes manage to get all 4 weapons and vials cursed for a full minute when I use the charge while in Chaos. Fun times.
I was assuming 0 curse resist, not negative curse resist. I stand corrected re: "always".
I prefer faust because curse. Don't listen to the badmouthers, it hardly ever curses you on charge, and CANT curse you on combo, but it can curse enemies
I must be doing something wrong then. I get cursed a lot. That's why I've abandoned it entirely.
Um curse is not THAT debilitating or common on yourself. Just get a weapon slot upgrade and you'll usually have at least one weapon to fall back on. And curse totally murders enemy mobs in no time.
If you don't have that weapon slot upgrade, you have to run around like a headless chicken until it wears off.
I'd much rather cause the damage to the enemy, than wait for it to cause damage to me in order to damage itself... Plus, I've never actually seen Curse be of much use. Considering, I'm looking on how to attack, not how to make the enemy attack unsuccessfully.
_______
Regardless, it truly depends on your fighting style. Heavier weapons do more damage per swing, but limit mobility when attacking.
Lighter weapons deal less, but allow you shift around the enemy and cause a lot of damage quite quickly.
Aka, it's strength vs mobility.
guys, you KNOW you can attack them AND curse them at the same time, right?
If you think curse is no good, enable damage display. It does far more DPS than burn or shock. and you don't actually have to get HIT for it to work, masterofkings
Also @Canine-Vladmir not only did you censor that word stupidly, you didn't even spell it right. There's an E before the -bag
Small enemies die so quickly from good old damage that there is no point to curse. Curse becomes valuable only against big enemies such as giant lichens and the Royal Jelly, where it is very nice when it happens. The curse occurs rarely enough on GF that you can't plan your offense around it; you have to assume that it won't happen. It happens more often on the charge attack, but the charge attack is so slow that you're really sacrificing your raw damage when you use it.
Masterofkings presented the argument as strength vs. mobility. But Acheron's charge attack does at least as much raw damage as GF's (and takes only 2/3 as long). And, in regular attacks, Acheron's single-target DPS is much higher than GF's. The only ways I can see that GF is "stronger" than Acheron is in its damage per hit and its knockback. (Its swings are also wider and longer, but I don't see that as "stronger".)
"guys, you KNOW you can attack them AND curse them at the same time, right?"
Yes, but that would be stupid against normal enemies. In the time you spent charging, you could have been already attacking.
"If you think curse is no good, enable damage display. It does far more DPS than burn or shock."
And far less DPS, evened out, than you'd have got through using normal attacks during the charge period, sadly.
I have a GF CTR High and Curse Max + Low on multiple sets. I know what I'm talking about, too.
I never said charging.
I mean curse them, then keep hitting them, don't just ignore them. You can curse without charging. Better still, use the charge on large clusters. Or just stick with Faust if you really want to spam the charge attack.
Point is though, that you cannae rely on them being cursed. It's not like FoV where the inflict-chance is pretty high, the GF just doesnae get curses in that often; gotta take it mroe as a surprise bonus than a factor in whetehr or not you want to use the swprd
I used the strength vs mobility idea simply based on like for like. One swing from the GF will do more damage than a swing from the Acheron.
I prefer the Acheron as it's "mobility" allows you to attack more often, and thus, cause more damage.
The more defensive player, however, would hit, run away, hit again, run away again, and so forth. In that style, the GF wins, as it'll cause more damage in that time frame.
The more offensive player, like myself, will just look to land as many hits as possible without getting hit. The Acheron lets you do this quite well, while the GF is a poor choice, as it's slow attacks mean you can't attack very often.
If you think curse is no good, enable damage display.
Honestly, I hardly ever see cursed enemies. In the times I have, I've NEVER seen curse cause damage over time. Again, however, I haven't seen it often, and I haven't taken much notice.
Masterofkings, I mostly agree with you, but:
The more defensive player, however, would hit, run away, hit again, run away again, and so forth. In that style, the GF wins, as it'll cause more damage in that time frame.
If you have enough room to maneuver (as in a Deconstruction Zone, for example), then the really defensive player will use Acheron, because he will want to kite and charge. In my opinion, GF excels for defense in tight rooms, where you're trying to hold a position and you just need to keep slimes and gremlins at bay. I use it sometimes in Compound 42, the Shadow Royal Jelly Palace, and the Unknown Passage.
I don't think the speed is a huge issue because the two things weak to shadow, gremlin and slime, tend to move rather slowly. T3 Gremlin thwackers will tend to walk right into your sword. Bombers are the only real thing to worry about.
Jellies attack quite quickly, so leaving yourself vulnerable for too long against jellies can lead to a lot of damage.
Regardless, the choice depends more on fighting style, than the weapon itself.
In my experience, the only thing I have concern from jellies are their ranged attacks.
i read the thread and I can't decide which better so i craft 2 of em
thank for all tip and trick you all guy!
You can always craft a nightblade. It is a cheap price for the beginning of the crafting path
i read the thread and I can't decide which better so i craft 2 of em
Ultimately, that's what it comes down to. The only commonality between the two is that they're shadow-type damage. Shy of that, they're utterly different things, so it's hard to fairly compare the two, as you may use them for entirely different purposes or reasons, and that's not even bringing LD into the discussion...
Neither! :D An age old question people should learn to think about or search or check the wiki or read other posts before asking.
Acheron = fast sword, 3 swing combo, weaker hits. Deathy, explodey charge attack, no special tricks or benefits. Cool sheath graphic.
Gran Faust = slow sword, 2 swing combo, strong hits. Charge is pretty bleh and no more impressive than 4*, but can curse (and self-inflict). Can also rarely curse on the 2nd swing.
Which sounds better to you?