Spiral Knights - Mist Well Done~

Mist Well Done~

28 replies [Last post]

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 16:32

Darkbrady

This may just be me, but I think the Mist Well is just an ingenious mechanic and don't see any recognition for it anywhere in game or on the forums; no one really seems to be as impressed as I am about them!

It's a ce sink; get it out of game, get rid of ce inflation, great!
It "rewards" you and entices you into despositing ce with that 20% boost, but since it becomes mist, that 20% never creates inflation
It's a fantastic alternative to tabbing your guildmates without needing to be in runs, or even online
It encourages sharing and helping guildmates in a way that we never had before
It allows non-EP players to play more and keep better playtimes without needing to ask/beg for tabs or ce from other guildies, encouraging and allowing new and F2P players to advance at a far more steady rate
Because of the 20% bonus and 500 minimum, it means that any donation from EP/rich players can help far more nooblets than they would have been able to by directly tabbing/giving ce, but without actually costing them any extra
By human nature alone, wealthier players aren't likely to just PM all the noobs in the guild and go "hey, want some ce to fund a few runs?". They wait for requests or situations in which to tab. It's just not how people work. With the Mist Well, the wealthy players can simply toss some CE into the Well and have it taken by whomever needs it at the time, and are far more likely to be generous in such a way

Am I the only one that thinks this was just a really clever idea? I mean, most content updates for the past while have been aimed at end-gamers; SLs, DMs, expensive accessories, expensive GHs...
But the Mist Well is not only aimed at new players and encouraging playing more through that incredibly restrictive 100ME, but also specifically about veteran players helping out new players. I mean, vets don't have much reason to withdraw from the mist well, so the mist will sit there almost exclusively to help out new players.

Any update that's based around encouraging veterans to assist new players is a good one, in my books, especially when starting out in SK can be so challenging with mist limits and no ability to buy CE.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 16:41

Orbwanter

It's also a boon to people who'd otherwise ragecraft with CE.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:15

Spaghetti-Knight

>It's a ce sink; get it out of game, get rid of ce inflation

Great!

You say it like it's a good thing. :\

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:19

Darkbrady

You...want ce inflation?

You...want ce inflation? You'd rather that single people owned hundreds of thousands of CE, while the majority of players struggle to afford regular purchases of 100ce?

Encourage them to spend, to get rid of it, to share the wealth. Allowing people to keep a large portion of wealth only instils greed and inflation~

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:32

Psychodestroyer

I think he means the fact that a ce sink is more likely to drive UP the cr costs, due to CE being taken out of the market.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:33

Psychodestroyer

Dammit, DP.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:35

Cobalt-Spiral

Words of Wisdom :P

"Money is like manure. If you spread it around it does a lot of good. But if you pile it up in one place it stinks like h***. "
~Clint Murchison Jr.

That is exactly what this Mist Well is trying to do; spread the wealth around. It gets a +1 in my book.

- Cobalt-Spiral (Sir Blackington)
:)

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:37

Darkbrady

Well the people donating it

Well the people donating it will be able to afford it, since there's a minimum of 500. They won't just be donating pocket change of 25 ce here and there; they'll have enough surplus ce for them to make the decision to donate it; they won't be immediately buying more ce if this is the case.

And while there's arguably less ce to buy, there's also less demand to buy it for the very same reason. You won't have new players desperately trying to buy up ce to pay for runs, as they can eat up the mist from the mist well; and this lasts longer thanks to the 20% bonus.

Due to this, the only people that should be buying are people who need ce, without having the price bumped by people who just happen to need 50/60 for another run one after the other. Price shouldn't be negatively affected by supply drop if demand(+20%) drops as well~

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:37

Kwizzy

Except the money in the mist

Except the money in the mist well is not spreading it around, it's removing it completely.

Mist is worthless. CE is worth money. CE is required for many things ingame, even if you have full mist.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:40

Darkbrady

But it is spreading it

But it is spreading it around, just in a different form. Knights can take 100 ME from the well and use that instead of buying 100ce and increasing the price. They do this because a wealthier player has given them the energy to spare; that is very clearly spreading the energy around to anyone who needs it.

You're clearly getting mixed up with the individuals who have 250k ce and nothing to spend it on. Now at least they have the option of sharing it via the mist well and helping new players in their guild, which, by human nature, they're less likely to do without the Mist Well.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:42

#10

Thunderbog

I SCREAM BLOODY FUS RO DAH

"Mist is worthless."
"Mist is worthless."
"Mist is worthless."
"is worthless."
"worthless."

GET OUT OF MY HOUSE NOW, NO FSC RUNS FOR YE.

/e sniffs

Why would somebody say that to hurt the mist's feelings??!

/e cries in a corner

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 21:47

#11

Severage

@Darkbrady:

Yes, personally, it was something I certainly never thought of that OOO pioneered, like Upkeep which both are very clever on their part.

The only problem with it is one that I address in my V2 thread (Shameless self-advertising), which makes it difficult to use.

~Sev

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:03

#12

Darkbrady

I wouldnae oppose some sort

I wouldnae oppose some sort of restriction on it for such situations. Mind you, I find it depressing that restrictions would be needed on a feature that's designed to encourage players to give, share and help, and to think that people don't want to use it due to the recipients being greedy (refer to my ragethread...)

When people decide not to share because the person they're trying to share with will abuse it...well....shows how shameless some people are. It's a shame; the Mist Well is the perfect feature for giving, sharing and helping out the less wealthy. People should appreciate and respect what it actually means, and how much people can (and will) use it for that very purpose. Our guild is holding literally thousands of mist in the Well right now; I'd like to think that all guilds could do that without fear of it being wasted or abused by greed~

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:55

#13

Severage

@Darkbrady:

Yeah that'd be nice...

If you could pinpoint who is naughty and who's nice before donating CE to the Well, it wouldn't be a problem. But alas, the repercussions of someone who is willing to abuse it are virtually non-existent, as no high-ranking members would abuse it.

My guild does little fun contests for free stuff, but we don't really use the Well often. We can't regulate who can use it, or who can abuse it. We can regulate who gets the free stuff normally.

Also, we're not really a huge guild either. We probably have two or three CE Moguls in our midst, that are likely the only ones who are even capable, much less willing, to donate to the Well, lol.

~Sev

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:04

#14

Fehzor

Although I do recall seeing someone suggest a ce well like feature (which the forum regulars were angered by), the exact implementation is still impressive and for the most part original to OOO. So yes, +1 to OOO.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:32

#15

Schattentag

Fehzor, I'm fairly sure most (if not all) of those suggestions worked in the reverse. Perhaps what you're referring to was from before my time here.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:34

#16

Octavianrb

First let me say that I love

First let me say that I love the mist well, and am happy with the update in general, however it is still seriously flawed.

OOO needs to hire an economist. Anyone here ever heard of the tragedy of the commons? If not, Google it. It's basic economics. Potentially, everyone can win with the mist well if we were all generous and only pull out what we contributed. However, it doesn't work like that. It just ends up being a few people contributing and a lot of people free loading. You need to give us more options with the mist well. Let guild officers or masters put restrictions on its use/access. Also we should have the ability to create several different wells, rather than a single communal well that is accessed by all the wells in the hall. That way tight knit groups like officers or GM's that know they can trust each other can have an open free access well amongst themselves, and larger groups that are prone to free loading can have another well.

Great idea, but it needs some serious adjusting. As it stands now, the mist well will fail miserably in all but the most tight knit trusting guild. And no, it won't create more trust among guild members

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:33

#17

Kwizzy

"That way tight knit groups

"That way tight knit groups like officers or GM's that know they can trust each other can have an open free access well amongst themselves, and larger groups that are prone to free loading can have another well.|

I'm pretty sure I saw that (or something similar, like room gates) mentioned as possibly in development.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:12

#18

Darkbrady

Only problem is that officers

Only problem is that officers and GMs are more likely to be the people who donate the CE and therefore far less likely to ever actually withdraw from the Well; the Well is primed at being withdrawn from newer players who're likely to be members/recruits.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:28

#19

Abyssal-Flamberge

Notice how everybody's replies are in correct grammar?

NVM the header.

Finds mist in the air

Don't worry mist, I still love you.

Mist gives me 10 mist tanks

THANK YOU!

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:32

#20

Avixi

Can I sit down? The sky keeps swirling around.

We badly need the ability to set limits on mist allowance with three adjustable variables.

Member Rank : Not really required, but i think a lot of people would use this.
Allowance : To set how much they are allowed to withdraw. Minimum 100.
Reset duration : How often the above allowance resets. 6 hours, 12 hours, 1 day, 3 day, 1 week.

I suggest this because we have recruits drawing 750 mist in a record 24 hours, though i admit i was guilty of it one time when i proceeded to buy 6 slot upgrades with it. (My justification was that i put 1500ce in the day before).

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 02:05

#21

here is a

here is a link
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/68435

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 06:30

#22

Ninjaknightswoo

Sorry I didn't have time to

Sorry I didn't have time to read the whole thread but can I just point out that;
Most "pro" guilds hardly have any "new" players with them, most just have 70%+ of players who already do vana runs,
and so the poorer (dunno if this is a word lol) players and new players will usually be in guilds of their owns with hardly any vets or rich people in the guild that have actual spare ce to just throw it to the newbies, because people that just arrived at vana will hardly have 500CE to give away if they are completing their 5* vog sets...

But on the other hand I think that this encourages the pro guilds to accept more new players because if there are only pros in the guild they will hardly ever have use of the mist well anyways...

It can go both ways, only time will tell.

Edit: Added material after reading some posts:

quote from Kwizzy:

"Except the money in the mist well is not spreading it around, it's removing it completely.
Mist is worthless. CE is worth money. CE is required for many things ingame, even if you have full mist."

We can actually try to decrease the price of CE with this! How?

We can use it as a trade function for every guild, for example
A guild can say that to retrieve 100 mist from the well that you haven't put in your self, one must pay 5000 crowns, how would they do this? by donating the crowns to the guild to buy furniture/pay upkeeps.

GMs and Officers of guilds can keep track of this with the record books, and if someone hasn't paid the set amount that the guild agreed on they can go to the player and ask nicely or boot them from the guild.
It may take some work if you have a guild with tons of players, but if it works it can actually decrease the price of real CE! Not only will it decrease the amount of CE in the game but also the amount of crowns since it will be used for upkeeps/furniture. Now I don't think this will have a negative effect at all, we will just be shifting the demand and supply of CE so new players can get access to CE with ease. Its a win-win I think, let me know what you guys think or if anyone can phrase my idea better than me :)

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 06:27

#23

Darkbrady

@Redrum-Man: Fair point and

@Redrum-Man:
Fair point and you're far from wrong, however I don't think that this is true to an extreme enough degree to make the Wells pointless. Some larger guilds maybe won't accept anyone who would need to withdraw from the Wells, but I feel that more than enough large guilds do have at least a small portion of people who would benefit from it. Most of my guild has a vast surplus of ce, but even just for the handful of newer players we do have, I feel that the Well will be a great help to them, especially so since there are so many vets in the guild able and willing to make sure the Well keeps filled at all times~

Also, with smaller guilds who only have a handful of experienced players and want to donate to the Well for their noobly followers, don't forget that multiple knights can all chip in. You may only be able to hand in a minimum of 500, but that doesn't stop 5 separate knights chipping in 100 ce each by giving it to one person to donate~

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 13:22

#24

Purifier-Dragon

...

i don't think mist is worthless.

say if i wanted to craft a 5* item, but only had 700 ce.
then you turn it into mist, and voila! you can craft the item.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 18:06

#25

Severage

@Purifier:

lol, No you can't. You can only hold 100 mist.

~Sev

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 18:29

#26

Forum-Brady

He meant that 700ce+100me

He meant that 700ce+100me will craft a 5* item. He was just arguing that mist is equally as useful and valuable as ce, which I agree to. The fact that me is only yours doesn't make it less valuable; it's the exact same resource, you just can't sell it. I find that something's sale price alone is a very poor indicator as to its true value.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 18:37

#27

Ubernerd

@Brady

"then you turn it into mist, and voila! you can craft the item."

Actually, I think he did mean that you would convert the CE to ME.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 18:55

#28

Forum-Brady

Oh, well if that's the case

Oh, well if that's the case then I've no idea what he's thinkin'~

*shrug*

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Mist Well Done~