Guild Leaders: How do you manage your mist wells?
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 06:55
I'm the leader of a small guild with a mixed population; we have a core of old 5* officers and a membership of mostly 2* to early 4* players. Part of our mission is to help out the new folk with moneymaking and skill training, and to that end we bought ourselves a mist well. I love the idea of the well as a guild energy source, and so does the rest of the guild; the newbies get to run more and play on days they craft, and the officers don't have to wait for them to recharge to help them with their next run.
The management of the well, however, is a bit trickier. Our current system is a withdrawal fee: if you use the well, you pay a fine to the treasury. This helps pay the modest upkeep and makes the recruits feel like they're contributing. The problem is that donating to the treasury puts the money where it can't be used to buy more energy to refill the well. Sure, it will eventually be used to pay our upkeep, but frontloading those long-term costs isn't terribly helpful when the short-terms costs of well maintenance are still there. In theory, giving the fee to a designated energy-buyer would be possible, but it would require that person to be online all the time and would make theft very simple. The 500 CE donation minimum for the well, while understandable to prevent abuse by dungeon grinders, also makes it difficult for new folk to add CE directly to it.
I'm curious how other guild leaders are using and managing their wells. Hopefully I can learn from you to figure out how best to do it for my own guild. It would be helpful to include the way your wells are used (dungeon grinding, ragecrafting, etc) so we can compare the demands on our respective systems, as well.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 07:16
#2
.
Our current system is a withdrawal fee: if you use the well, you pay a fine to the treasury
I was about to say "Hey, that's how our guild does it" and then I was like "Owait o.O".
Fri, 11/23/2012 - 11:51
#3
Cooperstown, ND
Our guild hid a Mist Well with 500 CE inside and placed it in a publicly accessible area. We want to find out how people use it. Here are our findings so far:
- 1 guy used the well and left the guild;
- 1 guy used the well and pretended he didn't use the well;
- 1 guy we thought he would use the well, turns out didn't use it at all. When asked why, he said he knew someone deposited CE inside and it wasn't him.
UPDATE: this guy ended up confessed he used the Well and deposited 500 CE, after finding out the person he was stealing from is the same guy who ran out of mist when helping him with missions;
Moral of the story to Devs: learn about human nature before designing gaming mechanism for sharing resources.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 08:11
#4
@Eltia
remove your mist well or put it in a inaccessible area if you don't like the human nature. you can keep it for yourself.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 08:16
#5
Cooperstown, ND
In that same breath, why are we allowed to put a sharing resources in a publicly accessible space?
I can understand in reality, yes you can lay your wallet wide open in the middle of a street. It's stupid but doable.
But this is a game and the Devs are responsible for their own creation. So why is this broken mechanism being left in the game before release?
Before people jump into this discussion and suggest the gazillion number of ways to fix it (which would make this thread a suggestion thread and ends up in graveyard 2). Let's keep this thread to a "problem" thread so the Devs can see.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 08:50
#6
Insert at your own risk.
Insert at your own risk. Expect it will more than likely end up being taken. Much like Member's storage. We just decided to stop making a big deal about it since we can't control it. So players who really don't care will put in, and players will be grateful when there is mist in it. Though we do deal with those who clean out storage.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 09:37
#7
Designated CE buyer
I think your designated CE purchaser is the way to go. Make it your own alt, i assume that you log in regularly if you are in the guild. Be willing to front the initial lump sum of CE (or you and your officers pull together for the initial investment and you pay them back a percentage of the fee as it comes in).
So, if you have an alt that is accruing the fee's you can afford to proactively update the Mist well, and then recoup your fees when you log on with the purchasing alt. So long as you don't let the mail set there for 30 days and it defaults.
On one hand, you won't be able to proactively deposit a huge amount of CE at once, but this is good too. It will give you a chance to monitor the situation day to day or week to week to see how its going to work. To make sure that your guildmates are going to be honorable. If you can't be on often enough, and if you really trust your officers greatly, then the CE purchasing alt could be: [insertgildname]purchaser. Login: shared long in. And you and the officers could manage the CE purchaser as a committee.
Also,
You could implement a system by where the mistwell is blocked off by "furniture." And then have organized runs where you pair 1 officer/vet with 3 lower skilled players. Edit the guildhall to open the mist well. Let the members collect there mist. Edit to close the mist well. Then at the end of the run the 3 people who took mist give all of the runs profits too the Party Leader. (ideally they'd come out ahead, as it shouldn't take a full 100 mist for any run).
Err on the side of caution and over management to begin with. As you become more comfortable with how it works, and how many people will or will not abuse the system, you can make the GM/Officer control more lax as applicable.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 13:45
#8
Thanks!
Thanks for your responses! It's unfortunate to see how many wells end up disused or abused. We've had very good results so far (only had to kick one abuser), I wonder if it's just luck?
I would absolutely not make a designated CE buyer, because as a player I wouldn't trust that system. It'd be different if we only had long-running group where everyone knows each other very well, but we have newbies floating in and out as part of our mission, and I can't responsibly advocate giving away money for a long-term, invisible service with no systemic guarantee of that service actually happening. That's how these kids get scammed, and using a scam-like method to support our guild would leave a very sour taste in my mouth.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 14:43
#9
My guild decided to adopt a
My guild decided to adopt a few policies, since we actually announced it today we'll have to wait for feedback, but I have good hope it will be a success :
- no ragecrafting with the mist well (unless you are going to put your CE in it, but I guess no one is willing. Just no ragecrafting is easy to understand)
- mist well and treasury are 2 different things. Just because you put a lot of crowns doesn't mean it pays for your mist usage, since we can't put crowns from the treasury to the mist well. It simplifies a lot tracking and avoid the CE <=> Cr conversion ratio problem.
- as 500 CE is a bit steep for some guildies, lower amounts should be send to a trusted GM (we keep track of mist well usage) who will refill the well once donations exceed 500CE
- call out in private anyone who goes under -500 balance while being able to run FSC (we want to keep it cool for newcomers, unless they go overboard too). From the few cases, people just don't notice they went overboard or didn't thought about others putting energy in. Just talking it out may resolve the problem. If it doesn't, show the way out, you probably don't want that person in the guild. Be quick about those steps, before it degenerates.
Putting furnitures to block the well or removing it is in my opinion punishing the whole guild for the acts of a few people.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 15:52
#10
How EoS does it.
If you drop
How EoS does it.
If you drop in 500 CE you can use 600 Mist, no questions asked. If you use Mist without dropping in CE you need to contribute to the treasury, preferably crowns for upkeep. If you don't contribute anything expect to get talked to and then possibly (probably) kicked if you don't start paying back.
We're laid back and fun, but we still don't allow people to just ride for free so to speak.
~Gwen
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 16:01
#11
After an incident of new
After an incident of new members taking from our Wells after being told not to, as an experiment to see player morality; I decided to do a few things:
1. Block off the mist wells. No one can have access to them unless someone who can enter design mode opens them up.
2. Heavier evaluation of a player before recruiting. This also includes promotions. Don't just promote anyone. Make people earn it.
3. All deposits to the mist well go through me. CE is given to me to put into the well, this is to prevent possible swiping and exploitations.
Guild storage is also something that should be considered. Someone can easily nab everything once they hit 'Member' and leave, and you can't even stop e'em. Be sure to evaluate players before recruiting. This ALSO can include purchasing furniture using Treasury money. Make sure you know who you're recruiting and promoting.
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 18:01
#12
Well, my guild had 6000 mist
Well, my guild had 6000 mist at the start with the cliche get mist, give back in crowns policy
within 2 days, ONE 2* Recruit/Suspected mist alt used upped 5000 mist, then left, giving me and a few officers about thanking us for the free mist, and he would be on a 6 week vacation and going to another guild....
Moral: give Rank restricting doors already, PLEASE!!!!!
Thu, 11/22/2012 - 20:33
#13
My plan as a first week
My plan as a first week officer was to just tell people to stop putting CE in it and let it run dry, but it just wasn't happening. People would put in CE, and some people would draw upwards of 900 mist a day, and everyone else would be unhappy.
I just removed the wells, and it's saved us a lot of headache once i managed to get enough people to forget they exist.
Fri, 11/23/2012 - 10:13
#14
...
In Solo Art, we only use the Mist Wells when they are requested, managed, and authorized, or in situations like Guild Speed runs or something.
I'd love to be able to help the new guys out, but any one of them could just take it all for themselves. You never know with new 2* players that you recruit.
~Sev
Fri, 11/23/2012 - 10:25
#15
So sad
Well we had 2 minimum deposits in the well so far
What happened, in each of this deposits, some lower ranking guy took 200 of mist energy, and of course, with no ability to pay back, we were left to no choice but to stop the mist energy. I hope the wait for doors is worth not increasing 500 ce into 600 mist.
Fri, 11/23/2012 - 11:54
#16
Cooperstown, ND
From what I'm reading, it seems a pretty common scenario that someone who didn't deposit CE into the Well hitches a free ride. When confronted, they either confessed (and sometimes they compensate) or they just give the guild one of their fingers and run.
Devs hope you are reading this. This Mist Well isn't ready to be released and need to go back for more testing.
Fri, 11/23/2012 - 14:10
#17
@Eltia:
On a semi-related note...I has idea.
~Sev
Fri, 11/23/2012 - 14:11
#18
Hmm... I believe a lot of the
Hmm... I believe a lot of the problems coming from this mist well delimma is because noobs are... noobs. They are new to the game, and thus the mist wells, and don't always understand all the details of how it works. One would AT LEAST need a full understanding of how mist and crystal energy are applied. From there, it's all trial and error.
What each guild does to moderate its usage is up to their discretion, OOO has no say in the matter. I've encountered issues with people "abusing" the mist well, however abuse of it can be defined differently... apparently. We can find appropriate measures to take in order to prevent missuse of the well... it's just up to the guild to determine what's right and what's not.
Fri, 11/23/2012 - 14:14
#19
I'm dealing with it by...
not
I'm dealing with it by...
not getting one.
Fri, 11/23/2012 - 17:46
#20
...
Do you really want the type of player who would take advantage of a mist well in your guild?
We'd love to keep ours open, but we just can't restrict it. We have about 3k in there, but a recruit can just waltz in and use up all of it and we can't trust the honor system to stop them. It sucks because we have to block it off for everyone until OOO implements a way to limit it.