This topic is regarding to the charge of The anitgua lines, It shoots some bullets and sends out a huge bullet/ Falcon
That makes the enemies easily target us, Because we can't move while shooting the charge.
Remove the Bullets of the charge attack and only send out the Huge Bullet / Falcon
I believe this will increase the utility of the Silversix and Blackhawke Lines, And make them more useful for LD
How to make the Antigua lines better
I'm sure there are many threads about this, Though i haven't seen one :/
Haven't seen one of these in a while, but I still +1. All those little bullets make you even more vulnerable than a Callahan charge attack...and the Antigua is MEANT to be a mobile weapon.
~Sev
I think I have used a charged AP in Clockwork... once or twice?
And I bet it's even more useless in LD
+1 because LD players are not alone with this problem :D
I do have a friend or two who like to use their AP/Sent charges fairly regularly, but it is true that they only really use it for the big penetrating bullet at the end... It seems to be ideal to use when all of the enemies have been grouped up in one area (With vortex bombs, perhaps.) such that the final bullet can pass through the entire crowd without risking being attacked from the sides.
I honestly couldn't think of a particularly good way to use them in LD, though, so a change for more mobility would probably be best...
I've been using the Argent Peacemaker with Ultra ASI and Max CTR, and the charge is not only useable, it's extremely deadly to all those zombies in FSC.
While I admit the charge is pretty useless without any CTR, I'm afraid that if it only shot the bird, it would turn into another Blitz Needle; being used exclusively for it's charge attack.
If this does somehow get implemented, I hope they at least fix the bird so it doesn't die immediately if you're standing too close to a wall.
I was thinking you would suggest a piercing line for the Antigua, I mean theres an elemental and a shadow line, why ca't there be a piercing line.
why? WHy???? WHYYYYYYY???????? SOMEONE ANSWER ME!!!!!
I've been using the Argent Peacemaker with Ultra ASI and Max CTR, and the charge is not only useable, it's extremely deadly to all those zombies in FSC.
While I admit the charge is pretty useless without any CTR, I'm afraid that if it only shot the bird, it would turn into another Blitz Needle; being used exclusively for it's charge attack.
If this does somehow get implemented, I hope they at least fix the bird so it doesn't die immediately if you're standing too close to a wall.
So, you're giving this thread a -1 because you have Max! CTR, and you think anyone who uses it shouold have Max! CTR. Sounds like a great reason.
But no, it would not turn into another Blitz Needle. Blitz is extremely deadly and causes virtually no kickback. The Eagle causes a huge amount of kickback, more similar to a Divine Avenger. Also, Blitz's charge is FAR more powerful than the Eagle at the end of the charge attack. The Eagle does some ~700 damage on a single large target. That's more like 1/4 of a Blitz full charge.
Imagine if you were using a Divine Avenger, and the charge instead of what it is now, makes you do a full combo without letting you move at all, and then shoot 1, not 3, projectiles. That's exactly how useless AP's charge attack is.
~Sev
You could give out better answers than the creator of the thread.
You could give out better answers than the creator of the thread.
i never use AP charge, because i think the regular shots are already great. I mean, who uses pulsar charge attacks? I wont go with either side right now, but maybe i'll change my mind later
Don't use the charge at all for the Argent Peacemaker. Just go with a blitz because it have full piercing.
Well Polaris is also a poor weapon of choice in PvE as well. Its supreme abilities in PvP are the only reasons it's used.
Also, nobody said that this would make the charge attack powerful. The Eagle really isn't overpowered at all, unlike comparable weapons like the Blitz. The only thing this would do is make the AP what it was designed to do - be mobile.
~Sev
Yeah I'm making a A.P. soon and I want a useful and stylish charge too. :c
@Steadyeyes
Not necessary there's already a Blitz Needle and Callahan for that. :/
@Laraso
Lol Sev cleared it all up.
Quotefanboy quote from another relevant thread:
"That being said I still agree with this. All they need to do is buff the birds damage by 25-60% to make it up to par to the damage it has now, while still making it completely useful. Only shooting the bird would make this the perfect "Get the heck away from me" charge, while still doing great damage."
I agree the bird needs a buff of some sort if they do end up going along with this suggestion.
Well, let me rephrase. Being mobile and all, that's that, but(pure opinion) I hate charge spammers(except bombs). If you had Max CTR on the new charge, it would just start being OP. However, im stikk +1 on subject, simply cuz I, too, think the small bullets are near useless
I'm sure, if you really wanted to, you could make a complicated thread about completely altering the AP's charge attack in a balanced yet mobile way.
However, the charge firing only the Eagle takes a ton less time for OOO, a ton less time for us, and is more or less balanced due to the fact the Eagle isn't really that potent.
In all fairness, if you have Max! CTR on almost anything, you're likely to only use charge attacks. Think about it - all the lines of brandishes...all the autogun lines...alchemers have some real AoE damage charges...even punch guns have a mean charge attack if you know how to use it. Only items that have broken charges in comparison like Cutters are much less useful.
Case and point, this change would be the least of OOO's balancing worries in terms of charge attacks. Especially if they didn't buff the Eagle's damage at all.
There are also counter-measures they could take, like increasing the charge time if they felt it was necessary. I for one, don't, but it's not hard to fix if it ever is OP.
@Msaad: Ha..
~Sev
I hope during the Christmas update, They'll do something about this :D
I dont think so. Judging how many times OOO has listened to player suggestions...unlikely. PULSAR LINE IS MY FAV. IT BLOWS UP.
I dont think so. Judging how many times OOO has listened to player suggestions...unlikely. PULSAR LINE IS MY FAV. IT BLOWS UP.
No, my max CTR is not the reason why I disagree with this suggestion. I was merely mentioning a way that someone could make it usable.
I disagree with this suggestion because no matter what way I look at it, all I can imagine is people using the charge constantly and not shooting the normal bullets if this were to be implemented.
That is all.
I was merely mentioning a way that someone could make it usable.
So...you just admitted that without max CTR it's not usable. Well thanks for supporting the suggestion, I guess.
Nobody will only use the charge on AP 100% of the time. Why? Because AP is built to be one of the fastest, most mobile, and safest guns that exist. Using charge only would be pointless for multiple reasons.
1: Blitz Needle will ALWAYS outdamage other guns in PvE as far as charge attacks (Unless OOO changes it of course).
2: Nobody will trade AP's mobility solely for charge attacks, because if they wanted to do charge attacks, they'd use a Blitz needle.
3: Normal bullets probably do better DPS than the Charge (CTR Variable), unless you're attacking a horde of enemies. The Eagle does around 4 bullets' worth of damage if you're attacking 1 target. There's absolutely no reason to only attack one target with the charge.
On two targets, the Eagle would do 8 bullets' worth, but guess what? AP can hit two targets at a time with regular bullets, so with normal bullets even on two targets you could get 12 bullets in by the time Eagle does 8 bullets of damage.
Furthermore, the Eagle has a ton of knockback that will ultimately lower DPS across the board because it's designed to get enemies away from you, not be a huge damage dealer. Only on groups of enemies of over 5+ would it even be optimal to use the Eagle, and that's only if they're all stuck together.
So now you have like 4 ways to look at it where people will not only use the charge attacks. You're welcome.
~Sev
@Laraso
Everyone isn't lucky or rich enough to actually get C.T.R. V.H. Thing is do you see many people spamming Divine Avengers charge in Lockdown or the Clockworks? I don't see it much unless I'm on an Firestorm Citadel run... That's just about the only place people ever use it... Even me. ._.
So just tell me how you disagree with this on a real note instead whatever you're typing now. Considering "I disagree with this suggestion because no matter what way I look at it, all I can imagine is people using the charge constantly and not shooting the normal bullets if this were to be implemented.", is a horrible reason be more specific. Do you think the charge would be overpowered? Do you dislike the sight of it? What's wrong about people enjoying new content? I don't see anything wrong with it. Like I was saying in the past Divine Avengers charge isn't used much. It technically shoots 3 of those things but re-skinned... Think of what would be better for everyone not just yourself. Not everyone has C.T.R.
Anyway your comments are extremely vague so I can't even say anything else but I could have if you weren't so vague. >->
That is all.
@Severage
Thanks for clearing that up already. :D
Here's a list of charges never really used often
-antigua line
-pulsar line
-faust and gran faust
-Cutter line
-...
You get my point. Some lines are already incredibly powerful, either that or the charge sucks. Lines like the autogun are made for charge attacks, same with alchemers. As for DA...I actually use charge a lot, partially becuz I have High CTR, and the fact that it still is pretty powerful, especially on groups, where the 3 thingies can do their magic.
Yeah most people don't use Faust/GF's charge due to the chance of curse. It happens pretty often, and curse is a serious status effect. Anyway,
Yes, you're right. Some guns are made for essentially charge attacks only, and some are made to never use charge attacks. That just means that this game's balancing in terms of charge attacks are unbalanced. GF's charge wouldn't be much more effective than a Brandish, Brandish's charges are insanely powerful, especially after they were buffed.
Cutter's charge is completely broken, because it doesn't "stun" (I use that term lightly) during the charge, so you can literally walk right up to someone in the middle of their charge attack and smack 'em with a semi-fast weapon (Or enemies can).
So, just saying that some guns are meant to have bad charges and good bullets, and vice versa, is a poor argument, because that just means that they're unbalanced. In fact that's more of an argument to say that the antigua lines (and others) need better charges.
@Pawsmack:
Hi.
~Sev
Eh
I mean, wow I am heated with this thread. Sorry for the double post. Anywayz, cough, I just have to say, you did go +1 for this idea, and I kinda did, but I wasn't really talking about the antigua line in my original post, more of just charge attacks. Just saying. Oh yeah, and FoV charge is epic high risk high reward. An incredible charge, seta you on fire, but still sort of made ffor chaarge
Will you teach a poor helpless man how to debate with others? D:
@Severage
Um, OK? I didn't know that only people who agree with the suggestion were allowed to voice their opinions. I recognize that I'm a minority here, but I still stand in disfavor of this suggestion.
@Pawsmack
I'm neither rich nor lucky. I just saved up crowns and crafted the Handgun Focus Module trinkets.
I dont think so. Judging how many times OOO has listened to player suggestions...unlikely.
I didn't know that only people who agree with the suggestion were allowed to voice their opinions. I recognize that I'm a minority here, but I still stand in disfavor of this suggestion.
You're more than allowed to voice your opinion obviously. You've voice it 3 times now with no rational argument as to why whatsoever. There's nothing more to say, really. I don't recall directing ugly comments at you about anything, I simply told you why your initial comment was incorrect.
@Msaad:
I assume that's sarcasm, lol. Sorry if I took your thread and ran with it.
@Hexzyle:
Oh, I didn't even realize he said that. Shotjeer, trust me, I've been around here for a while (Though I certainly can't say I'm the most senior) and OOO has implemented many things from the Suggestions. Guild Hall Upgrades, Howlitzers and Polyps, Gun damage increased, Deadshot set fixed to match other sets (Added ASI: Low), etc...
~Sev
Well yes. and of course,ive witnessed the shadow bombs. The new shard bombs. Quite fun, but dark retribution is still epic. And yes, ive only been around for like 4 months. Spent most time playing. Hum.
@ Laraso
Doesn't matter you're still being very one-sided considering not everyone wants to craft Trinkets. Especially since people don't even focus on Trinkets like they're more urgent than other equipment. Not everyone can afford to focus on main equipment like weapons and armor already. What makes you think that Trinkets would make the situation better? Once again very vague...
Oh, my bad.
Welcome to the forums!
There, all better. :D
~Sev
Totally trying to be a bucket here:
You guys are supposed to be discussing the need for the idea of the Main Post, not arguing over which add-on you should or should not use to make better.
Reason being, Trinkets and UVs screw everything you try to take into consideration over. CRT High with focus modules on anything=EPIC CHARGE SPAM LOLOLOL.
Argue the necessity for the main point, include things that could potentially upset balance, like trinkets and UVs, determine the severity of the imbalance, rebalance if need be or trash.
No need to go start pulling each other's hair over this.
Translation of current argument:
-Laraso expresses concern over the possible exploitability of this idea. Chargespam specifically.
-Paw and Sev miss the word 'afraid' and hence miss the concern, instead somewhat assuming that Lar thinks this undoubtedly exploitable.
-Laraso mistakes Sev's counterpointing as being somewhat hostile. (Note that Sev rarely get's annoyed at anyone on the forums. Like, really.)
-Paw gets hostile on Laraso's hostile.
-Everything goes to Firestorm from there.
/endrage
So stahp guise.
-Everything goes to Firestorm from there
...
That's good. I'm going to steal that.
~Sev
"That's good. I'm going to steal that."
I've been working on Spiralized Variants for just about all common colloquial phrases. Off the top of my head, I've got:
-Snoop (Snipe poop, I really don't need to explain that one)
-WTF/What the Firestorm (WTH)
-What the Slag (weaker version of the Firestorm one)
-Firestorm (Hell)
-Slag (Stronger than snoop)
-Vogdammit (Goddammit)
-Vog (God)
-For the love of Vog (For the love of God)
-For Almire's sake (For [w/e] sake)
-Mecha please ([Female dog] Please)
And of course, Seerus and Seerusly.
"I've been working on Spiralized Variants"
Those are pretty Unique Variants.
Hurr hurr.
~Sev
EDIT: I just came up with another.
Instead of F***, variations of Swarm will be used.
Swarm must be capitalized in such cases.
Without you, I would be a loser in front of these people :D
@Psycho +1 or not?
Definitely I got a CRT high on my ap and its useless but I don't wanna roll again for fear I will get a beast low or something
Psycho your new nickname is Psy.
@Psy
+1 or -1? ._.
@Sev
Hi.
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Anyway on topic time: Does anyone know how much they should buff the bird or even buff it at all? I know on another thread someone said 25%-60% but that's just one person... I think they should buff it. ._.
I'm a little neutral to this.
While removing the shot sequence makes the Antigua-line series charge attack more useful, it'll essentially make it a better elemental/shadow Blaster-line gun.
However, one could argue that the Antigua-series balances it's mobility by lack of firepower, and that this balance is reversed for the charge attack, maintaining the balance. Disrupting that 'balance' in favour of mobile DPS would make it more powerful than it should.
On the other hand, it would become very useful as a result. Much more user friendly.
I like the idea, but I'm not so keen about possible, less practical imbalances.
Like the fact that the Anituga-series is a Six-shooter, exhibited by the charge shot as well. Removing that display in the charge shot kind of negates a metaphorical 'meaning' even I don't fully get what I'm talking about either.
So neutral.
Without being able to compare charge spamming to bullet fire, or a mixture of the two, I really couldn't say if it needs to be buffed or not.
You'd have to plug in numbers for that. I do know that the each hit the Eagle lands (usually 2 per large enemy) is roughly double (A little less, something like 1.8x) the damage a bullet hits.
All I can guesstimate is that you'd need over 4 enemies (At least 5) in a clump, even without the extra bullets, to actually have higher DPS, CTR not considered.
Based on my somewhat limited knowledge, Even if it gets buffed (Like even if it got buffed 500%), it will absolutely never out-dps a Blitz in terms of Single-Target Charge Attack damage, but it could rival the Blitz for mass-AoE charge damage, since it goes through enemies - doubling as a "GT[firestorm]O" charge attack.
Anyway, it's all hypothetical since we have no concrete testing.
~Sev
@Psy
What? ._.
@Sev
Sadly they probably wouldn't open up the test server just because of 1 gun. So they would probably have to throw in some extras. But I don't get why you're comparing it to a Blitz charge. Are you comparing them so people won't give it -1 because Blitz is OP? o-o Just curious.
Comparing to blitz because, generally speaking, if it's more powerful than Blitz in forms of charges, it will be OP.
Blitz is an easy example because the only reason it's used is because of an OP charge. If a mobile gun whose normal bullets are used often exceeds the Blitz, it's definitely overpowered.
~Sev
What if if shoots all 6 bullets at once, plus the bird? (With maybe damage reduction, and a bit of spread on the bullets of course.) Then it keeps the 6-shooter mechanic without sacrificing mobility.
btw:
"one could argue that the Antigua-series balances it's mobility by lack of firepower, and that this balance is reversed for the charge attack"
On the charge attack, the balance is "reversed" but not fully. You lose all mobility, but you don't do nearly as much damage as an Alchemer, Blitz, or Brandish charge. So either give back some mobility, or buff the damage to the point where no one will use the Blitz because the Antigua will be an Antigua with a Blitz charge.
I'm 100% sure this has been suggested before, I remember it. I just can't find it :/
anyways, +1.