when are you guys gonna make elevators cost no energy??
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t updates, it don't think that's good.
And how can one go down an elevator, if they have zero crowns?
Mist, it regens.
Crowns, it's a currency. Really do not want begging.
There would be an influx of gear.
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Holy cow, you are spiral delusional.
>When do we say that? We are saying, at least me, that paying for such an incentive is completely your call.
I've seen like 5 replies saying that I want everything for free, and a couple of more telling me to make a game like that.
>Who? You? On behalf of the vets here, we would disagree to this. Having cr payment, will definitely lead to everyone paying cr to do whatsoever stuff because they will see it as a better alternative. You've just crashed the energy system.
I'm not the only one that thinks of giving better use of crowns like that, they just aren't as loud as people defending this abusive energy [censored].
In the matter of crafting, crown crafting would be only viable as long as it's cheaper than with CE. It will eventually come to a balance in the long term. Course making the cr crafting too cheap will mess up the economy...
>Let me tell you straight, we do not directly pay CE for cosmetics. You've just turned everything upside down, making elevator fees and crafting fees payable by crowns and cosmetics with CE. It is BECAUSE cosmetics do not affect gameplay, that they are left as alternatives to crown sinks. Anything that affects the gameplay should be dealt with the energy system, because it is priority number 1 for everyone, therefore an effective way of trading CE among players.
So you're implying everything that is gameplay wise should be paid in CE, while pointless accessories should be payed in crowns? Right, that proves my point of the game being p2p with a "f2p" stamp on it.
>NO. It sounds hell worse, ruining the game's economy. By the way, the developers, though true to the fact that they had to make money, still has their priority on the gamers. They listen to the community, and started adding pets when everyone was yelling "I wantz Petz" all the time.
How exactly will ruin it? As I said on the previous post, if it's going to get unbalanced, just make more decent CE sinks to incentive people to buy it. And you know that most devs listen to the community solely because of money. It's fine until it reaches the certain point that it deteriorates the quality of the game or even changes it completely to something else. (see Ace of Spades for example).
@The-trial
I didn't said to replace the fee, I said that it could be removed entirely as soon as you can craft with crowns.
>There would be an influx of gear.
Heh, there's that. I guess a practical solution would be binding the gear immediately after crafting with crowns (unbinding should be relatively cheaper though.)
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The current energy system is a "hateful" system that we got to endure, because if not this game well, wouldn't already be here. I would indeed prefer it to be gameplay=free, cosmetics= pay, but this game doesn't have enough content for it to have this kind of model - in 2 days most likely, if there was a fixed CE and infinite CE (other system, I know, it is just a scenario) a player would have run through all three tiers, and a day more for Shadow Lairs and Crimson Hammer. The "padding" is justified, I think.
Maybe we should change the "free to play" title of these kind of MMOs to "invest to play", because if it wasn't thanks to the fans, we wouldn't have that continuous flow of CE into the market, and the game would have closed already. I wonder how much money each day this game moves.
And again, I am a player who is 100% f2p, full 5* stars and with a wide array of bomb weaponry. Though we didn't have that overinflating Mission Mode before...
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Considering that people trade gear(merchants), this may screw over them.
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@Deltikon
You sir are a true mumbling mental defective mate.
Set aside all major cupcakes and jelly jam factors, OOO needs players buying CE to survive
ITS THEIR ONLY WAY OF SURVIVING, people buying CE to distribute to others.
Also, you speech of "how all ce goes all the way back to a P2P player" is true, but they payed for it with money, But the F2P payed it with crowns thus making it "free energy" aside you having to work the crowns for it...
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There's that. SK needs content more than anything really... And it's not just pets that will allow us to beat monster butt even harder. I mean newer, more challenging ones, along with more creative level design, like the one on candlestick keep. And a bunch more of others ideas to make the game even more fun.
The-Trial
Eh, I didn't thought of that so far, perhaps 2* gear could be unbound with at least 100 energy units, which is the same as a full mist tank? People still can sell the stuff with rage crafting that way, but without over flooding the market.
Grittle
Read post #50. Stop jumping to conclusions.
>Also, you speech of "how all ce goes all the way back to a P2P player" is true, but they payed for it with money, But the F2P payed it with crowns thus making it "free energy" aside you having to work the crowns for it...
Then it's more like "f2p, but almost completely dependent on p2pers" then. I still don't like it, if p2pers stop selling the CE, f2pers have no reliable way of reaching T3 and will constantly complain about it on the forums even more badly. Fortunately that's not going to happen... yet.
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"when are you going to make elevators free? its basically making the game P2P and if you dont have any intentions of making them free then i hope this game fails, bye"
Buy a elevator pass. Hope this game fails? Fine, leave the game, spoil it, get bored of it and quit whining, idiot
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Thank you. Because of your posts in this thread, I have met my daily quota for sheer ignorance before the day's even half over!
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"I'm incapable of saying anything against his posts, so i'll just call him stupid, that'll show him!"
Some irony right there.
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Can we stop bumping this Childish thread?
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Well now you're taking things out of context. Did I once call you stupid? (Pssst! The correct answer is "no.") Allow me to quote myself:
"Thank you. Because of your posts in this thread, I have met my daily quota for sheer ignorance before the day's even half over!"
As Aureate pointed out, my comment was actually quite ambiguous and never accused you specifically of being the ignorant one whether it was actually meant that way or not. You just took it to be all about you. Some would call that narcissism.
Now let's quote you:
"'I'm incapable of saying anything against his posts, so i'll just call him stupid, that'll show him!'"
I already addressed the fact that I never called you stupid, so let's move on to "'I'm incapable of saying anything against his posts...'" Now since that's just plain false, I decided to fix it for you:
"I don't feel like wasting my time pointing out everything wrong with his posts (issues that everyone's already told him about five derpbillion times) because obviously he doesn't listen to anyone with knowledge that doesn't align with his thoughts."
There. All better.
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>Ironically, it's too easy to say. Claiming your argument is flawless...Yea-no.
Because ad-eminem is clearly flawless arguing. I was mentioning about that, I didn't said that my arguments being "flawless". Learn to read.
>You say 'people'. I ask, 'Who'? I'll mention how broken this is later.
Anyone who pretty much complains about the CE being too expensive.
>The CE market will be shot to Firestorm because people can grind the CW endlessly, 24/7 for those who have the time to waste a derpa-umpteen-billion crowns will be generated. Just because the CE's gone doesn't mean people will stop grinding. They'll still need to. Idk why you think they won't. They'll still need the cr for all your new cr-based mechanics, and what better way to get those than by running the most profitable levels over and over.
I know that, if OOO could actually balance the FSC's payout to the same as other levels, that wouldn't be that much of an issue.
>You think the majority of players grind for cr because they feel pressured to? Mecha please, they just know they want the cr, and the best way they know to get it: Run the more profitable stages, over and over. What they need the cr for comes later.
Don't kid yourself. I never said they were pressured.
>As afore mentioned, the CE price will have shot up, but with all the derpabillion cr the players are now in possession of, it won't even matter anymore. They'll just buy what they want when they want it.
You do realize that you still need the same playtime in grinding, with or without elevator cost, in order to get the same crowns? Because if you want a brazillion coins, you still need to play a brazillion hours to get them. You just happen to be able to play as long as you want without worrying about running out of mist or buying a pass.
>Besides promos, there'll be literally no incentive to buy ce. People can just do whatever the heck they want with their money, because there will be almost no need whatsoever to get ce with cash, no matter how many sinks you throw in there.
But that's wrong you imbecile. With CE, you could still skip grinding, unbind stuff (which is not really needed for gameplay), buy some chairs for guild hall, and I'm sure there's a guy around on the suggestion forums that mentioned about crafting accessories. Oh, and let's not forget about the keys. And there are far more CE sinks than you might possibly think. Plus, people always want to stand out out of the crowd.
>I'm not sure if you're just blind or clinically retarded. Honestly. If there is no profit, there is no game. Why the Cupcakes in Biscotti's kitchen would OOO want to run a game for free? For a good rep? Haha-no. They're a business, and they want profit. They don't get profit; "... Why the Firestorm are we still running this game?" /shutdown
Maybe you expect SEGA to fork out to help fund this wonderful free game of yours. Then again, why would SEGA invest in buying out OOO Just so they could make a loss?
I already told you, degenerated, that I don't want the whole game 100% free, just the gameplay part. It IS possible to profit from cosmetics and other small perks, but they do need to be creative about it.
>Because you ARE. "Then it's more like "f2p, but almost completely dependent on p2pers"" I told you before, F2P means a player can pick up the game, play it from A-Z without paying for his gaming experience. Just because someone had to fork out for it offscreen unbeknownst to said free player does not suddenly make the person's experience P2P.
No, I said f2p, but dependent on p2p. IF it wasn't for the p2p, the f2p wouldn't even be able to touch tier 3. Of course that's not a problem now, but sooner or later there will be a lack of supply from the p2pers and the f2pers will be forced to grind almost forever just to get a lousy 100CE pack. This isn't just to make the CE less dependable, it's also to protect f2pers from that eventual inflation. See those over 9000 days? We can go higher. And we might even will.
>Not to mention your 'ideal game' is pretty much wholly Free. Why anyone would need to pay for anything in there I can take a few guesses at, but otherwise, not seeing much.
Then again, that's your whole point. But why you seem to think that people could just do something like make a Free MMO with second to none incentive to pay them with cash is beyond me.
Path of Exile is working on that actually. https://www.pathofexile.com/purchase Take a look at the end of the page. I'm pretty sure SK has enough capability to be based on cosmetic, after a considerable amount of new content is putted in it.. Or are you going to say you need to have a gun pointed on your face to buy anything with cash?
Jesus what a wall...
EDIT: Ubernerd
Considering that almost the entire thread was disagreeing with me (with more or less reason), I did jumped on the conclusion that you were provoking me. My bad.
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"I don't want the whole game 100% free, just the gameplay part."
That's where you're going wrong, or were you not listening? The whole point of CE being Gameplay related is that players need it, and so hence buy it. Putting a little something at the side no-one needs with a pricetag doesn't count as the 1% not free stuff.
"Or are you going to say you need to have a gun pointed on your face to buy anything with cash?"
Are you going to say SK quite literally requires you to fork out to progress further, else quit the game if you can't? Your example is out of context entirely.
"I'm pretty sure SK has enough capability to be based on cosmetic, after a considerable amount of new content is putted in it.."
I'm pretty sure they can't, considering how many different recoulours and styles they'd have to come up with then. And in case you haven't noticed, Cosmetic updates are what people here appear to be whining about the MOST.
"Path of Exile is working on that actually"
That's PoE. Is SK PoE? Are they run by the same company? The same people? PoE may want to make a game that they'll fund because they want players to be happy, great. OOO and SEGA however are profit based companies. OOO is small and needs the money, SEGA wouldn't invest in a game just so they can run it free.
"I didn't said that my arguments being "flawless". Learn to read."
And I quote: " "[Ubernerd is] incapable of saying anything against [my] posts"
Implying that someone is incapable of putting forward an argument of any sort hence leads to the idea that there are no flaws to pick at, ergo, you think your argument is flawless.
Learn to logic.
"Don't kid yourself. I never said they were pressured."
You did however in other threads back when you were raging about how people are forced to grind, and considering that I was talking about grinding, I found that point wholly relevant.
"I know that, if OOO could actually balance the FSC's payout to the same as other levels, that wouldn't be that much of an issue."
That wouldn't change the fact that they'd have to grind endlessly for the cr, 'have to' being a gross exaggeration; they'd do it anyway.
"Because if you want a brazillion coins, you still need to play a brazillion hours to get them. You just happen to be able to play as long as you want without worrying about running out of mist or buying a pass."
...So you're basically complaining because you do't get to play as much as you want.
...
I seriously don't know what you're on. Something strong I presume.
"But that's wrong you imbecile. With CE, you could still skip grinding, unbind stuff (which is not really needed for gameplay), buy some chairs for guild hall, and I'm sure there's a guy around on the suggestion forums that mentioned about crafting accessories. Oh, and let's not forget about the keys. And there are far more CE sinks than you might possibly think. Plus, people always want to stand out out of the crowd."
Ah, but I'm not, because I clearly said that buying CE when they need it wouldn't be an issue because people with time to waste would've farmed the derpabillion crowns they needed to get derpamillion CE that they need to get what they want.
Only way to stop that is to get rid of the energy market. Do that, P2W incoming.
"f2pers will be forced to grind almost forever just to get a lousy 100CE pack. This isn't just to make the CE less dependable, it's also to protect f2pers from that eventual inflation. See those over 9000 days? We can go higher. And we might even will."
And your program is going to change that? Seriously, I've pointed this out like twice already. Implement your idea, the CE price will shoot itself to Firestorm, and all players will have to grind their posteriors off to meet the demands anyway, which they will do, anyway.
Nothing will change.
"Jesus what a wall..."
You're one to talk, considering you're really not listening. SK will not exist if the companies that fund it don't get profit, and your new idea for the game will break more than it'll fix, unless SEGA and OOO don't mind running a charity game, when even still then players will grind themselves itno bolivion trying to get those umpteen-derpabillion crowns.
Also, +1 Ubernerd.
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1. This game is free, you can play through all the content without spending a single cent. All except for OCH, OOO has to cater to the p2p'ers somehow, and adding a single p2p exclusive mission doesnt automatically make this game p2p.
2. Thats how the system works. It's simple, and works well, and I'm almost positive that they aren't going to remove the elevator cost, not anytime soon anyways.
3. I really don't think this game is going to fail or drop dead anytime soon. It's still continuing its life cycle, and you hoping it will fail won't do a single thing about it.
4. Don't like it? Don't play it. Don't agree with the rules? Then get out. It's simple.
Kthxbye.
~Magnicth
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For clarification before moar rageposting, this guy was talking to the OP.
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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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This is all of the noob's fault for complaining that they don't have play hours.
Also, if you don't have play hours for Spiral knights, then why are you complaining? You should make a piece of thread in RL, write your complaint and then show it to your parents. Now that wasn't so hard was it? You need to also make sense in what you are doing.
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Well if I were to sum up this thread it boils down to not being able to play as much as they want. The game is basically a drug and everyone is having withdrawal symptoms. I don't blame them.
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>That's where you're going wrong, or were you not listening? The whole point of CE being Gameplay related is that players need it, and so hence buy it. Putting a little something at the side no-one needs with a pricetag doesn't count as the 1% not free stuff.
Listening clearly, and yes, it's a brilliant idea, if it wasn't a dick move from the devs.
>Are you going to say SK quite literally requires you to fork out to progress further, else quit the game if you can't? Your example is out of context entirely.
It's not very far from that really.
>I'm pretty sure they can't, considering how many different recoulours and styles they'd have to come up with then. And in case you haven't noticed, Cosmetic updates are what people here appear to be whining about the MOST.
They whine about the costumes because they think the devs are putting it ahead the game itself, not to mention about the lazy recolor work. They wouldn't complain so much if they actually look more different, right? And i'm not just talking about plain different recolors, I'm talking about far more different looking, like the helms from the total war promo. It's hard, but possible.
>That's PoE. Is SK PoE? Are they run by the same company? The same people? PoE may want to make a game that they'll fund because they want players to be happy, great. OOO and SEGA however are profit based companies. OOO is small and needs the money, SEGA wouldn't invest in a game just so they can run it free.
You do realize there's a need to make the costumers happy in order to make profit, right? Then again, that's not very hard considering the idiocy of some people. Yes, you can include me too on the group twerp, but I'm not going to be moronic at the point on giving in or even supporting this abusive system.
Just to let you know, path of Exile was created by a small group of gamers.
>Implying that someone is incapable of putting forward an argument of any sort hence leads to the idea that there are no flaws to pick at, ergo, you think your argument is flawless.
Learn to logic
Please [buzz off] for thinking I was bolstering my ego like that.
>You did however in other threads back when you were raging about how people are forced to grind, and considering that I was talking about grinding, I found that point wholly relevant.
You were talking about the 24/7 FSC grinders. I was talking about people who weren't on endgame yet back then. Don't mix things up, will ya?
>That wouldn't change the fact that they'd have to grind endlessly for the cr, 'have to' being a gross exaggeration; they'd do it anyway.
Not if it's properly balanced, and that includes the token rewards. Pretty sure people aren't that stupid playing the same levels all over again when the wider variety doesn't make a difference in their pockets. I could be underestimating people's stupidity though.
>So you're basically complaining because you do't get to play as much as you want.
...Isn't this the whole point of the thread?
>Ah, but I'm not, because I clearly said that buying CE when they need it wouldn't be an issue because people with time to waste would've farmed the derpabillion crowns they needed to get derpamillion CE that they need to get what they want.
Only way to stop that is to get rid of the energy market. Do that, P2W incoming.
And your program is going to change that? Seriously, I've pointed this out like twice already. Implement your idea, the CE price will shoot itself to Firestorm, and all players will have to grind their posteriors off to meet the demands anyway, which they will do, anyway.
Nothing will change.
You said the prices would skyrocket, right? Well, if crafting and playing the game without needing energy is done, I'm not seeing a problem there. Plus, p2w has arrived already, even though it's just something tiny for now.
>For clarification before moar rageposting, this guy was talking to the OP.
Yes, dear. Thanks for clarifying.
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hay guys
ridiculous picture thread
http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx149/Idylleaus/1355100730630_zps563d...
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"It's not very far from that really."
It really is. Someone holding a knife through your ribs threatening to only pull it out if you comply is wholly different to someone telling you they're going to steal your lunch money if you don't comply. Just because they're both threats doesn't mean they're similar enough to be considered the same thing.
Likewise highly encouraging players to buy ce =/= forcing them to do it. Nobody told them to, but they do it anyway. Did it SAY or even IMPLY that you need to buy CE with cash to proceed?
Don't even answer that; it's a nope. You may think that people feel the need to, but that's their own impatience talking, not the game.
"Just to let you know, path of Exile was created by a small group of gamers."
A small group of gamers who want to make a free game. Is OOO a small group of gamers who want to make a free game? Nope. Is SEGA? Nope. Difference being, one of them give a damn about player fully being able to enjoy their time while the other focuses on the balance between player-enjoyment and profit. If they can't find a balance, they're just going to trash it.
"You do realize there's a need to make the costumers happy in order to make profit, right? Then again, that's not very hard considering the idiocy of some people."
You do realize that just because players are happy doesn't mean they'll fork out enough to help out because they feel so loved that they're willing to be overly nice in return?
"I'm not going to be moronic at the point on giving in or even supporting this abusive system."
You keep calling it abusive as if it's forcing you to do something. It's really not. Did OOO threaten you with a ban if you didn't pay them? Did it tell you you can't progress any further if you don't pay them?
Restrictive it may be, but abusive is beyond gross exaggeration.
"You were talking about the 24/7 FSC grinders."
I actually wasn't. Some people, like me, tend to stockpile their cr in the snooploads 'in case I ever need it'. Just because they're supposed to be dead set on gearing up doesn't mean they'll be focusing on that. My little brother keeps blowing out his cr on all the cosmetics, and he hasn't obtained even a full 5* set yet.
"Not if it's properly balanced, and that includes the token rewards."
If all the stages had the same cr output, people would find which is the easiest and grind that to heck. If it was difficulty scaled, people would find the most profitable, and grind it to heck anyway. 'Properly balanced' doesn't factor in.
"I could be underestimating people's stupidity though."
You are.
"...Isn't this the whole point of the thread?"
So idiot OP whines like a child about how not absolutely everything in the game is free and threatens to quit and you support him? Looks like I severely underestimated your sense of self-entitlement.
"You said the prices would skyrocket, right? Well, if crafting and playing the game without needing energy is done, I'm not seeing a problem there"
Then you really are blind, because then, if said cr costs are low, the game would be too easy, and if they were any higher, people would grind etcetc derpabillion cr etc how are you not seeing where each of these paths lead?
OCH is NOT P2W. At best it is P2P exclusive content. If there was a whole range of 1337 gear not accessible to F2P, THEN P2W. This is only an exclusive to P2P thing, and apparently they're working on changing that.
In fact, iirc, it can be bought with ce on the Asian server. So no, not P2W.
"ITT morons implying that I want everything in the game to be free."
When do we say that? We are saying, at least me, that paying for such an incentive is completely your call.
"People want important stuff like crafting and slot unlockers to be available with cr payment, but I did NOT imply that the CE payment should be replaced. Having both is fine, but cr payment method SHOULD be there."
Who? You? On behalf of the vets here, we would disagree to this. Having cr payment, will definitely lead to everyone paying cr to do whatsoever stuff because they will see it as a better alternative. You've just crashed the energy system.
"If above is done, elevator fees can be safely removed because it wouldn't matter that the CE price would skyrocket. People could still progress without worrying about endless grinding.
Cosmetic gibberish, like accessories and guild hall junk (minus the upkeep and expansions) should be paid EXCLUSIVELY with CE, which is perfectly fine because they do NOT affect the gameplay."
Let me tell you straight, we do not directly pay CE for cosmetics. You've just turned everything upside down, making elevator fees and crafting fees payable by crowns and cosmetics with CE. It is BECAUSE cosmetics do not affect gameplay, that they are left as alternatives to crown sinks. Anything that affects the gameplay should be dealt with the energy system, because it is priority number 1 for everyone, therefore an effective way of trading CE among players.
"Doesn't this sound a lot better than the current bs energy system or are you going to keep choking on it because of MUH DEV'S PROFITS?"
NO. It sounds hell worse, ruining the game's economy. By the way, the developers, though true to the fact that they had to make money, still has their priority on the gamers. They listen to the community, and started adding pets when everyone was yelling "I wantz Petz" all the time.
If you hate the energy system so much, go to a game and play 10 hours a day on it to get your 1337 gears, then brag about it.