Spiral Knights - Gathering teh numbers

Gathering teh numbers

21 replies [Last post]

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:14

Trollingyou

Before reading on, you may want to check out this thread: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/71795

As many of you know, we have bars to tell us how good/bad/whatever something is. Problem is, these bars often do not tell the whole story. I, and many others, would love to see the numbers back. So, I am going to gather as many numbers as possible and post them here.

For now I am starting with the weapons. Resistances and Defenses will be much harder to test.

NOTE: These numbers are based off of damage dealt to neutral targets with no damage bonus whatsoever on them. The amount of bars the weapon has is an estimate based on the image. Note that some of these bar values might be off.

Values were gathered in T3 Guild Training Hall on the sandbags. All weapons are fully heated. All values are damage per hit, not total damage of combo, charge, or anything involving multiple hits.

This also assumes that the reader has a general idea of how the weapons work. If something is unclear I'll try to make it more clear.

---The Guns---

Argent Peacemaker - 61 normal shot; 167 charge shot; 5.33 bars

Sentenza - 61 normal shot; 167 charge shot; 5.33 bars

Neutralizer - 92 normal shot; 366 charge shot; 8.33 bars

Biohazard - 92 normal shot; 336 charge shot; 7.5 bars

Blitz Needle - 61 normal shot; 167 charge shot; 5.33 bars

Plague Needle - 45 normal shot; 103 charge shot; 4.25 bars

Callahan - 148 normal shot; 336 charge shot; 8.5 bars

Iron Slug - 148 normal shot; 336 charge shot; 8.5 bars

Umbra Driver - 130 normal shot; 306 charge shot; 7.66 bars

Nova Driver - 130 normal shot; 306 charge shot; 7.66 bars

Magma Driver - 92 normal shot; 252 charge shot; 6.67 bars

Hail Driver - 92 normal shot; 252 charge shot; 6.67 bars

Storm Driver - 92 normal shot; 252 charge shot; 6.67 bars

Polaris - 92 small shot; 130 big shot; 306 charge shot; 7.66 bars

Supernova - 92 small shot; 148 big shot; 306 charge shot; 7.75 bars

Valiance - 107 normal shot; 276 charge shot; 7.25 bars

Volcanic Pepperbox - 45 normal shot; 103 charge shot; 4.25 bars

---The Swords---

Cold Iron Vanquisher - 167 normal swing; 208 end swing; 309 charge swing; max bars

Leviathan - 191 normal swing; 237 last swing; 347 charge swing; max bars

Voltedge - 198 normal swing; 283 last swing; 473 charge swing; 113 charge blast; 6.67 + 6.67 bars

Combuster - 198 normal swing; 283 last swing; 473 charge swing; 113 charge blast; 6.67 + 6.67 bars

Glacius - 198 normal swing; 283 last swing; 473 charge swing; 113 charge blast; 6.67 + 6.67 bars

Acheron - 198 normal swing; 283 last swing; 473 charge swing; 113 charge blast; 6.67 + 6.67 bars

Gran Faust - 241 first swing; 338 last swing; 545 charge swing; 133 charge shot; 7.25 + 7.25 bars

Divine Avenger - 241 first swing; 338 last swing; 545 charge swing; 133 charge shot; 7.25 + 7.25 bars

Sudaruska - 237 first swing; 291 second swing; 382 charge swing; 417 charge blast; max bars

Triglav - 237 first swing; 291 second swing; 382 charge swing; 417 charge blast; max bars

Wild Hunting Blade - 107 normal swing; 61 ghost swing; 148 charge swing; 7.25 bars

Dread Venom Striker - 107 normal swing; 61 ghost swing; 148 charge swing; 7.25 bars

Final Flourish - 193 normal swing; 241 final swing; 355 charge swing; 391 final charge swing; max bars

Fearless Rigadoon - 149 normal swing; 190 last swing; 284 first/second charge swing; 323 last charge swing; 8.33 bars

Furious Flamberge - 149 normal swing; 190 last swing; 284 first/second charge swing; 323 last charge swing; 8.33 bars

Warmaster Rocket Hammer - 237 first swing; 149 dash; 291 last swing; 417 charge attack; max bars

Fang of Vog - 174 normal swings; 254 last swing; 430 charge swing; 6.33 + 6.33 bars

---The Bombs---

Shivermist Buster - 171 charge damage; max bars

Ash of Agni - 171 charge damage; max bars

Venom Veiler - 171 charge damage; max bars

Stagger Storm - 171 charge damage; max bars

Voltaic Tempest - 171 charge damage; max bars

Dark Retribution - 45 charge damage; max bars

Dark Briar Barrage - 214 charge damage; max bars

Graviton Vortex - 6 pull damage; 198 blast damage; max bars

Electron Vortex - 6 pull damage; 171 blast damage; max bars

Deadly Crystal Bomb - 69 core damage; 95 shard damage; 6.75 bars

Deadly Dark Matter Bomb - 69 core damage; 95 shard damage; 6.75 bars

Deadly Splinter Bomb - 69 core damage; 95 shard damage; 6.75 bars

Shocking Salt bomb - 69 core damage; 81 shard damage; 6.35 bars

Scintillating Sun shards - 69 core damage; 81 shard damage; 6.35 bars

Big Angry Bomb - 264 charge damage; max bars

Irontech Destroyer - 239 charge damage; max bars

Nitronome - 214 charge damage; max bars

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special thanks to all who have helped thus far in finding these numbers. These include:

Zeddy's bomb chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkB_kx1fvrxadGx1RFZscTVjOHV...

Lancer Knight's chart: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Lancer_Knightz_%28Guild%29/Data

Various people ingame

Posters in this thread.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:31

Aureate

The wiki is a thing that exists

This should really go in the wiki-editor's thread, where I'm reasonably sure they'll be glad to have the extra information, since they like to record the minimum-maximum damage output of weapons in strata. Arsenal isn't really the appropriate place to post this.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:43

Trollingyou

Thanks for the reply

The main reason why I made this thread was to get out actual numbers to those who were wondering. I've searched through the wiki, and there are a whole lot of numbers missing from there. Thought arsenal would be the bast place since it is about equipment and their values.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 19:11

Etharaes

Here's some damage numbers for you

Supernova: 92 small shot, 148 expanded shot, 306 charge shot, 7.25 bars
Fearless Rigadoon and Furious Flamberge: 149 1st and 2nd swing, 190 final swing, 284 1st and 2nd charge swings, 323 charge final swing, 8.33 bars
Fang of Vog: 174 1st and 2nd swing, 254 final swing, 430 charge attack, 6.33 + 6.33 bars
Sudaruska: 237 first swing, 291 second swing, 382 charge hit, 417 charge blast, Max bars
Wild Hunting Blade: 107 normal swing, 61 ghost swing, 148 charge swing, 7.25 bars
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 237 first swing, 149 dash, 291 final swing, 417 charge attack, Max bars

I have both fearless rigadoon and furious flamberge and they have exactly the same damage numbers.
For the cutter series, the ghost swings on the normal strikes are the same as the ghost swings on the charge attacks.
I'll put up Ash of Agni when I get it fully heated.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:37

Trollingyou

@Etharaes

Thanks a ton, will update asap.

Just a question, do the ghost swings do the same damage as the normal swings on the charge of wild hunting blade?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:48

Bopp

lots of threads like this recently

There have been a few threads like this recently for some reason. For example, there is still one on the first page of the Wiki Editors forum: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/70879.

The guild Lancer Knightz has been running a data collection project for well over a year. They have detailed data on speed and damage for most swords, guns, and bombs. Their damage numbers include most levels of damage bonus, at depths 19 and 24. Check them out: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Lancer_Knightz_(Guild)/Data.

So I applaud your attempts to collect even more data, but do make sure that your data aren't redundant with Zeddy's data, Lancer Knightz's data, or the data on each weapon's wiki page.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:57

Etharaes

@Trollingyou

The ghost swings created when using the charge attack are identical to the ghost swings created when using the normal combo. It's kinda hard to explain, sorry if I was unclear.

Also, I'm not 100% clear on whether the bars are something.33 or something.25, so don't shoot me if those parts are incorrect.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 12:04

Aureate

Errr.

if that WHB works anything like my DVS, then the last swing should have a slightly higher damage value than the rest of them.
Or it might just be that they work differently. (After all, the DVS's flinching ability on the charge is laughably poor when compared to the WHB, or pretty much any other weapon for that matter...)

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 12:34

Bopp

let me help out here

No one here should be wondering how DVS and WHB work. It is all explained at the DVS and WHB wiki pages. There are three levels of damage, which the wiki calls "high", "low", and "charge". The five strokes of the regular attack go

high+low, high+low, high+low, high+low, charge+low.

The five strokes of the charge attack go

charge+low, charge+low, charge+low, charge+low, charge+low.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 19:15

Trollingyou

Responses

@Etharaes It's ok, thanks for clarifying it. It's hard to tell how long the bars actually are in some cases, these are estimates after all.

@Aureate Things like this are part of the reason why I'm trying to collect these numbers. Unless the bars go beyond what we can see, things that have maxed out bars are all giving out different damage values, which should not be.

@Bopp It's good to know others are out there trying to collect numbers too. Unfortunately, a large portion of people playing this game probably don't know these things exist. The main purpose of this was to find a relationship between a weapon's actual damage and the bars on the picture and get the info out there for people to see.

EDIT: made a mistake on biohazard, charge is 336. Neutralizer's charge does indeed hit harder.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:05

#10

Aureate

@Bopp

Ah, right. Thanks for clarifying: I wasn't aware that the damage value was identical to the standard hit of the charge, mainly because I never actually use the charge in order to compare the values. Derp.

Also will get the values for DVS, DA and BTB (which is, apart from the charge, identical to Final Flourish) up as soon as I can get back on SK again. Probably tomorrow. The rest of my weapons are either not 5* or already up on the list. However, I am reasonably certain that all haze bombs do the same amount of damage from their initial blast if they're not UVed, so that should save you some time.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:25

#11

Trollingyou

@Aureate

I was thinking the same thing on the haze bombs, I'll put in the info and if it's wrong change it later. Just want to make sure everything is as accurate as possible.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 14:36

#12

Bopp

right, but just work from other people's data

Trollingyou, I fully support your effort to rectify the damage bars with the damage done. People (including me) have tried to do it for armor, but I'm not aware of people doing it for weapons. So please do.

This seems to be a three-step process: (A) measure damage numbers in fights against monsters or training hall dummies, (B) measure the lengths of damage bars on items, and (C) compare/analyze. What I'm saying is that task (A) is largely done for you; just use other people's data. Tasks (B) and (C) are going to be plenty of work themselves. :)

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 17:59

#13

Zeddy

Bomb damage numbers.

D'ya need me to gather the bars, too? I could just look at my inventory and get all of them.

If you do, I'll get going on that when I wake up and also fetch damage for Triglav and whatever else I have and you don't.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 18:06

#14

Trollingyou

Moar Responses

@Bopp I see what you're saying now, thanks for clarifying. If you don't mind, I'll include a link in the OP so people can see the charts too (mainly those too lazy to scroll down lol....)

@Zeddy Yes, the bars would be nice too. Thanks for sharing the chart. I'll include it in the OP too if it's ok with you.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 19:13

#15

Etharaes

Updated my first post

So I added the charge attack damage for the hammer. Also, why didn't you add the damage for the sudaruska? I gave you the numbers.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 19:24

#16

Trollingyou

@Etharaes

I must have missed sudaruska, sorry. I'll update it. Developing a theory that the bars may be a representation of normal attack combined with charge attack. Will have to do more testing and analyzing though.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 05:37

#17

Zeddy

@Trollingyou

I'd be honoured to have my bomb value chart posted at the top. Here are the bars. I'm working with 1 bar = 17 pixels, and I'm not counting the partially hidden bar all the way to the left. Max bars is 8 bars + 13 pixels.

Nitronome and Dark Briar Barrage
-8 bars + 1 pixel before heating.
-Max bars after heating.
-214 base damage.

Irontech Destroyer
-8 bars + 12 pixels before heating.
-Max bars after heating.
-239 base damage.

Big Angry Bomb
-Max bars before heating.
-Max bars after heating.
-264 base damage.

Dark Retribution
-8 bars + 1 pixel before heating
-Max bars after heating
-45 base damage. I can hit a sandbag 12 times, adding up to 540.

Deadly Shard, Deadly Crystal, Deadly Dark Matter and Deadly Splinter Bombs
-5 bars + 8 pixels before heating.
-6 bars + 13 pixels after heating.
-Core does 69 damage, shards do 95.

Shocking Salt Bomb and Scintillating Sun Shards
-5 bars + 1 pixels before heating.
-6 bars + 6 pixels after heating.
-Core does 69 damage, shards do 81.

Haze Bombs
-7 bars + 2 pixels before heating.
-Max bars afterwards.
-171 base damage.

Electron Vortex
-7 bars + 2 pixels before heating.
-Max bars afterwards.
-6 normal damage from the pull, 171 damage from the blast.

Graviton Vortex
-7 bars + 12 pixels before heating.
-Max bars afterwards.
-6 normal damage from the pull, 198 damage from the blast.

Heavy Deconstructor
-6 bars + 16 pixels before heating.
-8 bars + 11 pixels after heating.
-191 base damage.

Triglav
-Max bars before heating.
-Max bars after heating.
-237 and 291 for the combo. 382 and 417 for the charge.

Barbarous Thorn Blade
-7 bars + 9 pixels before heating.
-Max bars after heating.
-191 and 237 for the combo. 347 and 77 for the charge attack and projectiles.

Thu, 01/17/2013 - 03:44

#18

Batabii

Actually the SK wiki should

Actually the SK wiki should be more like the tf2 wiki, with function intervals and damage spreads etc. It would be more work, sure, but also be much more helpful in determining which weapons are more viable.

by the way, I can get damage numbers from DA and DVS

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 20:36

#19

Trollingyou

Sorry for inactivity

Still going at this, but things in life take priority. have done some analyzing though and developed a theory. I slapped all the gun values into an excel spread sheet and made a bar graph out of it, and the bar graph perfectly matches the length of the bars themselves when using the value you get when you add together the normal shot damage and the charge shot damage. I have yet to test it with the swords and the bombs, not to mention it will be harder since some of the weapons in those categories have max bars but give out varying amounts of damage.

I doubt this will work on bombs, but will try it anyway. I have a feeling bombs may be measured differently, seeing that DR has max bars but delivers very low damage per hit, albeit rapidly. Blitz's bar reflects it's low damage per hit (which is identical to AP/Sentenza) even though we know it deals outrageous DPS, but it does not have max bars.

@Batabii Those values are in the lancer knightz' charts, just haven't got around to adding them in. Thanks anyways though.

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 05:57

#20

Batabii

idk how relevant this is, but

idk how relevant this is, but upon testing, it seems to me that the Sealed Sword's status effects (which are not even mentioned on the tooltip) are around Moderate strength. It did slightly less Fire damage than a Fang of Vog at the same depth.

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 09:46

#21

Zeddy

@Trollingyou

Regarding DR, could it be it uses the value for the blast + one hit fom each orb?

Search

Gathering teh numbers