Spiral Knights - Dual Weapons Equipment

Dual Weapons Equipment

22 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 20:12

Aralia-Zen

This has been rethought after 6 minutes of being alive X)
I've always thought the idea of dual blades/guns was awesome... It would make battling so much easier... I know that it has been suggested many times, but putting a limit onto it could propose a possible solution to the problems seen before. Perhaps it could be incorporated into Lockdown as another individual class!

The main idea is to work a little harder to get the upgrade by doing something *unattainable to those who wouldn't try* and still available to everyone.

Ideas:
To get dual weapons:
~Buy the dual upgrade
~Get two weapons for that upgrade and insert them in the dual slots.

In the Clockworks:
Guns: You would probably have two get two of the same gun, which is 2x the effort, crowns, and energy. Nonetheless, it would be epic, giving you 2x the firing speed.
Swords: Maybe a possible way to mix swords, for example a Boltbrand and Blizzbrand, allowing dual wielding and two slashes. Charge attacks could possibly have a chance to critical with 2x the damage, regular attacks only getting maybe 20-30 percent more damage, so that it's not OP.
Bombs: Probably a no-go, it doesn't make sense to equip two bombs.

I hope this idea is taken into consideration c: Constructive (<-- CONSTRUCTIVE remember?) criticism is highly appreciated.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 20:16

Psychodestroyer

I suggest you search 'Dual Wielding' using either the Forum Search bar or Google (adding a 'Spiral Knights' to the end of the search term if you do) before the hate rolls in.

This has been suggested many times, in many 'plausible' ways. I suggest you at least read some of the threads so you understand the problems with it first.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 21:16

Zeyez

the most basic problem: the

the most basic problem:
the game is maded for everybody wield a shield
lost the guard equals easy dead (example: look to snarbolax and Roarmulous Twins)

killing everything so fast and "no guard" become really unbalanced to the game:
think about 2 charged Blitz attacks at same time, even constructs can be destroyed
or use 2 pulsar on "alternate shoot combo" (nearly perfect crowd control)
or if can be possible use dual charge attack with leviathan and combuster (push everything on front and around you)

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 21:20

Fehzor

Balance issues would follow, but it would be awesome as all get out. So +1, though I'd like to see something like this come out after or alongside more enemies.

Aside from that, go look at all of the other threads on the same topic and put them together like whatsit did with pets. Maybe the devs will ask us so that we can say that we want it.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 22:01

Doctorspacebar

If swordsmen get their dual swords and gunslingers get their dual guns, we bombers get our dual bombs, and to Dark City with "it doesn't make sense" because surely you can just carry a bomb in each hand? Bombers need some love anyway.

Also, one, enemies would need to be tougher to counteract the inevitable rise in damage output. Two, what about shields? Shields are a big part of, well, everything! I assume dual-wielded weapons would have to have some sort of blocking ability. In Lockdown, specialty bars would also have to remain, though in limited capacity. (Perhaps only Recon gets Dual Wielding; Guardian doesn't make sense with it and Striker doesn't need it.)

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 22:33

Klipik

Autofire.

Agreed with Fez, it's a really good idea that would make the game a lot more fun if implemented correctly. The problem, of course, is implementing it in such a way as to make it smooth and balanced. For example, what if you could use two Gran Fausts? What about a bomb and a sword, or another hybrid combination? What would the control setups be like if you had two attack buttons? Would you have two attack buttons?

+0.5.

Mon, 01/21/2013 - 03:55

Hexzyle

I made a filled out thread on this already.

All your questions on how dual wielding can be implemented are answered here. If you have anything new to add, please do.

Mon, 01/21/2013 - 09:05

Shotjeer

I dont think so

Dual wielding can become OP, like the posts above said duel Polaris or Blitz. I don't think them devs will implant this ingame.

Mon, 01/21/2013 - 11:49

Aureate

No.

This is totally unfair to bombers.

'doubling firing speed of guns
two slashes only getting maybe 20-30% more damage'

'oh hey guys we just implemented this really cool mechanic that lets you do a [redacted]ton of extra damage, too bad you guys can't use it because you have the wrong weapon types trololo'

You haven't even accounted for what would happen to the shield that normally is held in the offhand instead.
I cannot condone this idea as it is. There have been multiple ideas for dual wielding; I would recommend you look at them and the issues that arose, and possibly amend your first post if you still want to go ahead with a dual wielding mechanics.

Mon, 01/21/2013 - 14:27

Dashydra

YES!

Dual bombs, please! Graviton Vortex+Dark Retribution
Oh, the chaos!

Mon, 01/21/2013 - 16:16

#10

Zeddy

You can already use two guns to achieve a higher firerate.

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 06:09

#11

Xxpapaya

The papaya is confused

And how exactly do gunners reload? :3

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 06:42

#12

Zenpai

It's times like this when I

It's times like this when I wonder about dual wielding... four people in party with dual CTR VH blitzes at Max Damage and M speed increase (Unless the blitzes were both very high). Vana would be killed in record time as in... it wouldn't be feasibly possible to kill him faster.

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 07:12

#13

Shion-Sinx

easy

reduce to 30% the damage from the second weapon. not by 30%, to 30%.

it would be cool? YES.

might happen? who knows, its a suggestion forum.

might be broken? well, thats why people at OOO is paid to make the game, THEY have to plan it in a way to be balanced.

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 08:57

#14

Aureate

@Shion-Sinx

Maybe, but what do you think they're more likely to put in the game; the suggestion that's all sorted out, neatly balanced and well detailed, or something that will require a lot of work in order to make the concept a non-game-breaking one?
The people at OOO have coding to do. It helps them a lot if they can use an idea that's already pretty much ready for implementation, rather than spending extra time on getting it fixed and then doing the coding.
Also, 30% of a Blitz charge is still over 1000 damage. Try again.

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 09:14

#15

Little-Juances

"reduce to 30% the damage from the second weapon. not by 30%, to 30%."

A shield that increases damage (barbarous but for guns) could buff your main gun, replacing that 30% secondary and protect you a little. Plus saves money, you wont have to craft every gun you want to dual wield twice.

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 10:20

#16

Luguiru

If the answer to why something should happen is "it would be cool" accompanied by "Three Rings can do all the hard work", guess how likely it is to happen.

For an example anyone can understand without needing it spelled out for them, say there are two salesmen who come to your house one day. The one on the left is wearing a nice suit. The one on the right is naked. The one on the left opens the briefcase they were carrying with them to show you documents detailing their service and how it benefits you. The one on the right wants to use your shower. The one on the left speaks calmly and informatively of their product. The one on the right tries to steal your wallet when you turn away for a second. Which salesman would you kick in the head?

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 11:53

#17

Aureate

@Lugui

You just made me think of naked Nic Cage.
Bad mental images. Must use brain bleach.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 08:31

#18

Gwaino

That would be realy cool 2 dual weild

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 08:41

#19

Zaffy-Laffy

Zaffy is Laffy

/doublefacepalm

One for supporting dual wielding without giving substantial counter-argument to the rest of the SK community who has obviously disagreed to this idea.

Two for necro.

Zaffy's facepalm level increased to 15.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 10:36

#20

Onekone

While thread is up here

Shields - they NEVER held them in hand, it's ATTACHED to Vog damn wrist! + I bet you can place it on back and wire a button from shield power generator to somewhere on knight to activate it from there (anyway I doubt that shield made from shadowy scales just drain empty power supply and have not even a scratch from MASSIVE VANADUKE MACE SMASH)

Dual Pistols - is ASD to level of slowest gun in pair, excluding Blitzes (we're not Rambo), having to slowly reload both guns (which they reload by twirling on their fingers?) is enough loss for you?

Also, old CS1.6 did that with dual Elites - they have 15 rounds in both [30 total] mag but when you required to reload them, character removes clip-loads first gun and then reloads his second gun. It was REALLY slow, and guns itself is not really powerful nor accurate

Dual Swords - is excluding heavy swords and maybe Flourishes is enough loss for you? No bonuses, just two swords

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 11:35

#21

Mrgrey

Please post here

Nevermind, I see Hex posted the thread.

Hex, a few others, and myself put some time into thinking of a reasonable proposal for dual wielding. Including balance, defense, and all but actual damage numbers. Dual gunning is still in the air, and a bomber told us that the dark retribution bomb acts as a dual because it explodes and has the spinning balls after. The issue with guns is that they couldn't be OP.

@Luguiru Did you already look at Hex's thread? I was wanting to see your opinion on our ideas.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 13:04

#22

Quakeman

hunters blade , magnus ,

hunters blade , magnus , alchemers , and even bltiz are dual weld weapons minus dual weld visual ... they shoot 2 very strong shot or do 2 hit very quickly. blitz would be like a minigun .. there is no way you could normaly fire this with 1 hand