Spiral Knights - The Polaris

The Polaris

84 replies [Last post]

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 08:32

#51

Spookington

@ Roguewolf

[Ignoring whatever EoS and whoever else after me posted]

I've been playing since SK came to Steam. While there's still a ton of people who've been playing longer, I can still say that I've been doing PvE and PvP for a relatively long time. For any lack of skill I may have, there's a veritable army of people who are much, much worse. I find your assumption that my sentiments on the polaris are out of ignorance to be disgustingly condescending. Hell, I own one myself - I just don't like using them due to how over-powered they are, and because it really pisses people off in groups in PvE.

Point being, I know damn-well how to run and dodge. Recons have a MSI decrease when using our cloaks, which break even from the freaking poison status. The bullets are large and have the largest range, which increases even further as it then explodes, making it hard to sneak around some guy blanket-firing without being detected. I'm not some 2-bit moron going "lone-gun Rambo" as a recon either, it becomes impossible to help my team in larger skirmishes because someone inevitably starts spamming and once a recon loses their cloak, strikers chew you up in seconds.

Your whole flanking strategy only works if you consider the guy with the polaris to be an idiot, even more so as a lone idiot, and at best a lone idiot in a wide open field or a map that allows flanking maneuvers. I have no problem with lone idiots. I kill said idiots all the time with a farking DVS. Smarter polaris spammers like EoS here, usually are also strikers with other OP weapons like the Gran Faust & Divine Avenger who can still 1HKO at close range and if not, have team mates who can. This is then compounded as most LD maps are built almost entirely of narrow corridors and choke points.

In honesty most of my anger stems from the recon class being so poorly thought-out instead of the gun itself. The "ultra-fragile cloak that slows players down (while still not hiding their foot steps), yet is essential to being useful as a recon" is just plain bad design considering that everyone else is a walking tank with wide, high-damage, sweeping weapons and boosters that regenerate instantly. But that's a different gripe for a different topic. Don't want to derail anything here.

However, I do play other classes and it is still an aggravating weapon. It annoys me that it can do essentially the same job as a shock alchemer without the need to actually aim or carefully lead targets while still proc'ing it's status effect as often if not more. It bothers me that it farks over bombers in the worst way possible in that it is both effective at killing them (which is fair considering that guns are good anti-bomber weapons in general) but also that it then goes on to prove a better area-denial weapon than most if not all bombs (RSS used to stand a chance, buuuuut...). Which then goes on to show a vein of hypocrisy in OOO's balancing system. As often lamented by bombers: a bomb that acted like a gun was removed and replaced with an inferior one while a gun that acts like a bomb was not only kept, but then got BUFFED along with the other guns.

Well, that's my 2-cents. I don't actually expect anything in that wall of text to change your opinions, but instead to give rationale for my loathing of this gun.

Also, in EoS's defence, that's what a suggestion is - a suggestion. It is what we think should be done to further improve the game. I don't get the impression that he was trying to "force" his opinion because he invited conversation on his ideas, something not done when some one "demands" something. That is the entire purpose of this forum: some one has an idea - they vocalize it here - people criticize said idea and give their own recommendations - if it's any good, OOO takes note of it and it goes into a mighty bucket filled of things they MIGHT do. Maybe.

For some context: From my experiences, EoS is a pretty decent LD player who only gets beyond that when he spams his polaris, which admittedly he is very good at. Him saying that the polaris needs a nerf is like the ku klux klan calling someone out for being too racist. As in, perhaps it's a bit hypocritical, but if he's saying it needs a nerf there's a good chance that means that something is seriously wrong.

Have to agree though, the "top tier" thing really does come off as kinda arrogant. All it takes to be a "pro" in LD anyways is just using high damage weapons like GF or DA to get a 20k score. I apologize in advance if it sounds like I'm hating on anyone. Consistently high damage for a few games makes anyone a "pro" regardless if they actually help out or not.

All being said, thanks for at least being civil.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:32

#52

Yvanblo

-1

Not that this post has any bearing on anything... Most of the complaints come from Lockdown players. I'm sorry, but Lockdown is only a small part of this game, and most don't play it.

I think Polaris is fine the way it is. I've said it before, I'll say it again, some weapons NEED to be more powerful than others. Ever heard of a sniper rifle? Ever heard of a howitzer? How about a nuclear bomb? Real life has overpowered weapons, so why is it hard to accept them in a game?

If anything, Lockdown needs to see changes that will help balance it. Most complaints about balance come from Lockdown players speaking directly about Lockdown. An easy solution is to have identical gear for all players according to the class they choose (striker, heavy, etc.). Problem solved, no need to nerf ANY gear.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 14:10

#53

Eater-Of-Worlds

@Rogue-Wolf

I'm not saying that because im pro, everyone else is automatically wrong, I'm just saying that there are a good amount of people who don't understand the game they play and compared to the experiences I have had while playing for over a year and a half other's experiences are quite limited and don't bring enough view points and information together in their view points. And tbh my messages should have the feel of "I'm right, you're wrong" when I am rebutting someone else. I like the thrill of an argument and I invite it into this thread because I am fairly certain that I can put off those who disagree with me. I come loaded with information and opinions to spit out and if it seems cocky then thats fine. If I'm being cocky, bring me off my high horse and prove me wrong, but until then, I'm gonna keep flaunting the A-Team GvG player.

I never said there was no self-improvement in PvE at all. I was implying that PvP offers a much more rigorous challenge in self-improvement. Missions are the same pretty much every time. Spawns are set to one place, attack patterns are set to a limited set, and movements are predicable of AI. After a while you are going to figure out the patterns and work against it with ease. Unlike in PvP, the enemy can't respond to your play style and work against it. PvP offers a whole different aspect of FPS fighting that PvE does not (however I wish it could) (#NeedMoreHardmode). In PvP you have more choices to how you can support a team and therefore more ways to perfect a play style. PvP is an arena for a sort of "fame". And it's that fame that calls people towards it. People want to be known to be good at PvP, and thats what draws people to it much more readily than to PvE.

"Theres only so many times..."
HAH I've died to Flourish and GF way more than polaris, so this accusation, if I may call it that, that I am just tired of dying by it is ridiculous. I'm not out to kill every weapon that kills me. I am just out to balance the weapons that have too easy of a time killing people with such little effort made by the player using it. Does a gunner, who only uses polaris, and is putting it every which way deserve the kills he/she gets on accident? Tell me yes and I'll challenge you to a 1v1, play you with only polaris, and then ask you how you feel.

Lastly I'm not forcing jack-s***. Not even forcing you to look at this thread, so don't even.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 14:23

#54

Eater-Of-Worlds

@Yavanblo

I'm not sure of the exact statistic of players who do PvP, and neither are you, so your assumption that most don't seems shotty. And don't forget that all the LD players who posted here HAVE TO PLAY PvE TOO. We don't just ignore PvE when we put out our suggestions. In fact many of us have been trying to make sure it doesn't ruin Polaris in PvE.

Slow down on the OP talk there. All of those things have drawbacks. Snipers have to be aimed so precisely. Howitzer must be used at long range and again accuracy skills. Atom bombs are super expensive and supply so many horrible after-effects that don't just affect the ones getting hit by the bomb. Don't be so quick to jump the gun, and also realize that there are plenty of things in real life that are meant to balance out the world and create peace. The United Nations is a great example. In America we celebrate the days we created more equality for our people. People constantly strive for balance in their lives, and what I am doing here is trying to balance out this weapon that I find to have very little drawback compared to other weapons.

Also if you make everything the same, you're essentially reaching a communist line of thought. You have to give people the freedom to personalize their gear.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 14:33

#55

Angerday

So by Yavanblo's suggestion.

So by Yavanblo's suggestion. he wants us to go over to a machine. and be able to put UV;s on armor, for free........or am i wrong?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 14:58

#56

Yvanblo

@Eater-Of-Worlds: If 60% or more don't play LD, I would say that "most don't play LD". I would venture a guess that it's more like 80% that don't play LD on a regular basis. Personally I like to get weapons in games (think Borderlands 1 &2) that are really cool, and take a lot of time and effort to get, and are powerful. Polaris is like that for me, it took me almost a year to finally craft it, and I love using it. Granted, I use it sparingly in parties, so no one complains. If it didn't do more damage than my standard damage gun, I wouldn't use it. I would simply stick with all the standard damage guns and call it a day, and save tons of CE and crowns, and get bored of this game in 6 months time.

I see your point about it being OP... in LD. But... why is that a problem? Why not find a way to overcome the polaris? Surely there must be a way to outsmart a polaris user. Or simply fight fire with fire. Except use Punch to roll some outrageous UV's on your own polaris.

@Angerday: How did you know I wanted free UV's? Actually, your putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that. Free UV's would make things worse than they have been described in this post. By the way, if BALANCE was the point of this game, UV's would not exist!!! Am I right? UV's were put into the game to make equipment better. You can't tell me that a polaris without any UV is as powerful as a polaris with CTR MAX, ASI MAX, Construct MAX. A polaris with those stats is, without exageration, OP. Pair that with the new Black Kat cowl, and you have yourself a wicked gun!

Still -1 on polaris nerf. If polaris wasn't supposed to shock lock enemies, why does it? OOO designed it that way.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:56

#57

Bacon-Strip

@Yvanblows

This logic is great.

Let's just pull examples from anything in real life or other game to apply to this game.

Who wants some Stars from Mario?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:06

#58

Eater-Of-Worlds

omg...the level of logic...

@Yvanblo The fact that Polaris can shock lock is why I want it fixed. idc if thats how OOO made it, because if it wasn't how they made it I wouldn't be suggesting to change it in the first place.
And where are you getting these BS statistics from. Stop pulling stuff out of your a** and claiming its fact.
Also I HAVE SPENT SO MUCH TIME TO COUNTER POLARIS. I BUILT A SET THAT IS IMMUNE TO THE SHOCK OF IT. I ALREADY SAID THIS BEFORE BUT YOU NO LISTEN. Also i have asi VH polaris myself, but what im trying to say in this thread is that i still find Polaris to be OP.
Lastly if you agree that it is OP, then you should realize that OP weapons can't be overcome easily at all.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:22

#59

Toralm

Dodging is an issue?

The shots from the Polaris are relatively slow. Its actually quite possible to sidestep it with the shield up (as a guardian). Strikers have no block so they run straight into it. And you can dodge it without a shield even more effectively. The fact that you want to nerf any weapon shows your selfish intention to make the game easier for you against other players.

When I'm guarding a station by myself, the Polaris is my best friend. I can't keep up with the *insane* speed of my opponents strikers and often oppressive numbers. I need a leveling mechanism. The answer: Polaris. People complain that is overpowered, but really its a decent weapon used effectively. The Gran Faust and Divine Avenger can end most opponents without trinkets in 2-3 hits. It would take 7-9 polaris shots to do the same thing. Why nerd the Polaris? Because its not a sword that Strikers with Skolver sets can use better than others. The fact that its not a sword makes every PvP elite sweat. Leave the Polaris alone. Spiral Knights is an Adventure game not a Player versus Player arena.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:52

#60

Yvanblo

ha ha ha

I think I missed something... pretty sure I didn't say "FACT: only 20% of all SK players play LD" I said: "I would venture a guess"

Yvanblows! I like it. Fit's me well. Will you not agree that the difference between LD and PvE is substantial? So then why not compare weapons to other games? The other games are obviously MUCH different, but my point is this: Powerful weapons are fun. If the chance of shock on a Polaris was as low as the chance of finding a Book dropped from a Black kat (slight exaggeration from what you suggested), why would anyone use Polaris? Might as well ban it from LD and save everyone who does not play LD the annoyance of losing a great gun (especially for solo play).

Would not a Storm Driver, or Voltaic Tempest with insane UV's and a master player be just as deadly as Polaris?

@Toralm: Well said.

Anyway, not much point in saying much more, so I'm not going to (besides I mostly such at this sort of thing). Still -1 for Polaris nerf.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 13:58

#61

Eater-Of-Worlds

First, and im not 100% on this, but I'm fairly sure polaris does 4-5pips of damage, making it 5 hit on striker to death (ill do testing and double check). The issue I find with this is the shock lock which can produce death in an instant if shots are being fired repeatedly.
Second, I've now said countless times that I am not someone who has problems dodging polaris, but I just find it way to easy to clear the field with the weapon. It takes hardly any thought to cover openings and put it all over a point.

Regardless of if the game is and adventure game or not, there needs to be balance made in both arenas. Just as people claim that I can't just abandon PvE, I am going to say that you can't abandon PvP. I would believe that 50% of players who get online play one game of LD or BN a day. The constant 40-90 players playing PvP at once should say something about its popularity. (and thats only on the US server)

All the constant comparisons to other games is stretched. I see where you come from when you are saying Borderlands has fun weapons, but how big is the PvP world for that? Not even big under a microscope. People normally just play it with friends and do an occasional fight for a weapon. The creators of that game don't really need to be concerned with how PvP works because it is not as big a deal compared to games like ours.

Lastly comparing the # of hits of polaris to GF is too much of a stretch. GF takes skill to use and can be evaded because of its slow nature. It also takes way more body positioning and has a longer downtime than polaris. Polaris is fast and can be put out rapid fire. Takes so much less thought it's ridiculous. I just want a way to make it require thought, to make it require skill to use. I still want to use Polaris after a nerf, because I love the weapon, whether it is a 2 shot clip or 3, whether it shocks all the time or never does, whether it will throw people across points or not, because I have invested into one myself. ASI VH to be exact. I'm not trying to trow away this weapon like you people assume me to do, I am just trying to create balance. Watch me any time of the day doing GvG, you'll see I have polaris, I love the weapon, I know all about its usefulness and its one downside of slow speed. I know I want it balanced, because it just makes things too easy. And when i say too easy I dont mean that I can get 30k damage with it every game. I mean that I can rack up damage that is undeserved because it used no thought to produce.

BONUS @Toralm If you get hit by one polaris shot, it locks you with shield up, and you will probably get hit by more and have yoru shield broken. BTW I played Guard exclusively for quite a long time in LD. I know the ins and outs, and I know it gets hairy when someone pulls out polaris. Gets worse when there are multiple people firing or covering each other. Getting spammed at is why I quit guard. People would straight up avoid coming into contact with me and just spam from a distance. Switched to striker so i could chase em down and cut them up xD

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 06:24

#62

Rogue-Wolf

@Spookington:My point was

@Spookington:

My point was not that you, in particular, hated on Polaris for your inability to play. My point was that a lot of complaints have the "over power".. uh.. ness, of the Polaris seem to mostly be people who walk into the shots, then shoot their mouth off with "Polaris spammer. lol. noob". The Polaris is, indeed, a powerful weapon, just that a large number of those who don't like seem to be totally unable to understand the concept of tactics.

Plus, I wasn't saying flanking is a foul proof method. I was stating it existed, and works to an extent. Other than strikers going around in circles around someone, I don't see flanking happening much. It's mostly "run and hit, then run away" (as a striker, mind you).

I'm not here to comment on the crappiness of the Recon class. Heck, that's an issue with the class, not the weapons that, ironically, are designed to counter them.

I was probably harsh with the "force" thing. I apologise.

I do, however, have one question for you..... who the heck is EoS? Isn't "EoW" more accurate, or am I missing something? O.o

@Eater-Of-Worlds:
-omitted-

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 10:27

#63

Yvanblo

One last thought @Eater-Of-Worlds

Take a look at this page: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Spiral Knights:

Current Players
1,349

Peak Today
1,446

This is on Steam only. If 90 people are playing at any given time (how often are there 90 or more playing LD? If I try to play, the numbers are more like 20 playing and 10 waiting), that's only ~6% of the players from Steam alone. Ok, I'm sure that more people play than 6%, and of course not everyone plays all the time. But if there are as many or more players not using steam (probably several times more players outside of Steam), I would have a VERY hard time believing that 50% of all SK players play lockdown every day, or even every other day.

I play two or three games of LD every 6 months of so, I'm an average person in almost every area of life, so I would bet that most SK players play LD about the same as I do. In all honesty, if I want to play capture the flag, I'm going to fire up Unreal Tournament 2003! UT2K3 does not cost 200 crowns to play a match :)

DISCLAIMER: I am not stating facts about percentages, but I am trying to back up my assumptions and guesses with actual data.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 13:51

#64

Eater-Of-Worlds

Replies

@ Rogue He calls me EoS, which is a monster found in the Corruption, Eater-Of-Souls. EoW must be fought in the Corruption where EoS can spawn.

@Yvanblo Alright, I can accept the fact that there are people who don't play LD all the time or even ever, but I still think that PvP should be treated the same as PvE and vise versa. Also that's fine if you don't enjoy PvP and would rather go to other games for it. It's also fine that you like Polaris the way it is. Now what I am going to say next is in no way meant to take a shot at you or anyone else who prefers PvE, but wouldn't it seems logical for me to say that PvE players don't want the weapon nerfed because it would make it harder for them, that they want the Polaris to be able to solve any sticky situation? After all, I have been claimed to have been trying to make LD easier for myself by taking out a weapon that requires great reaction time and skill to out maneuver. Isn't it only fair that I can say the same thing?

Not to be offensive to anyone, but the friends that I hang out with in SK, we are all fairly talented at PvE and PvP. We run missions, SL, and try to get LD matches together. We enjoy doing all of it, but we are mainly only concerned with PvP because we find PvE too easy. We call each other nubs if we die in a SL, we straight up laugh out loud if someone dies in FSC, etc etc. It has become easy to us. PvE just doesn't seem to require as much constant self-improvement and I don't think it requires Polaris either. I honestly hate using it in PvE because its just a monotonous-2-shot-pause while railing monsters against walls and each other. Takes so little skill, so little thought. I'd prefer it to require me to think as much as I do when I calculate out an alchemer shot in my head. I just don't see why PvE needs it to be so powerful.

Lastly, another good reason for a nerf is the fact that Polaris does basically the same damage as Supernova, which shouldn't be the case at all.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 14:03

#65

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

The old RSS functioned the way OOO made it. OOO doesn't like bombers, bombs, or bomb related things. OOO nerfs the feces out of the old RSS. OOO makes up bull crap saying it wasn't bomb like. Polaris explosions have higher AOE than shard bomb explosions. Polaris doesn't get the feces nerfed out of it.

Just putting it out there.

bomber love ♥

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 14:22

#66

Eater-Of-Worlds

+1 for Shards

They overly nerfed that bomb. I can agree with the, didn't act like a bomb, but they destroyed it completely. Shard bombs need a stat boost.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 15:11

#67

Yvanblo

hhmmmm

I keep telling myself to quite responding, but I always have more thoughts, and it's good to discuss things and get multiple points of view (I might even change my mind a bit... who knows).

I will agree that Polaris is perhaps a little too good at what it does. But for me, that's what makes it fun. I would hate to see it nerfed and made into a gun that is only as good as any standard damage gun. The Polaris has two things going for it; Shock and elemental damage. Do you not absolutely love destroying turrets with it?!?! So much satisfaction. If Polaris was THE sole reason that EVERYONE won in LD, I would say it needs some nerfing done to it, but can you honestly say it's the reason for a team winning in LD? I know nothing about winning in LD, but seriously, what percentage is the Polaris responsible for winning matches in LD? Why not simply ban it from LD if it's responsible for winning every match? On the flip side, if it's not responsible for the majority of wins in LD... what difference does it make. Seems like I hear about the infamous "toothpick, skolver clones" doing most of the damage, is that right, or am I way off again?

One thing confuses me. Why is it ok for the Supernova to have lots of damage, but not Polaris? I saved up my crowns and sacrificed a days worth of energy for a powerful weapon that helps me have more fun (a way that I have more fun in games is to deal MASSIVE amounts of damage to unsuspecting enemies!).

@Oatmonster: OOO does hate bombs. In OOO world, Sword > Gun > Bomb. I think they did it on purpose since in real life, and many other games, it's the other way around. I shrug my shoulders and keep looking for Black Kats.

I might have to try out the Supernova... do people hate that one too? Or is it just Polaris that people hate on and call it OP?

OOO will do whatever they like with any of the weapons. I'm always a day late and a dollar short anyway, and I'll keep playing even if my beloved Polaris made to be no better than my Super Blaster.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 16:05

#68

Spookington

@EoW & Roguewolf

Actually, I derp'd out and mistakenly used the initials for "Echo of Silence" (and Eater-of-Souls, who really is a monster of a player) instead of the initials for "Eater-of-Worlds". Funny thing, I usually proof-read what I write before posting, so I'm actually quite puzzled myself how I missed that one multiple times.

Derpy, derpy, derp, derp, derp.

[More specifically] @Roguewolf: Fair enough. Because your points on flanking and not-charging-into-shots-like-a-scrub strategy were right below the paragraph where you addressed me specifically, I assumed you were implying that I kept dying via Darwinism.

@yvanblo: Actually, there's a good chunk of people who do just the opposite - Clockworks runs are used to fund continuous games of LD, which after PvE has been milked for all of it's challenge, becomes the predominant reason to keep playing this game. Hell, if I couldn't experiment with odd weapon/gear combos I would have stopped playing months ago.

Also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28BXqQWqYJU

It's in your blood!

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 16:13

#69

Eater-Of-Worlds

@Yvanblo

People don't hate on supernova as much because it does not have the ability to shock lock people to death. Requires the one using it to think about the knock-back that it will have on each bullet. Plus standard LD gear has normal def to withstand it, unlike polaris which is elemental.

Polaris wins games in GvG because it can completely lock off points from the opponent. RLD not so much, because people are usually more focused on damage than actually capping. GvG is more centered on holding those points because everyone on the team (should) understands the goal of capping and holding points.

Flourish usage has fallen off since they shortened the range of it. Not sure why, but its popularity has dropped and GF and DA have stepped up a lot. People pretty much always have it, but I have been seeing heavy use of GF over FF. But the GF has drawbacks that I like to take advantage of so yeah.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 06:39

#70

Rogue-Wolf

A fair idea: Drop shock from

A fair idea:

Drop shock from Polaris. Change Supernova to shadow instead of normal.

The result:

Pulsar line is an area denial version of the Antigua line.

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 03:38

#71

Pawsmack

@OP/Eater-Of-Worlds

"As to the damage comparison of Polaris to Combuster, guns are ranged weapons meant to allow a player to keep distance and have an easier time evading attacks. Because of this, guns are purposely set to lower damage outputs. Combuster should always do more damage than Polaris. If it was the other way around, Polaris would have been nerfed forever ago."

OK... You just said that swords are stronger than guns yet you believe that Polaris should get a nerf even though the bullets are slow and easy to dodge, especially since you're a pro and you know what you're doing.

My best guess is that more than half of the Lockdown community wants to be a pro and they actually realize that they're not. But sometimes it gets out of hand and they really believe it. Then they have that exact same thought that all "pro's" do. "I'm so good I bet I can dodge these slow pulses and kill this guy in no time.". Not to mention... They have swords and a Striker boost.

And guess what? Swords are stronger than guns and range doesn't matter because that Strike Boost makes you so fast that you actually can out-speed those slow and chunky pulses then get to the guy who's using it in no time. Now you tell me who on earth is the dominant.

Oh and one more thing. I'm not going off of PvE facts anymore since you seem so fixed on Lockdown.

@Rogue-Wolf

Wow exactly what I was thinking. Make Supernova deal shadow damage and only nerf the shock chance of Polaris to lower its DPS.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 20:09

#72

Atacii

...

People write too much...

Polaris is overpowered in lockdown because the bullets are so huge. So just fix the problem and make the bullets normal sized so only the explosion would have a larger hitbox. Polaris would no longer be OP in PVP, while remaining much the same in PVE.

I always thought a gun that shoots ROLLING EXPLOSIONS was kinda ridiculous anyways.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 20:59

#73

Njthug

When will you realize baby I am not like the rest =0

Just an idea:

Seems like players really just want to see a nerf on the Polaris in Lock Down, but just my thoughts on Polaris and Lockdown

In most games guilds/clans/etc. have a written or unwritten rule of honor.

Example:
Do not "crash" an ongoing fight or kill the weaken winners from the other team (In games that do not have a designated area for guilds to fight)

Example in Lockdown:

Echo of Silence vs Impervious ---- Majority of our fights are pretty clean no one spending 30 Ce/Me on Rev's. We all understand not to use the polaris constantly and have fun with other guns (honestly the other guns are more useful tbh to take down bombers). What we get in return: Clean fights, fun, and well pretty much overall skill battle instead of which guild can fight like a little sissy and win.

I think it is kinda pathetic that the devs need to nerf a gun just because players in spiral knights can not play PvP (Lockdown) without using the polaris (or any other guns in the same family), especially when you see 90% of them spam in in full skolver lol since we all know gunning gear tends to work a lot better if all you will be doing is spamming a gun.

Now you can argue hey the dev's put it in the game so we can abuse it etc.:

I guess that is a great argument, but then again suing McDonalds since it makes you obese is also a great argument lol.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 21:00

#74

Njthug

So let me give your heart a break let me give your heart a break

Oooo See this is the spam Polaris causes

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 21:38

#75

Bora-Dori

+1. I like the points that

+1. I like the points that have been made, especially reducing the clip to 2... I haven't read all the replies but if it hasn't been mentioned yet, why not implement invincible frames when you are hit during shock duration?

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 21:40

#76

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

I think the most appropriate change would be to drop the clip to two, and instead of increasing AOE over distance, just increase the damage.

@Tmdals, I think it would be great if you had invincibility frames during shock. Make poison remove your invincibility frames.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 21:56

#77

Fropps

I think either reduced

I think either reduced bullet speed or a 2 shot clip would bring it in line with other guns.

Just my opinion.

They could buff other guns to the stats of da polaris :}

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 22:18

#78

Troupe-Forums

@Post number 77

And then comes the era of shadowsun clones

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 00:11

#79

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

@Troupe-Forums, Unlikely, too many of the clones today can't aim a gun to save their lives, not to mention without auto target.

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 04:36

#80

Uncosung

pewpewpewpew

In my professional opinion, I firmly believe that the Polaris should not only not be nerfed, it should be buffed. It requires the same base attack speed as the Antigua line, and also the same 6 shot clip. Also, each shot explodes into 4 slightly weaker shots, as is the 5* Alchemer charge attack. Oh and everyone who uses a Polaris gets a 50k CE stipend each week for being part of the master race. And finally, the most necessary of all buffs, when you use a Polaris charge attack, 10 million crowns are added to your bank so you can get das ASI+CTR VH, and also in PvP, the other team dies. Forever.

-Uncosung, Esq., Professor of Applied Quantum Polaris at Hurvurd University.

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 12:47

#81

Lightyourfire

All good points you made there but one...

As for the range, it definitely has one of, if not the, highest ranges of all guns. I agree that with the other reductions proposed, the extra range will be fine, but I'm just pointing out that it's not the same as all the other guns

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 14:10

#82

Thunder-The-Bright

actually

the range is the same of the antigua line, but the explosion makes it a block more. I think.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 16:35

#83

Ventaurei

+1 to the idea -1 to those who doesnt give proper reasoning

I agree with the post and what Tmdals commented." +1. I like the points that have been made, especially reducing the clip to 2."

I don't understand how people are saying -1 with reasoning about some guildplay. . .we are talking about the POLARIS in general here. agree with it or not. If you guys disagree don't reason out like the thread "spirit of the game", please talk about the gun.

I really like the prismatic color shots to help players distinguish it.

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 22:52

#84

Eater-Of-Worlds

Replies (sorry for the delay)

@Pawsmack yup, just ignore what i was saying before when i said i was trying to protect it from being overly nerfed for PvE. Though I don't think a nerf would hurt it that much considering how easily it can smack around enemies in PvE. May take a little longer to kill enemies than swording them up close, but it gets the job done with a low amount of risk to your health.
Yes swords are stronger and should be that way. They require more risk because of the need to be up close and the momentary loss of ability to move. Guns can be used from a distance and can be fired fairly rapidly. Slow-moving does not mean easy to dodge when someone is putting polaris out in succession. Still can make it tough to get the the gunner, especially if they are striker(which many of them are). Oh and btw, gunners can be strikers in case you hadn't realized. They can boost away the same way swordsman can boost at them. Gunners can out maneuver swordsmen in the same fashion that swordsman try to. Gunners can be just as dominant, though I will admit that it does take more skill to be a great gunner because of the need to aim ahead and react to enemy movements quickly.
Just a statement to provoke thought: Compare bombers to gunners(who have polaris). How hard is it to be a successful bomber because of polaris?

@Njthug As Vent said I'd prefer this thread be kept to a discussion of polaris not guilds or spirit of the game. Also, just for the record, I also enjoy LD without a lot of polaris. Easier to fight some good 1v1's and such. TBH I wouldn't mind having my polaris replaced by biohazard because I like the slow speed of the bullet (helps with canceling attacks from chasers). That being said I still like using polaris. It gets the job done when it comes to capping and deferring opponents.
Choosing to use polaris and abuse it doesn't have a negative side that is quite like getting fat from eating McD's.
I just want polaris nerfed, I don't want some unspoken rule banning it, and trying to put down anyone that uses it. Someone I know who rages a lot tries to do this and imo its just rude to yell at kids and curse n such. Not exactly the best way to try to fix the situation. Easier to just get everyone together and put in suggestions in a large enough force for OOO to notice.

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