Spiral Knights - I'm not done campaigning to get shard bombs fixed yet

I'm not done campaigning to get shard bombs fixed yet

19 replies [Last post]

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 07:15

Zeddy

So the things need a buff. Let's see what we can do.

First of all, since bombers always keep saying they want an elemental damage-bomb without knockback, let's do that. Let's make the shard bombs do no knockback. Good. Two more things is to remove the hit limit entirely and also let shards fly over low walls.

Now, I propose that we buff the damage of the core blast. Just a little bit. It's currently 70 damage against neutral enemies, but let's bump it up just a liiiitle bit up to 350. Sounds good? Sounds good. To compensate for the increased damage, we'll nerf its range a little bit. Not a whole lot, mind, it's not like it had a lot of range in the first place. We're also reducing the amount of shards spread from 8 to 4. However, damage of each shard is bumped up a little bit from 95 to 133.

I'm not entirely done yet. Fuse time is reduced on the core blast from what seems to be about 1 second to, oh, I dunno, 0.2 seconds. Also, instead of planting the bomb, it gets thrown. And if it makes contact with an enemy, it also explodes. The shards will fly out from the proj- I mean bomb when it hits the enemy and those shards will also detonate on contact. However, the shards will harmlessly disappear if they don't make contact with an enemy after about a quarter of a second. To compensate for this, shards will bounce with walls..

Also, there should be three additional elemental shard bomb lines: Fire, freeze and shock. They will have slightly reduced damage but have good chance of causing moderate status.

Also they'll have a regular attack where the core blast deals the same damage as regular shards but there'll only be one shard flying out from the blast instead of four.

Did any of that sound overpowered to anyone?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 07:20

Fleet-Miss-Gun

Great but OOO hates

Great but OOO hates bombers.

It will never happen.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 07:22

Little-Juances

Since you only want 4 "shards", I guess we could play a little with the shapes.
Give half of them a + spread and an X for the others.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 08:14

Nineball-Seraph

This is lol.

You guys get it yet?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 08:27

Infernoburner

Inferno approves.

+1, because the new shard bombs are crap.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 09:20

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

Sweet re-balance! While we're at it, let's also fix the Deadly Dark Matter bomb.

I was thinking we could first bump up the damage on the initial blast to lets say 600 on slimes and gremlins, let's say 500 constructs and beast. But wait, what if we could make it split normal-shadow? Then those two damage values would stay the same but the damage on undead and fiends would be 300 ish. Who cares if that's more damage then it already does against gremlins and jellies, this is balance we're talking about! We should also make the fuse time about .2 seconds, like the crystal bomb. If we're making the fuse shorter, we probably should make the AOE smaller, but nah, let's make it bigger! Let's also move it infront of the player so that the player doesn't take up any precious space in the AOE.

Hmm, it seems like we're making this a little too powerful. It's ok, let's just take away one of the secondary explosions. But now it seems too weak, I know; let's make each of the explosions bigger! And shorten their fuse times too! And bump up the neutral damage to around 160! That's about as much damage as it currently does on gremlins and slimes, but who cares! Oh, but if we moved the AOE off the center of the player, we should do the same for the secondary explosions. Let's put them all in a line so it's easy to hit the same enemy with the primary and all 5 secondaries.

Hmm, we've been focusing an awful lot on the charge attack, let's do some work on the normal attack. That's right, it has a normal attack now. Let's make it a 3 hit combo, and give it around 280 on the first two and 370. Man, all of these new numbers we're comming up with are higher than all of the original damage numbers! Isn't this great for swordsm- I mean bombers?

To top it all off, let's remove that pesky movement speed decrease while charging, that just gets in the way.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 09:28

Aureate

I lol'd.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 09:37

Sir-Pandabear

Damn you, Oatmonster. I was going to do that next post.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 09:56

Doctorspacebar

Good one, Zeddy. I totally agree- Gun and Sword charges are ridiculous compared to the new Shard Bombs.

Just to make sure everyone gets this, I'm going to spell it out- as much for Three Rings as for the players, since Three Rings doesn't seem to be looking at their own game's balancing issues and is instead taking a policy of anti-Bomb paranoia that traces itself to Beta when bombs were drastically different. Yes, I'm spoiling the joke, but at this point it's been used up since Brandishes and Alchemers are the most comparable to Shard Bombs.

Zeddy's spelling out what the Nova Driver charge attack can do, and comparing it to the Deadly Crystal Bomb charge attack, which is not only fairly lame in comparison, but is also its only attack where the Nova Driver, which has the same damage type, and the same cost to make (even the same 5* Material), has a normal attack as well.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 10:10

Xenonguard

And fix the Bugs!

For one, make the Roarmulus Twins on an invisible inaccessible platform, that the secondary shards can land on.
Also, remove the 3 shard max damage thing, though I'm not sure if it's even possible to get that to happen.

If they don't add this, I'll drop a Dark Matter Bomb into a cake and send it to OOO.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 12:38

#10

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

@Unstable-Ordinance, They wouldn't mind that, the shards would touch the cake and mysteriously disappear. They would also ignore every offense you commit after that, because you know, you sent them cake.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 14:32

#11

Persef

Subject not found.

This.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:29

#12

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

It's currently 70 damage against neutral enemies, but let's bump it up just a liiiitle bit up to 350. Sounds good? Sounds good

*from far away*nooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

*running*

*pant* *pant*

it does not sounds good, it's doing more than my Nitronome in dmg max, what are you trying to do? Destroy the main bombs line? Elemental dmg type bomb = Ash of Agni

To compensate for the increased damage, we'll nerf its range a little bit. Not a whole lot, mind, it's not like it had a lot of range in the first place.

Oh okay so that make sense, shards become the most powerful dmg-output bomb so well nerf the range... What about Graviton and Electron Vortex?

We're also reducing the amount of shards spread from 8 to 4. However, damage of each shard is bumped up a little bit from 95 to 133.

So more damage output. You can do like 500 dmg output with your Shard bombs minimum basically. Now the Blast Bomb line is useless

/slowclap

Edit: there need to be a certain balance in this. The shard initial blast must be low but the aftermath must overthrow normal bombs if you got it right, I was thinking a wider radius, shorter blast radius for the 2nd blast but 12 shards instead of 8. If you can get 3-4 bombs to explode next to someone it would be devastating (kinda like a little thud in the middle with a ring of main explosion around it)

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:29

#13

Luguiru

Agni may deal element damage in what little area the actual blast which inflicts the damage has but its main feature is inflicting fire. Same goes for the other Vaporizers for whatever status they have. You may as well say Ironmight is meant for pierce defense and Swiftstrike is for tanking normal damage.

Open the link in the original post. Everything will make sense.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:40

#14

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

I don't think there should be a blast elemental dmg bomb... The reason is simple, they are blast bomb, they are made to do normal dmg and just blow people to pieces, they are not specific dmg output bomb.

The shards are, so +1 to the fire and freeze, but there's already a shock one...

I just don't want the Shards to become the most powerful initial dmg bomb, the blast should remain the strongest "blast" but shards must be modified, they are too weak. And some shards dmg type should be as good as the other line, currently Dark Retribution just destroys as Shadow bomb. (saying this makes me realize I should do Deadly Splinter Bomb next...)

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:00

#15

Aureate

Shamanala?

Maybe you somehow managed to miss all of the other stuff pointing to this fact.
If so, I'll spell it out for you nice and obviously:

This is a joke thread.

For those of you who did not get the joke:
The weapon Zeddy refers to already exists. He linked to it in his first post, just in case it wasn't obvious enough.
The weapon Oat refers to also exists. He also linked to it in the post, just in case it wasn't obvious enough.

Apparently people have no sense of humour any more.
I will now go and weep quietly in a corner.

Edit: I own both weapons; whilst I agree that the latter is overpowered and could do with some considerable tweaking, I would argue that the former has some merit to staying the way it is, since using it well does require some modicum of skill. In comparison, the latter can just be chargespammed, even on enemies that are resistant to the damage type, and will still kill things reasonably safely and quickly.
Although I do admit that shard bombs could do with something of a boost.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:01

#16

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

After this kind of Thread: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/70404

I'm not surprise if someone genuinely asked for these modifications on the Shard bomb...

Edit: From the very moment I saw a Bomber Mecha Charge in T3 I wanted something similar.

I wish there was a certain "ring" explosion line bomb (but like a round wall of multiple blast going on around you)

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:02

#17

Aureate

...point

but Zeddy has a reputation for not being a complete moron, at least. (Although some people might say that going into LD with Ancient Plate, Sudaruska and a Venom Veiler was questionable in intelligence, I suppose.)

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:08

#18

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

Erm, didn't actually put a link in my post, but props for figuring out which OP weapon it was.

People look at these concepts and say "Holy crap that is the most OP thing I have ever seen;" but then see the same thing on a sword or gun, and they think it's fine.

Bomber love ♥

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 13:22

#19

Aureate

@Oat

Psh, everyone knows that killing stuff from a distance is way more OP than killing stuff closer u-

oh wait

Personally I would not object to having a projectile-producing bomb. I like my new ISB, true, but then the old version sucked sweaty spheres so hard it was unbelievable; it also seems highly unreasonable to leave an entire weapon type completely incapable of killing a boss. This game is meant to be completable any way you like, difficulty rating notwithstanding, and therefore it seems unreasonable that an otherwise perfectly valid series of bombs, that fully upgrades to 5*, and has 6 different versions, is rendered completely useless in such a situation where even the most basic 0* item is capable of finishing it off (even though it would take an exorbitantly long time if you used a Proto Bomb).

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I'm not done campaigning to get shard bombs fixed yet