blame OPEC

Its more like people just finished buying all the Regalia's that they've wanted and will "hold of buying more energy" till the next offer. The price stability for the previous week was due to this offer alone. Now that interest in the offer or the offer itself has ended the runaway inflation of crowns will continue.

Onmy - Shut up. Don't parrot everyone else.

That isn't the end-all-be-all response to anything market related, you ponce. After a large influx of supply, we saw a drop in prices, but now there's an absurd spike in price that does not match up with the normalized market rate of increase. We were seeing 1k CE per 100 Energy increase every two weeks or so, not 1200 in 2 days.

Except a lot of people bought energy, probably sold their Regalia pieces, and have lots of energy. Less Demand/More Supply.

If there is less demand, and more supply, in theory sellers should drop their prices to increase sales and therefore cash flow.
I believe the problem is that people bought a bunch of energy, and sold a lot during he Rose Regalia event, and now just dont care if it gets sold or not, and so raised prices to increase profit margins. of course, People who want to buy Ce with crowns are often not able or willing to buy said Ce with cash.. and thus, need to buy Ce, regardless of crown price. So, Ce keeps getting sold regardless of the price and sellers are finally realizing this. So they continue to raise prices, and continue raising their profits.

My point is, supply and demand is a little more complicated than many people think, especially when you have three different currencies involved. Basically, Overall market Demand is still there (the sum of all individuals participating in a market's ability and willingness to buy a product) and the Supply of product has increased: unfortunately, the increase in supply has no change in market demand in this case. So suppliers can charge however much they want, and people will buy it.

SUMMARY (for those of whom have no interest in economics):Ce is like oil, people. and its getting near 5 dollars a gallon, and people will still buy it, cos everything runs off of it. Its that simple.

@Stray_Cat
SUMMARY (for those of whom have no interest in economics):Ce is like oil, people. and its getting near 5 dollars a gallon, and people will still buy it, cos everything runs off of it. Its that simple.

Except there's also biodiesel and ethanol, to say nothing of electric engines. The governments are just too busy getting kick backs from the oil magnates to care about helping to developing these alternatives for the public, and precious few people know about these alternatives and demand it. Fight the power!

>.>

The point remains rather valid though, people will buy gas because they need it, even if it costs $1.50/L

Generally demand is going to stay constant or get higher with new players, while offer is going to diminish when people don't need crowns, or prefer to save in ce, or don't feel it's necessary to pay cash anymore, or any other reason.

Your always going to need CE, people who payed RL cash for CE know theyre still going to need more to extend how long they can run elevators.
I think the price will rise where T3 is the only way you can do a clockwork run, rebuy your CE and have extra crown left over.
New players will be relying on mist only, saving what little CE they can buy to buy new armour, if they can be bothered waiting that long to advance.

The less new players coming in will mean less sales for traders, less income through trades so why sell CE when theres smaller oppotunities to remake what you lose.

As everyone keeps saying, supply and demand. With a large % of the supply never reaching the market, and the demand ever increasing i dont see why so many people think it is going to level out at an amount that will promote new players to stay, or atleast stay long enough to pay.

I know theres no point critisizing something without adding in some kind of suggestions.

Theres all ready too many CE sinks compared to Cr sinks, to the point where trading CE for Cr is pretty much pointless, unless you plan to keep on paying, eventually you will be rebuying CE off market, and if price only rises, then youll be rebuying at a loss compared to your sales.

- Maybe if a small amount of CE from any crafting went onto the market, the crowns theyre bought with just disappear. this adds a lil downward pressure to CE and upward pressure on Cr. Not enough to collapse the CE market by any means.
Theres already way too many CE sinks, and nearly any consistent Cr sinks.

The only reason i see so far for converting CE into Cr is impatience, and so far, was the only reason i put any at all on there. I dont see the point in selling any other then that. Im going to need more later on down the line to continue on elevators, or to craft. As i said,me selling any now, with the market going up means ill be buying it back at a loss. Or needing to constantly pay more then its worth to play this game longterm.

And before ppl say im whining cos im a freeplayer or i wanna play to much, i put 70$ into the game within a week of starting.
But even as a paying player, i think the way things are now, and where this is heading will make this a pay only game.

Ive invited a few ppl early on who played a while and as prices rose played less and now have stopped, other ppl who ive tried to invite dont play more then 2-3 days.

Promoting reasons to pay is fine, if new players are getting frustrated before they get to a point where they might wanna pay is a little pointless.

energy why is it becoming so expensive.

Because people are selling it higher and others are buying that higher price.

Mo' money mo' money mo' money.

I was not mentioning gas prices right now. I was mentioning the cost of oil because it is similar for this Ce. Great, gas prices are down like, 10% or whatever you said. That has nothing to do with me using oil as a metaphor for Ce, or vice versa.

Although CE prices are going higher and higher, there is another side to the story for aspiring new players. As the game has matured less people need crowns etc--that argument. Many of these same people are crafting in mass searching for UV's. So say the new player is strapped for CE because it's now 5k per 100. Well, the new player can now get a wolver coat/helm for 1.5-2k. They can have someone upgrade them (crafters mats) to dusker for 6k by offering to let crafter keep UV if it happens and buying normal dusker, etc.

But lets just look at the wolver example :) If you buy 100 CE for 5k a wolver set for total 3k, and a calibur for 2k, and an owlite or defender for 4k. You know got wolver coat/cap, calibur, shield and 100 CE for 14k.

When i started CE was 3600, a wolver coat/cap combo was 6k if you were thrifty, owlite shield was 3k, caliber was 3k. Thats 15.6k for wolver gear, shield, sword 100 CE.

So i think reaching t2 is cheaper than it used to be, which could explain some of the rise in CE cost as well.

No need to get pissed off. you said "Also- don't mention gas prices. They have nothing to do with it. That is a problem of speculation, and it's stupid. The cost of oil has actually been lowered by like, 10% in the past few months, and yet we still see a rise in the price of gas"

Sorry, I misread you. No need to get worked up about it. Plus I did add a "or whatever you said" when I mentioned your comment as gas prices. Kind of like... you know, whatever you said. I certainly wasn't quoting you.

As for metaphors: 'Metaphor is the concept of understanding one thing in terms of another. A metaphor is a figure of speech that constructs an analogy between two things or ideas, the analogy is conveyed by the use of a metaphorical word in place of some other word. For example: "Her eyes were glistening jewels." Metaphors compare things WITHOUT using "like" or "as."' (courtesy of Wikipedia, my emphasis)

Here is what I said: "Ce is like oil, people. and its getting near 5 dollars a gallon, and people will still buy it, cos everything runs off of it. Its that simple."

By god, you are right. It ISN'T a metaphor. its a simile, a different kind of figure of speech. I humbly ask for your forgiveness for making such an egregious mistake. I am sorry for not yet finishing my evidently sub-decent education, and that its focus is not that of figures of speech. Unfortunately, I haven't really had to worry about the different figures of speech since high school.

As for me contradicting myself... Where?

I think Leviathan pretty well covered the real reasons, with one exception:

5) OOO introduced the Flourish line of swords. I know lots of people who went out and crafted them (no premade sellers yet), causing a lot of crown sinks in recipes. It also the triggered the "gotta have it now!" feeling, which likely caused people to sell CE to get the crowns needed, and/or to buy more CE so they could craft them.

After the new-shiny of the Rose Regalia and the Flourish swords was over, the cr<->CE exchange rate returned to its steady climb up. Again, I suspect it could go as high as twice the crowns earned in a T1 or an upper T2 run, so around 6k-9k cr to 100 CE. (That is, players will use their free 100 mist to run gates, then take what they earned yesterday plus today's run to buy another 100 CE. After that, they have spent enough time on the game anyway, so they stop for the night.) My guess is that it will not quite reach that level, probably stopping around 6k.

"Again, I suspect it could go as high as twice the crowns earned in a T1 or an upper T2 run, so around 6k-9k cr to 100 CE. (That is, players will use their free 100 mist to run gates, then take what they earned yesterday plus today's run to buy another 100 CE. After that, they have spent enough time on the game anyway, so they stop for the night.) My guess is that it will not quite reach that level, probably stopping around 6k."

This assumes that the balance of spending power is in the hands of people who are at least moderately comfortable with this playstyle.

Which could easily be true.

But, out of curiosity, why is that your assumption? Just, it matches you experience with the game, or is there more to it?

If you can't read properly, then you shouldn't be a part of the forums. It makes you look dumb if you don't read everything before opening your mouth. And quite frankly, I'm tired of people who can't read at all on the forums. If you're going to make a comment on what I said, at least have the decency to get it right.

I haven't had to deal with figures of speech since high school, either, imagine that. And yet, I still know the difference between them.

As for you contradicting yourself, I was expecting you to respond with something a lot more stupid than you did. Because that's what most people do on these forums. That's where the "Go ahead and" came in- you haven't yet contradicted yourself. It was in anticipation of you doing so.

@RapBreon: I'm a girl, not a "he," but I'm not nearly old enough for menopause. It's called menstruation. And no, I don't have a craving for chili.

@Heshan: I haven't really noticed an increase in crowns for Tier 3. I usually end up with fewer crowns, actually. The levels leading up to Vanaduke yield about the same as the levels leading up to Jelly King, though (which is kind of sad, because there are double the amount of levels to get to Vanaduke).

Though I suppose if you were to do a Tier 1 --> Core run, you would be able to get around 15-20k, easy. Assuming no deaths, doing that would cost you around 230 energy (maybe a bit more, depending on if you opened energy gates/danger zones as well). With the current price around 5000, you would be able to buy 300 or 400 CE with your crowns. That's ultimately a net gain of between 70-170 CE. Is this what you were referring to?

Based on that, though, CE prices really shouldn't get too much higher than 7k, or it's not going to be profitable. It'll probably still be self-sustaining at 8k, but I think it would be better to have it stabilize at 7k. It would really hurt new players, who can only get 3-4k in Tier 1, though. With mist energy alone, they'd only be able to get through 1 full Tier 1 run, and a little under half of one (and they'd have to play through the less profitable levels of Tier 1). So on their 100 mist energy, they'd probably only be able to make 5k, which wouldn't be enough to continue playing for free. And I'm sure that would turn a lot of people off to this game. Because really, who wants to drop real money into a game they hardly know anything about?

People who misread things on the forum, or who people who have a s*** attitude every time they open their mouths?

Its a forum for a computer game. I have more important things to worry about, like real life. I read quickly what I can, when I can, which is not terribly often. I really don't get on this forum to take things in with an overly serious manner. Its a computer game. Really, it is.

Frankly, I dislike your attacks on my intelligence, ability to read, and education level, none of which you are actually in a position to judge. I apologized for misreading what you said, I did it quickly and hastily due to my time constraints. However, you attacking me personally over something I said in error on the internet is not a reasonable or appropriate response. I would prefer if you corrected me, and moved on with the discussion, and with life in general. I personally consider it a waste of time to attack people I don't actually know. I'm sure you are intelligent, educated, and mature enough to realize the various reasons of why that may be.

As for expecting me to make a more stupid rebuttal than I did, merely because people on a forum say stupid things... Some people are not as intelligent as others. that is not their fault. However, being polite and respectful is a choice, a personal choice that we all have. In the future, please choose to be respectful and polite to other people. I am sure others beside myself would appreciate you doing so.

There are two things that I find sad/hilarious/annoying all at the same time about online forum discussions. The first is ad hominem attacks- it announces to the world that the poster is out of ideas, lazy, a douche/troll or some combination of the three. The second is the "oh excuse me I'm busy in RL"- it is as good as saying you were either too lazy to think things through, or too proud to admit you were wrong.

Anyway, carry on. Energy threads are most amusing to read.

It is my guess that with a real auction house the average price of materials will come way down. As it is I see a glut of sellers and not many buyers. With an auction house, all these sellers will be competing on price. Maybe this will have the effect of bringing ce prices down? I dunno.

Nope. Lower prices on materials means more crowns chasing the same amount of CE, hence CE prices will rise (assuming other variables remain constant). Although, we all know that economists have a terrible track record- there is simply too much going on, even in a relatively simple environment such as Spiral Knights. You have to worry about all sorts of other influences too, like an influx of new players, or a promotional special- all of these can have a large effect on the market.

But as a whole, if we consider the various sources and sinks of crowns and CE, prices should keep rising- more crowns are entering than leaving, and more CE is leaving than entering (or at least, it's not keeping pace with the former). It doesn't take a genius to realize that the price of CE (in crowns) is going to go up.

However, as mentioned on another thread, the silver lining is that materials and lower tier equipment (and eventually even higher tier equipment) will sell for fairly cheap at the auction house, so as a new player you may be strapped for CE/adventure time, but you will be able to advance equipment-wise at about the same rate or even faster.

*offers popcorn and sits back*

You've got a good understanding of my theory. I'm aware from anecdotal evidence as well as corroborating information from players like you and others I've spoke with that Tier 2 is superior to Tier 3 for earning crowns but I was mainly noting that there is an increase from Tier 1 to Tier 3. I'll throw out some sample numbers that are purely rough estimates of my own experience.

Assume that a complete Tier 1 run nets you 4000 crowns. Tier 2 which is clearly the best choice to earn crowns nets you 6000 while Tier 3 nets you 5000. The average when the bulk of users were running either Tier 1 or 2 was 5000 ([4000+6000]/2). The shift to Tier 2 and 3 that came from the Rose Regalia event shifts a greater number of players to Tier 2 and 3 which increases the average to 5500 ([6000+5000]/2).

Depending on other factors (purchasing and reselling recipes, selling off materials gained and minerals grabbed) the net crowns earned could increase and impact the equilibrium price.

You may also note that I am disregarding the influx of new players. The reason for this is twofold. One, I don't know the actual numbers (and as an economist its much easier to disregard things that the market doesn't control). But more importantly, two, I theorize that new players comprise such a small share of those buying energy. It is the Tier 2 and 3 veteran players (which I only say veteran to differentiate them from new players) that are buying energy to continue to complete runs and thus largely dictate the price in the market.

I wasn't making any predictions on the actual equilibrium price but merely presenting theory on why prices are rising. Like you, I realize how the rising price will suppress the progression of newer players and that it will be newer players being depending on veteran players mass crafting 2 star gear for UV's in order to begin running Tier 2 on mist energy for crowns.