Spiral Knights - Zopy's concerns for the added battle mechanics

Zopy's concerns for the added battle mechanics

22 replies [Last post]

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 20:58

Zopyros-Il

I'll try to be brief for a little bit.
Spiral Knights combat was not built around the idea of having all of these incoming new mechanics. A sizable portion of players already felt that most threats in the Clockworks were easy enough to deal with without advanced dodging mechanics, shield bashing, and abilities provided by Battle Sprites. Unless everything else in the game gets a change of some sort, the new mechanics are going to seem out of place and probably make an already easy game easier.
Take all of that with a grain of salt, though. We don't have any idea the extent of the changes that OOO is planning, so maybe everything will mesh well and the game will still have a lot to offer in terms of challenge and difficulty.

But then a new problem starts gnawing at my mind... Is it still Spiral Knights in the end?

(Briefness ends there. I'm going in-depth from here on out.)

Am I overreacting to all of this? I have my own reasons for not liking the news, but there's still some problems that need answering.

- A lot of us are still ridiculously upset on the more recent changes, especially with how there's been no word from the devs about it all. I still see no reason why the old UI needed to be changed. All of these new features could have been added in seamlessly on the old one and would honestly look much better.
- We still need an answer on monster difficulty and if there's going to be any changes. We can't just keep having enemies be nerfed into the ground only to introduce quicker and easier ways to kill them. I know the Gorgos among other things are coming, but that doesn't change the status of the old enemies. They'll be reduced to nothing but cannon fodder if things don't change.
- Gear balance is still a very valid issue. Survey or not, there are a LOT of obvious things that should have been changed long ago. A few of which that OOO has stated they were going to change, but has been MONTHS (over a year in the case of the Iron Slug) without any change. Were they putting off on balancing all of the equipment for years just so they could balance it all when Battle Sprites or these new mechanics came out? Why couldn't they have adjusted numbers a little bit to make some things at least usable instead of leaving it in a broken state?
- Do these new features herald some more endgame content for the vets or will it follow the recent trend of updates and focus more on drawing in newer players? A lot of vets have been waiting a LONG time for something new to play with...
- And the thing that I'm kind of most afraid of: Are these new features going to actually work well with the tried-and-true gameplay of Spiral Knights that we've all fallen in love with? Or is it going to be some silly new feature tacked on to try to make the game seem more interesting or in-depth than it actually is?
A similar situation happened with Vindictus with the arrival of Season 2 and a new jumping mechanic being added in. None of the old characters, monsters, or levels were designed around this new feature, making it seem horrendously out of place in an otherwise alright game. The newer levels, monsters, and character were designed with the new jump feature in mind, but because of that they either seem either out of place or overpowered since they can make use of that new mechanic. In the end, a lot of players ended up leaving. The game just wasn't the same.
Could Spiral Knights be looking at a similar problem? How well implemented are these new features going to be? Will they mesh flawlessly into our playstyles and gameplay, or will they stick out like a sore thumb and ruin the experience for a lot of players?

Well, those are my thoughts and concerns. What do you guys think?

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 21:10

Neodasus

tl;dr I personally think

tl;dr

I personally think these new techniques are great, I hope they will be abused to the point where we k-style the crap out of the clockworks. Then, only then will OOO be forced to buff monsters back to the way they were.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 16:45

Fehzor

I've many of the same worries. We say things like "healthbars would be nice..." and then end up with a massive UI overhaul that changes the feel of the game entirely and gives us a large number of things that we didn't ask for. "4* items aren't good because they don't go all the way to 5*" gets us an overhaul and massive nerf to radiant sun shards. A misunderstanding of argent peacemaker/sentenza's mixed damage numbers forever eliminates their special damage types from the game.

This could easily be very good for the game, but it could also just break what the game is for us. After all, it *was* our idea.

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 21:54

Hexzyle

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/79569

The reason why it's called a "discussion" thread is so you can "discuss" it there.

Don't spam the forums like the 3rd of April.

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 22:18

Shidara

@Hexzyle

Aside from sending the link in-game (which would require the recipient to manually type in the link) Fehzor's post is quite relevant considering their post was directed at Zopyros-Il as a "hey, you might be interested in this" rather than a strict discussion about the April 3rd update. If we are to assume that this is the intended purpose of Fehzor's post, which topic would be a better target for catching Zopyros-Il's attention - The April 3 Discussion thread, or this one?

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 22:25

Hexzyle

@Shidara

Firstly, my post wasn't directed at Fehzor, it was directed at Zopy, the OP.

Secondly, where did I mention the April 3rd Discussion Thread?

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 22:27

Misten

@Shidara

Hexzyle is referring to Zopyros-II, the thread creator.

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 22:33

Snowdusk

I can say that I share nearly all the concerns that Zopyros has. I fear that Spiral Knights is losing its identity from the recent updates, and I hope they're still keeping track of everything.

I'm not referring to a particular update; I'm talking about every single new content being added to the game, regardless of the time-frame. I really don't mind if the Core either opens up someday or remains closed, as long as the game is going in its intended direction.

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 22:38

Shidara

Whoops. My bad for jumping to

Whoops. My bad for jumping to assumptions.

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 22:57

Zopyros-Il

Beep Boop

@Neo
That's a little disheartening considering I kind of made a tl;dr in the OP.

I'm excited too about the incoming changes, but they don't do much to diminish the other worries that I have. So I hope you decide to take a minute and read what I have here.

@Fehz
Good to know I'm not the only one worried about this. Adding something into the core mechanics of the game while the rest of the game wasn't designed around it could end up very badly for OOO. I'm a little scared that they don't really notice that...

And I may have been sent that by Kalaina, but I haven't logged on since a little after the Devilite nerf. I just can't get used to the new UI and the new positions of everything.
It is worrying about what Kalaina noticed and it may sadly be true. I hope it isn't though. I can understand wanting to always change things at such a large extent instead of minor changes, but they're dealing with something that is far too big for changes like that. It's something that needs the little changes to continue working. You have to make sure the smaller supports can withstand the bigger changes without breaking.

@Hex
Didn't mean to start a squabble like that! Sorry!
But if I felt that this was only about the incoming dash and shield-bash mechanics, then I would have posted in Nick's thread. However, what I'm trying to address is my overarching concern for the direction of the game, not just those two mechanics which are definitely included in my concern, but not the focus of it. The recent updates don't bode well for the core of the game and unless the OOO team really are the amazing developers that we think they are and they can mesh all of these new features flawlessly, we have a problem.
Also I would rather not have to deal with the slew of newer players who tend to flock to the Admin posts and don't read other posts. This is a matter that I would like to be generally discussed, not generally ignored.

@Snow
Good to know you're worried as well. And like you, I could care less if the Core opens or not, just so long as there's something to do or look forward to and the game stays true to itself.
There's always people who say that a game changes over time and that its core changes as well. I've played a few of them and understand that. But I've never gone through something quite like this and that's what worries me.

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 23:19

#10

Hexzyle

@Zopyros-Il

I guess then maybe move the stuff relevant to the new mechanics onto that thread? I mean, developers are more likely to respond to questions on a thread which they started.

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 23:49

#11

Sweet-Hope

I honestly feel like everything its tuned down to attrac a new audience while the old player should stay or leave the game since it dont have anything new to offer for them (yes i know Compounds, Battle sprites, Gorgos... but honestly its not like when they added new bosses in arcada)

im more worried that we get a lot of ways to own the monsters while they stay the same without a difficulty increased, whats the point to have dashes and shield bash if the enemies arent that hard at all? if they add this without give a buff to enemies then i will feel this update its more "fancy" way to please new players than keep everyone have fun with the game. if they add those new mechanic with buffed enemies then im ok, but if they add it without buff enemies then... bad

since mission update i feel the game have a dramatic update, i dont say that the game wouldnt have storyline but they could have added mission in another way rather than make it the "Main thing" to do in the game. before, in arcade day was pretty fun, people idk... was more friendly than its now. with that "free stuff" that OOO gives in missions make people to ask everything for free (the other day i was just doing my business in haven while a new player with skolver coat and stranger hat ask to me for some free energy i told her, if she was able to get skolver coat she would be able to get anything she want, what was her response? an insult.. seriously)...

i know beggars would exist in everygame but with this i see more of them. So anyway in arcade days people played for fun since energy price wasnt like it is now... based on how much you get in KoA. So no matter if people say "i play for fun not for profit"... but how about the rest of the people? i also play for fun but im losing interest in the game because everyone wants to do vanaduke because the profit.... the same thing of every day.

Also im losing interest in the game because its getting damn easier everytime, enemies nerf everywhere, lack of new bosses. i know it take time and all but... when they used to update the game at least we got 2 awesome bosses like snarbolax and roarmulus. now luckely we get 1 new enemy and the next one its gorgos... which its fiend. they said fiends lack lot of enemies... Beast does too and they need more that than fiend.. but oh well

at this time, i see its pointless make OOO hear us, we should face the change with the option to stay or leave the game, there isnt nothing else to do.

The only 3 reason why im still playing

1) my friends, until all of them leave the game or the guild i will stop playing

2) idk what to do with 104k Ce.

3) im waiting for a new MMo that have the same game mechanic as Spiral Knights, thats the only and main reason why i stay in the game even if they made changes that i dont like, the reason i like a lot this MMo its because its all about Skill, not about how much stat do you have, or what strategy do you have to use, or the best stats on your gear, or raise your spell etc. (i hate strategy games... same i hate the games where i click and saw my character do everything with 1 click like AoE or Dofus).

because honestly the only reason why so many vet still stay in spiral knights its because OOO dont have a rival game like this, many Action MMo could let you move your character with WASD or keyboard but still have one thing i hate... leveling system. its a lot of grinding and like that spiral knight you will have the same level as your friends. only the gear its what have different levels (this case stars because im not talking about the gear heat level).

Well anyway, i dont think OOO will add a new boss or buff enemies when they add the Dash and Shield Bash. since the already did the nerf because players dont want to learn how to play since they just want to get trought mission since its what limit them. in arcade the only thing that limit us to keep getting deeper was the star in your gear (you cant reach the next tier if you dont have the right gear..) now you have to get the "X" star gear + the certificate in HoH otherwise you cant advance to play arcade (though you can join to a friend like before).

Anyways im glad that im not the only one that its worried about the game future. but i just will stay here until i find something new to spent the time.

Of course... people will say we are "over reacting" for this... but oh well

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 03:27

#12

Milkman

I share your sentiments.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 10:19

#13

Zopyros-Il

Beep Boop

@Hex
Maybe. Seems a bit redundant now that I've made this thread though.

@Lug
I really don't see how OOO expects us to make use of the mechanics if we've been able to deal with everything they're thrown at us with ease without massive movement buffs. Some say that the Gorgos is going to need us to use them, but considering they were balancing it according to players fighting it without the new mechanics, I don't have much hope for it. And even if it does, that still leaves every other monster in the game that can't deal with speedier, bashier Knights.

And I hate that the make-or-break point right now hinges so heavily on the Battle Sprites. They're putting too much weight on it and its reaching a point where it will collapse under the expectations they're setting up for it. Unless they're been holding back a LOT of playable content along with the Sprites, players are going to mess with the Sprites and be stuck in the same position every vet is in right now. Nothing to use all of our new toys and firepower on except Skolver clones.

@Sweet
OOO could have done a lot of things better, especially the implementation of the Missions. Hopefully they're seeing all this talk about the game's flaws and are thinking of ways to fix things up. Hopefully...

I'm actually working on a game that plays similarly to Spiral Knights right now. Granted its still only in early planning and probably won't be out for quite a while (probably before OOO opens the Core. Hah!)... Still, I hope that at least gives you a little hope that someone is working on creating competition for Spiral Knights. Without competition, SK and OOO have become too complacent and stagnant. So hopefully I can scare them a bit and get them to get their act together.

@Milk
Thanks. Good to see we're not alone with these concerns.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 18:18

#14

Klipik

I read the first 11 posts and then made this because I'm lazy

I see this announced update as OOO speaking with their actions instead of their words. "Here, you didn't like the new UI? Well, here's why we changed it. See? It's better this way! Can you please stop hating us now?" Which is all fine (mostly)... as long as it works. As we've said, a lot rides on this second quarter of 2013. Battle Sprites, Gorgos, and now these new mechanics. A lot of the veteran playerbase is on the fence, trying to decide wether it's worth it to keep playing and spending money on this game or not. If these updates go well for everyone, then it's great. New content, new mechanics, all implemented in a way that's fair for everyone. The problem is, with OOO's recent track record, I don't trust them to not mess this up.

You better prove me wrong, OOO...

p.s.: I could make this longer, make a two-page long post, something like that. Delve into the details. But I'm not going to, because everything's been said so many times repeating it once more isn't going to do anything. Just make us happy, OOO. And remember, "us" isn't just the newcomers. We veterans exist too.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 11:51

#15

Zopyros-Il

Beep Boop! Rise from your grave!

SO. I made this when the Dash and Bash was first announced. I've stated my concerns in the OP, so give it a read and make a judgement for yourself now that we've actually had the time to play around with these new features.

After playing with it and processing everything, here's my opinion of the Dash n' Bash update:

Visually it fits with the game. The animations and sounds makes it clear what these do and still generally fits in with everything else in the game. The glow is a bit much, but OOO seems obsessed with shiny sparkly things lately...

As for how it fits into gameplay... it does and it doesn't. And where it doesn't fit is what REALLY troubles me.
It does fit in because combat actually flows very smoothly with these new changes and opens a lot of new options, especially in Player vs. Player.
It doesn't fit in much in Player vs. Environment. Our "Environment," the Clockworks, was not made for these new features and it really shows. Most threats in the Clockworks have been trivialized by the Dash, allowing players to dash past traps, around and even THROUGH enemies (try it on a Grimalkin. They can't catch you). The Bash, while not as game-breaking, allows smarter players to effectively wipe out groups of enemies with a solid Stun Bash.
Both of these are increases in our power that we never really needed. We could tackle the denizens of the Clockworks easy enough without all of that, so why do we need it now? It's not like OOO added in new threats that really necessitate us to use these new abilities. They had the chance with the Gorgos, but those kind of fell flat on their obese bums and aren't considered to be much of a threat.

What's worse is that OOO isn't giving any indication that things are going to be adjusted to accommodate the increased capabilities of the Knights. The Clockworks look like they're going to be staying the same unless entire room layouts are going to be adjusted.
The enemies, which were already lacking in means of fighting against us, don't look like they're going to be adjusted to deal with our new tactics.
What's worse is that there is STILL no new content to be PLAYED. It's all just the same old Clockworks that we've all been through dozens of times. The Compounds were interesting the first few times through, but aren't very amazing anymore. We have new things to play with, but nothing new to really play. It's distressing.

Though, the one good thing is that I am relieved to see that the new UI has at least been given a unifying theme and now actually looks pretty decent. I will always be perplexed as to why they didn't just adjust the old UI to do the same though. I mean all they had to do was clean up the silly reused icons and move things around. That's all. Keep the visual theme that SK and its community grew up with and grew into.
Instead they spent probably weeks of their time making this new UI just to try to evoke a feeling of "Spiral Knights 2.0."

Oh well. OOO may still surprise me with the Battle Sprites and whatever else comes with them. If it FINALLY presents new areas to play, new experiences to be had, and an environment where we are more required to exercise our even further increased firepower, then I'll be the first to eat my little peg-legs.
Until then, OOO needs to figure out where they're going with all of these changes. And while they're thinking and planning all of that, maybe they can have Boswick and Cherub whip up another promo? Maybe one with a Gunslinger Hat? Or am I asking for the impossible with that?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 11:56

#16

Krakob

Trivia: we've had more than one thread complaining about the difficulty of Greavers and I downright find Gorgos harder to deal with than the now upgrade butterflies. I know I'm not the only one to think that.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 14:22

#17

Qwao

EDIT: I can't read :o

I feel like I'm the only one satisfied with whatever OOO is doing. Maybe I have not played other MMOs to expect/know what kind of quality a game should have, but I feel like the game is the same as always. Perhaps my Screen Resolution make me barely focus enough on the UI to feel anything. The art style otherwise is the same. Do our Knights suddenly appear with mouths? No. In this aspect I don't feel anything hard about it.

While you guys talk about how this whole Dash and Bash thing "Trivializes" everything try to think about other players who are not as skilled as you. Maybe they just started the game and have much to learn. Maybe they played for a long time but don't know how to improve- Don't make me even start to talk about ping here. When's the last time you hit defend half a second before a Trojan smashes and STILL get hit? Yes "predict" but you try doing that every second you play and tell me you find it enjoyable. Every once in a while I want to play things the way I see them on the screen, because it's not worth it.

The dash and bash are not compulsory. Turn off the keys, play as normal if you so wished. No need to purposely use it and make things "easier" then talk about it. The option is always there.

Regarding Gorgos, I have no idea what's so easy about them. (They had the chance with the Gorgos, but those kind of fell flat on their obese bums and aren't considered to be much of a threat.)Their unpredictable flying patterns and ridiculous speed makes chasing them down hard without dashing/hammer dash/something. I even resort to spamming supernova against them because a swarm is just unbearable. My shield can't handle it, I can't hit everything before they chomp cause ping, etc etc. Like Krakob said, Greavers are a true roll-over with Toothpicks (or any wide swinging sword, really) if you can just time it and hit them before they attack. Sure they occasionally fly behind you and sneak in one or two attacks, but that's about it. You want to make it even easier? Stand in a corner and Spam shield cancel the first swing of a toothpick. Bonus points for bringing two toothpicks if you are that hardcore and swing shield cancel switch swing.

New content depends on how fast the player base runs through them. They could release a new boss dungeon, one or two hours later a few threads about how hard it is might come up (or how easy) then suddenly a few days later people find a ridiculously easy way to beat them and suddenly it's boring old content again to be grinded/whatever. The compounds were a challenge with swords, but polaris/supernova walls and bombs seem to chew through them relatively with ease, albeit maybe more time consuming than spamming Brandish charges. Again, choice of gear and playstyle. Not starting on "fake difficulty" here.

Now to move on to your OP.
-People will always evolve to adapt. You can introduce hard enemies- then suddenly people bring out the shivermist/voltaic/stagger storms and start spamming Brandish charges. If not, it's going to be an electron vortex.
- I don't know regarding gear balance anymore. I just decide to not touch that "overpowered" purple set. I don't know but for things like Iron Slug giving it extra damage (not TOO much) so that it does better than Callahan against neutral enemies and will always perform better against enemies Calla is weak to seems an easy enough path. But who knows?
- I find new things to play with by crafting new 5* gear. You can't imagine the surprise and joy I had when I first crafted my Nova Driver over a year into this game.
- Personally, I find the game the same as always for reasons mentioned. I don't know about the "feel" of the game, it just looks a bit more "modern and flashy" to me. Maybe it's just me, or maybe people are just making a mountain out of a molehill. Wait 6 months later and I want to see if anyone even bothers about the UI anymore. Maybe they just can't care anymore, maybe they moved on. I salute whoever can still say this half a year later.

EDIT: I just bothered to read through the other post and the date, lol. Well at least this necro is not that much uncalled for now that people can discuss it after actually experiencing what the stuff is about. But again, I'll leave my points here.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:11

#18

Holy-Crab

"try to think about other

"try to think about other players who are not as skilled as you"

People always come up with that argument...but it has zero validity, the now veterans were once newbies too, and they improved despite the game beeing ten time harder at the time. So why should players now not be able to face these difficulties anymore? If people did it before, there is no reason they can't. You are heavily underestimating the capabilities of humanity, really, you would be amazed at how humans can adapt to pretty much everything.

The few times I've played this game these last months, I had a hard time recognizing what once was, I saw one week newbies charging up brandishes and storming polarises everywhere and instantly annihilating everymob and their mobhers. This is plain ridiculous, and I can't understand how people don't feel disgusted at the direction the game has taken lately. Wasn't it enough, that god-forsaken day, when they implemented a wave of nerfes to our dear game, but no, from what I've read of the last patches, they keep nerfing the few things that have not been nerfed and they buff already overpowered knights. I'm sorry, I wish I could share your optimism, but this game has lost a lot of its charm...I remember the goold old days with my mates, all now retired, when we would get destroyed on any CW level, we knights would lie down looking at the sky, and then will begin the eternal discussion about who has to ce revive again,"I can't use ce or I won't be able to get to the boss" says one of us, "go revive X, you have bought a pack, don't be so cheap" would say another...Then one of us would revive and get mauled in seconds, and it was so funny...good old memories, that was a huge part of Spiral Knights, how challenging it was sometime, and I'm afraid it is slowly taken off the game. This ammong many other things.

"Don't make me even start to talk about ping here."

This is the second argument people often come up with, and it was the reason why we got that first huge nerf, was it last year? I can't remember correctly, time flew by. I'm sorry people get a terrible ping, really, I am, but it is unacceptable we, average or good pingers, beeing a majority, have to suffer all these nerfes for the likes of a minority. Do you realize how utterly ridiculous the spawn of mobs is when you have a decent ping? You see them litteraly not moving for five long seconds, and now, imagine someone with his new shiny brandish charged already, it takes him less than that time to erase any mobs from the face of Craddle. I'm sorry, but we don't fix the problems of some by ruining the game for others. This is 'insert curse word here'.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:40

#19

Qwao

My point has been said here. I know people will improve and adapt over time. Now how hard exactly should things be? A fiend boss with vanaduke health that moves like a gorgo, throws devilite projectiles with pre-"nerf" range and on impact those projectiles create pre-nerf greaver mist?

I am not pro, I am not much of a gamer, I play it to have fun. I don't find dying every few moments fun. You guys might find challenges fun. Okay, then OOO has their decision to satisfy the veterans and kill newbies or attract newbies while veterans sit there waiting for something to finally happen.

And regarding the point, I have not even started to TALK about it. It seems simply mentioning it is an issue. But I think five long seconds is an exaggeration here- ping or otherwise they are probably still for a full second at most.

And you know what is sillier? People used to complain that the pre-nerf Alphas were insane. That zombie swipes were ridiculously cheap with their double range. That Retrode's beams exploding within 0.3s notice was cheap.

Perhaps it was OOO's fault they took that overboard and overnerfed them. I don't know. I can live with it. I still find challenges.

Maybe it's just me. I'd love to see someone else who actually enjoys this game despite all these silly reasons. I've played for over a year. Maybe I have to wait till my 2 year mark like some people to finally get bored of it? I don't know.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:00

#20

Zopyros-Il

Beep Beep Boop

Agh. I had a post that I was writing for a good hour and a half, but then the forums logged me off when I tried to post the thing. After venting a bit, I'll try and sum up what I was going to say.

@Krakob and Owao about the Gorgos:
I've been going into Tier 1, 2, and 3 Arcade and Missions to reassess my stance on the Gorgos. They have some special mechanics, but really aren't all that special. They bob around a lot and, as Pan said, their hitboxes are a little off sometimes because of this. They also have the unique habits of keeping their distance before attacking with their bite and of always strafing. The distance thing is interesting as it makes them a bigger challenge to Swordies, but they are still pretty slow moving so closing the distance isn't too big an issue. Something else about their distance behavior is that they back up enough so that the first bite sometimes misses entirely. It's pretty hilarious on Tier 1 to have a Gorgo fail multiple times trying to bite you with its one attack. Their strafing behavior is unique in that it allows them to come from different angles while simpler monsters attack your front. Though to be honest I'm not sure if it's intentional or because of their wonky hitboxes and movements moving them in ways they don't want to.
Anyways, I don't think they're much of a threat. I was able to dance around them and kite them the same as most other enemies. Use dash if you find yourself in a sticky situation with them and you should be fine.

@Owao
I honestly had a really lengthy and thought out post here before it got wiped, so I'm sorry I have to trim it down a little bit for my sanity's sake.

OOO hasn't done the best job at adjusting for difficulty and of introducing their playerbase to the new mechanics or even the old mechanics.
Whenever I join a party, I'm usually the first (sometimes the only one) to start dashing about in combat. I go for five minutes to see if anyone else uses it, then start spamming it left and right. To dodge, to move around, to hop traps, anything. Some people catch on after a moment of "Oh yeah, that's a thing" and dash along with me. Others just trudge along like they always have, especially the ones that really need to learn the new mechanic considering the trouble some of them get into. I swear I played with a 4*-5* player that seemed like he made it a point to die in every room. Situations that he could have easily dashed out from.
OOO needs to do a better job on teaching these new mechanics to new players and of presenting it to older players who don't keep as up to date as we do. Some players don't even know how to shield bash and that's a mechanic that's been in the game from the start! The Rescue Camp, Training Hall, and starter Missions need to be redone so that players are more accustomed to using these mechanics before they really start hitting a wall. The Tier difficulty progression is already a little questionable in my book, but they need to make it so that players understand the mechanics given to them in Tier 1 and learn how to use them through Tier 2 before they finally master them in Tier 3, the same way that they try to make players understand attack patterns via reduced speed and damage.

I understand that the Dash n' Bash aren't mandatory for the game, but they're here so I'm going to use them and try to teach other players how to use it. I'd be a fool not to use them, honestly. There's always going to be people who are nerfing themselves for the sake of a challenge, so I don't care whether they use the mechanics or add it to their list of things to not use. What I'm concerned about is whether the people who wanted their easier game are making use of these mechanics that older players are now going to exploit the hell out of. I don't want a situation where the game is needlessly nerfed because people didn't care to read the instruction manual.

Ping, connection problems, and lag are just things intrinsic with the game unfortunately. We all learn how to deal with them in our own ways. I have to restart my computer before I play SK just to mitigate the lag and framerate issues I usually get. If the Dash n' Bash can help you soften the blow that those issues cause, then more power to you.
I was more concerned about how it affects the overall feel of the game. In my post #15, I told why I think these added mechanics are actually alright because they kind of fit the feel of the game and don't feel too broken until you fight the Environment that wasn't made to deal with it. The entire game was built around us not having these abilities, so things broke when they did give them to us. I want OOO to address them and fix them.

And the UI is fine now, in my opinion. I still don't like it when comparing it to the old UI, but it at least works now... sort of. The party display is still trashy and broken in my opinion since I can't see Tabs, downed party members, or even half of their names. The change in the item displays helped to tie it all together. I'm just concerned that they decided to ship a half broken product to us while they finished up the rest. OOO should not be taking lessons from EA.

The content thing can be broken down to:
- Most MMOs add more content for players who reached the end-game. This allows them to continually pull in new players and still engage their old ones. There's always bug fix and balance updates in between, but things are mostly aimed at holding their already captive audience who would spread the word around for their game.
- SK adds stuff for newer players to play with. They hardly add any end-game content and instead try to pull in new prospective players instead of doing things to hold the attention of the ones already playing. Many players who've reached end-game only stick around to goof off, socialize, PvP, and hold guilds together. Many new players have left because of how much little they see there is to do once they hit 5*... and because OOO's captive audience is telling them how little there is at end-game.

What vets want is something to play. Not something to play with. We like having these new mechanics, but there's nothing new to try them out on. We've reached the peak, where we found a sign saying wait here for new content, and are now still sitting here in the cold.

@Pan
Try to keep things civil, please. I'm trying to have a discussion not an argument. :P

I miss ye olde days, too, but I'm trying my best not to get too hung up about the changes. I'm hoping that OOO actually listens to all the feedback they've gotten from the surveys and such to create some challenging content and balance the game out. It's hoping for a lot, but it's better than getting stuck on the past in my opinion.
Still, that doesn't mean that I don't have a bone to pick with OOO about a lot of the changes they've made. I'd just rather try to have fun and enjoy things... until they get too broken. Then I'm out of here like most of the other vets.

And the ping/connection/frame rate issue is something that OOO really needs to get in-check. The need to make the "Low" setting lower, possibly eliminating ALL unnecessary particles because those tend to be what really breaks the game. FSC is a horrendous mess with all the fire slowing everything down. They need to optimize.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 03:26

#21

Holy-Crab

@Owao People used to

@Owao

People used to complain, old news, there always have been people complaining, even as of now when the game has been made as easy as a three pieces puzzle. The zombie swap was ridiculous? Sure, they did fix them good now, they take forever to react, you can pass right before them without nothing happening to you, that is for sure less ridiculous than it was before. I fail to see how a laser beam doing instant damage is broken? What was the real issue was the camera angle, I would agree on that, that's what Three Rings should have fixed cause you used to get hit cheaply from off-screen. But I guess, since you are playing for a year, you always knew the game pretty much as it is now. For people who have been around for 2 years and more, the vast majority of us were frustrated by the changes.

Also, people didn't die every second, you just had to focus more before instant of charging up brandishes brainlessly for two hours. I didn't take enjoyment in dying but in avoiding death...That's a whole different concept. And I'm not a pro gamer either, I take the game as it is, a casual game, it always was, but now it is basically a hack'n slash game, even my six years old brother can get through it easily. And yeah that bothers me.

But whatev's, if you enjoy the game, that's good for you I suppose. That is just impossible for me.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 03:44

#22

Qwao

@Zopyros Well regarding that "fix stuff so they fit with the current system" thing I as well sincerely hope that they plan to fix everything AFTER the battle sprites so once all the new content stuff are in they will balance it properly. Likewise I sincerely hope there is nothing that will absolutely require dash or shield bash (by the way, shield bump is a better term to use to differentiate the push and charge) just to beat it. I mean okay it ups the skill level required, but still.

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Zopy's concerns for the added battle mechanics