You forgot to point out that both Spiral Knights and Warframe have a system where you have a limited number of deaths a day (Revive Tokens and Energy).
Did you guys know it's possible for a development team not to be secretive and unresponsive?
Sat, 05/04/2013 - 14:28
#52
@Zeddy
Sat, 05/04/2013 - 19:21
#53
@Ghret: The problem lies in, is Z positive or negative? We say negative, they say positive (obviously because they put it in the game :P). But they don't give us any of the reasons for it being positive, or explaining their actions... So all we see is the negative and a company that's not doing anything about it.
@Zeddy and Unstable: You also forgot the part where Warframe is still in beta. Go look at the old forum posts... Devs were responsive during beta.
Edit/P.S:
Look! They did it after release too!
Binding weapons update:
-OOO changed something
-the forums got angry
-OOO made a post explaining their reasoning for the change and what they planned to do in the future
UI update:
-OOO changed something
-the forums got angry
-OOO says nothing
So... what happened in between? Why no response this time?
Sat, 05/04/2013 - 19:42
#54
I have to note that actually,
I have to note that actually, a long time ago, someone posted this article from the blog of
the guy who made the Geneforge series (something I desperately need to own).
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/01/three-reasons-creators-should-nev...
It raises some fairly good points, especially reason #1, about why it isn't smart
for a game's creator to directly sift through his/her own forums, although
I do have to say that Digital Extremes has my love at this point in time for the
amount of effort it seems they put into poking through their forums, although
it isn't as vitriol prone as some other boards. One or two MOBA boards come to mind
when I write vitriol.
Also, I have to admit it really makes me happy when I see developers even sift through
the subreddit associated with their game, I have seen at least one comment from
a Path of Exile developer on that game's subreddit.
Perhaps it might be possible the that blog post might be wrong.
Do we live in another age of gaming? It's possible that a developer
with thick enough skin to browse through a game he made would
be rewarded by being to react to appropriately with the community,
without being tired/ticked/embarrassed by what is said on there.
Sat, 05/04/2013 - 20:21
#55
The papaya giggles
@Klipik
No idea where you found that thread, well, its not surprising that I haven't see it before :P I didn't even know Spiral Knights had a forum during Beta XD
Sat, 05/04/2013 - 21:52
#56
¦`
As someone brought up earlier, 3Rings posted and interacted with the community much more in the beta/early release phases of the game. At that point in development (especially with unique ideas), devs want to get as much feedback as possible before things scale up and become much more inflexible to change - just imagine the AH/craft-binding updates happening now instead of one of the earlier months after release. There would be so much more justification and explanation for that change to happen now than back then.
After that, it's more likely for the game to have certain tracking events* associated with when players do certain things (for example, when a player uses cash, dies, etc). Forum feedback tends to be pretty bad in comparison because the ones who care/bother to use forums tend to not be the majority of the playerbase (think about it - what percentage of people do you think fill out those surveys?)
Why deal with that when they can look at cold, objective data? (on that topic, can developers get demographic data about its Steam users?)
When a game's out in the wild, you're way less likely to see developer comments in general forums unless they're just for fun play comments, moderation, or when mistakes happen. I'd be more worried if the actual programmers posted here and asked us for suggestions lol - it'd show lack of faith in the designers this late in the process XD
Also @ OP:
Looked up that game, it's in open beta phase for sure.
*I'm not completely claiming that SK tracks your every movement, but if it's anything like some projects I've worked on, it probably has some degree of that.
Sat, 05/04/2013 - 22:27
#57
I skipped most of the debates
I skipped most of the debates but they are really working hard. A few days ago they did a survey about weapons.
However, the interaction level has gone down to 0.01%, first we had clockwork confidential or whatever but it has stopped to. All we get is some random post on some random thread. So yeah they need to make more social interaction between the oil and the water(because they don't mix except if detergent is added).
Sat, 05/04/2013 - 23:19
#58
Personally I see it as a good
Personally I see it as a good sign that they are silent.
silent and working
Sat, 05/04/2013 - 23:45
#59
@Seiran
"Why deal with that when they can look at cold, objective data?"
Because hopefully, the developers care about the kind of people who play their game as much as they do about how much they're spending. Sure, you can look at the numbers and say "hmm... It appears new players spend money. We should cater to them," and then develop lots of easy content, nerf the game, and whatnot. But that will eventually result in a playerbase that doesn't care about the game, and will only stay around for a few weeks, maybe spend a little money, and leave when they realize what the game will be at that stage - a bad progression curve concealed behind a shiny UI and promos. I don't think OOO wants their game to become that, but that's what will happen if the focus continues to shift towards new players and away from the people who care about the game.
News flash- if you make the people who stick around happy, they give you more money, and good word of mouth. If you make the people who just got here happy for a week, they maybe give you money, until they quit and tell their friends not to give you money. Which one sounds better? Stable revenue from players who care, or a business model based on hoping no one finds about the flaws that aren't getting fixed?
@Knight: CW Confidential is not a regular thing. Just because they haven't done one recently doesn't mean they've stopped forever.
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 03:27
#60
my 2 cents
Dev don't have to explain why they did something.
They did it because they felt it needed to be done... If they said why then there would be even more turmoil because of stubborn entitled player
If it ain't done it's because it isn't worth it because of or because they feel like the game doesn't need to rely on it... (I'm looking at LD and BN here)
OOO is transparent... We know what's coming up already... Shield Bash, Dash and Battle Sprites in less than 2 months... That's HUGE transparency IDK if people realize but they announced that the gameplay of the whole game will change forever after 2 years...
I hope you realize that OOO is not perfect, but they certainly do talk with the forumers, they just have jobs and content to work on to satisfy us and wasting time here wouldn't benefit any of us that's why Hyperion replies during his Launch break on the forum (IDK if people even realized this) and the Devs talks for so little time, the CM takes over so they can work back on those awesome feature
And a dev team must always have a trump card to show if people are bored... I'm pretty sure an event will follow to test our new equipment :D
From Xutak:
Unlike others that quit the game and stay in the forums. I quit the forums and stay in the game.
Too much negativity here. People do not understand, even if they get all they want, they will still find something to complain about and blame someone else for it.
This is probably the best thing to do for now...
*sigh*
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 05:05
#61
@Shamanala:
You're annoying...
You're missing the point here. We are asking why is OOO silent about the latest issues? Telling us that X/Y/Z are coming in 1-2 months isn't being transparent. If OOO decides to make X, and the people dislike X and give valid points about why X is bad, OOO should justify their action and give a reason, even if we didn't like their reasoning, we will still respect it and say: "It's OOO decision." But in the current situation, OOO isn't spitting a word about the new UI, Chaos buff and the surprisingly free Elevator Passes. They aren't obliged to do everything we ask for or the fixes we want, but THEY ARE OBLIGED TO HEAR THEIR CUSTOMERS AND REPLY TO THEM, BECAUSE IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO DO SO.
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 06:41
#62
@Drag
I have to disagree with you on that last part. They don't have to give us anything, but we are the ones paying their bills and it is good business practice to keep your customers happy. It's in their best interest to explain it to us, as long as they don't do it in a way that will make more people even angrier.
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 09:10
#63
If X is unreleased content, and players are complaining about it before they see how it is implemented, then no, OOO doesn't have an obligation to respond. We have no way of knowing how much player input from the discussion threads of upcoming features might already be making it into how something is implemented as it is.
Also, last I saw, all the admin responses to the UI patch indicated that they were gathering data and tallying people's opinions (go look for yourself). Likewise, the Chaos buff was a direct result of players complaining that the armor was useless, and OOO stated that the ele passes handed out were them testing a new gifting system. There is a difference between not liking the answers and OOO not answering.
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 09:30
#64
"All the admin responses" is actually just one. And saying "we're tallying your feedback" isn't a real answer, it's a cop out. I don't think anyone's really complaining about the free ele passes thing anymore, and the Chaos overbuff was just a bad job of rebalancing. no explanation needed there, they just forgot about Mad Bomber when they did it. The main issue for now is the UI, which is the only recent update that has not been explained. Most times they say why the changed something, but in the case of the UI it was just "hey guys, have a new interface. Because we felt like it." I'm sure that's not the reason, but they haven't said otherwise.
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 09:36
#65
> There is a difference between not liking the answers and OOO not answering.
Just as there is a difference between listening and hearing, their answers are more like they hear us talking but don't really listen to it (an answer just like the one they gave to the UI rants was given to the shard's fiasco, where they were looking the feedback and would do something about it and look what we got from it after all this time; a huge pile of nothing).
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 10:03
#66
@Klipik
I still stand by the notion that the new UI is to make way for moar stuff that we're getting, most notably the Battle Sprites.
We need more space to fit in the new menus and buttons that come with that update.
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 10:24
#67
@hex (look, I fixed my name :D)
It would be nice if they had told us that. It is a definite possibility, especially with the announcement of the Shield Bash explaining the addition of the shield bar.
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 15:07
#68
Ahahah, ROFL right now !
I have to acknowledge you people that I'm in exams since less than a month, and I've said I will quit the game since the new UI.
I've learned today that most of us are from the 5% of the +3millions people that had discovered the game
(to reach a T3 set statistically = endgame players, 150k real players to actually KNOW what the game is made of.),
so I should be allowed to talk as a rare veteran, my view and most of the forumers should have been taken in account, but OOO didn't.
I think it is too late now.
I never even wanted to return to SK until then, even if I had over 2K hours on it, full UV T3 sets & had the best video-game-friends/guild I ever had there.
I sometime pass over the forums to see what is going on, and a thread like that just make my day every time I come again on the forum ! XD
(I didn't drop all of it, just stopped playing)
Thanks Zeddy for making me discovering WARFRAME ! ^^ (may play it a lot after the exams, ninja!)
@Kilpik : greatest X of all time early 2012, given us meh Y and the worst Z imaginable since then, but hey keep faith and go discover other games, stop loosing your time making contact with the dev's so desperately. They might reappear someday like Vog or the tortodrone ahahah ! (like the black cat cowl, nothing is impossible) and we should keep being a community on the forums, exchanging great games in the 2012 SK's spirit...
Lovingly towards this vanished peace of childhood.
Hemsy (>")> )))
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 15:41
#69
RE: Hexzyle
Your suggestion actually makes a lot of sense. But the problem still remains, Three Rings has said nothing about this. They could have said, "We are re-jiggering your UI so that we can add some future stuff in. And whilst we're doing that, we overhaul the entire UI since the overhaul will change so much stuff, we might as well finish the job, rather than leave some areas updated and some not."
But they didn't. They just shut up about the UI change. They refuse to talk about the UI change. What I want to know is why? Why would they refuse to say anything about something so drastic? Why do they stay silent, is their reason for doing so so stupid that actually telling us would give us a lower opinion of them? Why won't they say something? Why?
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 15:51
#70
@Zeddy
Did you know OOO have employees whose sole job is to interact with the community?
I'm curious, but who are you talking about? And why are you assuming they must speak to us? If anything the person(s) you are speaking about are probably not simply paid to tickle our fancies every time we don't like something, but rather just to moderate.
Mon, 05/06/2013 - 02:28
#71
@Dirt
Moderating is a form of interaction.
I was intending to show how our and Three Rings mental processes differ.
An example with your metaphysical maths would go like this from Three Rings view:
_____________________________
X = Game (current)
Y = Player_suggestion_demands
Z = Own_input
Y + X< X
Z + Y > Y
Therefore:
Y + X + Z > X
______________
The player response to this would be the equivalent (from their point of view) of scientists debunking, or trying to at least, Einstein's equation of E=Mc^2.