Spiral Knights - How I would realistically make dual wielding work [real thread]

How I would realistically make dual wielding work [real thread]

52 replies [Last post]

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 09:00

Fehzor

You can equip weapons into your shield slot. You can still toggle between your other weapons, but will always be using your shield weapon.

If your shield weapon is a sword or a gun, you can use it without interrupting your other weapon's combo at any time. You can also charge it while attacking the enemy. The reload time on handguns still applies, but will happen while you are firing/using your other weapon. If you wait a second, your combos will reset like they currently do.

If your shield weapon is a bomb, you can charge it while attacking by shielding. If you have two bombs, you can charge both at the same time.

I could still shield if I'm not charging anything- the result would be a shield bump, and nothing more. That is, I could not prevent myself from taking damage. If I did get hit, I wouldn't get a "broken shield" though. To shield, I would use whatever the shield bash/bump button will be. Oh, and I won't be getting those. It would display the bottom part of the shield, but not the bubble.

Switching your weapon would cancel all combos.

Examples:

Lets say I choose to use say.... sudaruska as my shield weapon, and argent peacemaker as my non shield weapon.

In the following order I could:
-Shoot argent peacemaker once
-Swing my sudaruska
-Shoot argent peacemaker four more times
-Swing suda's second swing
-Shoot argent peacemaker one more time- this will cause it to reload....
-Start a new combo on suda while reloading

If I chose to use bab as my shield weapon and bab as my non-shield weapon I could:
-Charge one bab
-While charging the other bab
-Drop the first bab
-Wait a sec while recharging the first bab
-Drop the second bab
-Then a half second later
-Drop the first bab
And so on.

If I had a cutter and a gran faust, I could:
-Charge my gran faust while attacking with my cutter
-Release my gran faust charge eventually

-Hit them into a corner and finish a combo with faust
-Without having a period of time where I cannot attack at the end of the swing, start swinging my cutter

-Hit them 3 times with my cutter, then when they are about to attack
-Hit them with gran faust
-Close in and finish my cutter combo and
-Hit them away again with gran faust

If I had bab as my shield weapon, and glacius as my non-shield weapon, I could:
-Swing glacius twice while having bab charged up.
-Drop the bab
-Swing glacius a third time

If I had wild hunting blade and another wild hunting blade I could:
-Swing one wild hunting blade
-IMMEDIATLY swing the other wild hunting blade
Doubling my damage with the two. The only constraint would be how fast you could click each side, and the fact that you'd probably take damage lol. The same would go for handguns like alchemers as well. You'd still have a reload time for handguns/swords as well, it just wouldn't effect your other weapon.

If I had a sudaruska as my shield weapon, and two alchemers as my non shield weapons I could:
-Swing sudaruska
-Shoot an alchemer
-Switch to the next alchemer
-Shoot the next alchemer
-Swing the first part of sudaruska again, as I just canceled that.

My argument for why this isn't game breaking

There are two major constraints here:
-Having no shield would imply no shield bash/dash, and would make your life miserable
-WAY more things to think about, as you now have even more options. But this is a good thing, as it offers a lot of depth with a little complexity.

The second part of that mentions depth and complexity. The reason it isn't entirely too complex, is because of how easy the idea of dual wielding is to understand, and because of how through experimentation, one could find out pretty much everything in a matter of minutes in the training hall. They already know the controls, so they'll use them... and the level of depth is, as I mentioned above, is rather large. Easy to learn, hard to master.

Obviously, this feature wouldn't be for newer players. It would require a trinket, armor set, "shield", or even better- slot upgrade that lets your shield slot take weapons. These kinds of restraints would prevent newer players who should learn the basics of the game first from using it and then wondering why they're dead all the time.

As I said in my other thread:

"If a piece of equipment is crafted without destroying that player's wants for another piece of armor, then it is successful in it's design as well as in it's balance."

And I honestly believe that I would still enjoy using a shield often enough.

Yes, I realize this is a bit wonky.

As Krakob points out, "I can't see myself reloading an argent peacemaker while doing a 360 spin".

That being said-
-Only one animation would display at a time. You wouldn't see your knight reloading their gun, but it would be reloaded, no questions asked.
-Your shield weapon would be mirrored from your non-shield weapon. If you had a suda, you'd swing it the other way. This would prevent too much overlap from occuring, and would make it feel more natural.
-Charging your shield weapon would also be mirrored, and would require only the one hand to do so. There would be a newish charge animation to go along with it, where the knight holds that weapon slightly across their body if its a sword, or straight down if its a gun.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 09:17

Zeddy

Between all the dashing and dodging and battle sprites and stuff being added I don't even see why not anymore.

Plus it honestly sounds like fun.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 09:38

Krakob

Pretty sure we use two hands for reloading AP, though. Maybe. Not sure. This probably applies to many weapons. I just have a hard time seeing myself doing a 360 spin attack while also reloading a pistol. Here's a question:
Switching weapons. How would that work?
Here's another: would using your other weapon be like shield cancelling. How would switch-shooting alchemers work?

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 09:46

Fehzor

Switch shooting alchemers would still work with a swiftstrike buckler, but would become more efficient if you just dual wielded. The animation time on alchemers would make it take too long to switchshot alchemers twice as quickly. Rather, you'd get a slight increase in speed, but at the cost of your shield.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 15:07

Nick

Developer

I've thought about dual

I've thought about dual wielding in the past, but I think the only way I could really make it work would be to make it a separate weapon class entirely, like dual swords or something. The trade off for the presumably faster/greater attack power would be that the dual swords function as their own (limited) shield of a set type. I think this would provide a decent risk/reward for the power.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 15:27

Fehzor

I kind of think that would feel like a cop out to be honest. Like, when I think of dual wielding, I think of the guy that made 2 winmillions so that he could dual wield them. Like, a limitless kind of concept. If you made a dual wielded weapons category, it would be much easier to code and implement, but wouldn't be nearly as cool- which is why I went with the concept of dual wielding any 2 weapons, rather than a set weapon or any such thing. It'd be cool if you did have dual wielded weapons as a category, but that would require a whole new set of weapons, and a whole new set of balancing... especially since they would be pitted almost directly against swords in terms of balance.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 16:10

Sentinel-Zx

Dual Wielding Weapons

I kind of think that wielding two different weapons would be kind of awkward. A heavy sword and a fast gun... doesn't sound right. Wielding let's say a Divine Avenger and a Voltedge would not feel right because one is fast and the other is slow. I don't really see how dual wielding two bombs would make much difference other than the haze bombs with another or damaging bomb. Holding one straight up is normal, but maybe holding two, one on the left and the other on the right would look odd or whatever new way it might be.

Of course you might deal more damage and there might be a bit more attack speed added, but it doesn't feel right. Using set dual weapons would make more sense. It would be a new weapon class (kind of) that people would want rather than the same old swords, guns, and bombs. Personally I think set dual weapons would be better than using two different weapons that aren't much related. I also think that set dual weapons would have a different attack style.

I know two games that use dual wielding: Runescape and some Monster Hunter games. I don't know much about Runescape's dual wielding because I stopped playing before it came out, but I know the dual weapon fighting style in Monster Hunter is different from other weapons as they are quick and deal multiple hits.

Even though dual weapons remove the use of a shield, there could be an alternative to that. You could probably cross both weapons (or just the swords) and form "only" a frontal shield, although you would be vulnerable on the sides and the back. I think this is what Nick said about dual swords functioning as a limited shield, I'm not quite sure.

Just adding this in, shield weapons could also come in for a two-handed weapon (swords). Using a giant blade as a weapon and a frontal shield is beneficial, but at the cost of complete shielding. This might be copying Monster Hunter.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 16:44

Troupe-Forums

Gimme this and two WHBs and I shall have fun forever

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 17:02

Purplefighter

not quite!

The Dual Wielding option should be an upgrade you should be able to get like trinket and weapon upgrades.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 18:45

Gent-Soopakoopa

Can you imagine a guy

Can you imagine a guy dual-wielding rocket hammers in LD? It would be like a supercharged
Strike Booster with infinite usage. With a bit of skill, you could learn to dash by, strike someone,
and dash away witohut even stopping.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 18:46

#10

Gent-Soopakoopa

oopsie

- EDIT - Double post. Oops.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 20:21

#11

Qwez

So...

I can imagine a guy wielding a 5* rocket hammer and a 3* rocket hammer. Sure, why not. Half the time the guy would be doing paltry damage.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, people can already swing, dash, swing, dash, swing, dash to infinity and beyond.

I have a couple questions:
-If I use a charge attack, I can not do any other action right?
-But, if I have a two weapons, can I use both charge attacks at the same time? If so, is there going to be some sort of limit on which weapons can sync with which weapons? Or do you have a longer cooldown animation after dual charge usage?(You could use a Callahan charge to dodge a Trojan and unleash a Blitz charge as it passes)
-Would walk speed be compounded slower when charging two weapons? i.e. 2 BABs charging is slower walk speed than that of charging 1 BAB

Hm.... now that I think about this, it'd help me produce ridiculous amounts of damage or combinations.
If this ever gets implemented and requires moneh, I'd be sad.

Regarding set dual weapons, could always make all weapons be able to dual wield with weapons with similar attack patterns and charge attacks. Every attack would use both weapons, cooldowns would be dependent on the slowest weapon, charge times would be the sum of both charge times. Then take away one weapon slot for dual wielding an "extra" weapon.
-Brandishes
-Caliburs
-Troikas
-Flourishes
-Cutters
-Sealed Swords
-Blasters & Pulsars & Catalyzers
-Alchemers
-Magnuses
-Antiguas
-Mist Bombs
-Blast Bombs
-Shard Bombs
-Grav. Bombs
-Other weapons are loners, able to only dual wield among copies/other * powers

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 21:06

#12

Hexzyle

@Fehzor

Just because something might be "cool" doesn't mean you have an excuse to make it unbalanced. Having a ridiculous amount of combinations means there's so many more possible instances where weapon sets are overpowered. As many people have said, Knights are already too powerful, this is getting kinda ridiculous.

which is why I went with the concept of dual wielding any 2 weapons, rather than a set weapon or any such thing.

The problem with this is that it now is costing you twice as much to make the (two) weapons, and most people think higher cost = better weapons

Now that Nick has revealed his true intentions of how dual wielding would be implemented, I feel obliged to leave this thread here of how he might do it:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/48564

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 08:35

#13

Fehzor

@Hexzyle

My argument for why this isn't game breaking

There are two major constraints here:
-Having no shield would imply no shield bash/dash, and would make your life miserable
-WAY more things to think about, as you now have even more options. But this is a good thing, as it offers a lot of depth with a little complexity.

Obviously, this feature wouldn't be for newer players. It would require a trinket, armor set, "shield", or even better- slot upgrade that lets your shield slot take weapons. These kinds of restraints would prevent newer players who should learn the basics of the game first from using it and then wondering why they're dead all the time.

As I said in my other thread:

"If a piece of equipment is crafted without destroying that player's wants for another piece of armor, then it is successful in it's design as well as in it's balance."

And I honestly believe that I would still enjoy using a shield often enough.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 08:41

#14

Hexzyle

@Fehzor

There are two major constraints here:
-Having no shield would imply no shield bash/dash, and would make your life miserable

We already don't have Shield Bashes or Dashes, and our lives aren't miserable.

-WAY more things to think about, as you now have even more options. But this is a good thing, as it offers a lot of depth with a little complexity.

That's the problem: You're thinking it'd be great because you can greatly expand play possibilities by increasing weapon combinations. In a way it is. But you're failing to see the more impending problem: ensuring that all these weapon combinations are balanced. I think there's, what, about 7 weapons in each category. (from memory) If you're allowing cross class weapons to be combined, that's 441 weapon combinations, 441 more equipment setups that need to be tested for balance. And even if you don't allow cross class weapon combinations, you're still facing an additional 42 weapon combinations.

And who needs a shield when you're pumping out BABs/Nitros/ITBs/Polaris/Brandish at double speed?

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 09:11

#15

Fehzor

*sigh*

Presuming that all weapons are already "balanced", this just allows you to use their existing attacks.

You trade off:
The ability to use your SHIELD TO DEFEND IN THE FIRST PLACE, which is a much larger boon than you think it is,
for
The ability to intermix the combos on any 2 weapons. That is, the ability to use the 2nd and later hits of any weapon faster than you normally would be able to, as well as charge weapons whilst fighting.

And how often is it that you have a weapon that you don't end up using? That you bring say, voltedge, divine avenger and polaris to a graveyard, and don't end up using the voltedge or don't end up using it very often? The amount of mental stress placed on players from something like this would be incredible.

Currently, my options and mental calculations at any given time while fighting are:
-Shield Bump
-Attack (must remember which attack I'm on)
-Switch weapons (must remember where my weapons are and what I would use them for)
-Shield cancel
-Shield+charge

With dual wielding as it is here, I would have:
-Shield Bump
-Attack with first weapon (must remember which attack I'm on...)
-Attack with second weapon (but now I must plan way ahead- otherwise, I'm just playing without a shield)
-Switch my second, nonshield, weapon (must remember what else I have and can do- this changes a lot more now)
-Shield cancel an attack
-Start charging either of my weapons

This would be the main balancing factor- not the major tradeoff that people expect- more damage and more risk, but precisely how much harder it would be to actually play like this. You also forget how important having a shield is. Without a shield, even as a bomber with bab+polaris spam constantly running, there are still bullets. Slimes have their flying piercing shots. Before, where I would have a reaction to shield, I now must dodge entirely and stand my ground. A shield would let me get in closer and deal more damage. You know those big lichen colonies, how if I'm a sword user I can't just 2 hit KO them? I go up, I strike once, I shield. Rinse and repeat. Bullet hell? Better have something better than a brandish charge or single nitronome up your sleeve. Those tactics would be out the door. The tradeoff for this is huge, and would really change the nature of the game- but would it fit? I would say so. Spiral Knights is an offensive game as it is. The game would be MUCH harder if for only a little bit of potential with this.

As for "spam nitronome+polaris":
I would like to invite you to a run, in which we will run about together, one of us spamming polaris, the other spamming nitronome. or even 2 nitronomes. Its really one of the weaker strategies.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 10:42

#16

Canine-Vladmir

Call of Duty ruined dual-wielding for me.

-1 except for the Striker swords. those would work perfectly for Dual Wielding.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 10:56

#17

Hexzyle

@Fehzor

I hear a lot of complaints that the control scheme for Spiral Knights is beginning to get a bit cluttered. How would dual wielding fit into and/or alleviate this?

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 11:05

#18

Krakob

@Hexzyle

Pardon me for answering a question intended for you, Fehzor, but I believe it's as simple as having the shield button work as weapon #2 button since well, it replaces the shield. There's that, one button and it's already in use by all of us.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 12:48

#19

Arkate

...

There are many big changes that would be needed for dual-wielding, such as classes in creation which nick state. But that doesn't mean nobody really wants dual-wielding, and the whole community is against it as many people have said in the past. Seeing as how many bloody dual-wielding threads have been made, it seems to be as popular as the idea for pets was, which is soon to be implemented as battle-sprites. Having a class based SK would slightly help balance the game a lot actually, and put emphasis on a co-op PvE game. Which, is what I see the purpose of SK is. Of course, with all the recent updates to character creation and features, older players would need to be given the option to redesign their knights.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 13:21

#20

Nick

Developer

Dual wielding two existing

Dual wielding two existing weapons is a real stretch. Namely, because the game was built from the beginning assuming you are only having one at a time, so changing that has a huge ripple effect on a large part of the experience.

The other wrinkle is that generally speaking, SK allows for pretty rapid weapon switching. Early on, weapon switching was going to be a much more time consuming process (relatively speaking) where you stopped moving and performed a special animation. The idea was that you made a commitment when selecting a weapon. But as the game evolved we discovered the play style was much faster and weapons witching needed to keep up with the pace of the game.

So, if things were still like the old way, having 'two weapons at once' would certainly be appealing, if only from a convenience standpoint. But as it stands, a fairly dexterous player is really quad wielding at any given time (to an extent).

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 13:42

#21

Arkate

Heh.

See, even if you are as dexterous as a musician, (I'm a musician, and a fairly good one at that.) you can't quad wield to be honest. The completion for most weapon attacks at 5 stars takes too long for that to happen. I can see why Dual wielding would be a massive wrinkle. Imagine holding one of the elemental brandishes, and an acheron at the same time. It would be quite a bit powerful, and would have serious balance issues, save for the fact that you would lack a shield. I assume that all devs and admins have alternate accounts they play on, and that they've tried playing without a shield. It is incredibly difficult, because knights simply don't run fast enough on their stubby little legs. If dual wielding was added, then the dual wielder would need to have a significant move speed increase, combined with the increased damage from two weapons.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 14:18

#22

Fehzor

Yeah, I thought about the weapon switching thing. When I was originally asked "How would you implement dual wielding" my first thought was "just like having 2 weapons". But then I realized that you already do to some extent have 2 weapons. Or 3 or 4 if you buy into that. Which is how I came up with this- that adding in a separate weapon class like you said would only add to the balance issues (though relatively small), and that doing something like this would certainly be a huge and awesome feature.

And by all means, this isn't something that I would have you guys immediately start working on. If it were up to me, I'd probably create some sort of a CE promotion for battle sprites that would come out alongside them. This would probably be something unique and costumey + the "standard" recolouration of armor + some new guild hall stuff, if time allows. Then I'd probably prioritize a community levels system, which could by nature work with the steam workshop. But then before that I'd buff the arcade a bit in some way. That, and fix the balance on that third of the items that are underpowered. But I digress.

Bottom line is that you have your priorities. But if you ever do get through making content etc. to a point where you would be making dual wielding, this is how (in my opinion) it should work. Because it definitely is something that the community seems to be interested in. I didn't expect you to actually read my thread either. If I'd known you would have read it, I'd certainly have chosen a different topic to write about. And the thread that I linked to on balance and how armors/weapons should be balanced- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/80053. That was a better one. The suggestion version of it would basically be "make more interesting armors rather than functionally similar ones". But IDK.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 15:44

#23

Nick

Developer

Fehzor: You'll probably dig

Fehzor: You'll probably dig battle sprites as it allows you to quickly activate their skills say, between weapon combos. It feels very nice.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 15:55

#24

Neodasus

The level of skill needed to

The level of skill needed to make this work is so uncommon that it's just a pipe dream.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 18:38

#25

Fehzor

As for battle sprites, I'm mostly just worried that they'll be a bit.. unbalancing. The current gear is all a pretty closed system.. a big part of my thought process when I wrote about the dual wielding above was in maintaining that closed system by making weapons use only their current attacks and hold the same general pacing for their combos- that way, very little would have changed. But the battle sprites will add a whole new component to the game, changing the relationship between weapons (as they will substitute damage/support weapons) and between knights and enemies, as it will now be even easier to deal with enemies.

If you buff the enemies, you change the nature of the game. If you nerf the weapons, you also change the nature of the game. I suppose you could buff the enemies back to the way they were at one point- where the wolvers could turn their heads when they were biting, or otherwise. But that would take quite a bit of effort and would be a bit of an odd way to go about things. Hm. I guess if it were up to me, I'd make knights give up something to have a battle sprite. Like their shield. Or perhaps it would require a special armor type? But the drawback to that would be not being able to always have your Battle Sprite with you. It would restrict you. Well, maybe not. It *could* be used to give players a reason to craft odd armor sets. But that would somewhat ironically underpower things like vog.

I guess the easiest way would be to just say have at it, and let people have their battle sprites. Or perhaps buff enemies another 5-10% of their health for battle sprites, like how more party members = more enemy health.

I hope I like battle sprites. I probably will to some extent. I even liked the shard bomb update to some extent, just not to the extent that it replaced the item that I viewed as most-balanced-in-the-game with relatively poor substitutes that are fun to use but weak.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 20:11

#26

Arkate

Battle Sprites

I can see how there would be a massive unbalance problem. It would become like playing LD without a trinket if you don't have a battle-sprite.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 20:15

#27

Neodasus

@Fehzor

Don't worry, I had this same thought until I realized there will be no reason to nerf mobs after Battle Sprites. Think about it, how will they be able to promote party roles when the game is easy enough to be solo'd? Simple. Make endgame content difficult to the point in which you need a party! Battle Sprites will cause a little creep, so get ready for it.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 20:21

#28

Hexzyle

@Krakob

"Pardon me for answering a question intended for you, Fehzor, but I believe it's as simple as having the shield button work as weapon #2 button since well, it replaces the shield. There's that, one button and it's already in use by all of us."

I realize this, I wouldn't ask a question I could answer completely myself. What I'm referring to is how weapon switching would work.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 20:49

#29

Fehzor

Um. How it currently does? I thought I answered this in the OP. You'd switch your weapon, and it would switch one of them, the nonshield one, out. You couldn't switch your shield-slot weapon.

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 23:00

#30

Klipik

My idea.

I'm pretty sure I just took this idea from The Arsenal Podcast, but the last few weeks' episodes kind of mashed together in my head so I might have combined them into this. Sorry Lat~ :)

Dual wielding: When using a recipe to craft a weapon up a star level, you are presented with two options.

Option one: craft as normal.

Option two: craft into a half- or less-powerful version of the weapon, which would be usable by itself or as a dual-wielded weapon. Why would you want to do this if not for the dual wielding? It would cost half as much.

Usage: Two of this type of weapon can be equipped at once, one in a normal weapon slot and one in a special "dual-wield slot" next to each weapon slot. The Dual-wield slot is only unlocked when the main slot is filled with a dual-wieldable weapon, to prevent using a main weapon and a dual-class at the same time. When dual wielding, the shield is unusable - but the dual wielding weapon does not go in the shield slot because otherwise you would have no shield if you switched to a main weapon.

Characteristics:Dual-class weapons would be lesser versions of their main-class cousins, dealing less damage and having a less-powerful version of the charge attack. Attacking with the second weapon would be done with the shield key.

Charge Attacks: dual-class weapons would have a similar, but less powerful version of the main-class weapons’ charge attack. For example, a dual-class 5* brandish might have three explosions, instead of one. A dual-class AP might have a shorter-ranged charge attack with a hit limit.

Switching: Dual-wielded weapons stay together in a slot, so switching one weapon switches the other. For example, if you have a dual-class voltedge and a dual-class valiance in slot one, a main-class Levi in slot two, and a dual-class WRH and dual-class FF in slot three, switching will keep the dual sets together. You couldn’t switch from Volt/Valiance to WRH/Valiance.

P.S: I might have thought this up because I really want to see these and these. <(^_^)>

Wed, 05/15/2013 - 23:40

#31

Hexzyle

@Klipik

Switching

I was just thinking each dual wielded weapon would go in it's own slot, and switching between those two would determine which one goes in your primary hand, and which goes in your offhand. The dual wield weapon in slot 1 would be matched with the one in slot 2 (if there was no dual wield weapon in slot 2, or a regular weapon in that slot, the slot 1 weapon would be wielded on its own) and the one in slot 3 would be matched with slot 4.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 12:31

#32

Klipik

Why's that make a difference? There's no difference between main- and off-hand.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:46

#33

Hexzyle

@Klipik

There might be ^_^

I suggested separate slots because the current interface doesn't support dual-slotting weapons. This would minimize the amount of crap needed to be added to make this possible, while also allowing players to switch weapon comboes on the fly (since you can re-order your weapons without visiting an Arsenal Station)

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 03:16

#34

Reto-Da-Liz

Personally I still think dual wielding would never ever ever ever work.
First of all, we only have 5 fingers per hand, and it already is complicated as it is.
4 weapons, each one with a mapped key; shield; dash; shield bash; even battle sprites in a little time.

Also, how would you make switching between weapons work?
Let's say you have a set with: Voltedge, BTB, AP and Umbra.

You are currently wielding Voltedge and AP.
How do switch only one weapon? And how do you switch the one you want to switch (let's say voltedge) to the one you want (let's say BTB).
It would be way too tricky (if not impossible).

On the LD side:
Imagine a freaking striker with 2 swords. How does a guardian have a chance against that? They should have like... a -8 HP malus to be killed.

Me doezn't liek eet.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 05:41

#35

Arkate

...

Silly Reto. The striker shield will replace the offhand weapon.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 10:00

#36

Dragonicblaze

That is the whole point why

That is the whole point why there should be a separate Dual-wielding class, where the weapons are unique, and probably deal more dmg, but you have to sacrifice ur shield for it, but still attack using only 1 button. (PvE only)

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 14:51

#37

Xxpapaya

The papaya giggles

@Nick
But as the game evolved we discovered the play style was much faster and weapons witching needed to keep up with the pace of the game.

Witching? :3

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:29

#38

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Voltagger of Venombuster

This means two statis bombs can charge at once.

Also, PLEASE make sure this won't happen in LD.

So... with two DVS, will i move forward 7 tiles or the normal 3.5 tiles?

+/- 0

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 17:25

#39

Gent-Soopakoopa

@Qwez

This reply is a little late, but anyway, here's what I'm saying.

Someone could take a rocket hammer, do the first swing, then dash. As soon as they start
their dash, they do the first swing with the other hammer. Before their first dash is even over, they
have another one ready, and blast off again as soon as they start decelerating, and at that moment
do the first swing with the first one and repeat, dashing around literally non-stop.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:53

#40

Klipik

With two WRHes, you could ice skate around the world. Swing-dash... swing-dash...swing-dash... Not to mention pummeling everything in your way into submission.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:08

#41

Fireherat

well You have to fast and

well You have to fast and smart AND good to dual wielding easy and powerful and to also master it. Quad wielding ? HECK NO it have to 4 arms to do that or 2 swords as 1 or 2 guns as a 2 different shot gun . that the only way to Quad wield in this game. dual wielding? HECK YES! just get 2 swords,gunsbombs and your ready. Also does duel wielding shield sound like a good idea because you coul put 1 shield on top of a other and form a wal and then use a move that clones your self and the forms a Def line or wall . Dueling wielding rocket hammers would be fighting like you were pounding on something

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:15

#42

Klipik

"well You have to fast and smart AND good to dual wielding easy and powerful and to also master it. "

This sentece make senses too know won.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:25

#43

Zeyez

eyes trying to see the end to another end

show one point:
is impossible get 2 WRHs, after all, you only got this weapon by mission reward

about the dual wielding... if the weapons share this "cooldown attack animations" (keep striking with other weapon doesn't refresh amount of strikes of the first one) and make impossible charge both weapons at same time, i don't see so much problems

example: if i wield 2 DVS, use full combo of the main hand, and instantly use the backhand combo, when end this second combo, i need to wait, by little, to start use the weapons again
or switch the main weapon to other

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 23:28

#44

Xxpapaya

The papaya is hungry!!!

Screw dual-equiping weapons :P I'm gonna grab two papayas, and gobble them, tap dancing on the way

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 06:43

#45

Klipik

oops forgot

WRH and SRH, then.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 21:37

#46

Agentz

Differant series might work better...

As I have read through this thread, I have noticed a couple things: First off, players usually side with either a) A different class of sword for dual-wielding, or b) having two random weapons. I was obliged to side with opinion A at first, because who doesn't want two freakin' blitz needles to shoot the crap outta vana with? But I got to thinking, and I realized that would be WAAAY overpowered (even for me lol). So, I considerd the secondary option, B, as I'll call it, and soon found the reasoning in this. First off, a LOT less coding to fix bugs and test stuffs for the devs, making it more probable to them ( :3). Second, it just makes more sense. Having two random weaps would be SO confusing for me and other knights as well. I agree with the idea of having both attack and switch at the same time, and think this may hold a lot of potential. Such as dual blaster type guns, brandish type swords, smaller radius status bombs. I see a lot of potential in this and think the devs should definatly consider it ( xscoose for being to direct, if I am ^U^). Over all, I think this will be a great addition to the game, if it does indeed come.
-Z

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 12:35

#47

Iamwierd

How would this work?...

What if you charged up a flourish and a magnus at the same time and released at the same time? .3. Epic spinny death. Anywho, dual wielding two FF's at vana would be just plain hardcore. But when you think about it, you use your shield every mission you do, whether it be blocking, shield cancelling or shield bumping you use your shield a lot without thinking.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 13:59

#48

Coelydragon

Of all the dual wielding threads to necro...

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 14:20

#49

Krakob

Well here's the official opinion so why not

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 14:28

#50

Tgfbn

this would be a great idea

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How I would realistically make dual wielding work [real thread]