Spiral Knights - On Lockdown damage scores

On Lockdown damage scores

102 replies [Last post]

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 07:54

Zeddy

A couple of days ago, I scored over 72k damage in Lockdown using Deadly Crystal Bomb. I also have a video of it. It comes with nice music.

Now, the match is obviously staged. I convinced 7 friends to join the EU server during a time when the EU server was totally empty with me and then just had four of them walk into my shards wearing as much health as possible before heading back to the health pad to refill. This is very impressive, right? 72k damage? That's more than Feller's top score! It's more than most people's top score! But, of course, nobody's going to be impressed by it because I "cheated". I'm not impressed by it, myself, but it was fun to do.

Why am I bringing this up, anyway? Because I think my 72k damage highlights something fundamentally wrong with the mentality of Lockdown players. Remember that epic game of basketball where one player scored 100 points? I'm not making this up, there's a Wikipedia page listing basketball players who have individually scored 100 points in a single game of basketball. Before I link you to the list, I want you to think about one thing: Who is the best basketball player you can think about? Okay, remember that name. Now, click this link, press Ctrl+F and search for that name. I checked for "Michael Jordan", myself. If you don't know anything about basketball, don't worry, here's a wikipedia page linking the top 50 greatest basketball players.

I'll save you some time; I searched for the top 10 in that list, and none of them were present. Instead, you'll find people like this:

At the middle school level, 13-year-old 8th grader Bob Harrison scored all 139 of his team's points in a 139–8 win on February 3, 1941.
The first recorded instance was on March 8, 1913, when Herman Saygar of Culver High School (Indiana) scored 113 points against Winamac High School.
The first female to score 100 points at the high school level was Denise Long of Union-Whitten High School (Iowa), who scored 111 points during a state playoff game in the spring of 1968 against Dows High School.
The boys' high school record is 135 points, scored by Danny Heater on January 26, 1960.

Those weren't cherry-picked by me. They were all from the first paragraph on the Wikipedia page. Now, to be fair, there is one person on that top 50 list present on the 100 scorer list. His name is Wilt Chamberlain, and he once scored exactly 100 points against the New York Knicks in 1962. This is the only time in the history of professional, American basketball that's ever happened. I'm sure Wilt Chamberlain is a good player, but as you can see, he's not agreed to be the best player, and I strongly doubt that has much to do with that one incident.

Are you picking up where I'm going with this yet? I have no doubts that Bob Harrison was a competent basketball player, but he didn't score 139 points because he was super special awesome basketball player; he scored them because everyone on his team and his opposing team were 13 years old and didn't give a damn.

It should be obvious how this relates to Lockdown. Whether it's damage, caps, or defence, having a high score is not a badge of honour. In fact, it's the opposite! High numbers is almost a mark of shame. A telltale sign that the contest was totally out of balance, and you were the one-eyed man being king of the blind. The least crippled amongst the whole flock. Getting 50k damage in Lockdown is just as impressive as killing thousands of ants by peeing on an anthill; which is to say it's not actually impressive at all, and it certainly did nothing to demonstrate your "skill" or your worth as a "real Lockdown player.

This is Zeddy, telling you that when you post a picture of a high amount of damage, caps or anything else in Lockdown, this is what you are:

"The highest single game total in worldwide organized basketball history, irrespective of gender, age or competition level, is 272 points, scored by a 13-year old boy named Mats Wermelin of Sweden. He recorded every single point in his team's 272–0 win on February 5, 1974, during a regional boys' tournament held in Stockholm."

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:02

Canozo

My reactions to this post:

No offense but...
Im
too
lazy
loool

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:08

Our-Little-Ajo

I was going to read, but then I saw the words

"Shards" "LD" "Zeddy"

And then I though... I rather f@p with a glove full with glass dust than read this crap.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:36

Onekone

No offence, mate, but I doubt

No offence, mate, but I doubt somebody will listen.

Look at Counter-Strike. In base it's team-based game about completing objectives (rescue hostages/plant bomb). Look at professional CS (like some cybersport leagues), where people *work* as a team towards goals. And look at public servers, where most of time it's basically TDM, curbstomping novice players and having people often accuse each other in using cheats/aimbot (*) after improbable death

* Auto-aim in Spiral Knights is a Vog damn feature, not a cheat! It's up to you to use it or not, but for Cradle sake, you must deal with it instead of whining like puppy!

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:36

Onekone

No offence, mate, but I doubt

For Vog sake, double posting follows me everywhere

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:41

Zeddy

@Canozo and Feller
Your replies are perfect. Thank you for helping me prove my point.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:43

Draycos

Good to see that I'm not the only one who says high scores mean nothing.

I remember saying something less elaborate than this with the same meaning, but no one seemed to care. I personally believe that everyone already knows it's true and refuses to admit it...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:48

Neodasus

See it's funny because 99% of

See it's funny because 99% of those players can't pass for beans. Kind of like how we get this guy with 21k and 0 caps--team loses by 110. Why don't we just admit that each cap = 1k damage. This way I can tell the 14k 0-0 guy to suck eggs and that my 11k 9-6 makes me more credit than he will ever be.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:54

Zeddy

@Draycos
I read that post! I meant to mention it in the topic but got caught up in wikipedia articles about basketball and forgot about it. Sorry!

@Neodasus
While I do agree with you, the point I'm making in this topic doesn't just apply to damage, but also other scores. Ultimately, they all come down to how bad other people in the game are.

You're a cool guy, by the way. We've had arguments in the past but I have much respect for you.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:55

Bleyken

Too much words... resume plz

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:05

#10

Zeddy

@Contri

If you look at most sports, professional games feature very low scores while you only find enormous score numbers in small-league games with litte kids playing. Therefore, high numbers are not impressive and not worth bragging about.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:20

#11

Atacii

...

I assume you're trolling, because your argument is horrible.

If you get a 100 on a physics test, you are good at science, even if you're not the next Einstein. Those kids you mentioned were certainly all very skilled and driven individuals, even if they didn't go on to make millions in the NBA. Excessive pride may be ugly, but so is ridiculing others' achievements.

LD is won by retaining points. The first way to do this is by directly fighting off opponents, with success reflected by DAMAGE and possibly defends. The second way is by area denial, with success not reflected by the provided stats.

Having lots of caps means that you aren't holding points, which is not ideal, but sometimes inevitable. Regardless, this is not something to strive for...

My point being that while the 2k/3/0 bomber might be just as useful as the 20k/5/4 striker, the 20k/5/4 striker is still better than the 8k/10/0 striker.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:30

#12

Canozo

Lol who even said you need

Lol who even said you need skill to play Lockdown and get 30k damage and brag about it, if thats what you mean.

Come on, this is Spiral Knights, not league of legends...

Lockdown is won by capping, little communication and pretty much spamming Polaris/Gran Faust.

And as the post above says, those kids where certainly skilled and the other team probably stinked really bad. Same happens in lockdown, a "skilled" individual just comes on RLD and whipes the entire enemy team.

If that is not what you meant, let me now because I havent read that wall of text yet.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:33

#13

Little-Juances

It's expected everyone will react this way

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:36

#14

Our-Little-Ajo

Well

I think we should remove bombers for the game and add some ninjas with laser swords and a pikachu as a mountable pet.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:41

#15

Wehasband

Now now Zeddy..
How will people like me, who spend most of our time and effort in lockdown feel about this information?
Besides, it hasn't been made clear yet on how we can measure skill in the PVE arena

When you look at the post-match statistics the highest numbers are in the damage column so that makes it easier to label it as our worth as players even if just had plenty to do with how many times I hit someone with my hemmer.

I also think it's unfair to compare LD to a sport, seeing as the average LD player exhibits behavior you couldn't compare to sportsmanship, with our esteemed bloggers on this forum demonstrating their maturity through relevant posts.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:41

#16

Neodasus

@Atacii Except dmg in

@Atacii

Except dmg in lockdown is relative. You could be icing the same scrublords 9000x and score some sweet looking numbers--or dunk on several pros and leave with a meager 6-7k. Sure, the box score at the end of games can tell you many things about the player and the opposing team--but it does not tell you what happens inbetween the numbers. What's the sense in killing people that were not capping anyway? I've seen too many games where the enemy gets pushed to their last CP and they resort to an all out brawl at base without bothering to take the other lane. No reason to get impressed over pointless skirmish numbers.

For instance, you gave the example of the 20k/5/4 striker and the 8k/10/0 striker. Explain why he had to cap 10 times if he scored 20k and 4 defends? There is such a thing as misdirected offense and scores like this prove it.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 10:17

#17

Shidara

He does have a point, though.

He does have a point, though. If you are skilled enough, average and casual players essentially become cannon-fodder, adding to your damage score. I can maul 20K+ damage on a good day with little resistance just as I could 13K damage on a good day with decent resistance. Of course, that doesn't say much as I am only average when it comes to PvP, but if you were to go up against players 'on your level' so to speak, you wouldn't pull off the same numbers.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 10:28

#18

Zeddy

@Atacii
Physics tests are not competitive sports against a random selection of individuals. Physics tests are more akin to PvE: The results are reproducible and show something objective.

Why do people suggest I argue that caps and defends are more important than damage? I'm not. ALL of the numbers are pointless in random Lockdown. They all show just something that kinda happened because you got lucky with all the random opponents and teammates. The guy who gets 50k damage in a match is skilled, yes. But only more skilled than the other people in the match. Not necessarily more skilled than the guy who got 16k damage in a match against much more difficult opponents. If you disagree with that, then you have to concede that I am one of the best players Lockdown has ever seen.

Either high damage numbers are meaningless, or I'm better than you. Which one is it?

@Wehasband
You measure skill in Lockdown exactly like with other sports: Through tournaments. Gather players who want to be the best and pit them against eachother. Do it regularly and often, see which team comes out on top the most.

It's not unfair to compare Lockdown to a sport at all. There are plenty of immature, rude kids playing football, but that has little to do with football itself. What can be argued, however, is that the current state of Lockdown does not lend itself to even having champions. In order to have champions, one needs to hold regular, organized championships.

Perhaps the game will need some kind of automated GvG system?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 10:52

#19

Shidara

I wouldn't be opposed to

I wouldn't be opposed to that. Guilds could sign up for a Lockdown League or something of the sort and with enough guilds host tournaments to show which is the Guild to lock-down in Lockdown. Sounds much more interesting than the standard 1-v-1 deathmatch tourneys that come and go.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 11:01

#20

Dragonicblaze

@ Zeddy

Lol so you are saying anyone who does high dmg should be ashamed of themselves? u sir either fail at life, or a sore loser or.. haz a dumbarse logic. In either of those cases u should be ashamed of urself as well ^_^

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 11:08

#21

Zeddy

@Dragonicblaze

Nope, that's not what I said.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 11:19

#22

Dragonicblaze

Well the way u put it is SO

Well the way u put it is SO bad.. IF ur tryn to say caps and defends r more important..

If that is the case u should know defends r directly related dmg.. high defends, high dmg.. If you are mitezeuss who goes to opponent base cap point and stays there whole match doing 30k dmg.. then he definitely is a + to the team. Nubs tend to fall for that.. so wat is ur argument? it ALL depends on various factors and dmg does factor in to how helpful u were to the team..

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 11:28

#23

Dragneel-Wiki

I cry at the level of "Reading" of the forumers... It's just pitiful. For God's sake read well.
And if you have a drip of intelligence, you can't understand what's the purpose of this thread...

/loses hope in the reading skills of the community...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 11:38

#24

Dragonicblaze

I dont think so Dragneel.. I

I dont think so Dragneel.. I dont think so.

By what u said that none of the numbers in LD mean anything.. we r back to square 1 that ur either a sore loser or u got a dumbarse logic ^_^

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 11:51

#25

Luguiru

Zeds, what did I tell you about trying to reason with idiots?

They might explode if you use big words or spell correctly.
Keep going so I can watch.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 11:56

#26

Dragonicblaze

@Luguiru

IKR keep going so I see who the idiots of the forums r. OBViously better an everyone else, here I made this crown seat for u, sit on it and watch the entertainment of us lowly peasant idiots. -face palm-
:)

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 12:10

#27

Zeddy

@Luguiru
I believe I will! After all, reasoning with Lockdown players is a lot like getting 50k damage against Lockdown players.

@Dragonicblaze
". IF ur tryn to say caps and defends r more important.."

"Why do people suggest I argue that caps and defends are more important than damage? I'm not. ALL of the numbers are pointless in random Lockdown. "

Damage numbers aren't meaningless, per se. They show how much damage you did against the particular people you were fighting. In random Lockdown, this group of people is random. Hence, your damage numbers are going to be random, too. If I threw dice at my table and showed you I rolled double sixes, would you be impressed by that? No? Then why is 30k damage impressive?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 12:15

#28

Draycos

I'm disappointed that people

I'm disappointed that people are misinterpreting this thread.

I'll spell it out.

This thread is saying that you can't judge who's good and who's bad from stat numbers alone because they're variables. You get higher scores if you're stomping people that are, relative to you, nooblords. You get lower, more even scores if you're fighting against people closer or above your skill level.

All high scores mean is that you were massively better than your opposition, or you had more opportunities.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 12:15

#29

Spookington

First things first...

1.) Zeddy, I wholeheartedly agree. I think the first time I went striker I did nothing but spam Gran Faust and got something like 22k. I wasn't good, my opponents were bad and my weapon was overpowered - they had no chance, and when I pointed it out, I got called out for it. I think you have the right idea, damage is important, but when it's ridiculously high, it just means that the odds were stacked horribly in your favor.

2.) I hate coming across as a grammar nazi, but Dragonicblaze, your spelling and sentences are so atrocious, it's causing me to wince when I read your posts. I'm not even trying to be offensive - your whole "lol u suck dumb idot" lolspeak makes you sound sub-human. It makes it very difficult for anyone to take you seriously.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 12:20

#30

Mindfreaked

The edge

Holy [horsefeathers], Remember the days when Lockdown wasn't this edgy?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 12:31

#31

Dragonicblaze

I am not trying to offend

I am not trying to offend anyone.. but trying to say that all the numbers in LD r meaningless is SO wrong. of course u do more dmg/cap/defends than the rest because ur better than them.. AND Of course you will get a relatively lower score when you are fighting people at your own level..

Basically ur putting everyone down in RLD with good scores because they should "go pick a fight with someone their own size"? Really? Is this the point? This is nothing better than the people whining in LD and being sore losers, again no offense, just wat I am making of the meaning of this thread.

Sorry if my sentence structure and crap is bad but saying I am sub-human cause of it? lol?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 12:35

#32

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

"Keep going so I can watch." Lug, your the best box in the world. Can I join you? Grabs some popcorn

Anyway, Zeddy, you are dead on.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:01

#33

Our-Little-Ajo

Contri

Aw, that's not Contri

Hey Contri change your avatar, the noobs are copying your style

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:01

#34

Zeddy

@Dragonicblaze
I'm not telling you to stop beating up newbies. In fact, go ahead and beat up newbies, they might learn a thing or two. I hope, however, you'll excuse me if I'm not very impressed by your screenshots of beating up newbies.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:07

#35

Dragonicblaze

Alright I agree with your

Alright I agree with your last comment there. GF spam can literally get u 20k easy and 30k+ if u hav ASI and skill behind it...

Although I will cry a little that crazy dmgs will not be appreciated as before ;~; why u gotta hurt LD players ego, they need love too.. :(

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:43

#36

Atacii

...

In general, just because a metric is not perfect( which, for non-trivial examples, is all of them) doesn't mean it's useless.

More specifically, while the SS'd 30~50k damage game is not representative of a player's skill all the time, it is still meaningful because we all have those types of games. It's just that players are showcasing their ability( approximated by damage) at the upper end of the curve instead of in the middle.

Which is really the only option, if you think about it, unless you expect people to create spreadsheets and record a bunch of matches or something.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:53

#37

Eclaium

The longer a match is, the higher damage/caps/defends you get and when a match goes on long, it is when two teams are balanced which means you get about the same level of players mostly average to good players make those balanced games.

Just saying.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:56

#38

Zeddy

@Atacii

50k damage games are not the upper end. Maybe read my posts?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:08

#39

Feyi-Feyi

@Zeddy

For someone with some pretty good forum posts and usually decent arguments this thread.. Is subpar.
It's full of faulty comparisons and generalizations.

9/10 would not bang.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:47

#40

Father-Frost

I agree with Zeddy, lets say

I agree with Zeddy, lets say I do what I always do and freeze lock strikers I kept the whole team locked down. My end stats look like this 280 dmg 1 cap 0 defends I was keeping the whole team from doing anything but due to the stats it would seem I'm worthless.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:01

#41

Atacii

@Zeddy

Making the ridiculous assumption that you are not trolling me and simply misunderstood my post...

"Upper end" does not refer to the caliber of opponents a player is facing, but the highest category of a frequency graph on that player's damage. Think bell curve, with "upper end of the curve" referring to the 'right tail'. The idea being that the 'shape' of each player's damage distribution is the same, and so can be approximated by a high score.

If this doesn't make sense, a similar way of saying it is that I am assuming that there is a correlation between a player's average damage and their highest damage. So a high score is meaningful not because it shows a player massacring noobs, but because it suggests a player's average damage, which is supposedly a decent measure of skill. At least for the generic striker role.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:09

#42

Nottheanswer

A few thoughts:

Your analogy doesn't quite hold water. Yes, it is possible to get high damages with under/never used weapons. But, as in your screenshot/video, this probably requires quite a bit of setup. That is to say, it does not happen in a normal game. In contrast, a nontrivial number of the basketball players who scored over 100 points did so in a normal match.

That said, I agree to an extent with your conclusion, or at least part of it. I would argue that the current metrics of damage, captures, and defends are insufficient. However, referring to them as "useless" means in the most literal sense that they have no use. That is patently false. At the very least, they often provide a source of feeling personal pride. I agree that it's easy to inflate damage, capture, and defend numbers even in normal, non-setup games. But that hardly renders them completely useless.

Are there better metrics? Certainly. But most would have to be found in long-run averages, in stark contrast with LD's resetting every week and rank based (as much if not more) on how much one plays, rather than on how much one wins.

TL;DR your 72k is not quite a basketball player's 100 points; "useless" is too strong a word; until LD becomes more than a tacked-on PvP diversion we won't have strongly useful metrics.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:31

#43

Dragonicblaze

Honestly the only part I

Honestly the only part I truly agree with, without over-thinking LD scoreboards, is that Zeddy will not be impressed with high LD scores.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:32

#44

Zeddy

@Atacii
"If this doesn't make sense, a similar way of saying it is that I am assuming that there is a correlation between a player's average damage and their highest damage."

I refer you to my 72k damage, a one-time incident. Yes, it was set up, but I could've gotten lucky ended up with the same result. Just yesterday I fought someone who kept running into my Nitronome and no ability to dodge it. All I'd need is a match of four such people who had a grudge against me for some reason.

@Nottheanswer
The point I'm trying to show with my video, specifically, is that by spending half an hour to modify my opponents, I have far surpassed even the most skilled Lockdown player in terms of damage. Instead of modifying my skill, I modified my opponents. It is extremely clear which one has the most impact on damage numbers. I didn't even get more than the minimum amount of players required to start a Lockdown match. I could've taken my numbers far higher by involving the amount of people usually participating in high-damage matches.

"In contrast, a nontrivial number of the basketball players who scored over 100 points did so in a normal match."

One time over fifty years ago is a very trivial number, unless you're talking about all the high school matches. Those are not normal matches, they're matches where most of the kids playing probably didn't even care. None of those high school kids would have half a chance against Michael Jordan, who has never scored 100 points.

Damage numbers on their own context do not reflect much regarding the player's skill, it is not a valid metric for anything beyond "does this guy have half a clue what he's doing and is he also focused on getting a high damage number y/n?". The player with 40k damage is surely better than everyone else in that particular match, but that doesn't really say much at all.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:39

#45

Feyi-Feyi

I think you lack in striker experience to judge this zeddy.
You don't just do 40k. No matter how bad your opponents are.

40k is not dying, and killing every player on the other team as soon as possible. Try doing that for 8 minutes straight.
You have to be goddamn efficient for 40k, and in that way it does say much. Even when looked at generally, not just in the match context.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:02

#46

Misten

+1 to Zeddy. Agree with you.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:22

#47

Nottheanswer

I'll grant that there's a much larger sample size of basketball players and matches than LD players or matches. It's not fair to assume that the people in the matches "didn't care". They also weren't against Michael Jordan, they were against people of a similar age, which is probably a fairly good normalizer in terms of experience in basketball. I'm not dismissing the analogy completely, I just feel that it doesn't quite prove what you want it to prove. That is to say, in LD as it is right now, you'll *never* get a lucky 72k with Deadly Crystal Bomb.

That said, I still don't feel that it's fair to say that "damage numbers on their own context do not reflect much regarding the player's skill". You yourself say that "the player with 40k damage is surely better than everyone else in that particular match"; I would argue that this is actually somewhat impressive when there are other skilled players in the same match. Maybe it's more a question of what really would reflect player skill, and what would be a useful metric in your mind? I think everyone will agree that it's possible to beat the system; cf. your 72k or other people's 1m+ damage screenshots. But a 40k in a normal game? I'd argue that it does in fact reflect a fair amount regarding that player's skill.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:30

#48

Narfle

+1 zeddy

I have seen many, many matches where a team lost in large part because of strikers throwing themselves at the other team to try to post big damage numbers, neglecting capping and general teamwork. You can quibble with the examples all you like, but OP's point is that the culture of obsessing over big damage numbers doesn't make any sense because damage numbers can't really be relied on as an indicator of skill--and in my experience that is true. No, I'm not suggesting that people who post high damage numbers are UNskilled, but here is another example of what Zeddy is talking about: when I had just started playing LD, I posted 12k in a random match as a guardian (still the highest damage I have ever posted). Was I good? God no, I was terrible, but the other team was worse and I spammed DA the entire time. On the other hand, in one of the matches that I would consider a real personal best I posted a big 0 damage, and despite that at the end of the match it wasn't the strikers on my team that the other players were cursing at--'twas little ol' me.
I don't know anyone obsessive enough to keep spreadsheets, but the players that I would consider to be really skilled demonstrate that skill with consistency and teamwork, not by pushing to post big numbers. Take that as you will.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 17:15

#49

Krakob

But if numbers mean nothing, how will I then compensate for my tiny manhood?
Are you saying I'm not better than you?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 17:21

#50

Vanbamf

agreed. bravo!

I completely agree with you Zeddy. And to agree with you would make me a hypocrite - I'm guilty of posting screenshots to prove nothing to everyone, and something to nobody. I still find the end of match data to be some indicator of how much fun I had in said match, and not much more. I appreciate you stooping to our level and posting a similar screenshot, great score btw. I wish you would go one step further and submit it to any lists that request proof of 'skill' with a screenshot. Why wouldn't your screenshot count? I think it could open up some doors, inspiring others to create similar feats, and proving your point even more. I vote for its submission. (please submit it)
I would love to play a match where I could get 50 captures, as that's mostly all I enjoy anymore. To do so would involve a little setup, and minimal fighting. Does getting 50 caps mean anything? Nope. But I'm sure I would have fun getting them. Getting 100 points in a basketball game might not mean anything to you now, but imagine how much fun that was for that 1 player during that game. Meaningless, egotistical, yet fun. I think players get caught up with those feats, because winning and losing means nothing to them, as long as they achieved what they set out to achieve.
(submit screenshot, umm... please?)
wait... Krakob wins... *applause*

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On Lockdown damage scores