Spiral Knights - Lockdown science

Lockdown science

10 replies [Last post]

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 04:13

Zeddy

I have a topic in Wiki Editors where I'm trying to figure out the exact details behind defence and damage mechanics. So far, it seems like defence is linear until it reduces an amount of damage below itself.

You can find the topic here.

Today I did some tests with deathmarks and such. T3 Lockdown appears to be happening at depth 25. If you want to know how much damage your weapon does in Lockdown, check out my damage chart by depth and add 70 damage to damage versus weak and 140 to damage versus neutral if it's a normal-only weapon. That will give you the damage against deathmarked targets.

For non-deathmarked targets with no defence against your weapon (rocket hammer vs skolver), subtract 100 damage. Everyone has about 100 defence against everything, even if they aren't wearing any armour against it.

A full skolver set gives about 38-40 piercing defence. Subtract 40 piercing defence vs skolver, 40 elemental vs vog, 40 shadow vs shadowsun.

More to come. Contributions to the science cause are welcome.

Oh, and players have 40 or 41 health per pip. Hexzyle and some other guy seem to think 41.

Charts!
Bomb damage

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 05:24

Krakob

Picture of today's science.
Funny. We started with trying to gather damage numbers for Valiance and Sentenza only to more or less have gotten the Death Mark completely figured out. We also did duels for Happy vs Healthy.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 08:14

Klipik-Forum

How much faster would this go if you could see damage numbers in LD?

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 08:58

Zeddy

@Klipik-Forum

This stuff would've been thoroughly mapped within 1 month of Lockdown coming out.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 09:00

Krakob

@Klipik

I'm in no position to answer as Zeddy did most of the maths but it's not hard to calculate how much damage an attack inflicts.
You take a weapon and shoot it at your opponent until they are one shot from dying. This will leave them with x% hp left. Subtract x% from 100% and you'll have the damage inflicted in % of their max HP. Divide this by the amount of shots fired to get the average damage inflicted by the shots. The reason you fire as many shots as possible is to get a more accurate average. Note that the % value extracted is a decimal number less than 1. You take this times their max hp and you'll have the amount of pips one shot takes away. Take a further step and take this times 40 or 41 to get the final value in damage inflicted.
The formula is as follows:
(amount of % removed/shots fired)*max hp in pips*41

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 10:04

Zeddy

I've mapped out how much damage bombs do in LD. It's not complete and it's not completely accurate, but it gives a good idea. For fun, I also mapped out old RSS.

Weapon: Deathmarked target / No defence / Basic defence (such as full skolver versus piercing)

Nitronome: 360 / 260 / 220
Big Angry Bomb: 414 / 314 / 274
Scintillating Sun Shards: 222 / 122 / 80-ish
old Radiant Sun Shards: 478 / 278 /238

I'm uh, getting a sense of why it was reworked. I still don't think it was done so in the right way, but yeah.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 14:58

Zeddy

Thanks a bundle to killbotxtreme and his wonderful thread.

By crossreferencing with my own damage numbers, I can tell you the exact defence values we have in Lockdown at the moment. Here are the facts:

Lockdown depth:
I had Soral attack a Slush Puppy in LD for me with a couple of alchemers for me as well as with some other weapons. All numbers correspond to values found at depth 25. From this, I find it safe to assume T3 LD occurs at depth 25. T2 LD is likely to occur in D15 and T1 at D5 according to reports from fellow players. I have no interest in investigating this to confirm it, it sounds good to me.

Natural defence:
Warmaster Rocket Hammer's finishing stroke, at depth 25, inflicts 373 damage against weak targets. The difference between weak/neutral is 70 damage. True damage for WRH should therefore be 373 + 70 = 443. killbotxtreme's sword values are all with max damage. Let's apply max damage:

443 * 124% = 549

killbotxtreme's damage against targets with no elemental armour: 449

549 - 449 = 100

I have also tested out other weapons and this is consistent. You can even see it in one of killbot's own numbers:

"Barbarous thorn blade max damage bonus: First swing: 315
Barbarous thorn blade damage bonus max attacking someone in death warning: 415 damage
The people in the first 2 tests all had no pierce resist (both were full snarbolax with no pierce uvs)"

Piercing defence on skolver

From the holy scripture, killbot's topic:
"Leviathan Blade: Charge: 1 swing: 482 (resistance: full mad bomber)"

At depth 25, Final Flourish' charge (identical to Levi's charge) does 432 to weak targets.

432 + 70 = 502
502 * 124% = 622
622 - 100 = 522
522 - 582 = 40

The normal defence of full mad bomber is equal to the piercing defence of full skolver.

The low amount of defence on a full class set is 40. This matches my test using the charge from WRH. However, there is an inconsistency. According to killbot's topic, skolver only defends 25

Normal defence on skolver

This is a bit tougher, but we have this bit of information to go on:
"Glacius charge: 236 per ball and 715 for the swipe (resistance: full skolver)"

We're gonna work with that 715 damage. First, let's calculate the pure damage of a brandish swipe at D25:

Wiki says 564 versus effective target.
564 + 70 (elemental defence on a construct) + 140 (normal defence on a construct) = 774
774 * 124% =~ 960
960 - 100 (natural elemental defence) - 100 (natural normal defence) = 760
760 - 715 = 45

Full skolver has about 45 normal defence.

UVs
Short and simple:

"Full damage bonus BTB vs full skolver (no uvs): 290 damage
Full damage bonus BTB vs full skolver with one pierce low: 284"

A low uv is about 6 defence. I'm going to assume it to be five-point-something and correspond somewhat closely with the gap between skolver's piercing and skolver's normal.

A double max, then, should be about 48. Just about an entire suit of armour, and combined with actual armour will nearly double your defence compared to no armour.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 15:04

Neodasus

Very useful in counting hits!

Very useful in counting hits! It would help if you listed whether or not you were using a dmg multiplier though.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 16:01

Father-Frost

Zeddy your blinding me with

Zeddy your blinding me with science.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 16:09

Tenkii

hohh

I was about to ask you to test something (deathmark on 0def), when I actually read the OP and read this:
For non-deathmarked targets with no defence against your weapon (rocket hammer vs skolver), subtract 100 damage. Everyone has about 100 defence against everything, even if they aren't wearing any armour against it.

^ this is exactly what I thought I had seen once, trying to compare deathmark damage using Valiance vs Divine set (no normal def).

Good job :V

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 23:24

#10

Blue-Flood

Just gota say, this is pretty

Just gota say, this is pretty cool stuff. Thanks for the research!

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