Spiral Knights - A possible way to make hammers less overpowered in lockdown without compromising the dash

A possible way to make hammers less overpowered in lockdown without compromising the dash

15 replies [Last post]

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 04:31

Iam-Darkness

'ello all! Here I have a suggestion on how we could make hammers more appropriate for lockdown use. At current moment, hammers - as awesome as they are - are nearly impossible for even strikers to reliably avoid. As we all know, this is due to the dash. So, after reading another knight's post (and being killed a few too many times by hammer spammers on lockdown), I came up with an idea for how to put a stop to this: a hammer dash cooldown!

How it Works: If a player uses the dash for the hammer, they will gain a timer similar to the dash timer that is visible in the HUD. As long as the timer is in effect (about 5 seconds perhaps?), the hammer user cannot use the dash, and instead is left to use a two-hit combo similar to that of a troika (the charged attack is unaffected by this phenomenon simply due to how vulnerable it leaves the user). Advantages of this setup include:

- Hammer spammers would no longer be able to overwhelm rival lockdown teams single-handedly and would be forced to use more skill in their battles, similar to sealed sword and troika-wielding lockdown players, with the dash being an occasional goody to help deal with especially annoying players

- Hammer users would be less likely to fly into traps (I.E spikes) in PvE gameplay, and now need to use skill to avoid enemy attacks rather than simply being able to fly out of the way

- Hammer no longer has the highest DPS of any weapon and thus would not unfairly advantage players who have the money to buy operation crimson hammer

This is my suggestion. Please comment on whether or not you think it is a good idea, and please be respectful in your comments.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 04:50

Dragonicblaze

hammer is utter crap without

hammer is utter crap without its dash lol, and hammer dash isnt as OP as people (nubs) tend to think.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 05:42

Krakob

Hammers aren't OP.

Why do people think hammers are OP? They're naturally relatively OP but that's not okay as they're as powerful as toothpicks or so, and P2P gear can't be relatively OP because that's game breaking, while having OP weapons available to everyone is for some reason totally okay.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 07:16

Hexzyle

[comment deleted]

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 07:31

Waffleconecake

AWW THWACCCK NAAWWHHH -1

You don't need to "balance" the Hammer, if you nerf it all you are going to do is make the freaking brandish line more dominant and make it ever more of a clone war of skolvers. Please don't make any suggestions for items you have not used as you clearly have not used the hammer. I am only asking this of you so that you avoid making bad threads that don't bring any thing, you shouldn't suggest any thing for an item line if you have not used it.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 07:45

Troupe-Forums

Hammer isn't OP. Brandish, Sealed Swords are OP.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 08:31

Klipik-Forum

Half the things we use in PvP are OP. Actually, more like most.

The problem isn't that hammer is too strong, it's that it's too spammy and too easy to use for its effectiveness aginst higher-skilled players.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 08:41

Little-Juances

What's the difference between hammers and the forward thusts of a flourish?

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 08:46

Waffleconecake

Seerusly guies...

Are you trying to say using a brandish or a sealed sword weapon takes skill? does it have a very long time to use combo that leaves you open for damage, does it have a pure damage type that makes it very bad when used on things that reisist it? Does it take skill to charge and fire a long range beam at a thing you don't like?

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 11:43

Pawsmack

@People

Earlier I was eating and playing T2 Lockdown at the same time so I whipped out my Hammer because I knew it would be easier to use with only one hand. I was able to walk up to a group of 4 people and repeatedly right click my mouse... They were all dead in less than 10 seconds, Guardians and everything. ._. Hammer is OP in T2 Lockdown for sure. In T3 Lockdown? Eh, not compared to some guy in full Vog Cub combo spamming a 5* Brandish around.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 12:31

#10

Earthboundimmortal

uhhh

brandish isn't op,
first, it isn't that strong, if you have any vog things you can take many hits.
2nd, it isn't that fast, its "medium" speed for a reason
3rd, the charge attack does leave you open, because you can't move while you are doing it and I've been killed many times using its charge attack.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 13:33

#11

Mtax

U mad bro?

I didn't paid real money to get DA.

@Few people up; Theres no op weapons. There are underpowered weapons.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 15:29

#12

Klipik-Forum

@Juances: A hammer combo/lunge goes farther, is safer, and executes faster than a flourish combo, or even arguably a flourish charge.

@Waffle: Yes. Skill is relative. And we are talking strictly about PvP here, so no you cannot just "charge and fire a long range beam at a thing you don't like". All swords leave you open for a (relatively) long time if you do a full combo, as well.

@Paw: Oh, you haven't even tried T1 yet. Try stopping a hammer when the next fastest weapon is slightly faster than a brandish and does like no damage with a small hitbox. Not fun...

@Mtax: No, it's the opposite. There are balanced weapons and overpowered weapons. There may be more OP weapons than balanced ones, but that doesn't change the fact that they are too good in both PvE and PvP.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:40

#13

Iam-Darkness

Hmmm....thinking about these responses...

Do have a valid point about the overpoweredness being mainly a tier 2 and especially tier 1 issue. Other than hammers, VERY few weapons in those classes can reliably 3 or 2-shot players and all of them are quite risky to use (*Cough* sealed sword *cough*). So, I have come up with a compromise: how about only prototype and stable rocket hammers gain delays between dash uses while the warmaster rocket hammer doesn't change? For example:

- The tier 1 hammer (which seems to be the most overpowered) would gain a 7 second delay between dash opportunities

- The tier 2 hammer would gain a 4 second delay

- The tier 3 hammer is unaffected because most swords in tier 3 will kill you very quickly anyway (something that cannot normally be said of the above tiers)

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 13:29

#14

The-Mighty-Potato

Solution:

Purchase Operation Crimson Hammer, if you can't I have a backup:

Get TF2 and buy 1 thing real cheap (so you unlock the premium version or whatever, I've lost interest in the game a long time ago so I don't know much about it anymore) this will allow you to trade items. Play and get items until you get roughly 2.5Kce items worth of stuff (that's how much OCH is worth (I think)). Then buy a copy of OCH from someone. Then you can play OCH, get your hammer and dash everyone to death in LD. Happy dashing! :3 (BTW I love my T3 hammer and you won't do anything to nerf it D:).

BTW I don't know if you own a hammer but it sounds like you don't.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 14:40

#15

Doctorspacebar

Node 53120 is credit to team

Use a bomb. They can't easily dash through a haze cloud. Heck, Dark Retribution might be great for hammer users since the dash removes invincibility frames... muahahahaha.

Search

A possible way to make hammers less overpowered in lockdown without compromising the dash