Spiral Knights - Zeddy+Fehzor's talk show, Episode 1 (On grinding and guild halls)

Zeddy+Fehzor's talk show, Episode 1 (On grinding and guild halls)

29 replies [Last post]

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:13

Fehzor

Grinding

2:18 PM - ‏: What would you do to stop players from grinding?
2:18 PM - Zeddy: well uh
2:18 PM - Zeddy: what's the alternative to grinding?
2:19 PM - Zeddy: grinding means playing the same stuff over and over, isn't it?
2:19 PM - Zeddy: you'd pretty much need to constantly spew out new content
2:19 PM - ‏: Grinding = playing the game entirely to make money because it feels good to receive an external boost in your ego; not grinding = playing the game because its a good game and you like it
2:20 PM - Zeddy: well
2:20 PM - Zeddy: think I'd give the players something to shoot for
2:20 PM - Zeddy: know how Lockdown has a weekly top list?
2:20 PM - ‏: We already have that with the "level leader" thing in the event hub.
2:20 PM - ‏: In various forms.
2:21 PM - Zeddy: well yeah, but that's lame
2:21 PM - ‏: True.
2:21 PM - Zeddy: put a high score on each gate
2:21 PM - Zeddy: scores are decided by damage taken, monsters beaten, time spent
2:21 PM - ‏: And why would I care more about that than looking cool standing around in Haven.
2:21 PM - Zeddy: they could display as seperate categories
2:21 PM - ‏: ?
2:22 PM - Zeddy: problem is, gates are randomized
2:22 PM - Zeddy: so such a score would be pretty representative of how lucky you were with a gate
2:22 PM - Zeddy: but then again same with Lockdown
2:23 PM - ‏: True.
2:23 PM - ‏: And you're also forgetting that no one knows what those weird crystals we carry on our backs do any more.
2:23 PM - ‏: That no one cares about the arcade, they just fight, get their crowns, call it quits.
2:24 PM - ‏: And it wouldn't change that, because they're grinding for UV'd gear much of the time.
2:24 PM - Zeddy: well I dunno
2:25 PM - Zeddy: maybe if you score high on a stage in the arcade, the slot machine thingy could give better rewards, like punch tickets
2:25 PM - ‏: That is true.
2:25 PM - ‏: But wouldn't that just entice players to play more FSC so that they can get better at FSC and grind faster?
2:26 PM - ‏: Unless it was only in the arcade, which might get some players to go to FSC there, but the mission system, contrary to popular belief, didn't invent FSC farming. It just facilitated.
2:27 PM - ‏: But perhaps we are going about this the wrong way.
2:28 PM - ‏: Your idea was basically just inventing a new FSC.
2:28 PM - ‏: By giving them an incentive to play the arcade instead of FSC.
2:28 PM - ‏: Which is no better than having them play through FSC in the first place, no?
2:28 PM - ‏: And if you give them their gear faster, they just farm for accessories, and if you give them those, they keep going for other stuff.
2:29 PM - Zeddy: it really doesn't matter how good a game is
2:30 PM - Zeddy: people are going to stop playing it pretty quick if you don't give them things to do
2:30 PM - Zeddy: VVVVVV was pretty good, but I'm never playing it again
2:30 PM - ‏: Perhaps the problem with spiral knights is that its all the same.
2:30 PM - Zeddy: the only thing left doing in SK, at a certain point, is grinding for more stuff
2:31 PM - Zeddy: some people like a game so much they'll go through it again with self-imposed challenges
2:31 PM - Zeddy: such as shardbombing Vana
2:31 PM - ‏: Beat level, earn crowns, craft gear, beat level, earn crowns craft gear.
2:31 PM - Zeddy: but beyond that
2:31 PM - Zeddy: most people will just do what a game presents them with doing and then move on
2:31 PM - ‏: Maybe if the game had a larger variety of things to do in it?
2:31 PM - Zeddy: so if people stopped grinding they'd just play a different game
2:31 PM - Zeddy: unless you give them more content to beat in half an hour and then start grinding
2:32 PM - Zeddy: that's a nice enough short term solution
2:32 PM - Zeddy: it'll prolong the time a player needs to spend before they get to the point where everything left to do is grinding
2:33 PM - ‏: I guess it would really come down to the function of Spiral Knights for people.
2:33 PM - ‏: Like, what it does for them.
2:34 PM - ‏: Because I really don't like that its just a game about farming right now.
2:34 PM - ‏: For many people, at least.
2:34 PM - Zeddy: there is really only one way to give a game a long-term life in a manner that is not making them grind for things
2:35 PM - Zeddy: and it's been implemented already but you don't care for it
2:35 PM - ‏: What would it be?
2:35 PM - Zeddy: competitive modes
2:35 PM - ‏: True.
2:35 PM - ‏: But I'd like to point something out with that.
2:35 PM - ‏: I used to play TF2.
2:35 PM - ‏: And I used to play it all the time, but I wasn't too good at it.
2:35 PM - ‏: I suck at PvP, and you know that.
2:36 PM - ‏: But I played it because it was fun to go there, and practice, and hang out with people wasting time.
2:36 PM - ‏: So what if spiral knights was like that?
2:36 PM - ‏: I mean, it kind of is to some extent.
2:37 PM - ‏: But it'd be nice if they could facilitate that more somehow?

[Discussion on TF2 community]

2:42 PM - Zeddy: what if, when an arcade gate spawned, it spawned with some kind of material in it in a limited quantity
2:42 PM - Zeddy: like
2:42 PM - Zeddy: 10 per floor per gate
2:42 PM - Zeddy: and you use that mat for some specific purpose
2:43 PM - Zeddy: and whenever you enter a floot, there's a random chance the gate has the mat somewhere in a box
2:43 PM - Zeddy: I feel like some jerk guild would just snatch it all up after two hours
2:44 PM - ‏: That would be cool, but it'd be kind of like the thing that the devs did for xmas
2:44 PM - Zeddy: I liked the thing the devs did for xmas
2:44 PM - Zeddy: they should do more things like that
2:44 PM - ‏: The running back and forth was cool, and refreshing, but there were still lots of people that didn't like it.
2:44 PM - ‏: And in the end, it was grinding too.
2:44 PM - ‏: Maybe this is what they're doing with the kat events?
2:45 PM - ‏: Lets say there were 12 of the kat event, each with a different goal/objective.
2:45 PM - ‏: And that it cycled each month.
2:45 PM - ‏: With things like the xmas running, and the black kat hunting.
2:45 PM - ‏: Maybe they are going for this?

[Momentary pause]

2:48 PM - ‏: I also had the thought of achievement hunting.
2:48 PM - ‏: Some of the most fun I've had was with dauntless devling.
2:49 PM - ‏: And trying to earn harder achievements was fun too.
2:49 PM - ‏: Not the "collect 800 minerals and eat them" type stuff, but the "beat the arcade without taking damage".
2:49 PM - ‏: And the shadow lairs.
2:49 PM - ‏: Those are fun because of how hard it is to get to them, and because of how rare the occasion is.
2:49 PM - Zeddy: yeah
2:50 PM - Zeddy: maybe we should be doing doctorspacebar's achievements
2:50 PM - ‏: Yea XD

Guild halls

2:52 PM - ‏: You know, I never really talked much about the guild hall update.
2:52 PM - ‏: Like, I liked it for the most part, because it was a crown sink.
2:52 PM - ‏: And that means more players etc. its a good thing hooray, but I really htink it failed to deliver.
2:53 PM - ‏: Like, if you look at what people wanted from guilds.
2:53 PM - ‏: They wanted a guild training hall so that they could move stuff around and build their own area to hang out in.
2:53 PM - ‏: Because thats what they did in the advanced training hall.
2:53 PM - ‏: That portion of their request was basically more of a "level editor"
2:53 PM - ‏: What about player levels?
2:54 PM - ‏: And other things with the guild hall.
2:54 PM - ‏: Another big request for guild halls was an arcade gate for your guild.
2:54 PM - ‏: Where you could put in minerals and get a set of levels out of it.
2:55 PM - ‏: The reason for the guilds wasn't furniture... The furniture was really just the smallest part of it. The reason was for guild functionality.
2:55 PM - ‏: And they gave that to some extent, with the whole "buy the bazzaar for millions of crowns" business.
2:55 PM - ‏: But a lot of guilds don't do that, just because they don't want to pay for it.
2:56 PM - ‏: Like, you can't expect T2 players to buy into that, and as I said to someone- T2 player need guilds; guilds need T3 players
2:56 PM - ‏: Hm?
2:57 PM - Zeddy: that is a good point
2:57 PM - Zeddy: I also think, just talking about aesthetics, that guilds are too limited
2:57 PM - Zeddy: sure, you can put furniture all over the place
2:57 PM - Zeddy: but every guild hall still looks the same
2:58 PM - ‏: ...and you can hang out with Njthug in his guild hall far more easily than you can fund hanging out alone.
2:58 PM - Zeddy: Warframe has guild halls and they have the opposite problem
2:59 PM - ‏: Lol, really? How does that work?
2:59 PM - Zeddy: you start with a hall that has two doors going out of it
2:59 PM - Zeddy: to build more, an officer goes over to a door and decides what room the door could lead to
3:00 PM - Zeddy: you can choose between a bunch of functional rooms and lots of corridors with varying amounts of doors leading out of them
3:00 PM - Zeddy: including elevators, those are cool
3:00 PM - Zeddy: and then members run up to the door and deposit materials if they'd like to see the room built
3:00 PM - ‏: XD, I know right? Tell me I'm not weird for hanging out in the elevators at hotels?
3:00 PM - Zeddy: anyways, all the room are prefabricadet
3:00 PM - Zeddy: awesome
3:00 PM - Zeddy: there's no furniture
3:01 PM - Zeddy: so you can make massive, awesome mazes or whatever
3:01 PM - Zeddy: but all the rooms look the same
3:01 PM - Zeddy: still, I prefer it
3:01 PM - Zeddy: there's depth to the building, as well
3:01 PM - Zeddy: a guild hall starts with 100 capacity and 5 energy
3:01 PM - Zeddy: any room you build costs a certain amount of capacity and energy
3:01 PM - Zeddy: to get energy you need to build a generator room
3:01 PM - Zeddy: and capacity is increased by great halls and such
3:02 PM - Zeddy: but they're expensive as heck, which is why you start with more than you need to get every utility room available
3:02 PM - Zeddy: utility is nice, too
3:02 PM - Zeddy: there are three research labs where guild members donate stuff to get weapons researched
3:02 PM - Zeddy: when the weapons are researched you can buy the recipe for it at the lab
3:03 PM - ‏: So its kind of like making players pay for the hall of heroes?
3:03 PM - ‏: In guilds
3:04 PM - Zeddy: yeah, but the weapons reserached can't be found elsewhere
3:04 PM - ‏: Which was actually another guild hall suggestion that I used to see a lot- a recipe book that you could store your recipes in for the guild... I guess that became the guild storage.
3:04 PM - ‏: They can't?
3:04 PM - Zeddy: a whole bunch of weapons got introduced with the guild hall update
3:04 PM - ‏: Thats interesting.
3:04 PM - Zeddy: yeah
3:04 PM - Zeddy: unique stuff, too
3:04 PM - ‏: Certainly incentivizing.
3:04 PM - Zeddy: grenade launchers and flamethrowers and bioorganic poison stuff
3:04 PM - Zeddy: like nothing you could ever get before
3:04 PM - Zeddy: enemy weapons, basically
3:04 PM - Zeddy: enemies had these weapons but you couldn't get them
3:05 PM - Zeddy: SK could do this
3:05 PM - ‏: Yeah
3:05 PM - Zeddy: I'd research the heck out of gremlin demo bombs
3:05 PM - ‏: It definitely has Maulos's thing and omg THE GREMLIN SAWBLADES!
3:05 PM - Zeddy: YEAH THOSE
3:05 PM - Zeddy: ghostmane recon shield
3:06 PM - Zeddy: phantom faust
3:06 PM - Zeddy: shoots three little bullets instead of one sword
3:06 PM - Zeddy: that are weaker or something
3:06 PM - ‏: Eh
3:06 PM - Zeddy: almirian crusaders lance
3:06 PM - ‏: I'd be disapointed at the phantom faust, that was a gran faust and it should still be a gran faust.
3:06 PM - ‏: Not a purple cutter
3:06 PM - Zeddy: yeah

Watch out Arsenal Podcast, once we hook this up to Microsoft Sam.... XD

Actually, its pretty much a moot point- we'll be doing entirely different content, and the point of this is really to generate discussions, hence this not being in the treasure vault, where people go to view art/read stuff and critique others' creativity rather than discuss spiral knights.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:26

Krakob

That was a good read.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 17:22

Blue-Elephant

Very good read indeed~!

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 19:22

Coelydragon

Quite a good read, quite a good read

Grinding

Yeah total agreement that once you hit the 3* HoH the game turns into a grinding game. Your solutions are slightly new, but adding scores for the gates wouldn't really achieve much. I mean you already have prestige that builds up from doing multiple missions and you know how that's working out. However, I have a feeling that OOO isn't even planning to fix the grinding because that's the choke point where people break and start spending real money. About your event idea: it seriously sounds great and fun but people want things worth wanting more than anything else. That's why there's grinding. That's why people do FSC. And face it. Dungeon games are grinding-based. The only reason they wouldn't be is if the game continually increases in difficulty. Once a player reaches the highest level they can, they go back either to help others or to grind. The key isn't to stop the grinding. It's to make grinding fun. Diversify the amount of levels with high crown output.

Also, the mat idea about having certain mats in a gate sounds great, and I'd even suggest doing that with tokens instead. I'll refer to them as "Basil Seeds" since I can't think of anything else. These Basil Seeds will give access to Basil-sold recipes but will be very expensive, maybe a couple hundred tokens per recipe. And, since it's a rare arcade-exclusive token people will get these if their luck has run out at Basil (for people like me who have never seen a Basil-exclusive recipe in their entire life).

Another thing is that since this game is full of grinding, it's possible to take a person's mind away from the tediousness of grinding. Make the game more than just fun. Make it engaging. For example, Candlestick is intense. Compounds are intriguing. GitM is creepy (I know, those don't apply to everyone but when you're doing GitM and zombies keep appearing out of nowhere, it's pretty crazy.)

Guild Halls

The researching thing sounds great and all, but taking monsters' weapons has already been discarded as the mechanics would be all weird. Like that retrode sneezing thing. And flamethrowers just won't work; we have something close to that already and that's the Volcanic Pepperbox.

But we were talking about guild halls, eh? So the reasons I join guilds: have more people to talk to and invite and such on and so forth, for the name (Go Dragon Knights!), for the mist well (which I never got to try), and for a GTH. I like how the lag is lower in GHs compared to Havens so the alchemy rooms and such on and so forth are nice, but not necessary. What would be interesting would be to have more inter-guildie expansions. For example, the target practice thing in the GTH is more fun trying to race for the most shots, but it's just about the only inter-guildie expansion. I'd like to see things where guild members interact with each other. Like that gate idea would be great. Or there could be a party pad where 4 guildies are required, then random monsters spawn in a small room, progressively harder, and after a certain amount of waves the guild could get a token and continue fighting. No revs for difficulty, but it would definitely be fun. It would be inter-guildie. It would be grinding. It would be engaging (sorry. I like that word.)

And dude, a maze? That'd be awesome.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 19:30

Fabiandor

TF2

@Fehzor, you play/played TF2? That game is the best game ever. :P

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 20:19

Fehzor

@Fabio
Yeah, TF2 was pretty good. Ironically, I came here because Spiral Knights had no excess of cosmetic type items, and was clean+easy to play!

@Coely
The researching thing sounds great and all, but taking monsters' weapons has already been discarded as the mechanics would be all weird

Naw, the weapons and models from many of the monsters fit nicely into the weapons that the knights have. How do I know this?

Mecha knights use Fang of Vog charge attacks, as well as wield hot/searing edge type weapons
Phantoms used to wield gran faust
Most gremlin weapons double as knight weapons, like thwack hammer and wrench wand
Retrode beams = combuster/glacius/voltedge charges

I'd be willing to put money on the possibility that the gremlin saw blade weapon's model could fit as a knight weapon. And I don't gamble.

I'd really like to know how flamethrowers won't work though, after all, anything is possible when you will it into existence via technology.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 20:48

Klipik-Forum

Everyone said something about reading.

Grinding: I agree with Coely on this one. The way to make grinding feel less like grinding is to make so many things worth the same amount of payout that not everyone floods the same one (FSC). If, say, all the levels in stratum 6 paid somewhere between the average FSC level and the average non-FSC level, you could just venture down into the arcade and have a new experience each time, without feeling like you could be spending your mist better. Of course, you would have to do something about the missions to make them non-farmable. Maybe a one-a-day thing like prestige missions?

GHs: I feel like all that was said in this section was "they should have added all of the things we suggested before, not just the cosmetic and convenience ones." Except for the research part - but that might be what the lab's for? Hopefully maybe? :o?

One thing though, about that phantom's Faust that shoots three bullets instead of one big sword... That is what's known as a "Shadow Divine Avenger". ;)

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 21:28

Fehzor

I really want you guys to look at the tier 2 bosses, and how much they pay out... the difference is literally around 200 crowns, at best. And which one is farmed more often?

The one that pays out more in raw crowns, the jelly king. So if you're going to insist that the arcade should pay out more do you think that it should pay out the same as Firestorm Citadel? And the tokens are another question. Arenas can't pay out the same as clockwork tunnels... using tokens to seperate the pay of different areas is great, but I already have all of the items from the snarbolax. And guess what? I don't like to go back and fight it! Its dull! But FSC? Now there is something that I fight from time to time. All that heat is delicious.

Which is why I had the thought that I did have. What if we had 24 of the kat hat event, each a month long, each with a different challenge (think last xmas- with the sprite moving), with 2 going at any one time, each changing the arcade in a new way with a new set of unique items that could be found rarely?

Its just an idea. And yeah, I'd rather see the arcade buffed than left as is, certainly. Its one of my favorite areas in the game, though it could use further stratification as well- there are truly 5 tiers in spiral knights now- T1, S3, S4, S5 and S6.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 21:47

Klipik-Forum

I always thought JK was farmed more because it required less thinking and puzzling, and more bashing enemies in the face with nightblades.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 15:05

Coelydragon

@Klipik
Personally, I see the difference between RJP and ICMF as battling waves vs. battling in a war zone. Like RJP involves fighting several mobs on even ground, where ICMF involves fighting less mobs and more traveling around while avoiding rockets, shock traps, etc. Effectively more PvE versus PvT(errain). Which is why I prefer RJP.

@Fehzor
I thought of the same idea in my Rebalancing Spiral Knights thread (node/80255) but with a different aspect. Let me throw out a new term (or rather old term with new meaning): Senior Privileges (for lack of a better name). This refers to the fact that as a player progresses, he or she should earn access to more areas based on their seniority in the game. Example: A Spiral Knight starts out only being allowed to do normal missions. At a certain rank, which I never remember, he or she gains access to Prestige missions. Later on, he or she can do Shadow Lairs. Now, the thing is that these are the only senior privileges that can be obtained. I'm not counting Tiers as they aren't much different besides power. What my other thread suggested was a Vanguard-exclusive challenge that would be rotated occasionally. This would give Vanguards the opportunity to do a tough challenge, teaming up with only those who have also obtained the high ranking. What I would like is more senior privileges. These should be placed specifically around grinding zones such as the 3,4, and 5* HoH's. Players should be given a new challenge or mission that rotates every few weeks or so, that provides grind-worth payout, so there is a variety in challenge for them to face instead of grinding RJP/ICMF/FSC all the time. Because after about the 25th RJP grind, I discovered my newfound skill of being able to solo the top right room of the second level in RJP. It just lost its challenge. Danger Missions are great and all, good payout and challenge, but they don't feel special. Everyone gets them. And believe me, gaining access to Prestige Missions does make you feel a little more special than those stuck without them. They're new, they're challenging, they have decent payout. For a while. And when the magic is gone, we need more. We need more senior privileges. And that, Fehzor, is where your events come in. Your events can be implemented right at the 4* HoH or so and people would farm more than just RJP and have fun.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 15:36

#10

Mzculet

We are now entering modern

We are now entering modern age!

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 18:59

#11

Fehzor

I'm not entirely certain as to why we are entering the modern age, but I'll take your word on it.

@Coely

If I were to implement this, I'd probably set each event's starting time differently, with 1/4 going towards new players (early T2, would have T1 equivolant missions, etc.), 1/4 being aimed at established T2 players, 1/4 being aimed at new T3 players and the last 1/4 being aimed at established T3 players. Such a rotation would mean that you'd always be switching between having one T2 and one T3 specialty available.

The problem with only catering to "vanguards" or knights of the highest order, is that there are so few of them, and that most people leave before they get to such a 'high level'.... and I personally like to go in parties with Tier 2 knights. Its kind of nice to see what newer players think of the game and how they play, especially now that dash n bash are out.

@Klipik

Another thought is that players farmed the arcade long before the mission system came about; all levels not titled "arena", "royal jelly palace" or "firestorm citadel" were avoided.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 18:22

#12

Coelydragon

@Fehzor

I'm not too sure why we're entering the modern age either.

I see what you're saying. It makes sense too. I agree. Problem is that OOO's not going to do anything about this because they have a tendency to ignore long threads with good ideas. Just ask Luiguru what I'm talking about.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 19:49

#13

Fehzor

I don't know that it'd be the best decision for OOO anyway :P
But it is an interesting idea to consider.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 19:59

#14

Little-Juances

Zeddy+Fehzor Fehzor+Zeddy

Feddy or Zehzor?

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 20:13

#15

Drdrj

Very interesting, you should make a podcast. :D

I was really disappointed with the guild hall update. The furniture is ok, but what I really wanted was a guild email and a guild announcements board. Another thing that I dislike about the GH update is the lack of a space in the private trainning hall for lockdown practice and the fact that you need the 4th floor and it costs almost 1 million crowns. Small guilds can't have nice things. :<

I agree with Zeddy, Warframe is a fun game and they have many good ideas. I will list a few things that I enjoy.

- Alert missions: Alerts are temporary missions that appear randomly next to any other mission that players have previously unlocked, they give rewards, usually in the shape of more credits than usual, but sometimes they award special blueprints (recipes) that the players can't obtain anywhere else. They are a good reason to replay some of the first levels of the game. Alert missions in the arcade would be really nice.

- Events: Sorry OOO, but endless grinding to get a rare drop from a rare monster is not fun, Kataclysmic Confrontation was a frustrating event after a while. Warframe had an event where the community had to kill 1 million of the new enemy they were introducing in the game. In 2 days the community killed 2.3 million enemies and all players that participate in the event received an exclusive blueprint (recipe). The top 100 players received some nice rewards: mods for weapons (maybe variant tickets).

- Stalkers: My favorite thing from warframe. A Stalker is an ominous, vengeful figure that infrequently appears during missions, encountered with a level that ranges anywhere between 30 to 70, that will target and attack a single player. They have a high damage output which can kill an inexperienced player with a few melee attacks. They can also give trouble to an experienced group.
Imagine playing pve when suddenly a rogue knight or a ghostmane stalker with a lot a health start attacking you saying he is going to revenge a boss you killed.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 21:18

#16

Coelydragon

This subject line is about reading (@Klipik)

@Little-Juances
Fehzzy. Definitely Fehzzy.

@Drdrj
Those actually sound like legitimate ideas. Except the last one. That'd bring a lot of rage even though I'd personally like it.

@Fehzzy...err...Fehzor and Zeddy
Hey guys, ever considering just dropping the whole forum thing? It's not like we're getting OOO's attention anyways. We've done our work here already. Zeddy, sure go ahead with the awesome data stuff, but Fehzor, you and I are just writing essays on how to fix stuff and we're not being recognized. If you decide to drop from the forums, I'll drop from it with you. I've enjoyed getting the community's attention and getting them to talk and get actual discussion, but we seriously need OOO's attention too and we're not getting it. I'll still be in-game at any rate.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 21:32

#17

Fehzor

I don't write things so that they can read it. I'm not like some kind of wanna be intern that helps Nick design the game, I write things because I want to write things.

And I want to write things because I have a low self esteem and am a massive pseudo-intellectual, and it makes me feel superior to people when I type things and people somehow manage to respect what I write. I also enjoy being ignored by the developers, as this makes me feel awful and I like that. And I like to talk about Spiral Knights and whatever ideas I have, even if they are terrible ideas at heart.

There really isn't much else out there for me, no?

(And don't you dare try to sympathize with me, I really hate it when people try to tell me I'm worth something)

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 21:50

#18

Drdrj

@Coelydragon

WHAT? Stalkers are the best part, they are fun and challenging.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 21:56

#19

Arelic

<<< The Novice.

I suppose prior long term MMO experience would suggest insight into these kinds of things. While I might have given suggestions (not to the forum of course but in idle conversation), they were never informed suggestions. So not a bad start, I would say.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 22:09

#20

Fehzor

Oh, and Drdrj brings up wonderful points- that events could be a bit more lenient/fair to players rather than forcing them to gamble for no reason to get what they desire. I'm not entirely sure how valid it is to say that that is entirely a good thing, but I do know how it felt playing through the kataclysm event, watching people go down and pull out a certain novel on their first try while Zeddy, and to a lesser extent myself, managed to find nothing but a couple thousand coins.... to buy what? 20 kat materials? Please.

The stalkers are also a cool idea, as long as they only appeared occasionally and on certain levels.. It would feel incredibly unfortunate to find one on an arena as the 12 grievers appeared. Though the challenge sounds nice lol.

As for alert missions, I kind of think just adding in more danger rooms, and giving those new danger rooms better, more tangible rewards (even if it was just say, a single piece of random costume armor at a 10% chance) would be nice.

Just making the arcade more fun and worthwhile in the first place.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 04:40

#21

Zeddy

I liked the stalkers so much I made a suggestion thread for them.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 09:19

#22

Coelydragon

@Fehzor
Okay, I get it. I'm with you then.

@Zeddy
The reason I say that people won't enjoy stalkers is because I tried to suggest rare attacks and someone said that they'd feel cheated if one popped up and it'd discourage them from arcading. Stalkers sound like something that I would enjoy, but I don't know how the majority of players would feel about a random monster appearing with the sole purpose of killing them.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:13

#23

Gravelord-Caste

Take off your mask. Then show us your Smile.

Nice read. Sadly, as much as I'd like to expand on that, there's nothing else I want to say about it.

/r Coelydragon: Stalkers sound like something that I would enjoy, but I don't know how the majority of players would feel about a random monster appearing with the sole purpose of killing them.

Well, other monsters appear with the sole purpose of killing players. If the Stalker appeared invisibly in waves or - better yet - in the Deconstruction Zones, or even both (within reason) then players may be more accepting than having them appear at any time, in any place.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:02

#24

Fehzor

This might be the last one of these I make, I'd rather not contribute to the forums, as that is a bannable offense due to the way that language is dealt with.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 01:18

#25

Blue-Flood

Just read the first part

Just read the first part about grinding and the TF2 discussion, just wanted to throw in a suggestion.

I did play this game called Trickster a long while ago... It's a pretty simple game.

One of the best things they had in that game was like, a random boss spawn IN TOWN!

You'd be sitting there and suddenly get this message:

Hyperion broadcasts " Lord vanaduke, the snarb beast, and JK have all escaped from the shadow lair clockworks will be invading Haven 12in 10 minutes!! We need 50 brave knights to stop them!!!!"

so the first 50 to rush to Haven 12 would get to try to take on all 3 monsters at once.

I know i know.. imagine the lag etc... but hell that would be fun!

Something like that. Random unique instances are really freaken awesome.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 21:31

#26

Fehzor

What do you guys think episode 2 should be about?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 21:48

#27

Coelydragon

That's a good question. After much consideration of old, often-used ideas such as balancing weaponry and level design, I've decided that I need something new to chew on. My list consisted of: weapon art/design, music, statuses (stati?), shields and shield techniques, and blast network. Statuses (stati?) for sure need something new spoken about them. They're underrated; the weapons that inflict them get all the attention. I'd say that the other thing worth talking about (if you're doing two per show) would be blast network or shields and shield techniques. Blast network is something I doubt either of you play often though, and shield techniques are rather well-known so I'll opt for shield techniques because there are some good things to say about bash, shield canceling, shield bumping, etc. that have yet to be said.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 15:28

#28

Klipik-Forum

dragging off topic really quickly

You guys (mostly Zeddy) keep talking about how great Warframe is. Sure it's great, but...

It has one big problem.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 16:13

#29

Our-Little-Ajo

Umm

Too lazy to read.

BUT....

This is a great idea to make a podcast.

you can create interesting topics, conversation about different matter inside SK, including some "VS" about differents subjects.

Let me know if you want to talk about spanish community or Laggy LD, but "TALK", not steam conversations.

Search

Zeddy+Fehzor's talk show, Episode 1 (On grinding and guild halls)