Spiral Knights - How to properly re balance the "Hall of Heros" and Basil with out completely breaking either.

How to properly re balance the "Hall of Heros" and Basil with out completely breaking either.

35 replies [Last post]

Thu, 06/20/2013 - 16:33

Waffleconecake

As several of you may know the arcade has only two advantages over just spamming missions, boss recipes and lacking of repetition. Currently the Hall of Heros provides all most every recipe in the game at same selling price as Basil making the arcade even less popular. Now we all know we could fix missions to not pay as well but I'm not starting another thread on that, if you are looking for one of those go search for one.

I purpose we do one of the fallowing to "nerf" hall of heros:
1) Remove all 5 star recipes so end game players will have a reason to use arcade.
2) Remove half of the recipes from each armor set from HoH.
3) Remove some of the weapon line recipes but not all. Like take out the WHB and the BAB but not the Iorn tech and Venom striker (as an example).
4) Raise the price of all HoH recipes by 10%-15% and make them bound once you buy them.
5) Remove 3/4s of all recipes in HoH NOT sold by Jorin but have them circulate on a weekly bases were another random set of recipes will be back in.As an example, week one can have a Wolver coat but during Week two it has a Blaster. Number 4 should also be implemented for this one.
6) Have an event were the gremlins attack and Destroy ONLY the HoH so it gets removed from the game but we get a cool event/quest to stop it from happening else were in Haven.

Feel free to vote for the one(s) you like.
~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~
Voting counted here V V V V V
1)2
2)0
3)2
4)4
5)4
6)3

Thu, 06/20/2013 - 17:02

Little-Juances

Considering Arcade fees and the radomness of Basil, #4 fails.

To keep it simple I'd go with #1.

Thu, 06/20/2013 - 17:25

Pipipipipi

probally 3

you know, I think number 6 is just a fail at rebalancing, you should remove that one

you know there are some unique recipes for Basil only, like avenger

Thu, 06/20/2013 - 18:01

Waffleconecake

responses.

@Little-Juances the point of #4 is so there is a "arcade fee" on those recipes seeing how you don't even need to leave haven to get them.

@Pipipipipi The point for number 6 is so that there is a reason to why it gets removed if they were going to remove it.

Thu, 06/20/2013 - 18:57

Sweet-Hope

i vote 4 as the most viable way to nerf Hall of Heroes.

Thu, 06/20/2013 - 21:40

Batabii

HoH recipes are ALREADY bound. And the only people the HoH actually HURTS are the people who do nothing but hoard recipes for profit.

Of all those "solutions" I'd say 5, though it will likely encourage more people to use noob sets (i.e. azure guardian, aegis, etc) out of laziness.

Thu, 06/20/2013 - 22:58

Xtweeterx

I've been searching for a

I've been searching for a Crest of Almire recipe for 2 weeks, doing nothing but T3 recipe runs and that cheapskate Basil never had it. Though, I am up for originality so I say #6

Thu, 06/20/2013 - 23:39

Hexzyle

@Batabii

HoH recipes are ALREADY bound. And the only people the HoH actually HURTS are the people who do nothing but hoard recipes for profit.

HA! It doesn't hurt us, it increases our profits! The more who buy their recipes from HoH, avoiding floor 13 and 23 Basil, the more the people who actually do Basil runs can charge for recipes that appear only in the arcade. I'm rolling in money and laughing at people who have to pay 13k+ for my Twisted recipes. That's a 225% profit.

I like number 5, making the Hall of Heroes like Basil.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 06:56

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

I read couple Thread here and there and I logged only to reply to this Thread.

It would bring lots of T3 player in Arcade runs and would bring newcomer to *see* Shadow Lair gates for the first time. + there would be end-game recipe market back ^ ^

And people might do more Arcade Vana since it's right after basil on depth 23

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 07:40

Waffleconecake

clairty

Just to clarify you guys can vote for more then one, like you could say " I like number 6 but if that is not possible I wold go with 2" and that would count for both 6 and 2.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 08:45

#10

Curious-Mewkat

It's just so sad to see the economy break down like this after the missions system was implemented. To see it work again requires the complete rebalance of all weapons and armor and the removal of hoh.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 08:53

#11

Waffleconecake

yah ;sigh;

I'm going to put you down as a 6 curious. (it involves the HoH being blown up by gremlins and some silly event happening or something.)

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 09:25

#12

Bleyken

4/6

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 09:52

#13

Skyguarder

1) Remove all 5 star recipes so end game players will have a reason to use arcade.

So how will 4* players pass the HoH then? Won't there be a 5* version of each knight?

2) Remove half of the recipes from each armor set from HoH.

I'll pass on that on.

3) Remove some of the weapon line recipes but not all. Like take out the WHB and the BAB but not the Iorn tech and Venom striker (as an example).

I think Jorin sells brandishes, right? I can't confirm that. But brandishes shouldn't be sold in the HoH.

4) Make the price of all HoH recipes by 10%-15% and make them bound once you buy them.

Looks very expensive. Also, recipes are BOUND once you have brought them from the Hall of Heroes

5) Remove 3/4s of all recipes in HoH NOT sold by Jorin but have them circulate on a weekly bases were another random set of recipes will be back in.As an example, week one can have a Wolver coat but during Week two it has a Blaster. Number 4 should also be implemented for this one.

Yikes, that looks like the Hall of heroes would be.... empty-ish.

6) Have an event were the gremlins attack and Destroy ONLY the HoH so it gets removed from the game but we get a cool event/quest to stop it from happening else were in Haven.

There needs to be a story for it. Also, the Hall of heroes was remodeled a few months ago. Would it be redesigned again or would it be like HoH today?

Overall, I vote for #3

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 10:03

#14

Waffleconecake

@Skyguarder

1) All knights will get the 5 star cobalt armor recipes as well as 5 star weapon recipes for free from missions. I'm not sure what you mean by with the second question, do you mean " Will there be a version of each Vendor knight for 5 star players?" if that is the question yes, but they won't be selling 5 star recipes. Jorin will be an exception to this rule as he sells recipes made by the spiral order.

3)Actually it would make seance for Jorin to still be selling all of his recipes as he only sells Spiral order issue recipes, in other words he only sells recipes that were created for knights by the spiral order.

4) That's the point, its to add a "finder's fee" to these items so players feel more implied to hunt them down for cheaper prices. I only added the "and made bound once you buy them" part because I was not sure if they were in the first place.

5)Again, it's to make knights want to either go buy from AH or go look for them in the Arcade. They can still get any of the current recipes from the HoH but they will have to wait for it to be in circulation.

6) The story could be "The gremlins figured that if we can get almost any weapon recipe to kill them with and not even have to leave Haven it would be a good idea to blow up that building." The thing would be a giant crater with some fire in it. Maybe even have a few burning recipes still inside during the first few days of this change. We could set up a memorial on it for Lorin (or any vendor who does not get out)if he dies trying to defend it after words once we fill in the hole.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 10:28

#15

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

I vote for #5 but only if the recipes rotate on a two-day basis.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 10:51

#16

Waffleconecake

I don't want it any faster

I don't want it any faster then 4 days. Won't count your vote seeing how it isn't really agreeing with it.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 10:57

#17

The-Mighty-Potato

I vote for...4

But they're already bound when you buy them ;)

Sat, 06/22/2013 - 15:18

#18

Thegreatpiggy

Erm.....

1) No, 5 star recipe inflation will go up even more. -1
2)Meh~
3)Meh~?
4)Ya, but they are already bound. Still good though. +1
5)Sure, like the vendors in the Bazaar. +1
6)Wat.

Overall, I like No. 5

Sat, 06/22/2013 - 18:42

#19

Batabii

remove HoH and you might as well remove missions entirely :(

Sat, 06/22/2013 - 19:22

#20

Waffleconecake

@Batabii

We shouldn't remove missions ENTIRELY, just disable loot pick up for people who have compleated that mission but also allow them to do them with out spending mist on the elevator would be smart.

Sat, 06/22/2013 - 21:12

#21

Batabii

You're missing my point. I was saying that removing HoH would ruin the game.

Sat, 06/22/2013 - 21:24

#22

Agenta

NONE

Dont do this at all!!! I HATE BASIL RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sat, 06/22/2013 - 22:17

#23

Fehzor

Could you explain your position a bit more, Larry?

We know that removing the Hall of Heroes entirely won't kill or hurt the game so much, as it was put into the game quite a while after development ended.

We can also just as easily say that taking the hall of heroes out of the game would weaken the recipe market, but make it more stable. Right now, players don't value recipes very much (meaning that they don't buy up every polaris recipe on sight like I do), and furthermore, they farm bosses instead, which provides more crowns for players like me to sell recipes to, while decreasing the number of recipes for things like polaris in existence.

Considering making basil give the recipes out cheaper would perhaps be our best option, as that would help get players to look for things in the arcade, as well as produce a market for recipes like combuster that are sold regularly by the hero of halls.

Sat, 06/22/2013 - 22:38

#24

Waffleconecake

First off @Batabii Taking out

First off
@Batabii
Taking out missions and HoH would make the game less rigged, and that was what I liked about it, the large ever changing world ready to be explored and rewards for the curious and snoopy. But now its a normal mmo were you grind (Vanduke. KOA) for money to get fancy pretty dresses for your little prince or princess instead of a cool get up for your rough and tumble adventurer to show off in town when he is not busy murdering everything in a genocidal manor.
The mission system is flawed and killed this feeling of adventure by just putting on rails to "explore" the "park" of the world. Either way they need to balance at some point.
@Agenta
I have nothing other to say then you disappoint me.

@Fehzor
I'm going to guess I'm "Larry" here so if not then what ever.
I would rather have HoH get raised prices so people could sell recipes of any type and still be able to make some profit off of them. This way people don't feel like they got jiped when they buy a recipe from basil that they think would sell before realizing that it is available in the HoH. This would border the recipe market.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:39

#25

Klipik-Forum

Batabii = Larry, Waffle. :P

I vote for 5, with the addition of make Basil's list a bit longer.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:01

#26

Waffleconecake

@Klipik-"butt"

>:O then why u no say batabii?

Making Basil's list longer is not really needed, I mean if the HoH didn't sell recipes then people could make some profit off EVERY basil, not just the ones with boss recipes.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:09

#27

Blake-Sky-Blade

@Waffle

And what, exactly, would be bad about that?
Also, I'd say either 3 or 4.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 18:55

#28

Waffleconecake

@Blake-Sky-Blade

I don't think it is a bad thing, just not necessary to make the list longer.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 21:43

#29

Batabii

Batabii=Batabii

No I'm not, Klipik.

Also, the mission system is not a bad thing, they just need to nerf firestorm citadel and maybe give more perks to arcade runs.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 22:09

#30

Waffleconecake

I just think the number of

I just think the number of missions should be shortened and should function purely as a tutorial and not "track" for our elevator to take us on. Like if instead of all the missions from newbie to end game we simply had a newbie to understand the game but had the tutorial much more in depth. I think that would be for the best. Maybe even make "elevators" for these tutorial levels only require 5 mist so that way new players can get them done faster. After a player completes a mission it should un-lock a "Practice" mode were they are in solo and can not leave, have no cost for elevators and can rev with out cost, the only catch is that they can't gather any loot. No heat, crowns, or mats. Only hearts and consumables will drop.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 23:03

#31

Hogmos-Forum

@Waffle

I don't agree with you entirely.Instead of reducing missions,the arcade runs should be given more perks(more crows,materials etc.).
Overall I vote for 5.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 23:31

#32

Klipik-Forum

Ok fine. Batabii = Larry to Fehzor.

@Waffle: Missions

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 07:21

#33

Batabii

@waffle

Actually I wouldn't mind if they took out all the rank missions EXCEPT boss missions (including bosses like Arkus, and missions that are primarily arenas), tutorial missions (Let's Go Shopping), and donation missions (monstrous research, etc). In this case, tutorial missions includes the first missions to showcase certain enemy types (like the one that introduces you to slimes for the first time). So this would probably cut the number of rank missions in half.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 07:47

#34

Waffleconecake

@s, @s everywere

@Hogmos-Forum
I get were you are coming from, you want people to be able to make MORE off arcade then missions but have missions still work, I get that, but let us say you give a 1.5 multiplyer to all crowns picked up in tire 3 arcade, people would still be doing vanduke runs just hoping to it by guildmates or using the "join party" feature. What would this do? Make MORE crowns for the CE market and cause CE to go up in price, probably at a constant 7,500-8,200 price range.

If we increased the drop rate of materials then they would also go down in price (the more of something the less it is worth) so anyone who sells mats would get hurt allot from that.
"What if we reduced elevator costs for arcade?" You might say, people would do more vanduke runs with the same party hoping system and could do even more so the ce prices would again, go up. Any of these changes would only help people who grind bosses constantly, not people who play arcade for fun, not profit.
That is why I honestly think the best option would to be reduce the profit on the boss missions by having more levels per boss level (as in the level you do before the boss) so you won't be getting the constant 7,300 crowns that you normally do, some times you get 5,000, some times 6,600.

@ Klipik-Forum
Thanks mate.

@Batabii
I wasn't thinking about the prestige missions when I said all that, they should remain unchanged but I don't think boss levels should be grind able(not talking about prestige here) from missions, making them a one time thing is what I want. I think we should have the tutorial go up to snarbolax and use him as an example for how the basic boss set up is so players can get an idea for how bosses function instead of a clear image of them all.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 09:37

#35

Batabii

I know, and I agree. They need to put some system in place so that you can only do any given mission once, maybe twice per day.

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How to properly re balance the "Hall of Heros" and Basil with out completely breaking either.