We've all come across those people who measure their overall Lockdown skill based solely on Damage scores. While I personally think this is wrong because I use common sense, there are still people that insist damage alone is an accurate measure of how well one can do in Lockdown. When someone asks the question "how good are you?" the typical answer would be to give one's average damage while totally ignoring caps, defends, loadout descriptions, etc.
Let's keep it civil and discuss.
The player in a match with the highest damage was the one who displayed the most skill in that match at getting damage. The number tells very little on its own.
Damage = Better UV.
Thats practically all in this topic.
Damage is not reflect of the skill and only dumb would say it is.
If someone plays as sword recon? So what? Is noob because does not have damege bonus?
Aiming = Skill
Tactics = Skill
Dance = Skill
Know how = Skill
The rest is garbage.
i can go around AA GF spamming w/ ASI VH UVs w/ full skolver set w/ normal max, piercing max, shock max on both armor pieces as a striker and get like 40k dmg by pure SPAMMING, which takes no skill whatsoever cause LITERALLY everyone can spam their weapons w/ AA
Why do you want everyone to stop using Anti-Aliasing? It makes the graphics much better and cooler. You gonna be jelly of people that have good rigs, while you can't even play Jazz the Jack Rabbit.
Answer is no. If you're looking for discussion, you're asking the wrong question. Maybe, "does damage correlate to skill, and if so how much?" would be better.
You suck at LD, why you think your opinión worth something in this subject?
You should use your opinion .. Unmm.. Umm.. dunno.. Whatever noob ppl do on SK.. JK FSC or something...
The unknown guy is correct, that's the reality in this game.
Mods, we need a seperate forum for AT discussions. Oh wait, I found it.
Saying that damage is skill is like saying that running to another base in baseball is the only thing that takes skill.
It's because they're both skills that aren't the main focus of the activity.
Of course not. Damage only measures how much you swing your faust or hammer while spamming valiance shots which is not hard. Lets also not forget that there are many noobs in Random Lockdown who "skilled" players can easily farm for easy damage points. Hence why in GvG, damage is generally lower.
Sadly, Ive seen many people who can consistently do high damage but suck 1 v 1 against players who dont do high damage. Also if you watch those high damage players in spectator mode, it turns out all they do is double swing gran faust and spam valiance, which again is simple to do.Therefore Damage =/= Skill. End of story.
NO.
(P.S. how do I make big fonts?)
The real answer is no. LD is a game of getting caps not who can get the most damage and kill everybody with toothpicks. Today while playing LD i was constantly getting killed by this dude while i was capping.Soeverytime you die you can see what youre killer killed you with and their next movements for the next couple of seconds. As i was watching this guy kill me i saw that he literally did not give a single poop about caping. After he killed me he would just go back to his spawn and heal and not cap back what i was capping. Clearly showing that he wanted to do more damage than play the real objective of the game. Skill is not getting 20k damage and 1 cap. Skill is getting 7-15k damage with 5-10 caps and at least 1-5 defends. That is skill.
Define "skills" that your looking for.
I was gonna write out a reply to this thread but there's no point - nothing will actually get through the ingrained stereotypes and stubborness of the people here.
also caps don't mean crap. It takes no skill to stand on a point until it turns to your team's colour.
Caps are the main objective of the game. Caps are how you win a LD game. You can't just say caps don't mean crap.
The main thing you gotta do in Lockdown, as in the Clockworks, is dodging. Dodging attacks keeps you alive. The main point of the game can only be accomplished while alive. The dodging is a huge part of any skill anyone has. Whether you've got a sword, a gun, or a bomb, you have to know how to dodge; attacking comes second.
You also have to choose your loadout well and know when to use each weapon. It might be a Final Flourish and Polaris, it might be an Acheron and Nitronome, it might be the Cautery Sword if you can think of some advantage for it. Your class skills and Dashing must also be taken into account.
Tactics are good too; Strikers hit-and-running at the right times, or Recons knowing when to cloak at the right time, can lead an enemy push away from the point while someone else snatches it and starts laying down the mist bombs. Similarly, Guardians that block attacks and heal their team are very helpful.
The above tactics involved one big thing: teamwork. Working with your team will help your team immensely. Are you a Skolver Striker with a gun traveling with a Recon bomber? Eschew your swords and start firing away with the gun from inside the bomber's blast radius. But wait- suppose the bomber has a Vortex? Break out that GF or DA and tear them to shreds. But hold on just a minute, does the enemy team have two guys vulnerable to freezing? Work with him. Trick the freezable guys into getting Shiver-locked and keep them out of the battle for the entire match by tearing up any Skolver that tries to save them. Even if they're stuck for one minute thirty seconds, that's one minute thirty seconds of them NOT helping their team, far longer than it would be if you just ganked them with a Gran Faust. Or how about that huge team of enemies on point 2? Poke them and run away, and get them to chase you into an ambush, or just distract them all while your guys grab 1 and 3. Think teamwork and think strategy, you'll have a lot more luck.
...which is easier said than done in public Lockdown, but GvG could see stuff like this.
while caps are the objective of the game, they mean nothing skill-wise. They're just a measure of how many times your team lost a point because you weren't defending it and you reclaimed it.
Okay. Let me get this straight. Damage isn't skill? Then how come EVERYBODY can't hit 30k damage? is it because you're too skilled to get damage? Damage = hits on enemy players. meaning you have to HIT THE FREAKIN ENEMY to get the damage points. Hitting enemies = no skill?
Okay. lets analyse what "capping" is. It's standing on a enemy/neutral point... stand... stand there.... wait.... bam you have a cap! Now is capping skilled? standing there = MASSIVE MLG HOLYCRAP MOTHERFUDGE OF GOD HOLY SO MUCH SKILL!!!!!!11!!oneone!!1
The answer is:
NUMBERS DO NOT SHOW SKILL
why?
Damage: you can EASILY get very high damage when the other team is full of noobs, or if you have 1-2 leavers and so you have to make up for it. high damage doesn't show that you're skilled. more skilled than the people on the other team? maybe. but skill in general? no number can show that...
Caps: you can EASILY get alot of caps if nobody on the other team is guarding it. High caps =/= skill. it just means that you have high mobility and have a focus on capping most of the time. again, NUMBERS DONT SHOW SKILL.
"i can go around AA GF spamming w/ ASI VH UVs w/ full skolver set w/ normal max, piercing max, shock max on both armor pieces as a striker and get like 40k dmg by pure SPAMMING, which takes no skill whatsoever cause LITERALLY everyone can spam their weapons w/ AA"
oh great, another lame AT comment. let us begin. If you're using a gran faust and doubleswinging, AT does NOTHING beneficial to aid you. think about it.
when you swing your faust, each hit has a hit box of over 180 degrees. AT only does "micro-adjustments" to things that are within ~60 degrees. so if your enemy is within ~60 degrees, even WITHOUT AT, you would have hit them. if you want to talk about AT, at least choose a better weapon, like a brandish, sentenza, flourish (the combo), valiance, or maybe even VOLTAIC TEMPEST (cause AT makes it hit in 360 radius :OOOO :O :O :OOOOO)
Also, not literally everyone can spam their weapons with AA. sure they can spam it, but they wont hit 40k. even with 2 grand US worth of UV's on EACH piece of your weaponry and armor, if you're with a group of highly skilled people, you wont hit it. not ever. why? because they'll murder you, no matter what uv's you have.
Now lets back get to the first point. SURE you can hit 40k by spamming in RLD, but that's because the enemy team is DOWNRIGHT FREAKIN TERRIBLE. numbers do not show skill, since you can hit 40k against noobs, and you can't against pros.
End of discussion.
you're a noob, your argument is completly invalid.
I've seen some crazy movements from people spaming AT
Usually when "skilled" people like you are about to die, they all start spam the damn AT getting impossible hits from imposibles angles, that if you try do it without AT only with your keyboard/mouse, you can breakyourself a bone.
I do it sometimes, but I don't get hurt because I usually play with my "Boneless finger".. if you know what mean...
@feller
obviously we would "spam AT" to get "impossible hits" if it lets us WIN.
are you saying that to keep your pride, you're going to just lose and complain?
wait wait wait. lets back up here.
when you use AT, comboes are easier, however it misdirects some of your swings, mostly while fighting in groups
when you don't use AT, you have a more "free" movement and a more "free" attack range. however, comboes are alot more difficult to land (although I have done MANY non-at comboes)
That's why you should combine the two. Don't use AT, and toggle it on for a combo. Sure, people think you're noob, but it works.
My boneless finger is larger than everyone else's. Someday you guys will get to my level but until then, its all just a matter of practice and determination.
@Rustymacola:
I lol'd. xD
@Redblades:
I concur. Zeddy already mentioned that numbers in the results menu don't show enough of details and information to pinpoint the skilled people from not. People don't want to understand this, unfortunately...
IMO:
Striker: DMG is better skill, with capping as secondary
Recon: Capping is better skill, with some dmg as secondary
Guardian: i dunno. I don't actually play guardian.
Some people think that all of this craze for wanting damage emphasizes that Super Brawl should return.
Note: I'm not saying I agree. I'm just saying what some people think.
Graveyard this thread now, no productive discussion is happening.
I will repeat myself one last time.
Damage numbers do not directly correlate to skill, and damage cannot be used alone as a measurement of skill, because there are too many other factors to be considered.
Make a new thread with a better question.
For the last time, Damage is just a number and does NOT indicate how good you are, like most children believe. High damage simply means:
1. ASI UVs.
2. Constant energy reviving.
3. Constant Sealed Sword or Hammer swings.
4. Double heart pendants.
5. Full Skolver / Snarby set. Usually with high or max resist.
6. Farming for easy Damage points using noobs in Random LD.
To measure true skill, you actually need to WATCH someone in videos or spectator mode and SEE how they play. As you watch, you ask questions like:
1. Do they use AT?
2. What UVs they have on their gear?
3. How often do they swing Sealed Swords?
4. How often do they energy revive?
5. Do they use skillful movement and dodging instead of spam-and-runs?
6. Do they rely on Polaris?
7. Do they have good latency?
8. How do they play and compensate for latency issues?
9. What helm/armor is used?
10. What class they play as? (Remember, Striker gives the best damage out put with med dmg + speed boost)
11. Do they simply farm for easy Damage points by repeatedly killing noobs in RLD?
Those are the questions one should always consider when measuring skill. There are so many people who seem skilled at first glance just by high damage, but when we watch them closely while asking ourselves these questions while spectating, we end up disappointed and realize that the people who seem "pro" at first turns out to be noobs afterall. Moral of the story: Don't jump to conclusions and think someone is automatically "Pro" just because he or she can do high damage. True skill is measured by many factors, not just one.
Contri, I really need my pokedex now.
There are too many unknown throwing tips, comments and crap.
Honestly, I want to play as a recon more than I play as a striker, but striker's the only class I can exceed 10,000 damage with, and you know how people act towards people with low damage...
"High damage simply means:
1. ASI UVs.
2. Constant energy reviving.
3. Constant Sealed Sword or Hammer swings.
4. Double heart pendants.
5. Full Skolver / Snarby set. Usually with high or max resist."
Incorrect. High damage means you hit a lot of people. That's all.
this steam discussion is relevant
http://steamcommunity.com/app/99900/discussions/0/864969481794636024/
so effing true. who caps in randoms really unless your doing it for practice. im an aa noob but i still love contri <3 /yawn borrringgggg
Mm ;)
In my opinion, skill in LD is not distinctively shown on the scoreboard nor leaderboard.
The "caps" you see on your stats mean nothing. Your team could have been on that point forever and all you have to do is be on that point when it is captured and you get the credit. Damage on the other hand you have to kill for, which is also a vital part of PvP. Don't give me this crap about damage meaning nothing. A diverse team works best. If you have a team of 6 players just running around to caps, you're not going to win. For example, there could be one player holding the opposing team back, which means he/she has less caps but still does his/her fair share of the work.
"High damage simply means:
1. ASI UVs.
2. Constant energy reviving.
3. Constant Sealed Sword or Hammer swings.
4. Double heart pendants.
5. Full Skolver / Snarby set. Usually with high or max resist."
Is it bad to have UVs that anybody can go and roll? Is it bad to use mist energy that everybody is given freely? Is it bad to swing a sword anybody is free to go and craft? Is it bad to use trinkets that anybody can craft? Is it bad to use a gear set that others decided not to get? Rustymacola, your ignorance shows :o A player who is serious with LD will use these perks to their advantage. This gear will not make a very big difference in their technique, but why play handicapped?
~Fodow - Dwarf BUNNEH!
/agree feller (sorta)
I must say, high dmg does not reflect much skill. However, I did see an ash tail with a blizzbrand (no trinkets or UVs) get 10k dmg, which is impressive. So damage alone reflect nothing, but damage + gear, definitely says something. Someone who gets 15k dmg with a DVS ASI VH would tend to be more skilled than someone who got 15k dmg with a GF ASI VH. Drpends on gear people!
Also, Fodow, what you said about UVs makes no sense. "Is it fair to use UVs anyone can get and roll?" Why don't you buy a flourish off the AH, go to punch, and see how long it takes you to get asi vh. Then do the same with a brandish and a sealed sword and a valiance. Now take that number, and ask yourself how many players actually have that amount of money. (Unless you have the luck of an irish god, it will obviously be extremely high). Talkin in the 10s of millions of crowns, maybe even 100s.
Everything else you said about gear everyone can craft is fair, but UVs? Obviously not. If they were easy to get, people wouldn't pay 40k for ASI VH on a GF.
your opinion is as invalid as the mexican mafia up in dis thread. Fodowdo and his clan fist blood are all abunch of ATers.
that is end of tread.
@ Voza-ll I never said UVs were easy to get. What I'm saying is UVs are part of the game and should not be frowned upon just because other players don't have them. You don't hate on somebody because they have a black kat cowl, which is very expensive, yet you'd complain about somebody's ASI high UV? If you are spending hundreds of millions of crowns on rolling... get some common sense and buy one >.>
@ Grug You're drunk, go home troll. Your ignorant post is irrelevant to this thread.
"Incorrect. High damage means you hit a lot of people. That's all."
Umm, hitting a lot of people is pretty much IMPLIED from the above facts. Youre an idiot.
"Answer is no. If you're looking for discussion, you're asking the wrong question. Maybe, 'does damage correlate to skill, and if so how much?' would be better."
The question of whether damage correlates to skill is already implied in the title and you just made a redundant remark lol. You are either a moron or some kid trying to sound smart but failed :)
"Is it bad to have UVs that anybody can go and roll? Is it bad to use mist energy that everybody is given freely? Is it bad to swing a sword anybody is free to go and craft? Is it bad to use trinkets that anybody can craft? Is it bad to use a gear set that others decided not to get?"
Yes, UVs are part of the game but the problem is you make it sound like getting an asi medium is easy and certain, let alone an asi high or vh. Rich players that constantly revive and play a lot of matches per day (3-5 times per match) will run out of mist quickly so they resort to CE during later matches, thus potentially giving an unfair disadvantage to less-wealthy players who have only a mist tank to burn. Yes, you can craft a divine avenger or a polaris but youre missing the point. The guy didnt say anything that we shouldnt use them, only saying that they are the easiest to use versus using other weapons which arent as easy. I mean which is more impressive: owning people using easy weapons that anyone can pick up and use, or owning people using difficult weapons that require skill?
You see Fodow, its pretty ironic that you yourself are ignorant and just made a fool of yourself in here. If youre not gonna contribute anything intelligent to the discussion, why dont ya just play lockdown and go swing your GF or something...not that its hard lol. Butthurt skolver clones, SMH.
The moral of this story:
The best way to make yourself look better is by trying to bring everyone else around you down with insult
Come on clones, lets hear some more logically weak reasons why damage really does = skill.
Noob has now come to mean anyone who is better than you or has a difference in opinion. I try to not call people noobs unless im joking or they're bugging me.
Redblades makes a really good point and just cause feller disagrees Red is now a noob? :/
Well in my opinion the answers is yes and no, yes because it take some skill to kill another player a multiple amount of times and no because it does not necessarily make you a good player just by getting damage because it is actually not the objective.