http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/83949
Details! Discuss!
Battle Sprite Ultimate Skill discussion
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 14:34
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 15:14
#2
Poor Drakon
Drakon still seems rather under powered (not to mention useless in FSC), and based on this skill list it seems like maskraith is still the best spirte for directly attacking and damaging enemies.
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 15:48
#3
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
This seems handy...
I'm going to get Seraphynx! I love how it works. (Atleast on the testing server.) The beam is so handy, and because I have a particular problem with trojans and kats, I'll find the Dazzling Light Ray a boon!
Hmm...or I'll get Drakon...I like how the Explosive Firestorm works...does it make over 3 explosions? Random question, I know.
@Battlegrinder
This may not be true. Mask may have much less damage in the long run unless there are menders. Though I have testing server access, I can't know how it will work in the final version.
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 16:43
#4
Oh man, details!
Drakon
Firebolt
Concussive Firebolt
Sounds really neat, and would definitely have its uses. You really get a sense of the impact when the target is afflicted by stun as a result and sets them up for a full onslaught.
Meteoric Firebolt
A good alternative to the Concussive Firebolt, leaving the Knight to decide whether they want a powerful impact strong enough to stun their targets, making them easy prey, or a huge blast to send larger groups of enemies flying.
Flame Barrier
Scorching Barrier
Sounds like an all right upgrade. Bigger and more fireballs should help make the skill more effective at setting things around you ablaze.
Backfire Barrier
I have a feeling this skill may be more favoured over the other due to the burst of speed, depending on its duration. One could argue that it would serve a greater defensive purpose over the Scorching Barrier whilst also providing a good method of offence using the speed boost.
Firestorm
Frenzied Firestorm
Basically, Firestorm + Alpha Wolver buff. Great for parties. Unless applied to user, useless to soloists.
Explosive Firestorm
Don't need friends? Sounds like a great alternative for soloists to get in some additional damage over the offensive buff that the other alternative provides.
Seraphynx
Ray of Light
Dazzling Light Ray
Sounds like a neat idea, but compared to the skills of the other starter sprites seems like an underwhelming ultimate as it is applied solely to two monster families and otherwise appears to function just like the regular Ray of Light. I would suggest this upgrade either increase the beam's length and/or width, or inflict some form of status condition to make it a viable option next to Disintegration Ray.
Disintegration Ray
Currently the clear superior ultimate for the Ray of Light, as it is not limited to only two monster families and debuffs target's defence.
Heart Attack
Iron Heart Attack
This ultimate appears to enable defence buffs to be dropped from enchanted enemies upon death, which sounds like a nice bonus.
Violent Heart Attack
An offensive version of Heart Attack, allowing for extra damage when destroying enchanted targets in a crowd. Seems all right if you're the sort that takes few hits on the field.
Angelic Aura
Seraphic Aura
I can definitely see this ability being extremely useful in hectic situations where avoiding hits is tricky to pull off and your shield suffers a lot of punishment. Great ability.
Valkyrian Aura
I can see this one being popular around demos and wielders of powerful charge-weapons like the Autoguns and Brandishes. Less attractive in terms of its utility though.
Maskeraith
Caustic Quills
Vengeful Quills
Sounds very effective for spreading poison across a larger number of enemies, and would definitely be useful in arenas and other crowded areas.
Virulent Quills
Although the idea of a damaging(?) explosion triggering from damaging a quilled target sounds attractive at first, it seems to be less efficient in that it relies on random chance to trigger, though I suppose it would be an alternative if one is simply looking for additional damage.
Shadow Cloak
Deadly Shadow Cloak
Sounds very appealing for sneaking into a room with a fast weapon handy for the ambush. A good option for the more aggressive Knights.
Vengeful Shadow Cloak
This one takes a more defensive approach with a good opportunity for offensive play as well. An overall good choice for anyone in my opinion.
Hexing Haze
Haunted Haze
Oh my goodness, possessions! Ahem... Sorry about that. Definitely a go-to for the more offensive-oriented combatants and could execute some amazing chain reactions with good damage distribution amongst groups of enemies.
Chaotic Haze
The supportive alternative to Haunted Haze. Sounds like a joy to (ab)use.
Concerns
I have a feeling that some abilities may end up being neglected as a result of bad design or misinformation.
Frenzied Firestorm, for one, does not contain any details about the user. If the user does not benefit from the buff then I imagine a lot of Knights would go for the Explosive Firestorm for its consistent usability and being an overall great option for soloists.
Dazzling Light Ray just doesn't stand up to Disintegration Ray no matter how you look at it. Even if Firestorm Citadel is all you ever run, Disintegration Ray has a defence debuff and works against any monster, meaning that all mobs would be affected by this ultimate, whereas any other monster than Undead and Fiend would be unaffected by the effect of the Dazzling Light Ray. I've given my own suggestions further up this post, but it really needs a rework.
There are some other abilities I am a little on edge about, but that may just be me overthinking it or suffering from midnight-syndrome. Unless a common concern spurs I will be holding back for now, but the ones I have mentioned in this section should be looked into as soon as possible.
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 16:57
#5
Just a heads up, you will be
Just a heads up, you will be able to test these ultimate skills out tonight on the test server! See the test server changelog for details.
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 17:07
#6
yesssss, back to test server
yesssss, back to test server I go! if only we could change them just on the test server, so we could test out each ultimate skill choice
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:09
#7
when... WHEN!
You said tonight, i'm still waiting and really getting overexcited about the whole thing.
Granted that could be the caffeine talking.
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:52
#8
So what if I choose my ultimate, and then get tired of it after a while?
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 00:10
#9
@Shidara
Basically, Firestorm + Alpha Wolver buff. Great for parties. Unless applied to user, useless to soloists.
For every monster caught in the blaze, you and your party have a chance of receiving an attack power and speed bonus.
Sounds like a neat idea, but compared to the skills of the other starter sprites seems like an underwhelming ultimate as it is applied solely to two monster families and otherwise appears to function just like the regular Ray of Light
There's no way to tell yet how much the damage is boosted by though. If it's a Maximum! damage increase it could very well be useful, especially if the defense reducing upgrade only reduces enemy defense the same as moderate poison.
These ultimate versions of the abilities give effects that would make Drakon more useful in FSC. Especially those explosions giving the Firestorm an actual damage number.
@Fehzor
So what if I choose my ultimate, and then get tired of it after a while?
Then too bad? Maybe the developers might let us completely reset our sprite to level 1 later on.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 01:20
#10
Maskeraith!
Haunted haze looks like the most fun ultimate skill. Using the enemies like puppets. (⌐■_■)
I don't think the Drakon thing is UP, Fire is a powerful status and KoA isn't the only mission.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 01:45
#11
Slip through the confusion; Find a solution.
I think... I'm in love with Violent Heart Attack :3
Lol, besides the inside joke, it can help me after beating monsters :)
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 01:48
#12
Laughter is the countdown to devastation
I like the Maskeraith ultimates. Not too bothered about the others, since I'm not going for them.
I have a question: in Orcs Must Die 2, most of the gear have two "Unique" upgrades, which, while you can't have both, you can swap between one and the other for free. My point being, will the Ultimates allow us that choice?
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 02:25
#13
Meh, i knew, that every Vana grinder will choose Sera.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 03:09
#14
So can we only get 1 ultimate
So can we only get 1 ultimate skill or for every skill 1 ultimate?
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 03:13
#15
It's spoilers, you guys are spoiling upcoming changes in the general discussions. Plus we haven't tested it, how come we can talk about it now? õ_õ
Way to go, double standards.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 04:30
#16
@Thespychecker
Each skill upgrades into an ultimate, so we will have 3 ultimate skills: the three skills you currently have but made ultimate.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 05:45
#17
Do Vengeful Quills bounce only once or can you make an infinite loop with them?
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 08:53
#18
Strange, I expected there to be more people here. At the very least I thought Luguiru was going to barge in, perform a social commentary of Spiral Knights through Jester-dance and leave.
I guess people just don't care.
Or it's the holidays and people are off in the sun trying to hit each other in the head with their balls. And frisbees. And cats. And rats. And anything else that cane be thrown.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 09:32
#19
I'm with Fehzor here, these are permanent choices that, as far as we know, can not be undone, something we've never seen before on Cradle. You can regain that ASI VH Final Flourish with some Punching or rage crafting but this appears to me as unundoable. Explain yourselves, gentlemen!
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:21
#20
hmm
really have to see the skills and possibly try them out before deciding, descriptions can say this and mean that
personally, i love explosions although my current pc is bad, so im not gona disagree on ppl saying drakon is bad, its just gona make the pet even more awesome
i hope, that all skills are at least just about good enough to be worth utilizing and this is my primary worry on all pets and their respective skills
the other thing is balance to weapons
if the skills r really powerful, i could see them as temporary 6* weapons and try them in hard mode
if not, well then theyre just tiny bonus dmg or some kind of utility, which is only mediocre in combination with proper tactics
in the end, pets might be a perfect way to combo up with weapons, but i havent seen them in action and cant tell, how they work
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:29
#21
Do we get only one battle
Do we get only one battle sprite? Either way I'm soooo going for maskeraith!!
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:34
#22
wait...
Do the Sprite skills help us too?
Like the Shadow Cloak only makes my sprite invisible, or both of us invisible? etc.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:42
#23
/reply
these are permanent choices that, as far as we know, can not be undone
Blast it. That kinda sucks. I was hoping they'd be interchangeable. I guess people are less likely to get the "Has a chance" ultimates now that they know this? Or won't they care?
At the very least I thought Luguiru was going to barge in, perform a social commentary of Spiral Knights through Jester-dance and leave.
That'd be awesome.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 11:02
#24
@Vladmir - Sprite skills aid the player. If this wasn't the case then what would be the point of having an invulnerable sprite that follows the player?
Make Drakon have the volcanic color scheme instead of toasty. Volcanic fits a fire dragon.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 11:11
#25
"Vengeful Quills
Each time a quilled target is hit, another quill is fired from the target to the next available target."
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 15:50
#26
Maskeraith I choose you!
I think I have a thing for the Maskeraith now, like not on Seerus level but diffidently close... I want one for so many reasons IRL and in game :D
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 16:47
#27
The papaya giggles
@King-Tinkinzar
I do believe we get to choose another Sprite later on...But the one you choose at the beginning will probably be the one you focus on the most :P
@Waffleconecake
I want one for so many reasons IRL and in game
Then the world would be a lot more crazy :P
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 18:53
#28
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 05:20
#29
Luguiru made a one sentence post. What is this, 1st of April?
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 05:23
#30
@ sprites cannot be changed as far as we know
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 06:50
#31
*though your first selection is an important one*
I'm still wondering what that means. There must be something.
Like only your first sprite can get ultimates, or you can't level up another until you max your first, etc.
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 06:58
#32
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
...or you can't level up another until you max your first, etc.
I hope so, because this wouldn't be possible otherwise.
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 12:55
#33
as usual a pretty neat thank you for giving us this excellent opportunity to contribute to the community and fandom :3.
I like so many others chose Maskeraith as my first option, he's cool and all but I think I'll be going with Seraphynx by the time this goes serverside. I like Maskeraith's powers, but I doubt I'm that much of an aggressive player tbh and I'd love to be helpful during those elite runs by casting heart attack. onto the topic at hand though:
I was a bit worried that there weren't enough explosions from the quills and the random statuses don't really have a high cast percentage. that's more or less my only minor grievances :3
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 14:12
#34
wait wait wait
who moved this down here? the other one stayed in GD until it fell into oblivion. what makes this different?
besides, ultimate skills. they seem like a great power up, all of them. which is bad. but they are encouraging variety, which is really good. keep up encouraging variety.
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 04:50
#35
@Thunder-The-Bright
It's here now because they are actually being tested, meaning that it is now in the relevant forum section.
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 06:27
#36
the moving here means that we out of the test server cannot post here anymore. also, there is a battle sprite feedback thread in this section already (and the other one in GD hadn't been moved) and people in there are (were?) posting about ultimates already.
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 06:54
#37
Agreed with thunder. There is already a BS discussion/feedback thread here, and this one was started in GD for the non-testers to see and post in. So it should have stayed that way.
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 07:44
#38
I feel cheeky
I decided to make another character just so I could try out both ultimate skills the Seraphynx. Took a while to get him fully leveled, but I think it was worth it for the experiance, if not data.
Seraphynx
Ray of Light
Dazzling Ray vs Disintigrating Ray As mentioned in another thread, I currently don't see any damage boost against either undead or fiends with Dazzling Ray; I suspect someone forgot to put the actual boost. Irregardless, given how Disintigrating Ray can cause a near 20% damage increase (It goes from 130 to around 160 at depth 24 when critting against monster via the respective harness), I suspect Dazzling will do much more than that. Say, give or take, around 200 per pulse at depth 24 (Again, this is in regards to use the stronger damage type again the respect family. I.E ele vs undead and so on). An 80% boost to say the least, as currently Disintigrating is far superior in terms due to it's utility. If anything, adding a slight range or thickness increase to Dazzling can help; or even a minor stun, as that would definitely help to root undead and fiends in place for obliteration, and go with the idea of 'dazzling'.
Iron Heart: This is a great option for those wanting to help protect their allies, and so far I feel the mechanic works. Defense orbs drop JUST enough to make it work, and since it's all instance and lasts for a while (30 secs), it's all good. I can't honestly tell if the hearts drop working or not, since there's always the matter of chance, but it's good otherwise.
Violent Heart Attack: A lovely alternate to those who really don't want to rely on chance, and demolitionists as well (Also would theoretically synergize well with haunted haze). It's tempting to figure out which one I woud really go for, since I'm a demo. However, as also mentioned, the explosions currently don't seem to be working when a monster is killed, so it's kinda hard to give accurate critism on this.
Seraphic Aura: So far, I like the general functionality of this skill, and having added shield regen for your partners is a great boon. Although I did play with others, I'll admit it's a tad difficult to tell just how well the shield regen works, though being able to hear the regen take effect is good enough. I could probably use a bit more time in a less chaotic fight in order to figure out how effective the shield works.
Valkery Aura: I love this idea of this as an alternate; again, it's a tough choice on my end since I'm a bomber, but I also pike to protect people as well. That said, this is the skill probably hadn't had the most time with, so I it's hard for me to tell just how much it affects CTR.
Aura in General: Again, I liked to stress having some indication in when the aura is about to wear off, as it really does give me a feeling of invincibility. Furthermore, it'd be nice to have some specification on just how it protects players (Does it add damage reduction, or does it actually prevent dmg for those within?). The reason I ask this is because during a few intense fights, the aura dropped a lot faster than expected, and I suspect it was because me AND guy I was shielding both took a lot of it.
The Looks: I have to admit, the initial changes I saw to my sprite when I choose their ultimates felt a bit out of place at first, particularly the attenaes. However, after a while I seem to get used to it, and it did sorta seem to fit in. Honestly, the asthetics is a fluxauting opinion, otherwise they seem fine.
Final Thoughts: Overall, I like the ultimate choices for the Seraphynx, although granted, the Dazzling Ray with just the family dmg buff is a bit questionable; it does make sense however. Everything else looks good besides needing to tweak them
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 11:23
#39
Drakon's Ultimates
So I made a couple of new characters on the preview server to try out Drakon and its Ultimate Skills. My usual strategy in battle is to run into a large group of monsters and jam my Dread Venom Striker / Brandish descendant down their throats, so Drakon's offense-oriented skillset seems like a perfect match.
Firebolt
Concussive Firebolt
- Adds a chance to stun along with its chance to ignite enemies. Gives Drakon a horn on its snout.
Notes: Pretty nice to have when using Firebolt to snipe turrets or stationary enemies. The blast radius is still large enough to get a multi-hit.
Meteoric Firebolt
- Increases the radius and knockback force of the blast. Makes the Drakon's ears longer.
Notes: Not a fan of this. The increased knockback seems a bit too disruptive, and the radius increase is kind of underwhelming knowing the normal radius.
I'd prefer taking the Concussive Firebolt. Although, I don't use this skill nearly as often as...
Flame Barrier
Scorching Barrier
- Grants 4 fireballs instead of 2, and slightly increases their hit radius. Adds a very handsome beard to your Drakon.
Notes: Holy crap.
Absolutely devastating in a melee. Effectively makes you a walking, damage-typed, fire-inflicting Dark Retribution. The damage inflicted by those fireballs is really good when you're getting critical hits - you'll get ~147 critical damage per orb hit at D24. You can literally run circles around enemies to defeat them quickly. Also good for pairing with the Crusader Armor set for a convincing Vanaduke impression. Probably the best skill in the game.
Backfire Barrier
- Grants two seconds of Striker Dash speed on startup. The back of Drakon's head gets an extra row of spikes.
Notes: The speed boost is hilarious, but is also sudden and can make you lose control of your knight very easily. The boost has some benefits, like quick statue carrying or getting over floor traps in an emergency, but otherwise isn't worth losing the damage potential of the Scorching upgrade.
Scorching Barrier is pretty much the reason for me, or any swordsman, to use Drakon, and it's a damn good reason to boot. Backfire Barrier is nice for players who would rather go fast (and run straight into Shadow Fire tiles), but I still see it as the worse option.
Firestorm
Frenzied Firestorm
When an enemy is ignited or re-ignited by the Firestorm, there is a chance that you and your party will get 5 seconds of increased damage and attack speed. Makes Drakon's floating arms much larger.
Notes: The extra damage and speed makes this an interesting option for players who spend a lot of time in parties, and/or with other swordsmen who are using different Sprites. However, Firestorm's massive cooldown time makes this option far less appealing compared to Scorching Barrier's quick damage output in most situations.
Explosive Firestorm
Adds a series of explosions in the Firestorm's radius. Gives the Drakon some (cheap-looking) wings.
Notes: The explosions do some pretty nice damage. However, the long cooldown still keeps this attack from being very viable, and the Frenzy buff could be more valuable than the explosions.
Either of these choices are pretty good. I'd probably go with the Frenzied for the party buff chances, even if I wouldn't normally use this skill otherwise.
Overall, Drakon's Ultimate choices make for good augmentations of its existing skills' properties. The exception to this would be the Scorching Barrier upgrade, which is the most significant Ultimate upgrade I know of right now and makes the Barrier skill an incredible offensive tool. That barrier is what's changed my mind on picking Maskeraith as my starter Sprite upon release - I'm getting those great balls o' fire for sure.
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 16:11
#40
Is the MSI from ultimate skills going to be noticeable or just crappy 4% increase?
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 18:48
#41
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
@Usevnsevnsixfivfor
Oh, it is. It's an even greater increase when wearing full merc and having the MSI med quirk. ;)
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 21:52
#42
@Obsidious
Furthermore, it'd be nice to have some specification on just how it protects players (Does it add damage reduction, or does it actually prevent dmg for those within?)
The Seraphynx's shield ability works like a second shield so it absorbs all damage while it is up. (or so I've been told) It's double-Dutched: It expires either when it runs out of time, or if it takes too much damage and breaks. Judging by my experience with the Maskeraith's cloak ability, I'd assume the defense it protects best at is dependant on what harness it is wearing. So you can either choose to deal more damage to enemies with an offensive harness, or resist more damage with a defensive harness (although it's an easy choice with Cosntructs or Beasts since they deal the same damage they're weak to)
Tue, 07/16/2013 - 12:15
#43
Beard
I love everything, except Dragon's beard, seerusly what the firetruck? I don't really like it and I don't think a beatnik beard fits into a Dragon.
Tue, 07/16/2013 - 12:16
#44
Double post.
Tue, 07/16/2013 - 13:49
#45
@Ellthan-Cosmolion
Then obviously you don't like Salvador from Borderlands 2 then.
Wed, 07/17/2013 - 07:56
#46
This thread was moved in
This thread was moved in error. Please resume general ultimate skill discussion and leave play experience feedback on the test server forum. Thanks!
Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:12
#47
Legitimate Question.
In the Test Server, you can only pick one sprite, and that is your sprite for the rest of eternity. If these 3 sprites are only the starter ones, how will we get the ones that ARENT starter if we are stuck with the one with pick from the mission>
Wed, 07/17/2013 - 16:35
#48
"This thread was moved in error."
PLEASE.
DO TELL.
Wed, 07/17/2013 - 19:38
#49
I don't agree with the design
I don't agree with the design of having to make permanent gameplay choices in a game like this. I predict some ultimate skills will be very weak compared to others, and there's little way to know in advanced without having used them ourselves. Since OOO hasn't/can't remotely balance existing items, how can we expect the ultimate skills to be balanced with each other? Imagine if you were permanently stuck wearing the first alchemy line you decide to make in tier 1. I'd feel sorry for whoever chose the heavy armor line.
Wed, 07/17/2013 - 23:04
#50
Laughter is the countdown to devastation
Oh, hi thread.
How was your trip into the Testing forums?
I don't think Dazzling Light Ray is going to be popular, family damage bonuses are never as useful as general utility.
Do the bonuses from Frenzied Firestorm/Valkyrian Aura/Deadly Shadow Cloak have an effect if the ally's relevant stat (CTR, Damage bonus, etc) is at max already?
Also sorely disappointed that neither of the ultimates for Heart Attack is called Sheer Heart Attack.