Yes narcissism , I fully understand the definition. It is the only logical explanation to you behavior after being told several times that this thread is not to let everyone know how great you are that you do not die in the game and then proceed to tell everyone that if they are not as great as you then they shouldn't even be attempting to do a sl or danger mission. The discussion was about the cost of revs, not another chance for you to boast about your shadow layer prowess. You above all should be concerned about this because it appears you are f2p since you have not even been on the test server.
However, you are entitled to your opinion about this matter and i would like you to feel free to post on the thread about the rev cost. In addition i would also like to thank everyone for their input on this matter..:)
REVS ARE 20CE EACH NOW!!!!! YAY THEY LISTENED !!!!
@Obama: Do you really think he's waving an e-peen about? He's being logical and isn't providing an argument based upon ad hominem.
OOO IS giving players a good option. "If you die, just try practicing on a lower difficulty until you're ready." It's something that makes sense. Why should everyone expect to be able to challenge elite difficulty without any problems? I agree the rev cost should be lower, but that doesn't mean it should be so low that the message doesn't get through. Death should mean, "Hey. You need to pay a bit of energy to rev, or you can pick advanced or normal to practice." Remember that everyone gets a free revive each depth, which I see is perfect for most randoms I find in FSC.
You seem to be the only one thinking that some of us are waving an e-peen around here. Now then. Could you please drop that and let us get back to the ACTUAL topic of CE revs?
My input (once again):
Make the spark of life drop rate constant across all tiers.
Reduce the cost to 30 energy.
Allow health share revives.
Reasoning for 30 CE: The first energy revive on the new system (second revive) would be just as expensive as two energy revives on the current system (second revive). Proposed cost:
New: 0-30-30-30-30-...
Current: 10-20-40-80-160-...
I think 30 is still a little high, but it's certainly better than 50. Something in the mid twenties sounds like a better max value (I think the original 10 is still the best).
Regarding the issue of people "bragging" about their skills and saying that players who are having trouble with this system should go to an easier tier or lower the difficulty, I think you're still missing the point. The issue a lot of us have with this system (and to a lesser extent, the removal of health revives) is that we're already practicing at the easier sections, and still have trouble. With this revive system, new players will be punished so much for failing that quitting the game will become the most attractive option to them. Imagine if in the next patch, TF2 started auto kicking you after you're third death. Even if you decide to keep logging back on after that, how long do you think it would take you to progress to a reasonable level of skill and be a match to the players who have been playing since before the auto kick started? It would take forever, if you could do it at all. Suggesting that this new system should be implemented to prevent players from advancing faster than their skills allow doesn't match the reality of how this game works. In order to actually gain skill, you need to practice in an area that's challenging. With this system, you will be actively punished for attempting to improve. Saying that thus system is ok or a step in the right direction is very arrogant and comes across as "I got mine, but you can't have yours".
@Klipik-Forum post #43
Jeessusss christ Kiplik, stop doing my job of being the angry voice of reason. You are meant to be the clam voice of reason D:
@everyone saying this is stupid.
A) Sparks of life will be a drop from mosnters, this means you can get them regardless of what you are killing as long as it is not a respawn mob.
B) You auto get 1 free rev.
This means if you were to do 5 levels and find 2 sparks of life on the way you could die 7 times with out spending a shard.
Stop your moanin and groaning and look at the good, not just the bad.
SURE it will cost you allot IF you are a greedy tart and sell all of the sparks you find but if you are actually concerned with not having to spend any CE then you will bloody save yours.
@Obamaphone
You're acting narcissistic by trying to limit HOW people comment on the issue you brought into with this thread. Klipik can say all he wants that "you are all over reacting, the point is to give good players who can defeat what they are facing a back up life in case they get screwed over and to tell players who are not good enough to beat it to go practice some more" In what ever manor he feels fit as long as foul langue is used.
He isn't bragging or claiming he is better then you, I'm claiming that I'm better then you currently with this statement as you are acting if not are a total twit but that is not the point here.
The point here is that a PUBLIC forum under should not be censored under most circumstances limiting foul language and keeping things on topic is another thing but to try and refuse people to make their own statements and claims on a subject that the thread they are posting on is relevant to is both wrong of the person trying to stop them and cruel to the idea of free speech.
Feel free to start hating me :) I'll add you to the list.
It is ok to stick up for a friend that cannot read and understand the title of the forum they are posting on. i am not limiting anyone on HOW they comment about this topic. The problem was your buddy was not able to stay on topic without feeling the need to brag a bit. i am merely attempting to keep this thread productive and not a conglomeration of everyone's opinions on their ability's and others. I'm not sure if you realize it but there is spell check available when forming your first draft, just right click on the RED underlined word and it will show you how to correctly spell it. Your last 3 run-on sentences are completely invalid because there are specific topics so people know where and what to post about. You do not sell items on the suggestion thread now do you? As far as your theory in reference to the spark of life drops from monsters, It is exactly that, a theory. Nobody knows the drop rate of them so any comment about it is pure speculation. These sparks may be as common as the elusive dragon scale, try finding one of those! that sir also renders your formula useless and in accurate. I do not hate anyone in this game and i would prefer you keep me off of any list you may have.
Ps: i think you meant "as long as foul language is NOT used" as far as the rest it was painful to read.
hey guys, at some point, you thought it would be a 50 energy package with 5 Spark of Life?
I'm going to say it.
The new revive system is entirely necessary.
- Health revives didn't encourage teamwork; they encouraged kamikaze.
Part of the reason why high risk, high reward equipment such as Chaos Cloak and Blitz Needle is so popular is because of how little death matters. As a concept, and even as an implementation, these weapons are not unbalanced. They're supposed to be something you can only use in a given situation if you have fully mastered that situation. Why bother dragging the fight out for longer than you have to to prove that you have a complete grasp of the battle? The problem with Chaos/Blitz is that the penalty for failing to use them wasn't nearly large enough. Sure, Blitz roots you in place and makes you easier to hit and Chaos makes hits affect you harder. The result of this? If you're not good enough, you'll die.
And that doesn't mean a thing.
As long as your teammates are able to stay alive, you can run into any situation with Chaos/Blitz and just tear stuff apart until you die, then your teammates can pick you right back up. That health will pop right back up in a few health boxes anyway. Since the enemies die fast, even though the player does as well, being suicidial for the sake of taking out a few important targets is a totally viable strategy, and that needs to stop. Strong gear belongs in the hands strong players who can prove themselves worthy of using it. The price for overestimating your own abilities, and thus dying? It should be high. It should be at least 50CE. It should not be half of your teammate's health, which would get replenished sooner or later anyway thanks to numerous pills and hearts.
That being said, with the free health revive per level, you can still suicide rush one target per floor. That's at the risk of being able to revive later, however.
- It's going to be severely easier to survive in groups when the update launches.
Currently, in a full group, the amount of pills and remedies available for any one player is, on average, cut by 1/4th. You need to share these resources with your teammates unless you're fine with them going without health refills and remedies at all. With the update, you're going to have 4 times the available pills, vials, mecha knights, remedies and vitapods you're used to. Even though you can't health revive eachother, being in a group effectively increases the group's total health and health refills by 4, as well as doubling their effective firepower (4 times the firepower divided by 2 times the enemy health).
If you see a pill on the ground after this update, you can use it. Your teammates aren't able to even see it and as such it's going to be very easy to stay in peak health condition at all times. Health revives were a way to compensate for these resources having to be split between the party, but they won't any longer.
This isn't even mentioning Battle Sprites. People were so worried that the game was becoming too easy, but the truth is that all the clever AI in the world wouldn't be able to do much to make the game more difficult when everyone had an infinite amount of free revives going for them. Health revives had to go. CE revives had to become more expensive. It's the only way for the game to start getting challenging.
You make a good point regarding the effect this system might have on endgame players. However, I don't think you fully considered the fallout this change will have on non-endgame players. As I pointed out in my last post, this revive system will hurt new players, as it denies them to opportunities to refine their skills by tackling challenging and dangerous missions/tiers. Endgame players might be able to adapt to this new system. Little guys like me might not.
@Waffle: I know that sparks of life will drop, the question is how often the will do so. After all, you could in theory get to endgame using nothing but equipment that drop in the clockwork, but in practice that happens so rarely that the only way to progress is to buy and craft better gear yourself.
as it denies them to opportunities to refine their skills by tackling challenging and dangerous missions/tiers
Not really. When I tackle Chen/Alice/Hong Mei Ling/ on higher difficulties, I get hit. When I run out of lives, I have to start the game all over again. Obviously this isn't that bad if I'm only 10 minutes into the game, but if I'm at someone like Eirin, Youmu or Remilia, that's half an hour I've got to spend to get back up to that point.
What I'm trying to say is: boosting your skill "hyperbolically" by going into harder missions than what you're used to has to have its drawbacks: You get better quicker, but it's more costly along the way. Regular MMOs have this system in play in the form of experience and potions. You can go into higher level dungeons to level up quicker, but you'll go through potions a lot faster, negating any profit.
And to be fair, the fact that you can revive people a lot a times with this system is actually one of the weaker points of the current system. Dying doesn't feel 'nearly' as consequental as should, irregardless of heat loss (All considering people will often have fully heated gear). I WILL say that I don't think the system entirely encourages kamikaze play, although the mentality can certainly be there; players will often run to help their down buddies when they can, and that certainly does bring about a sense of teamwork. It's the ease at which players can do this so frequently given a single level that can lead to the above mentality.
And in some ways, playser are probably less encouraged to coordinate their actions another in order to survive, although that's a tricky subject in of itself; particularly with random parties, as you don't know their playstyle, skill and so on. However, considering the addition of sprites, this should be become much more viable, and encouraged as well (Scorching barrier + Seraphic=wonderous). Still, being able to pick up your downed buddy was certainly one of the more positive traits of the old system, and I still like the idea of having it around. After all, that sort of thing can help solidify good group play.
I've posted this before, but I'll summarize a two ideas I've had: half-life sparks and using your own emergency revive to help another player. Both would work in the same fashion as health revives: run up to a dead person and click the action button. The chief thing to note is that 'half-life' sparks are similar to the current sparks in that they drop, if not more commonly, but can ONLY be used on other down players. As for the latter method, well, you would obviously use up your own emergency revive to pick up another playere.
Either one means it won't BE as easy to revive other's as constantly as you might in the old game. My only concern is those players being inactive for most of the level because of two lousy deahts, although that should be easily avoidable by being able to stock up on sparks.
You know what would be epic? If this update was paving the way for a Vitasuit buff.
@Zeddy and @Hexzyle: I love both of you... I mean I agree with both of you.
your calculation is correct that a full team deals out 4 times the damage againt double healthy enemies. but also consider that every player has to face only more or less a quarter of the enemys; making it more even easy.
There are much more exsamples of such a kamikaze behavior than just using chaos set and needle.
This also starts with using insufficient armor, and or weapons.
In one of my last's twins run, i was together with someone wearing perfo armor instead of elemental(and dont mention the quicksilver).
However this guy managed to go down twice during the first level, and i have to revive him .(not doing so, would mena trouble with my guild.)
The rssult was that we both died in the end battle and neede an energy revive.
Ironically we would have made it with the new revive system! Why? because every time, when my temate needed a revive, i only had half health(more or less). With the reamining health , i go down within one hit.
If my teammate would have get this emergency revive, he would have get more health, than even my two healthsharing revives together transfer to him.
And i would have had enough health to win the final battle of this floor!
The normal vana equip is:
5 (basic health points) +
2x5 (l armor set)+
2x6 (Penta heart pendat, some have trinkets, i take the maximun here )+
18(maximal vita from FSC)
=45
half of is this is 22,5 ;
The emrgency revive is capped at 30 health points.
=> Emergency revive gives you more health then the best case health sharing revive!
For SL:
The maximal availabel health is:
5 (basic health points) +
2x8 (Ancient set)+
2x6 (Penta heart pendats)+
2 (scarlet schield, although ridiculus because being 3*)+
30 (maximal vita from SL, after wiki)
=65.
half of it is 32,5. Only slightly better than the emergency revive.
A spark of life revive gives you full health, so yu are making it even longer.
And these calculations are only for the best case!
On last thing: Sparks of life will not cost you 50 CE. Why? First, you can find them. Second, you will (hopefully) able to buy tehm at auction house.
Some people with no time to play (hopefully) a´buy Spars of life with hteir mist energy and sell them at the auction house.
I guess that the price will be aroung 2k cr for them.
Another thing: three rings, can you please make the life pills work faster. Its frustrating when you die bevore the pill works too late! Many players will thank you!
As i said in my thread.
Let us to choose how many hearts we will give to fallen knight, bind to +- counter of hearts.
Do you like it?
For those who still think the new revs will be cheaper, you have not figured in the fact that most people only have to rev 2-3 times to complete a danger mission. i see many big charts showing the 10th rev etc. i would say if you are reving that much then you are not wearing the correct gear or are playing a mission that is way above you skill level. The new system will cost most people much more if you need to rev only a few times. As far as the sparks of life dropping, Nobody knows at what rate they will drop so you cannot comment accurately on it. Chances are they will be doping at a rate similar to dragon scales which means you will do an entire core run from 1-29 and not get a single spark. If that is the case then how would you feel about the new rev system?
I insist we will have sprites to help us. If you died 2-3 times before, now you have enough help to only die once.
I know all the testers are really saturated right now, and maybe not actually checking for patches, but as I mentioned here revs are now 20 energy (stack of 10 for 200 energy). Also, you get them as mission rewards, and there seems to be a daily login bonus(?)--I received different amounts of fire crystals and sparks when I signed onto different characters.
I still think 50 ce was good
Right, forgot about that. The main point still stands, though - current reviving becomes more expensive very quickly after the price passes 50CE/rev.