Spiral Knights - Beware Scammer

Beware Scammer - be smart!

71 replies [Last post]

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 16:18

Crossproduct

Update: He's using alts( names removed) scammed me out of 1875 ce saying he'd gift game after. He is actively scamming people right now, numerous other people have reported being scammed by him.

Evidence here:
(screenshot removed.)

Obviously it's my fault for agreeing to trade without using steams built in trade system, but he's still scamming people and that's ban worthy in both steam and SK, so remember to report him. I did in both.
(Name removed)

He is still actively scamming people, so warn your friends. This is the primary reason I'm posting this here and not waiting for admins to take action because I cannot abide cheaters and scammers in any way.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 16:19

Skyguarder

Naming and shaming other people is against the ToS. >_>

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 16:21

Crossproduct

It's more important for other

It's more important for other people not to be scammed. He's still doing it.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 16:30

Apace

thanks for the warning, i

thanks for the warning, i nearly traded D:

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 16:33

Reto-Da-Liz

Scammers need to be punished. Period. Naming and shaming highly suggested when we are talking about scammers, cause that's what they deserve, besides a Permanent Ban.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 16:34

Quinzal

dtbitbos

Doesnt this belong in the Bazaar or something?

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 16:44

Sushh

good job lookin out for others.

his offer is very tempting though. i would have probably traded too if i didn't see this. a good ideal of trade when there is a trust issue, the person with higher proof of rep should go last in the trade.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 16:48

Crossproduct

Just an update, he's using an

Just an update, he's using an alt now updated op.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 17:29

Skyguarder

Again, naming and shaming is against the rules. Even if it's about scammers, you shouldn't name or shame them.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 17:46

Apophis-Set-Two

Naming and shaming may be incorrect. However, this person is active currently, and it is important to inform the community of his actions. He tried to scam me too, I just didn't trust him.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 18:27

#10

Glacies

Naming and Shaming is against ToS on the forums. I suggest contacting OOO about this and undo any unjustice he has brought upon anyone.

Firstly, I suggest if you've been scammed to firstly use the /report function in-game.

Secondly, I suggest contacting a Game-Master here https://www.spiralknights.com/support/#requests_new and explain the situation. They will sort out anything going on.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 19:27

#11

Voza-Il

Hey cross! Yeah, I recommend

Hey cross!

Yeah, I recommend blanking out the names and images, or risk getting a troll massage from the game masters.

I hope you are able 2 fix the problem!

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 19:41

#12

Fehzor

The terms of service is against the terms of service.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 19:47

#13

Skyguarder

@Fehzor

The Terms of service is against the terms of service against the terms of service

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 20:45

#14

Crossproduct

Yeah he's still at it,

Yeah he's still at it, (name removed) is another alt, 3 total, updated op.

Remember if some guy is asking you to give him ce first, be it for unbinding a weapon, or for buying a game, they're probably scamming.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 20:57

#15

Waffleconecake

How is this Naming and

How is this Naming and Shamming? We are not calling him any thing he is not, that would be like claiming you are being racist for calling a Chinese person Asian.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 22:35

#16

Digibyte

To prevent this from happening again...

Never pay in advance.

They'll usually convince you that they have the desired item, but for whatever reason they can't trade it at the moment (or don't have it.) Then once they've gotten you to pay in advance, they'll keep your money, ignore you, and never give the desired item. Only if you absolutely trust the person you're trading with should you EVER pay in advance.

Sun, 07/21/2013 - 23:43

#17

Hexzyle

You're damaging his reputation when he may be innocent.

That's why naming and shaming is forbidden. It's not up to you to decide what's scamming and what isn't: that's the admin's job. It's their responsibility to be perfectly just and unbiased when dealing out punishments. If you happen to name and shame the wrong person, you've caused them damage.

It's actually possible in real life to sue someone if they've put false accusations over you: because they've damaged your good reputation, even if you turned out to be innocent.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 01:31

#18

Crossproduct

Hexzyle he is not innocent,

Hexzyle he is not innocent, he stole 1875 ce from me and for hours today he was actively using alts to scam more people. These are simple facts.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 02:04

#19

Thunder-The-Bright

do you have contacted support for this? if not, you shouldn't be here. contact support, make him banned, and then tell in haven. that is the route.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 02:13

#20

Glittertind

"You're damaging his reputation when he may be innocent." -Hexzyle

Well, OP was scammed, so we're sure that at least one of the posted names are the guilty one. OP can probably supply with some evidence for the others too, or he/she wouldn't be naming them.

"That's why naming and shaming is forbidden. It's not up to you to decide what's scamming and what isn't: that's the admin's job."

Hahaha, what? You don't think people know when they've been scammed? There's not really any grey area here, either you've been scammed, or you haven't. No need to make it seem complicated by saying the GMs/admins have to determine whether it was a scam or not (especially when it's as straightforward as this). They just need to figure out what went down. Either a crime was committed, or it wasn't.

"It's their responsibility to be perfectly just and unbiased when dealing out punishments. If you happen to name and shame the wrong person, you've caused them damage."

Again, fairly sure this is the right guy, no?
And you make it sound as if the players themselves can dish out punishments... "Nuuh, you're too biased! You can't just report people and warn others for a scam that obviously took place!"... ?

"It's actually possible in real life to sue someone if they've put false accusations over you: because they've damaged your good reputation, even if you turned out to be innocent."

Well, it's not like OP pulled any name-calling or anything of the sort. So I'd love to see someone try to sue someone else for a scam that happened.

Basically, seeing as it is a straightforward scam, OP never really did any shaming (in my opinion). But the guy that pulled the scam only shamed him/herself when doing it, and this thread only serves as a warning to other people.

"thanks for the warning, i nearly traded D:" -Extrajuicybits

And here we're seeing an effect already.
If anything, people should be thankful for a heads-up like this. So yea, thanks, Crossproduct.

Yea, this thread will probably not make the folks at Three Rings smile with glee (and a warning will probably be issued, naturally), and I see the problem with people calling out each other over scams that were(n't) commited. But flaming a warning-thread like this by yelling "Naming and shaming ish bad and you should feel badQ.Q" is just brainde-*Sigh*.

TL;DR:

Justiceee.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 06:28

#21

Thimol

-----

You don't think people know when they've been scammed?

some people (not in this case, mind you) are quick to cry "scam" when there may have been just a simple misunderstanding

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 07:08

#22

Worknplay

Dem ToS soldiers.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 07:49

#23

Skyguarder

OP is still naming. You're naming who the scammer is numerous times, and that's not allowed. Naming someone for doing something bad is breaking a rule.

Why can't you just send a support ticket? It's very simple to send one.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 07:56

#24

Grimranger

@ToS guardians

Just shut up. He's doing a public service. This guy is actively scamming people, not like regularly where it's just one time.
Why don't you let the GMs/Eury do their job instead of being a (donkey)?
@Crossproduct Thanks.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 08:03

#25

Rating

@Skyguarder or should I say

@Skyguarder or should I say 'mini-mod'

I think it's safe to say that Crossproduct knows how to report a scammer. The rest of us appreciate his warning, and let the GMs come remove the scammer's name if necessary.

/Applauds Crossproduct's vigilance

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 08:22

#26

Crossproduct

Received a response to my

Received a response to my support ticket from last night, they're aware of the guy and presumably taking care of business. If they feel this thread is unwanted they can take care of it too.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 09:26

#27

Hexzyle

@Weedalot

Well, OP was scammed, so we're sure that at least one of the posted names are the guilty one. OP can probably supply with some evidence for the others too, or he/she wouldn't be naming them.

There's no way he can prove that for certain, no matter how many screenshots he provides. Only the GMs can verify the claims.

There's no way for US to know the OPs been scammed, because he can't provide any rock hard proof, like unmodified logs.

"Fairly" sure is not 100%. The players are dishing out a punishment by revealing his name on the forums. By now, some 300 people have viewed this thread. If the "scammer" was falsely accused, that's 300 people potentially that the "scammer" cannot trade with or be friends with.

Well, it's not like OP pulled any name-calling or anything of the sort. So I'd love to see someone try to sue someone else for a scam that happened.
Basically, seeing as it is a straightforward scam, OP never really did any shaming (in my opinion). But the guy that pulled the scam only shamed him/herself when doing it, and this thread only serves as a warning to other people.

The "shaming" part is calling the person a scammer.

"thanks for the warning, i nearly traded D:" -Extrajuicybits
And here we're seeing an effect already.
If anything, people should be thankful for a heads-up like this. So yea, thanks, Crossproduct.

If Extrajuicybits was just about to be scammed by this player, and ONLY was stopped because he was informed that player was a scammer, what does that say for Crossproduct's scammability? This means that anyone whom Crossproduct doesn't know is a scammer can scam him easily, since he can't identify scammers on his own.
Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

Flame;

to directly oppose an idea using ad homiem and offensive language without a solid argument.

Discuss;

to converse or debate concerning a particular topic

TL:DR

Evidence can be fabricated, especially if there is a grudge involved. Only GMs have direct access to the logs. What if it turns out OP has been done bad by the person he's naming, and wants to get back at him by making everyone hate him? It's better if you just take common sense with you whenever you trade: players shouldn't form a dependence on the forums for scam protection, and there's no point remembering the names of scammers because there are far more out there that will get you.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 09:34

#28

Wildsoccer

I too was scammed by this person.

Pulled the same trick on me but with the Operation Crimson Hammer DLC on the 18th. Unfortunately the ToS bans naming and shaming so I didn't warn the forums.
Screenshots:
The agreement:
http://imgur.com/tBrk7u9,KzdHtiQ,g2fZgRo,akt6BLC#0

The agreement in the trade window:
http://imgur.com/tBrk7u9,KzdHtiQ,g2fZgRo,akt6BLC#1

The addition of CE:
http://imgur.com/tBrk7u9,KzdHtiQ,g2fZgRo,akt6BLC#2

Proof of trade after he changed his name/bailed (thank god for trade histories on steam):
http://imgur.com/tBrk7u9,KzdHtiQ,g2fZgRo,akt6BLC#3

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 09:36

#29

Backwild

Hide yo kids!

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 09:46

#30

Hyper-Galactic

RAWR

Even if it's a clear and cut case, it's not for us to be the judge of our own case. The GMs are the only authority to certify the scam here, no matter if it's 100% clear cut or not. I can't find a thread, but people have named and shamed others as scammers when they weren't, on other MMOs. It takes an independent party here, the GMs, to certify crossproduct's issue. Innocent until proven guilty by a proper analysis via an independent party.

Anyhow, someone at OOO has access to steam account banning, so they can totally make a scammer cry mercy unlike a generic forum pitchfork thread.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 09:43

#31

Worknplay

@Hexzyle You're not on the

@Hexzyle You're not on the right track. It's a case of known forums user. Hence your logic doesn't apply because he's already trusted and known to be trustworthy. Forums logic, how could you miss that? Awwww

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 09:52

#32

Hyper-Galactic

RAWR

@worknplay crossproduct, no matter how well known here, is not a figure here to apply the bans within steam or be the judge for ones own case. Also you'd be surprised at senior MMO players losing their marbles occasionally (not saying crossproduct did).

Anyhow forum peeps, never accept IOUs during a trade unless said person is your IRL friend. There are more than enough 12 year old scammers with nothing better to do than fool you. Verify the trades before clicking as well.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 10:06

#33

Worknplay

oh my, sarcasm detection

oh my, sarcasm detection fail. The whole point of me saying this is forums are creepy and well-moderated enough to not have constant mini-mods crawling around reminding rules everyone already knows. Because indeed, no one here is a figure here to apply anything close to banning and mini-moding is the most unproductive thing one can do here.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 10:08

#34

Hyper-Galactic

RAWR

@worknplay oh, feisty!

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 10:46

#35

Hexzyle

@Worknplay

Using your logic is how people get kidnapped and how sex offenders thrive.

If someone were to wrong a popular or apparently trustworthy person of the forums, couldn't they use how much people trusted them as a weapon to get back on the person who wronged them?

This was stated in another thread, and I thought it was relevant:
Hyperion: One of the reasons we don't allow "naming and shaming" (for any offense, not just scamming), is that it's entirely possible to lie. One of the cool things about Spiral Knights is that it does have a community who, largely, care about other people. Unfortunately, like any online game, it also has interpersonal disputes and hurt feelings. It's not unheard-of for players to want to "get revenge" on someone they feel has slighted them (or that they've broken up with, etc. - there are any number of reasons for hurt feelings) and attempt to tarnish their name and get them banned. The community at large, being caring folks, may then shun, harrass (maybe not as individuals, but getting angry messages from lots of people mounts up quickly) and generally make the game unfun for the person in question. The "naming and shaming" policy is not to protect scammers and other evildoers; it's to protect the innocents who might otherwise be perceived as such.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 11:04

#36

Worknplay

#33

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 11:30

#37

Hexzyle

I do it for pleasure.

I do it for pleasure. Discussing rules and regulations is something that brings me enjoyment.
If it takes two posts to explain yourself, why not just put them both in the same post in the first place? Even my terribly subtle puns are more obvious and relatable humour than whoever's delusional idea it was to say the opposite of what you mean. At least other people have the "creativity" to use "troll-voice" when parodying someone.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 11:38

#38

Worknplay

I do it for pleasure. Double

I do it for pleasure. Double posting and using opposites is something that brings me enjoyment.
If all you do is mod players, why not be a moderator in the first place? Even my terrible subtle sarcasms are more obvious and relatable humour than whoever's delusional idea it was to act like a moderator when you're not. At least other people have the "creativity" to use "moderator accounts" when moderating someone.

Oh my, fun fun.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 12:08

#39

Dragonicblaze

>:D

I ask for ce first before things like unbinding, and they trust me >:D.. of course I warn them not to trust anyone else, but assure them they can trust me :3

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 12:41

#40

Skyguarder

"why not be a moderator in the first place?"

Either that point is sarcastic or there isn't logic.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 13:44

#41

Gravelord-Caste

Laughter is the countdown to devastation

I like how the title has changed to tell some dude called "Scammer" to be smart.

If it's against the ToS to name and shame, and if it's a bannable offence to scam on steam AND SK, then shouldn't you just report the guy? Telling us about him seems noble, but aren't you going to get in trouble yourself, if you haven't already?

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 15:07

#42

Dragonicblaze

Crossproduct is doing this

Crossproduct is doing this for the greater good, is that so hard to understand, Caste?

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 15:55

#43

Adaddsdkjasodjasoi

Doing something that the ToS doesn't allow.

Who wants to be warned for doing this?

We ain't vigilantes.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 17:28

#44

Voza-Il

^ Dat name...looks like

^ Dat name...looks like someone smashed their head repeatedly into the keyboard. Why didn't I think of that >.<

It appears this epic forum battle is between doing something for the greater good (informing people of a scammer through naming and shaming), and being ToS abiding tools.

For the greater good!!

Also, when I first started, I got scammed out of 6k crowns (Staggering amount of cash, I know), since I wanted an arc razor. I only figured out I was scammed a few days later :(

People! Unless the person is a popular bazaar fender (like HelloHippo, Apophis-Set, Silversray, Darkarkangel, and all the others with threads in the bazaar forum which aren't all bumps), don't trust them. Exchange items of equal value at every step tp enaure scam protection. Also, don't assume you can buy an Qrc Rqzor by lending someone 6k crowns D;

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 18:01

#45

Skyguarder

Last summer, I was scammed outta 7k. It was a T2 person who told me that they need 100 CE for reviving. So I decided to give him 7k. He said he would pay me back by giving me a seerus mask. When I gave it, he said "Whateve". After, I reminded him to give me my seerus mask in one week.

After a few weeks, he forced me to pay up 10 CE and 15k crs. I told him to give me my seerus mask. He told me to calm down and said that I was imagining too much. He then told me to give 20k ce for a seerus mask (It was ridiculous). He convinced me that crafting prices raised up to 1000 CE along with 100k. I checked and of course, he was lying.

I added him to my ignore list and unfriended him. He said that he would rather read a book about @#@$ than giving me the seerus mask. He said that he lied and he doesn't want to owe me the seerus mask.

Idiots, these days

@Voza-II

So sorry for hearing that. :0

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 18:08

#46

Hexzyle

@Worknplay

There you go, that was a far better use of sarcasm.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 20:21

#47

Voza-Il

@Sky Man, that guy sounded

@Sky
Man, that guy sounded like a real....you know. I would say it, but the GMs who undoubtedly hate me would prbly ban XD

At least it was only 25k! Still enough for a punch roll and 1250 ecto drops, but still...ah well. At least it wasn't 2k CE like my frie d got scammed out of :/

Hurficanes > Tornadoes

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 20:38

#48

Troupe-Forums

Its not even ToS that was being broken - its forum rules. There's a big difference...

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 23:03

#49

Gravelord-Caste

/reply

Draconicblaze: I'm not questioning whether or not this is for the greater good, I'm just wondering that, by breaking rules himself, is the OP going to get in trouble? He's walking on a thin line, and might get by without a warning if this scammer is still continuing, and Crossproduct's stopping people from getting scammed, but it's up to the GMs to decide whether or not Crossproduct is doing enough good to not get a warning. They might just give one, despite their thoughts otherwise.

And thanks for calling me Caste instead of "Grave" or "Gravelord" XD.

Troupe-Forums: Ah, ok, thanks for clearing that up. Apologies to anyone who was mislead by my post.

Mon, 07/22/2013 - 23:46

#50

Glittertind

"Evidence can be fabricated, especially if there is a grudge involved. Only GMs have direct access to the logs. What if it turns out OP has been done bad by the person he's naming, and wants to get back at him by making everyone hate him? It's better if you just take common sense with you whenever you trade: players shouldn't form a dependence on the forums for scam protection, and there's no point remembering the names of scammers because there are far more out there that will get you." -Hexzyle

Aye, aye.
I agree to what you say, and as I already said in my previous post: I understand how it can be problematic.

"Flame;
to directly oppose an idea using ad homiem and offensive language without a solid argument.
Discuss;
to converse or debate concerning a particular topic"

When people just flaunt "Naming and shaming is not allowed!" or link to the rule, they aren't really discussing, debating, or argumenting, hence why I said flame.

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Beware Scammer - be smart!