Spiral Knights - Why is everyone whining alot how rare orbs are?

Why is everyone whining alot how rare orbs are?

31 replies [Last post]

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 18:47

Soulstaker

Everytime in Haven or on a run, I hear someone complain how rare orbs are. There's a reason why they sell orbs in the supply depot. Yes 3* and higher orbs cost 100ce more but you have free elevators so you can get that extra 100ce in no time. Before the current sale thing going on in SK, post update CE prices were around 6k to 7k. While new players have a harder time find those orbs, it is still quite easy. You can instantly pass 2* HoH because they gave you free 2* in the missions before (Unless they took those missions out after the update.). 3* should take awhile to get and you even get them from mission rewards. If you don't have enough, just do JK runs and buy orbs from the supply depot. Also applies to higher star gear but
you can sell materials or pet food on AH or grind vana.

And remember, we used to have to craft with energy only so crafting is so much easier now (Forge just makes it slower).

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 19:49

Panthera-Leo

Not to mention...

Elite difficulty allows for orb drops easily, I've already accumulated 475+ eternal orbs. Some people need to learn to play on elite mode, and understand loot differences, you're not going to get orbs on pip-squeak normal mode, work hard for them, or simply spend E on them. Basically, whiners need to shut their mouths and stop crying, if I can find that many eternal orbs with minimal play time, so can anyone else, no excuses are valid, so long as elevators are free.

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 19:52

Juances

Nick is guilty of promoting this. By his words "you willl find so many orbs you won't know what to do with them". He forgot the detail of elite mode. Everyone got the wrong immpression.

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 19:52

Kwizzy

"I've already accumulated

"I've already accumulated 475+ eternal orbs
...
if I can find that many eternal orbs with minimal play time,"

What is your definition of minimal play time?

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 20:05

Panthera-Leo

@Kwizzy

1-2 Hours a day when I'm not working, most of the time I head for treasure vaults, strictly stratum 6. but think of this in a large time span, it's been nearly a week, usually an average player won't bother to work so hard anyway though.

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 20:28

Agent-Fungoose

Don't hunt for orb drops, get

Don't hunt for orb drops, get a lot of crowns. Money solves everything.

Lots of crowns > Buys energy in the Market > buys orbs in the supply depot.

Energy is cheap; it's easy.

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 22:09

Misty-Wellington

"Energy is cheap", he says.

Yeah, check again. That's thanks to the latest Supply Depot promotion.

I've personally not been forking out on Energy because I've been focusing all my resources on levelling my Sprite. 20 levels to go until 100.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 00:59

Gravelord-Caste

The Truths don't provide any Answers

Nick is guilty of promoting this. By his words "you willl find so many orbs you won't know what to do with them". He forgot the detail of elite mode. Everyone got the wrong immpression.

My impression? That I'd find so many orbs that I didn't know what to do with them.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 01:52

Blitzsonic

It was all fine until mr

It was all fine until mr superlucky guy got like 20 orbs in 1 arcade run because he had op 5* gear in tier 1 and 2 and played on elite(the only reason to play on elite is for the loot, or at least it's the reason for most of us). OOO tired to "fix" this, but it happened again, they tried to fix it and it's broken it for everyone. New players can't really get all the orbs now(they don't play on elite, so they couldn't even farm it before, and now it's like "play elite or get out/get no orbs". Buying from the supply depot was possible(the ce price went down again) but now it's too high(supply depot sale) so new players will have to wait again...

Just that you know, i'm before the hall of heroes and i could craft my 5* stuff, but i'm currently working on the shadow lair gear

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 02:09

Jaroche

I'm pretty sure Elite mode

I'm pretty sure Elite mode means better chance of high-star drops, doesn't mean other modes don't have that change, its just lower.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 04:28

#10

Metemer

I'm still interested in that

I'm still interested in that 475+ eternal orb drops, was that before the drop rate fix? even then I only got 12 of them, and that period only lasted a day. Treasure vaults usually give me no more than two orbs. And I always playing on elite.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 05:43

#11

Orangeo

Normaly I'd be mad at the

Normaly I'd be mad at the whole "Let's make orbs a CE sink!" thing, but the point behind that is that, if you're playing a difficulty easy enough to actually require you to use the supply depo, you'll probably be reviving less and therefore can afford to spend CE on materials. It prevents people from playing easymode to save energy.

That said all this new junk is confusing to me still, especially since I haven't been able to get on much.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 06:17

#12

Warp-Master

@OP

People are whining about Orbs not dropping enough because for players who aren't already at Tier 3 and comfortable with Elite, they aren't dropping enough. Before, when mist was a thing, you could craft 2* items without buying energy (whether directly or from the market) and 3* items at a reduced cost. My impressions from the dev posts and observations of the game itself indicate to me that the dropping of Orbs is to provide a replacement for mist that required people to actually play the game. Then Vanguards on T3 Elite complained, and Three Rings took it as an excuse to make the base drop rate infinitesimal instead of just dialing down the drop rate for T3 Elite like they should have. That means that Spiral Knights' historic problem of buying energy being mandatory to advance (whether you're buying from Three Rings or from someone else who bought from Three Rings) hasn't gotten any better, and in fact has gotten worse.

Remember, market energy is unreliable in the extreme and beholden to the whims of Three Rings and Sega. (Mostly Sega, I suspect.) Just look at what's happened to energy prices in the last week; from 8k to a reasonable 6k to old, grindtastic 9k, all because someone thought that the Supply Depot wasn't making enough money.

I'm not asking for Eternal Orbs to drop like candy on Normal. In my opinion, Normal should be a stepping stone to Advanced for players just getting their feet wet. I'm asking for free play and advancement to actually be viable.

My Orb rebalancing thread is over here, for those that care >> http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/86111

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 07:05

#13

No-Thanks

Lag PC

I had no incentive to even try Elite Mode until i actually saw an Orb of Alchemy drop there.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 07:06

#14

Whimsicality

If you think orbs are too rare, buy them with CE. If you don't like that, then let's revert to the old system.

Oh. Wait. You would need CE anyways.

Be patient for goodness' sake.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 07:13

#15

Theopholis

I've been finding enough orbs to craft at least one new thing everyday. Often, I can do more. What more do you want?

Play on Elite mode, and get yo'lazy butts in the arcade.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 07:46

#16

Warp-Master

@Theopholis

You lost me at "Play on Elite mode." The point I've been hammering at for the last week is that Elite shouldn't be mandatory to craft stuff for free. People play on Advanced too, ya know. Also, if you're playing T3, your argument is irrelevant here anyway because we're talking about Orbs not dropping enough for sub-T3 players.

@Maskeraith:
I don't think we should revert to the old system. I think that for free advancement the old system was superior, but that means that the new system needs tweaking, not that we should go back to the old system.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 08:10

#17

Gravelord-Caste

/reply No-Thanks

There was one guy who got an Orb of Alchemy in Elite Mode, which is the only proof of them dropping that I've seen so far.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 08:22

#18

Vesperaldus

@Sirthomas

So... you got about 68 per day? In JUST 1-2 hours play time? That seems to be crazy good odds. I don't care if every single depth was a treasure vault if that was even possible! I've hit several treasure vaults in different stratums on Elite and not once got a single Orb (Mystery however did get 3 from one but no more later on).

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 08:40

#19

Privateriem

Look at

Look at this
http://postimg.org/image/kk1q0e2d5/
There isn't a stratum that drops nothing but elite orbs.
Of course 5* drops often, it's the only thing that can drop.
In 4 days, I found 3 elite orbs running 14-17.
I still need about 12-15 to craft my 4* gear.

And then on top of that, Shining crystals are too hard to come by, for how many of them you need.
Level 2 crystals are useless, you can instantly go from 2* to 3*.
Level 3 crystals aren't that needed, they drop in large quantities and you only need to get your items to +5
Level 4 crystals are the most needed to progress, because you have to level everything to +10.
Level 5 crystals will just drop as you venture down so they're not an issue.

In 6 days in playing, my shield didn't get a single level, my sword didn't get a single level, my helmet didn't get a single level, and my pistol didn't get a single level.

I hit the jackpot yesterday after a dangerzone in T2 and got 20 something shinings.
Then I realized I needed 60 of my 72 crystals to get a single level on one of my swords.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 09:11

#20

Msaad

@Sirthomas Impossible.You

@Sirthomas Impossible.

You said you've got more than 475 orbs in 1-2 hours of playtime per day. Let's do some Math.
It has been 8 days since the update, So say you played 16 hours since the update. You stated that you usually play at the Arcade. The average time for completing a full Arcade run is 1 hour and 45 minutes (Yes I know it can be different if you're speedrunning or on an easier run/whatever.). Since you played 16 hours since the update, your total run time might be something close or more than 12 hours. Meaning you do 1 arcade run per day.
So 475 orbs in 8 Arcade runs/12 hours of playtime. You get 59 orbs per run. Which is, without a doubt quiet impossible. Even if you did 2 arcade runs per day, it would still mean you got 30 orbs per run.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 08:58

#21

Theopholis

Stratum 5 is where all the Shining Fire Crystals and Elite Orbs are. At least on Elite mode. Once you hit depth 22 you're getting 5* stuff. Trust me; do a few runs in Stratum 5, in the Arcade, on Elite. I average 20-50 SFC per run. Plus Orbs and What Not.

More acurately, you want depths 17-21. But it's easier to just start on Stratum 5.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 08:58

#22

Orangeo

Gonna grab a quote. "The

Gonna grab a quote.

"The point I've been hammering at for the last week is that Elite shouldn't be mandatory to craft stuff for free. "

Even in elite mode you don't truly "craft stuff for free". In easy mode, you die less, but it costs money to craft things unless you're incredibly patient. In Elite, you get more orb drops and don't have to spend energy crafting, but you're likely to die more, therefore you spend more reviving in order to craft free.

It's supposed to average out between modes.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 09:02

#23

Theopholis

Get Some Skills, Play For Free

I agree that no one should have to play in Elite. And no one does. But you can't expect to advance as fast as the people who do. This game is not really all that difficult, and with just a little practice anyone should be able to run the arcade on Elite mode.

Danger Missions and Shadow Lairs are a different story.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 09:48

#24

Warp-Master

@people

@Orangeo:
When I say "craft stuff for free" I mean being able to crafting a decent percentage of your items (my random-percentage-dartboard says 30-40%) without buying Orbs from the Supply Depot; I'm not considering how many Sparks you had to burn through to get those orbs, since that's highly skill-dependent. The "averaging out" of which you speak is there, but only between Normal and Elite; Advanced is stuck in the middle where you die more but don't get much additional benefit.

@Theopolis:
I agree with you that nobody should have to play Elite, and that players who do should advance faster. But the problem is that people like me who don't (or can't) play Elite and therefore play Advanced can't get new gear at all without buying all our Orbs from the Supply Depot.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 09:52

#25

Theopholis

@Warp-Master

You're statement simply isn't true. You can get all the orbs you need in the clockworks. It will take some time. I was speed running for minerals on normal mode, and orbs were dropping; not as many, but they were.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 10:22

#26

Warp-Master

@Theopholis

All right, one of us is missing something, and I'm starting to get tired of butting heads. How many orbs were you getting per run on average? Over what depths were you running? By "normal mode" do you mean Normal or Advanced? Were you running into a bunch of Arenas, Treasure Vaults, or other levels with a lot of boxes? In my opinion having to aim straight for gates with lots of boxes is only marginally better than running bosses all day erry day like in olden times.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 11:23

#27

Theopholis

@Warp-Master

I'd say only about 1 orb per run doing strata 3 and 4, or 5 and 6, normal mode. Non-selective about gates, but I'd hit arenas or treasure vaults every other run or so. But that seems reasonable to me. You should have to do at least 3 runs on the easiest mode before you get to craft a new item. That seems perfectly reasonable.

I apologize if it seems like we're butting heads a lot. I don't mean to be ornery, I just do not see the problem that people seem to be having. If you put in your time in the Clockworks you'll be able to make plenty of gear.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 12:00

#28

Privateriem

It took me 40 something runs

It took me 40 something runs before I found any orbs.
On elite.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 12:13

#29

Warp-Master

@Theopholis

Blargh. I knew I shouldn't have trusted the forums on this. (I've mainly been playing missions due to the new gear certification system and the fact that I was T2 before missions became a thing.)

How about we make a "document your runs" thread? Then maybe we can sort this mess out.

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 12:33

#30

Theopholis

@Warp-Master

I'm not really interested in properly documenting my runs. That sounds like work. And I like to simply play while I play, and ... well ... spend way to much time on the forums while I work.

I'd be interested in seeing your results though. And others'.

Missions really aren't the place you want to be while you're looking for rarities, from what I've heard. Though I've only played a few recently, since mine have been finished for ages. They used to be more profitable than the arcade, but a goal of the most recent update was to bring some life back to the arcade. Though, you do have to get them done.

There's also a chance that I just have better luck than you! Add me as a friend and we can go orb hunting tonight, for whatever tier you'd like. :)

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 15:24

#31

Violatte

If you want orbs...

If you want orbs, and you want them for "free" (costing only time instead of energy) here's some tips for farming them:

1) What Star-level do you want? (There is some overlap, and I haven't run all these levels myself to check drop rates, so I'm estimating.)
1a) For 1* Orbs, hit depths 1-5 or 6ish
1b) For 2* Orbs, hit depths 5-10ish
1c) For 3* Orbs, hit depths 11-15ish
1d) For 4* Orbs, hit depths 16-20ish
1e) For 5* Orbs, hit depths 21-28

2) Find a mission or clockwork levels in the desired depth range (listed above) that contain lots of treasure boxes (the green blocks and red blocks that "pop" with confetti and drop stuff when you break them).
2a) Good levels to look for are Arenas (Shield icon, challenging, but LOTS of treasure boxes), Clockwork Tunnels (Gear icon - could also be a Deconstruction Zone, but those are good too if you skip most of the enemies and just go for the treasure boxes - check the Gate Map to see which it is), Jelly Farm (a specific Aurora Isles level, green Grass icon), and of course Treasure Vaults (only appear on random depths denoted by ?s between the level icons on the Gate Map).
Clockwork Tunnel levels also sometimes have danger rooms, with cost 3 energy to open, are more difficult arena-type challenges (usually 3 waves of 1 or 2 randomly chosen creature families), and have around 12 or so treasure boxes and 4 heart boxes at the end. You can work out with your party a system of fairly deciding who pays to open the gate.
On that note, it is almost always worth it to open energy gates, since they always have treasure boxes behind them (and sometimes more monsters). 3 energy is very cheap (around 200-260 crowns), especially if you take turns with your party members opening the gates.
2b) Avoid levels that have few treasure boxes. Especially watch out for Compound levels (Gremlin-looking face icon - difficult levels with very few treasure boxes, as little as 2 per level), which are unfortunately extremely common in most stratum themes.
2c) Check the wiki for tips on how long it takes for clockwork levels to change/rotate, and decide whether it's worth the time to wait for a level to change or just run through it.

3a) It's OK to skip enemies and run through levels as fast as possible. You don't have to kill every monster to get most treasure boxes. You'll miss out on some crowns, heat and materials, but the orbs and fire crystals are far more valuable (if you need them, and sparks of life if you need them), and they only drop from treasure boxes.
3b) Run solo or in small groups of friends with the same goal as you (getting treasure boxes, and thus orbs) if you're trying to speed through levels. If you're running with random people who want crowns, heat or materials, then they'll be likely to slow you down, wanting to kill every monster, and taking longer to do so since the enemies get more HP for every member of the party.

4) Use the highest difficulty you can handle. The monsters are faster, have more HP, and do more damage at higher difficulties, but if you're good at avoiding their attacks, it just takes a little longer to kill them, and the drops rates for orbs (and fire crystals) from treasure boxes are much higher.

I do have more 5* orbs than I know what to do with (mostly from FSC runs on Elite). It's fire crystals that I can't get enough of to keep up with leveling my gear (I refuse to forge with less than 100% chance).

Search

Why is everyone whining alot how rare orbs are?