i agree that more enemies (and a bunch of them) to show the diversity that have craddle would be really interesting to see and some fun way to deal with new kind of enemies since they dont share the same "old moves" as the monsters we know. monsters cooperating? playing as team like we do? yeah that its pretty awesome because now enemies give us a challenge and not just "derpy derpy knight i will kill you".

but also Bromon have reason about we also need "new levels" that contain the new enemies. why? well new enemies could make the old levels interesting but we also must know how new enemies will make it "fair difficult" or "so freaking easy" well how is that?.

way back around 2009 or 2010 i cant remember, i saw a project called freedoom (a Doom wad just free, but this mean its different levels, different sprites, different sounds, different music to make it a free doom wad you can use to play on any doom server) so i said "Lets try it" and well let me tell you that since its a free project made by players and fans of doom, some levels where fair difficult, others unfair difficult and others so freaking easy.

we are talking about the same old behavior of doom monsters, if you play doom or doom II you can notice that the maps were made to use monsters behavior, but this not the same thing for freedoom. some of the "unfair maps" were made by people who barely understand what its a challenge or well they played their map and feel it so easy so they added harder enemies in closed rooms or they added 20 harder enemies in one room, some of the fair difficult maps were made by old mappers that really know how to set the enemies positions in the map. and the "freaking easy maps" well idk probably a new mappers.

so how what Bromon says apply here? well lets say we add new enemies with new behavior to the old levels. honestly i would be playing more because now i have a variety of monsters. but what will happen when (assuming that enemies spawns works randomly spawning a random enemy that belongs to the map level)

a brutal wolver with high speed appear on those classic button traps with a small space in clockwork?
A) would be easier because they dont have space to gallop
B) would be harder because they will surround you and bitting you to the death.

or lets talk about a lumber trowing smaller gremlins behind you so the lumber have time to reach you, this could be trouble since a good player will take first the gremlins. but what will happen if we get the monsters in those small corridor with spikes and turrets. where lumbers is there to be a deathly trap if you dont take first the turrets or with caution the lumber. he trow gremlins behind you where is nearing to you in a small lenght of road and the gremlins get in front of your way trapping yoou in middle of the spikes?

A) would be a certain death if you dont react quickly and kill the gremlins and have some health (for most of the players of this game)
B) would be a fair challenge (for a few people who play the game)

i want to believe that OOO made the levels so it can take advantage of the monster AI (after all is how game are made right?), so random spawners not matter what they spawn as long the monster fit with the map theme and its on the category of the monster should spawn there and works. adding new monsters mean that:

A) the game becomes more fun because the new enemies and new ways to attack us
B) frustrating for the new players because they didnt expected a situation like that.

and if its the later, expect threads like "Plz nerf X monster" and well you know how OOO tend to nerf enemies just because the people dont like to try new strategies or new weapons to deal such situation and the fun of the new enemies going to be taken away because the nerf and oh well we going to end with derpy enemies like the now we have.

but lets not see the bad side of this. lets say that OOO wants to make this (and hope they do) but why not also reworking some maps or giving some modification to the maps so the "New enemies" can work pretty well with old maps and not even mean just a modification mean old levels now reworked that can lead to new situations and new ways to deal with the game. a reworked FSC, jelly palace, gloaming wildwoods, ironclaw munition factory, and the other levels just modified to suit with the new enemies? that would be pretty awesome and will give more life to the game. (yeah will take more time to do that but honestly the effort will worth it).

So as Bromon say, dont get me wrong, new enemies means more fun but better they come with new levels where they are placed strategical so the challenge is fair and not unfair that will lead to the nerf of such enemy which will make boring the game again. (just take a look on some zdoom which randomnize the items, power ups and monsters, is fun because you get new power ups, weapons and new enemies to deal in the doom game you want to play, but what happen when you start map01 and the mod decide to spawn random a monster which you cant kill with your pistol and have a nice aim to kill you in 1 or 2 hits? either you restart the map until you come out with a good strategy or restart the map until the game decides to spawn you a fair enemy its somewhat similar that will end happening here).

by my part i just going to wait for whats OOO add for their game, if the content worth my time to spent it and get trought it bet it im going to play it more, if not well i just can wait for the next content.

now what i would like to see?

-More ways to finish a level, make a level "TRULY" to be explored rewarding you to explore every inch of the level, how its that "more ways to end" a level? well maps its just "Go to Point A to B" so why not to make "From Point A you can use road B, C or D, to reach E"
Point B: have traps around and enemies to slow you down
Point C: arena like parts of the maps so you must battle a lot of enemies to get trough"
Point D: puzzle like parts so you must solve them to get trought them (and please not puzzles like "find swicht" or "find key then look for the door" i know people will get frustrating with high complex puzzles. but im pretty sure puzzles like "phantom hourglass" or "spirit tracks" puzzles arent that hard for anyone and would be fun to have in spiral knights not a lot similar to these puzzles but you get the idea)

-Let me choose what i want to play in arcada (i hope arcada redux fix this) honestly i spent a lot of time just waiting for the "elevator" change to the map i want to play, and i end getting bored and quit or i just lost all my time and only play that map.

but whatever. is a nice suggestion Hexzyle and i would like to see this in game.

The bad point about SK is that the game relies on overpopulation of monsters to give the players a challenge. A true game is a game with the least amount of "smart" monsters that would work TOGETHER to bring down the player or at least give a veteran player a challenge. Stop relying too much on overpopulation, dev team. That is exactly what they did during grinchlin assault. Should actually work on giving a challenge without that much monsters. Monsters should be smart and have a strategy, instead of charging at the players.

Like these. WAIT. No. Not like these. I mean like small monsters in a low population giving the veteran knight a challenge by actually WORKING TOGETHER. I mean, the monsters in the CW just charge at you, with no strategy at all. If the monsters have a strategy to take down the player fast, then the players will start thinking as well, how to exploit their strategy and avoid death. Then people would stop complaining it is too repetitive...and then the game would actually be fun. Mixture of monstas preferred. Diversity is the key, strategy is the lock, and difficulty is the person holding the key and SK revolution is the person waiting on the other side of the locked door.

@Hex

"I just explained in the OP that new levels beget new monsters."

Oh wait that's not what you said?

Do you see the point Im trying to make here. Again, Adding more enemies is no different from adding more level configurations.
The reason new monsters beget new levels is because there suddenly becomes a demand to use said new monsters in a way that maximizes their potential for fun. In the same way, new levels beget new monsters to maximize the levels potential.

OCH only proves my point. New levels coupled with new monsters

monster behaving much in the same way current one do so they can be compatible with the level. Again, only proves my point. Monsters and Levels come hand in hand.

But to be fair, Im not making myself incredibly clear here.

I have no problem with the suggestion. +1. Do want. 3 thumbs up. What I DO have a problem with is the way you presented said suggestion. The title sais it all. This idea is being pitched like its the solution everyone's failed to realize. It suggests that this is the key thing that 000's should be working on, not other suggestions. "But that is what 000 should work on right?" Not quite. Lets pretend 000 listens to your suggestion. They steam-roll 20 new monster out right now. Forget compatibility. We're shooting for diversity. They do so, and everyone's happy. That is until they run into problems, say to make things easy, ghosts manes in a small lichen nest. Suddenly people stop having fun because the level has become punishing and just out right annoying. Y'know what next dont you? The complaints. Some fairly calm and reasonable, others not so much. But they all ask the same thing. Why didn't you just make new levels to put these cool monsters in. They'd be perfect for a gremlin military base level or something of that sort. 000 is like "Because this is what you ASKED for. Maybe you guys don't really know what you want. Maybe we should stop listening to you all together."

My issue with a thread like this, you make it seem like the community doesn't know what it wants. You get people like myself who entirely disagree, and because the thread was designed to push a certain TYPE of suggestion, rather than making an actual concise, yet detailed suggestion, the whole purpose is lost entirely.

Look, I know I'm being incredibly anal and I understand what your trying to do. But at least in my opinion, your only being counterproductive.

Did the OOO ever announce that Tortodrones were gonna return? Exactly ;D

I assume the tortodrone to be in the game files, so they can return it instantly after a few changes, so why is it taking so long?

OW.

I feel like we've gone off topic a bit...

(well, if youre necroing a thread, might as well add some stuff:)

-diversity is a +1
-randomness. we need randomness. unpredictability. it would be the same thing over once we get used to new monsters/levels. Fehzor has a thread about this (too lazy to link)

also, concept art:

Werewolver (Brutal Wolver)

uh

You know what would help the endgame a lot?
BALANCED LOCKDOWN.

That is no, more pay to win in the only thing in this game that takes any semibalance of skill.

But I'd also heavily appreciate some weapon balance changes. I've been staying with the game by thinking "That looks shiny... I wonder what it would be like to use it!" I love the crafting changes, because it encourages this sort of mindset a lot better. However now I have an arsenal of equipment that I simply don't use because they just don't compare to my favorites. These include the Winmillion, Triglav, Fang of Vog, Furious Flamberge, Leviathan, Plague Needle, Valiance, Biohazard, Mercurial Set, Heavenly Iron Set, Ice Queen set, and the Almirian Set. The sad part is that a lot of these things I really WANT to use, like the Almirian Set, and the Winmillion, but they just don't work as well as my Snarby/Skolver and Brandishes. ~Traevelliath

Intriguing thing is that the imbalance is intentional. I think those who find the game too easy shouldn't use Brandishes, and those who find it too hard should. Don't believe me? See Dark Souls II and their ranged weapons.

Well, also understand that no content is good content unless it keeps players happy until the next wave of content comes out. Once OOO learns how to do that, things will go smoothly.