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Roleplay Discussion - Roleplayers are encouraged to come discuss!

17 replies [Last post]
Tue, 09/03/2013 - 19:45
Hexlash's picture
Hexlash

So after seeing and partaking in the many Roleplay's that seem to have popped up recently, a few things have stuck in my mind, and while being unable to sleep for 3 hours, I thought of a few ways that could be implemented into a system, but I would like to know what you other Roleplayers think.

First problem, when giving information, you may give too much or give irrelevant information, resulting in the RP player abusing the knowledge.
For example, (Thin, I know I personally requested this, but oh well) In Thin Topo's RP, Thin drew a map, but it gives away information that the player would not have been able to know, for example, the RP players now know that there is an item in one of the rooms, which may influence their actions, good RP players may refrain from doing this, but it still poses a nuisance.

My solution: Only release information, when the player themselves find it. How do you do this you ask? Like dees.

Example---
RP Bob: My character wakes up, and looks around.

Mod: Bob's character sees a great forest of trees, the undergrowth creating a carpet that is so deep, it may prove nearly impossible to viable travel through.

RP Bob: My character decides to look around the forest to see if there is anything of interest.

Mod: Bob see's a glowing flower.

RP Bob: Upon further inspection, My character find a glowing flower and decides to go and pick it.
---
See? This allows for Mod's to properly handle what players know, as well as adding an additional dimension of more choices, and the possibility of creatives decisions. However, it may result in longer posts, and more dependency's on the Mods. To partially remedy this, I suggest that not everything result in a mod providing information, some things may just turn out to be plain old simple.

Second problem; time discrepancies, and RP players waiting for other RP players. Since no one can just sit there, constantly refreshing their page, waiting for new posts (except me over the summer :P) and because life is life, some players are able to post very frequently, while others may only occasionally pop in. I don't think I need an example for this one, but it is one of the most prominent problems. And along with that, time discrepancies. Every person writes differently, and some perform actions that would result in different amount of time consumption. This leads to some players falling behind, or being forced to be power-played to match up with what they missed.

For example--
RP Bob: My character decides to ambulate about aimlessly for large periods of time. ER I MEAN. My character decides to go searching through the mountains.

RP Jim: a character walks up to The Character. "Morning The Character! How was your sleep?"

RP Bob: My character returns from his long trip, after finding nothing. Tired, he goes to bed as the sun sets.

RP Bob: The next morning, My character decides to go kill a character. He finds him and then attacks him with his sword.

RP Jim: OOC dude im liek stiil wiatin fro him why r u doing taht?

RP Bob: Yo chill dude, you dind't even spel 'like' right! I'm bored, it's like 3 am in the morning, when are you gonna post Tom!?

RP Tom: (OOC: By great heavens, I thoroughly apologize for my lengthy absence, leaving you unable to continue this magnificent roleplay. I was just so occupied with saving drowning orphans and ending world hunger that I just was unable to locate time to access my computing device!) a character approaches and talks to me, I reply saying, "Why yes! It was great! What should we do today?"
---

See? Problems abound. My solution to this problem is a bit tricky, and may be disputable. My first idea would make it so that people who post frequently can't post about events that happen over long periods of time, while people who post rarely, are able to post about events that occur over longer periods of time, to account for the time that they missed? My other idea is this; what if we had a sort of 'stamina' system that meant that you couldn't post after a certain amount of time, so that people don't get too far ahead? It doesn't really solve the waiting problem, but maybe we can come up with something for that? I think what we would do, maybe, is have it so that people who post often must be more detailed and specific, while having a less chance of something happening to them, while those that post less have a higher chance? This kinda brings me to my next point.

Third semi/pseudo problem. Dictatorship? Or Anarchy? This is seen with Sintag's RP, Thin and Topo's RP, and Kaiju's RP. In Sintag's RP it is clearly seen that without him being there, the RP is able to progress and continue, BUT it is completely in the hands of the RP players, who have taken it very far from it's actual main idea. In Thinslayer and Topoyozariane RP it is very structured, and players are heavily influenced by what the mods choose, posts slowing down and eventually stopping at a certain point if mod action is limited. In Kaijuhunter's RP it is a bit more relaxed, but as soon as the mod ceases action, the entire thread dies. These are all examples of how mod action can affect the RP, but what is the optimal and prime amount of mod intervention and involvement? It may depend on what the mod want's to happen, and it may depend on what the players want to do, but what does every prefer here? You also ahve to take into account what happens if mod action is limited. For my attempt at resolving this, I propose that depending on what involvement level the mods and players want, the mod may want to have back-up, to help keep the thread alive when they may be absent, or create a more structured and mod dependent environment, if the mod knows that they will be able to frequently help to moderate their thread; opposed to a more open and free environment, if the mod knows that they will be unable to monitor the thread for a period of time. Maintaining these levels and keeping them constant may help a thread remain focused, as well as independent.

That's all I can remember for now, so thoughts?

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 20:27
#1
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Good points.

Releasing information as the players find it sounds like an admirable idea, but in practice requires more modding than I am willing to put in. If we give the information to the players irrespective of what their characters should know, we end up trusting the players to use it wisely. Giving them the extra information and stepping out allows them to use their creative energies in describing the levels as they proceed through them. Otherwise, if I had held back the information until it was required, the only person doing anything substantially creative would have been myself.

Put simply, a little extra info lets players write better stories and reduces the need for moderator creativity.

Your example about time discrepancies was pretty confusing. If you're referring to infrequency in posting, all that really does is hold up the roleplay. If you're referring to people who play in different time zones...be patient! If you're referring to posts containing time-consuming actions (like searching a mountainside), then it's important for players to keep them in the past-imperfect tense. For example, instead of writing, "Bob spent all day roaming the mountains and came back exhausted by evening," one should write, "Bob began to search the mountains," leaving open the possibility of interaction.

But if you wish to interact with a player who wrote a time-consuming past-perfect-tense post, then as long as both players realize that the resulting storyline will be non-linear, then just write as if the action wasn't done yet. To use the prior example, a player writes, "Bob spent all day roaming the mountains and came back exhausted by evening." The next player writes, "While Bob was roaming the mountains, Jim walked up to Bob and said, 'Howdy partner!'"

Now, the guys over at Mizahar have a strong solution to time-related problems, but I don't think their solution would be appropriate for our style of roleplaying.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 20:57
#2
Hexlash's picture
Hexlash
I knew that you would be the only one who would read...

...that voluminous amount of text xP

But anyways, I see, what you mean by having players make up their own creative points, but I guess to be honest, I kinda tailored this to myself, as I like it when other people are in charge of what happens to my character, coming up with it myself just seems to make it not much of a challenge, and there are no surprises. Thought they're not exactly player creativity, I did say that players could come up with creative things to do that would produce unexpected results. Also, if I were to do an RP, I would use a random generator a lot to create a more un-biased feel. In my time discrepancies, I was referring to the way that people could cover large portions of time, while others are left still explaining a short moment in time. I encountered this problem when I made futile efforts to conjoin Sintag's RP posts in a chronological and relevant timeline.

These are examples taken from that RP thread.

"Hunter acknowledges the unknown guy's nod, then they continue running, when they arrive at a town. "Let's go there, and see what we can get. You can get a better bomb, and I'll upgrade my blaster.""

Presumably, in this situation, they are quite far from town, but their travel is covered quickly with "then they continue running, when they arrive at a town" thus they covered a very large amount of time, while other Knights, such as myself and Archemiday (not going to post our large conversation) conversed. Since they were already so far ahead, we had to lose time doing something to catch up. Better? :S

What I'm just trying to point out, is that by doing such, you prevent other players from being able to have contacted you during that time, and it puts some people at a different ingame time than others.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 21:29
#3
Aekuryi's picture
Aekuryi
a nice grandma to bake more cookies

The Timestamping thing seems like a great idea if it's integrated within the roleplay. I always lose track of time and how much time passes, so it would certainly be a boon and save me a lot of speculation which takes up more time than I'd like to consume. However, I have a feeling that given the freedom of Timestamping, players might try to skew time in their favor, or it just might get messy and disorganized. Despite this, I also feel like it'll be really helpful to some players who might not want to go through the tedious effort to discern what time it is within the roleplay's setting.

In another note, I think people should refrain from recapping other people's posts in their own post. It's just fluff, and doesn't particularly contribute to the post. If it includes character thoughts or commentary, then put said thoughts/commentary in the post itself, and reference back to someone else's post. It'll create a decent flow, so instead of being separate timelines or Points of View, it'll be like a story that tends to switch between players frequently. Touching on another point, third-person is a lot easier to use in roleplaying (from my experience), and would collaborate splendidly with the Anti-Recap method I explained earlier. And while I may seem lazy by saying this, reading through posts with a recap every time is a pain in the [cog], and could be done without. First-person still might work in these kinds of roleplays but might not flow very well.

In terms of GM interaction, enforcing semi-stringent rules early on (i.e. no powerplaying, no OP magical stuff out of nowhere, etc.) could help cut down on how many times a GM has to intervene within the roleplay. The problem is that there's almost always one or two people that tend to deviate from such rules, so there's gonna have to be some form of GM keeping a lookout for discrepancies.

Also, slightly unrelated, but I feel like the "grew up on the streets" biographies are overused way too much. I'm not saying they're bad, but I'm just slightly annoyed with their frequency of appearance and think there should probably some kind of limit (or ban even) on them. Just a suggestion, I'd love to see more creative character backstories. Hell, even something ordinary would be interesting to work with.

Aaaand that's all I have for now.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 21:29
#4
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Ah...

I see now what you mean about time discrepancies. If two players begin an action at about the same in-game time but their actions consume different amounts of time, a discrepancy is generated. Your first solution depends heavily on accurate prediction of other players' posts. If your character wants to travel for 8 hours to town, why shouldn't he do so if everyone else will do likewise? The only reason he wouldn't take all 8 hours in one post would be if other players take substantially less time (or distance) that can't be fudged.

I added "that can't be fudged" because fudging helps solve many of these problems. Maybe one player thinks that "walking to town" involves traveling for miles, but maybe the other player, who is already in town, pretends that the first player is close enough to be visible. As long as nobody actually states how long or large an action is, fudging remains a possible solution.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 21:36
#5
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Ohai Aekuryi!

Hey! Howdy do!

Aside from the problems of calculation & enforcement, the most worrisome problem with timestamping is that it limits fudging (and therefore more interactions & roleplaying), possibly separating alternately-stamped players from each other permanently.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 21:37
#6
Sandwich-Hero's picture
Sandwich-Hero
Thoughts?

I am tired, so you can't bother me to post 9000 lines of text explaining what I think and why, I've read it but I'm too tired to write something lengthy responding to it.

I shall respond to this again tomorrow. Goodnight. I might stay up to watch Sintag's RP though, but my posts won't be very long.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 21:44
#7
Tevokkia's picture
Tevokkia
Hmmm

As I've said on more than one occasion before, how these issues should be approached in any given roleplay should be heavily dependent upon the temperament, preferences, play styles, time constraints, and skill levels of the majority of the players.

As an example: for the passing time, imagine you have five players that like to write lengthy, detailed posts, taking two pages to roleplay something that would take only fifteen minutes in real time because they like to develop their characters through playing out a conversation complete with gestures, small mannerisms, and personal tics. You also have two players who are not the least bit interested in that sort of thing and would rather wander off and explore or get into a fight. Pacing would have to be handled very differently in this game than a game with eight people who want to fight and explore but only two people who want to have lengthy conversations.

Another example: with experience often comes the ability to separate character knowledge from player knowledge. A game that's primarily composed of new or young players will often be better suited to the sort of information delivery you mentioned in the first post, provided you had a mod who was both willing and able to post frequently and micromanage events. More experienced players may be able to handle larger chunks of information and run with whatever their character should already know or realistically be able to find out over the course of the narration. Personally, having been roleplaying for more than 15 years, I get bored and annoyed by micromanaging mods and would much rather play a game where I had a lot of freedom (and at least one character to play off of that felt similarly, as I'm also the person from the last example who can make a novel from a single conversation).

Really, what it's probably best to do is for the mod to flat out say what kind of game they're planning on running ahead of time (this includes whether or not they expect the "party" to be split up, as some of the pacing issues can be mitigated by keeping most of the characters together at any given time). If the mod plans on leading the players around by the nose or they're expecting more combat than character development, players like me need not apply, while another player may thrive on the structure and be interested in the action. I find that a lot of the roleplays here fail because players don't necessarily know what to expect (aside from the face of the Vault changing fairly quickly, so that players may be unable to post for one reason or another and disappear), and you get such a mixed bag of player types that they just aren't compatible. In real life, tabletop gamers who have the option to do so may try gaming with a few different groups before they settle on one that plays the way that they enjoy, and it's no different online.

Tue, 09/03/2013 - 23:00
#8
Feline-Grenadier's picture
Feline-Grenadier
Well...

I think the example you've made is one of my favorite ways to roleplay, since the other site I roleplay on is very active and most of the players are fair.

However, their forums go in a threaded format, contrasting from this forum. I accept your idea of allotting length of time based on activity, although I prefer the first method you described.

That being said, I don't think this site's forums are built for roleplaying as much as it is made for discussions and feedback.

Wed, 09/04/2013 - 05:11
#9
Isekuube's picture
Isekuube
Derp. :3

In Kaijuhunter's RP it is a bit more relaxed, but as soon as the mod ceases action, the entire thread dies.
but as soon as the mod ceases action, the entire thread dies.
the entire thread dies.
dies

Come back, Kaij! D':

Wed, 09/04/2013 - 08:30
#10
Critzer's picture
Critzer
About that time thing

I have never done an roleplay and maybe my opinion will sound quite stupid for that reason. But i have an idea on resolving timestamping and turn resolving.

The creator states he will want volunteers and puts a limit that he must work with at the start to get things flowing. Once that is done, he will state in a post a certain order people will post in and have each person post empty post in that order only saying "reserved". If someone does not do their post in an allotted time, they are skipped and have to wait, kinda like a turn based game with a timer. If someone was having a conversation, action, fight, anything with that skipped character, then the next persons post they can add an action to that player.
Example:
Bob- "So Tom, i heard you mudkips"
Tom- (no Answer and is skipped)
Sam- My char sighs at Bob's fuddle attempt to communicate with Tom.
OR
(finally reaches Bob's turn again) Bob- My char sighs in disappointment as he is ignored by Tom

This can also be played out as the player killing/beating another player due to this pause, the player doing the killing adding in an action that may have led to the skipped chars demise (such as weapon breakage or a handicap listed in the skipped player's bio or something). This would remove a lot of a mod's influence unless he was in that order, where he could be in between each post and say "skip" or add something in if necessary. And if a mod wants to, he could open up for more people to join and slip them into the order sooner or later.

PS:I have brought many marshmallows from me fiery slumber :3
PPS:I hope you understand what i'm saying and point out any faults in it that i didn't catch or address.
PPPS: This method allows both long writers and short writers to interact in an orderly fashion. May be a downer but still is good, and these allotted times are maybe multiple hours, depending on what the mod wants.

Wed, 09/04/2013 - 21:12
#11
Hexlash's picture
Hexlash
Replying frenzy!

@Critzer >:O, YOU'RE BACK?!?!?!?!? But - ahem - about your post, the problem that I find, is that by doing that, it's a bit unfair to those that were absent, what if one person was doing fine, but then they got into a car crash and can't post, so by the time they get back to posting, instead of an exciting RP to greet them, it's their character has died or been neglected? And with a rigid turn based, like Tev stated, it depends on the players, but I don't think many people would enjoy it being so strict, I wouldn't mind trying one though ^^ (And btw, LIGHTING THE SHADOWS, NOW! Sound familiar? ;3)

@Ise, you... Man, you guys just loooovvve, making me stop breathing, don't you? But I agree :)

@Feline you threw me off for a crap long time Vinny... Why did you switch your forum name?

@Tev, oh gosh, you posted on a thread I made! I feel the specialz noaw! But, in all seriousness, I should have mentioned it, but I was sleepy and brain dead, but you are completely right. Every one is different, and it only makes sense that their writing styles and skills would vary. Especially since this forum is not meant to be a Roleplaying place, we obviously have limited players all with greatly varying wants and strengths. I guess it might be too difficult, nah it is in fact impossible to please everyone, that's something you have to remember as a leader. I guess waht you would do then is just ask, asking questions is very vital. If you find out who's interested, and what they're interested in, you'll be able to properly attempt to create compromise and fulfill their requests.

Wed, 09/04/2013 - 21:32
#12
Hexlash's picture
Hexlash
Decided to break up the posts, why? It doesn't matter...

@Sandwich, sleep IS good... I guess :/ Quite debatable really.

@Thin, I guess this is just another one of those "can't win'em all" scenarios. Either you keep it structured, or let it be loosy goosy. Once again(oh gosh, the available things to correct misspelling 'again' @_@), it depends on the players, and really, on how the Mod(s) want to run their RP, a lot of different variables could affect the desired form to counter time inconsistencies.

@Aekuryi... Over 10 million a second, BEAT DAT. Anyways, the recapping I totally agree with, I mean, we all know that it happened, there's no need to repeat it, but some just do it to express what they would have at certain points during it, that they didn't get to, I guess. For the third person, it really seems to be a player choice thing, some prefer third to first and vice versa. I myself prefer third, but tried to use first person, because I do so infrequently. I don't really care about 'the flow' of the story, because, seriously, it's much too hard to turn a RP into a proper story, stuff is just all over the place, and no one really even reads roleplays anyways, it's more so just for the participants. For the rules, I would assume those would be obvious to players, well then again, some are new to it (lul meh) but yeah.

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 21:37
#13
Aekuryi's picture
Aekuryi
the grandmothers are restless do not encourage them

@Hex: It does make sense how people want to recap for personal preference. As for flow, it's not so much as turning it into a collaborative story, it just makes things a bit more organized, so that someone who's joining can catch up without having their brains burst into neurologically induced fires, or someone who missed lots of posts to be able to understand what's going on fairly quickly. I'm also kind of a neat freak, so seeing things in disarray bothers me to some degree each time. Also, I already beat that, about 300 million per second :3

Sun, 09/08/2013 - 09:35
#14
Tevokkia's picture
Tevokkia
@Hexlash

we obviously have limited players all with greatly varying wants and strengths. I guess it might be too difficult, nah it is in fact impossible to please everyone

I've actually got a really good example to illustrate that. Twelve years ago, I met Sol because he was running a tabletop game of Exalted, and a mutual friend dragged me into playing. We had a lot of players come and go at first, but eventually settled down with six players. Here's the breakdown of the group:

Sol: Running the game
Me: Enjoyed long in-character conversations, relationship building, and character development, but didn't care much about combat
Jen: Enjoyed character development and seeing where she could take her relationships, also didn't care much about combat
Christie: New player still getting her bearings; wasn't that into combat but didn't often involve herself in conversations and often forgot what abilities she had
Syn: Was willing to delve into some level of character development, but more interested in combat and seeing how he could use the rules to his advantage
Tina: Newer player who jumped right in and liked a reasonable balance of character moments and combat as long as combat didn't get too bogged down by rules. Tended to be a bit silly.

So you can see right there how Sol wouldn't be able to please everyone all the time. During times that were character-heavy, Jen and I would be happy, Christie and Tina would be okay (although sometimes it was a bit of work to involve them both, as they both tended to have their characters wander off), but Syn would lose patience rather quickly. Sessions that had a lot of combat would put Syn in his element, but Jen and I would be bored most of the time, Christie would get lost, and Tina's attention would flag after a few turns. It took Sol a lot of work to try to vary what we were doing enough that everyone was sort of okay with how the session went, and it didn't always work. At least one person was going to be bored after more than 5 minutes at one thing (especially if their character wasn't involved), and it was usually Syn, since it was a pretty character-heavy game (in fact, most of us were playing several characters at once by the time we split up). Still, the game lasted about 5 years of weekly sessions lasting 3-6 hours before everyone started getting busy and having different priorities.

You CAN make it work with different kinds of play styles, but you need to be able to balance, and not everyone is going to be happy all the time. How you do that will vary as much as your players, and your players need to understand that they aren't the only one that needs to be catered to: it's a cooperative effort, and it's not just on the GM's shoulders to make sure everyone is having fun. Every single player is responsible for that.

(Also, 710 million per second. Neener neener!)

Sun, 09/08/2013 - 13:38
#15
Hexlash's picture
Hexlash
Why. Why CC, why?!

I don't even play Cookie Clicker that much anyways... /e looks away shamefully.

@Tev, you're completely right, but the problem here is that not everyone cooperates, even though that's part of your job as a Roleplayer. But it requires a lot of work on the mod. Another thing to keep in mind, is that Mod's also have their own vision of how the RP wants to go, but yeah... Thanks for your gloriously informative post Tev!

@Aekuryi, I know, I hate it too lol. I prefer it to be organized as well, but of course, you have to collaborate with everyone, and sometimes, you just have to sacrifice and compromise.

Sun, 09/08/2013 - 14:13
#16
Tevokkia's picture
Tevokkia
@Hexlash

Of course mods will have their own vision of how they want the story to go, and some may have events planned months in advance (I have to have everything planned out when I run a game, so I know how that goes). If characters aren't cooperating with the storyline as much as they'd like because they've found it more interesting to explore something else, it's the mod's job to adapt to the situation, whether it be to change their plans or let the characters explore in their chosen direction before circling them back to the intended storyline. If the players are not cooperating by not following rules, initiating excessive PvP in a game that wasn't meant to have it, or generally being pests, then maybe the problem player should not be participating in what is essentially supposed to be a fun, cooperative group activity.

Just because someone applied to the game and their character was accepted doesn't always mean that they need to stay; a mod should never be afraid to ask a player to leave if they're being disruptive to the story and to the enjoyment of the other players, just as a GM in any irl game is perfectly reasonable in asking a disruptive player not to show up for the next session. It's their thread and their story in the end, and the power does belong to them ... as is the responsibility to not abuse it. A GM/mod abusing their power to the point that they're the problem player is going to find themselves without characters.

Sun, 09/08/2013 - 14:18
#17
Hexlash's picture
Hexlash
You write so much!

I never thought about it that way, but you're once again right :3

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