Spiral Knights - ★Guide★: Equipment Sets That Maximize Your Power

★Guide★: Equipment Sets That Maximize Your Power

90 replies [Last post]

Wed, 09/04/2013 - 21:14

Lord-Patches

Hello Everyone!

Welcome to the equipment guide for new through expert players, written by yours truly, Lord-Patches. This guide will explain exactly what items that you should build to become the most powerful knight possible, and best of all, not break your budget! Below I will explain how bonus stats work, what types of weapons there are, as well as what different damage types do. Here is a link to my guide:

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~ Guide: Equipment Sets That Maximize Your Power
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=173804495

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Please post what you thought of the guide below in this forum. I am always looking to get your ideas and the bumps will help this post stay on the first page. Thanks!

Also, If you guys are into Spiral Knight video's I have begun recording and posting content on Youtube. Here is a link to my guild channel:

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~ Is A Vampire - Youtube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVV2oBLMOuxNZ2u32n4SOLQ/featured

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Wed, 09/04/2013 - 22:07

Flowchart

to save everyone else the

to save everyone else the trouble, his guide is basically "use chaos and swiftstrike/bts for everything"

Although, I don't think it's going to help new players much as they might have trouble surviving in chaos.
And, anyone good enough to be able to use it despite its drawbacks already is using it (or at least knows about it), and doesn't need the guide.

Wed, 09/04/2013 - 22:34

Demonicsothe

i need to gripe

Should probably be in arsenal or new recruits

Most active guild?

You can't call a guide maximizing power and then advocating glacius over combuster. Unless you also want to add separate armour pieces as alternatives.

You're missing vortex.

Uv's are not exactly affordable unless one gets lucky.

Please don't use Polaris as a gun for elemental damage.

Using AP with chaos set means you have quite a but of wasted stats against undead, adding to the fact that AP charges are not effective. There goes half the armour bonus.

Wed, 09/04/2013 - 22:35

Demonicsothe

Double post

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 00:26

Theirillusion

UVs are cheap lol.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 01:39

Glittertind

You could have just written a guide on chaos set, really.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 04:44

Alice-In-Pyroland

I can help you rewrite this

I can help you rewrite this more concisely;

Use Chaos

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 06:46

Lord-Patches

wow look at all you haters

wow look at all you haters hating on Chaos Set.

@Demonicsothe:
"You can't call a guide maximizing power and then advocating glacius over combuster. Unless you also want to add separate armour pieces as alternatives."
Glacius and Combuster have the same base damage. The damage only varies when using the charge attack. You will get more damage out of glacius in situations such as fighting trees and trojans as you will be able to freeze them inplace and get behind them without wasting time (and DPS) dancing around them).

"Uv's are not exactly affordable unless one gets lucky."
The highest UV that i recommend is Medium which is incredibly cheap in comparison to the power or defense that players will get from saving for them. I wish someone had recommended UVs to me when I started playing a few yeras ago so that I did not waste all my time and money building items that could have easily been stronger.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 06:49

Lord-Patches

@Echoez, Weedalot, and

@Echoez, Weedalot, and Flowchart:
If all the information you got out of reading my guide was "Use Chaos Set" then you must not have actually read it. It is full of information that many new players and also some veteran players may not know.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 07:26

Maeko

It's not hating the Chaos Set

It's not hating the Chaos Set (even though it shouldn't have been buffed THAT much), it's pointing out that Chaos set being the best offensive piece of armor at this point and Swiftstrike, BTS, and the modules are already known by basically Everyone.

EDIT

And as much as I dislike the Brandishes, Combuster is better for pure damage. And since you suggest the Shivermist as a main bomb-snrk- Glacius is utterly worthless.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 07:34

#10

Bopp

cross-post

You also have a thread running about this guide in the Arsenal forum. I've posted my comments there. Please do not post multiple copies of any thread. Your guide is nice, but it's not important enough to our community to occupy two forums.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 08:19

#11

Demonicsothe

Lumbers are best dealt with

Lumbers are best dealt with regular attacks. Why spend time charging against lumbers.

Trojans are best dealt with a toothpick. Spamming glacius on Trojans is rather lame.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 09:19

#12

Little-Juances

Make a note on top, then just specify only the weapons part for each class.
This is what I read over and over, correct me if I'm wrong before hating criticism:

Helm: Chaos Cowl (UV: Fire or Shock = Medium)
Chest: Chaos Cloak (UV: Fire or Shock = Medium)
Shield: Swiftstrike Buckler

(glacius, flourish, blah blah blah. Also try BTS)

This set is extremely powerful as well as cost efficient. The only downside is the negative status effects that come with the Chaos Set, however, these can be somewhat counteracted by getting the recommended UVs which are fairly inexpensive.

Helm: Chaos Cowl (UV: Fire or Shock = Medium)
Chest: Chaos Cloak (UV: Fire or Shock = Medium)
Shield: Swiftstrike Buckler

(polaris, blitz, blah blah blah)

This set is extremely powerful as well as cost efficient. The only downside is the negative status effects that come with the Chaos Set, however, these can be somewhat counteracted by getting the recommended UVs which are fairly inexpensive.

Helm: Chaos Cowl (UV: Fire or Shock = Medium)
Chest: Chaos Cloak (UV: Fire or Shock = Medium)
Shield: Swiftstrike Buckler

(shards, shivermist, blah blah blah)

This set is extremely powerful as well as cost efficient. The only downside is the negative status effects that come with the Chaos Set, however, these can be somewhat counteracted by getting the recommended UVs which are fairly inexpensive.

That's repeating information and makes the page 2bytes bigger :P
It wouldn't be bad if you just moved it to the top.

Now do you understand what we were saying?

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 09:51

#13

Retequizzle

There are better gunner sets

There are better gunner sets out there that don't use Chaos and are arguably better based off of what you've recommended weapon-wise. And if you're going to recommend the Dark Retribution for the bomber set in any capacity, you can't claim it's economically cheap either, since it pretty much requires someone (be it the player or the player's friend) to buy OCH off of Steam. On top of that, your loadouts emphasize the use of four weapon slots and two trinket slots to be used, which also isn't incredibly cost efficient since it requires CE to purchase that from the Supply Depot, or getting lucky with promo boxes. Sure, you increase your survivability, but unless you're grinding at least a stratum a day, you won't get enough of a profit to justify purchasing them in the first place.

Anyway, given your suggestions, we can assume the player has access to OCH since I'm not going to argue the economic standpoint any further - instead, I'll point out that the player would be better suited with the Perfect Mask of Seerus, partly because it compensates better for the UVs you suggested without having to force the player to buy/roll the piece themselves. It has better normal and elemental defense than the Chaos Cowl at the cost of giving up Damage: Maximum, which is negligible for most guns in the game save for Nova/Umbra and Blitz, all of which are still entirely usable without damage buffs.

Hell, just off of armor bonuses, assuming we keep the Chaos Cloak, gives the following:

Perfect Mask - +2 CTR Guns, +1 ASI Guns
Chaos Cloak - +2 CTR All, +2 Damage All
Swiftstrike - +3 ASI All

At this point you can choose to go without damage modules in order to keep it cost efficient, since a +2 for damage buffs with pretty much any gun is good enough for Normal/Advanced, which is what this guide was presumably catered towards. It also gives them a bit more damage/status padding without the necessity for UVs to cover it, thus opening up more options.

If you want to maximize your ability to get shots off as opposed to worry about how much damage it's gonna do, you can swap your cloak for Nameless and get more elemental defense as well as more freeze resistance, which is probably more likely to get you killed than shock or fire as a gunner.

Perfect Mask - +2 CTR Guns, +1 ASI Guns
Nameless Poncho - +2 ASI Guns
SSB - +3 ASI All

Right there, you have an ASI Max for any gun without a single UV, a hefty resistance to Elemental Damage, some sort of coverage for 3 different status effects (+4 Fire, +4 Shock, +2 Freeze), you have a +2 CTR for any gun, which is good enough for any level 10 gun regardless of what it is (if we're going to argue for Blitz Needle, the ASI Bonus compensates here as well since it speeds up the reload animation after your charge attack if I recall correctly), and you haven't even touched a trinket yet. The best part is that you can drop Swiftstrike entirely for a beefier shield and still maintain an ASI High rating for any gun, which is the main focus for you gunner set presumably. Dread Skelly Shield actually works well since it resists Shadow damage, as well as Poison and Freeze, which is pretty annoying in any Fiend/Undead level, but there's a lot of options.

For your sword or whatever you choose for a backup weapon, I disagree with the use of Final Flourish for a gunner set, since it makes dealing with Constructs and Jellies a [wheel]- T3 Jelly Knights are pretty fast for gunners (and pack a punch with their piercing damage), as are the mecha-knights, the latter of which can block incoming bullets for a moment. If you're looking for an end-all-beat-all solution, as much as I hate to admit it, the Leviathan Blade does a good job of being a fallback weapon to deal with mobs of any kind in a pinch. For raw damage output, the Warmaster Rocket Hammer is bar-none the best option though, and with ASI High on it, you can usually rattle of more damage with that close range than you can with any other weapon. If all else fails, get an Acheron or Gran Faust, both are reasonably fast with ASI High and both work with different types of crown control - Acheron for leading enemies in a single direction, Gran Faust for hitting a wide area in front of you and knockback on the second swing.

Lastly, for crowd control, the Shivermist is okay if you have mobs spread out sporadically, but if you're funneling into a single area, the Voltaic Tempest does a better job of shock-locking groups and causing residual damage just from shock alone (give it a shot the next time you're doing RJP or FSC, it works). The only things to worry about then are Gremlins and Beasts, neither of which are very annoying to deal with in general.

As far as the bomber loadout goes, I'm not a bomber so I'm not going near it with a ten-foot pole but it also seems flawed based off of what I do know about bombing.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:36

#14

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

So, what do I do once I have all this fancy gear? Grind Vana some more?

Can't I just enjoy the game with the weapons I like and the shield I want and armor with the bonuses I want? What if I like the Dread Venom Striker and the Callahan? (Which I do) What if I prefer getting both DR and GF and then slime max for C42?

This isn't at you, guide maker, but to all of those "MAX YOUR DPS!" players. Where's the fun? I can kill stuff in one hit less, but I have to grind for it, right? Once I have triple maxes, then what? For what? You're removing both the challange and getting yourself as prime targets for becoming crybabies if/when Chaos gets nerfed somehow.

Also, where in your guide to you mention Salamander? I love the Slime bonus, and I'm still resistant to every freakin status out there as any other player. What about DVS? It's DPS is high and it's versatility is also equally high. Where's Callahan? It's a good, party-friendly gun with the fast speed and the stun. (The only stunning 5* in the game, btw!) Where is Vortex? I want to trap those enemies for my friend's hammers. Where's Ash of Agni? I want to fry my enemies without disrupting party members! Where's FoV? I want my immunity to freeze!

Sorry, I'm in a rant mood. It's just that this LOOKS like a LD player's info. You don't really need aaaaalll those bonuses. Also these weapons sound like for soloing. I'd rather see more people in parties.

/rant

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:13

#15

Battlegrinder

@Retequizzle

That's the same thing I thought when I read the guide. Chaos is certainly effective, but its not the end all solution that he tends to portray it as. His proposed setups are ok, but they are not the cheap, economical solutions he try to imply they are.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 14:05

#16

Traevelliath

IMO, you honestly don't need to get as many universal MAX bonuses. Chaos Set is best used if you are either going hybrid, or if you want the universal CTR because Chaos is the ONLY set that gives a universal CTR bonus.

I've always hated when people mention the Chaos set when theory crafting. Chaos set is always going to be the best theoretical armor, but practically speaking you really shouldn't 100% forsake defense for offense. Theoretically, you shouldn't be getting hit because theoretically it's not that hard to dodge/evade every enemy of the game (in the eyes of a lot of veterans). In practice, I have met only 1 person who is able to do a full t3 run without getting hit once (More specifically, he did the Gauntlet in Proto Armor. On youtube he has a VERY old video of him doing FSC in Proto Armor). You will get hit, you will get afflicted by a status at some point.

Taking an example from your guide, this if your gun set:
Armor:
Helm: Chaos Cowl (UV: Fire or Shock = Medium)
Chest: Chaos Cloak (UV: Fire or Shock = Medium)
Shield: Swiftstrike Buckler
Trinket 1: Quick Draw Module
Trinket 2: Elite Trueshot Module

...

Stats with the above set, level 10 weapons, and the recommended UVs:
Guns: CTR=Maximum, ASI=Maximum, Damage=Maximum
Swords: CTR=Maximum, ASI=High, Damage=Very High
Bombs: CTR=Maximum, Damage=Very High

You have forsaken just about every defense possible. The only defenses you have are the statuses you are able to get UVs for (which, btw, are probably the two most expensive armor UVs possible on an armor set where said UVs are in very high demand). Your shield is Swifty. I personally love the gal with her gorgeous curves and shinning presence, with that alluring swirl and... I forgot where I was going with that... Oh now I remember: Swifty is a fragile girl. She can't take that many hits! So you don't even have a shield to fall back on. At least the BTS can take a bit of punishment from non-piercing attacks. I will admit that as a gunner, you can sacrifice defense a bit more than a swordsman. So I usually don't complain when you put Swifty in gunner loadouts... but most people cannot handle Swift+Chaos.

And what are you getting in return? In this instance, the sword CTR max, the sword ASI high, the sword damage VH, the bomb CTR max, and the bomb damage VH are all wasted. So you're getting your guns CTR max, ASI max, and damage max. What if you went like... Mask of Seerus and Shadowsun Slicker. Those two alone (assuming heat lvl 10) will give you damage med, CTR VH, and ASI low. If you throw on Swifty you get ASI VH. Throw in a damage trinket and you have damage VH. You can even throw in a second damage trinket to get that coveted damage max. Then you can fill in UVs where you see fit... Like for example, you really don't need ASI med on a Blitz Needle. So swap that for a CTR med UV, and an ASI med UV on your Antiguas, and whatever you want for your alchemers.

That's the other thing I don't like about the guide. You just aim for blanket bonuses overall, instead of matching the bonuses with the weapons. If you're spamming an Alchemer's Charge, then you don't need to get ASI med on it. A Blitz Needle doesn't need an ASI boost, it just needs damage and CTR. Antiguas don't need CTR max.

Going back to the Theroy vs Practicality argument: There are few practical differences between a Max bonus and a VH bonus. I personally think that a Max bonus is either out of convenience (For example, Skolver+BTS in a pierce theme level), situational at best, for perfectionists, or for people with too much money.

And finally, I think you should just remove the "not break your budget" part of it. Most UV's are cheap, but the UV's you list in your guide are incredibly expensive. Hell, high level trinkets are expensive to make.

I think a real challenge would be writing a guide that does not rely on UVs and/or Chaos (and/or Mad Bomber) to get similar results...

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 14:36

#17

Battlegrinder

@Traevelliath

Holy #&@*, I thought I was the only guy on the forums who wasn't lying prostate before chaos (must....not...make...40K....joke). Not that I hate the chaos set, but isn't the super armor people claim it is.

I see the "max out ASI and CTR" thing a lot. I think its a side effect of sword users switching over to guns and assuming that gun charge/attack mechanics are the same as sword mechanics.

Regarding your last sentence, you can make a pretty nasty sword set with full snarlbox, 2 CTR trinkets, and an ASI perk (and it only gets better if you gave ASI UVs). With the new perks, you can max out any 2 skills if you wear pure armor, and hybrid builds can get pretty strong too.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 16:11

#18

Krns

I lol'd at green-twister in

I lol'd at green-twister in the screenshot.
What an infiltration.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 20:53

#19

Traevelliath

@Battlegrinder: I'd call you a heretic for not making such a joke for the greater good.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 23:28

#20

Zeddy

"Chaos set is always going to be the best theoretical armor, but practically speaking you really shouldn't 100% forsake defense for offense."

Let me stop you right there: Chaos is plenty defensive. It gives +5 health and plenty of normal/elemental defence. A true glass cannon setup would be cyclops cap and fencing jacket.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 23:37

#21

Odd-Look

Lol zeddy. I gotta try that one day.

Thu, 09/05/2013 - 23:47

#22

Lord-Patches

Hey Everyone, I just wanted

Hey Everyone, I just wanted to thank you all for your support and feedback. I have just updated my guide to change and add the things that you said that you want to see and also made sure to clearify that Chaos Set is not the only set in the game, it is just the one i recommend as it can be used for Swords, Guns, Bombs, or Hybrid. Its stats are powerful but if you dont like it then there are other options. Best of luck to you all in the spiral :D

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 05:24

#23

Bopp

still no MSI, perks

You took some suggestions into account. But you still have no mention of movement speed increase or sprite perks. It would be very easy to mention those --- although the MSI issue undermines your central thesis that "Chaos is the answer". At the very least, you could recommend that people use the MSI+2 sprite perk.

And I'm not even concerned anymore with the larger suggestions that I made, about covering too much material with no explanation, etc. I can understand why you'd dodge that critique --- it would require significant rewriting. But mentioning MSI and sprite perks seems like a no-brainer.

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 05:56

#24

Traevelliath

@Zeddy: Yes, Chaos provides so much defense, that's why people take it around EVERYWHERE they go.

5 health is a peck on the cheek in T3, IF you have the proper defense. If you don't (like say, vs Zombies), 5 health is a fart in your general direction.

A Slag Walker's morning breath will take away more than 5 health if you don't have fire resist.

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 07:13

#25

Battlegrinder

Pretend I wrote something clever here

The updates are a good start, though you still place a focus on the economics of your set despite the cost of getting a UV'ed chaos set. I'd also point out that with the new perks, your bomber set could actually be swapped out for volcanic/bombastic demo suit with damage/CTR trinkets and perks, resulting in a set that's just as strong as chaos but without the stat weaknesses. You'd lose out on gun and sword damage/CTR, but those shouldn't be your focus if you're a bomber.

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 07:30

#26

Traevelliath

I think you still need more details and explanations. For example, the Antigua vs Alchemer argument. Alchemers are best for clearing large mobs of enemies at a time, while Antiguas are best at single target focus fire and for finishing off weakened enemies. As a gunner, your primary weapon should be an Alchemer, while an Antigua should be a secondary weapon ONLY if you have the weapon slots available.

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 09:04

#27

Lord-Patches

@Bopp thank you for your

@Bopp thank you for your constructive critisism. If you read through the guide I did indeed mention sprite perks and recommended MSI in my bomber guide.

@Traeveliath: While i understand where you are coming from that information is not 100% true and thus I can not add it to the guide. In the hands of a seasoned gunslinger an alchemer is still much higher DPS on single target mobs than an Antigua. But thank you for your input, I always appreciate constructive comments

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 09:34

#28

Bopp

oops, sorry

I must have been looking at an old version, or maybe I just missed it. I do see now that you included MSI (only for bombers, but that is your editorial decision) and perks. Sorry for my mistake.

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 09:39

#29

Lord-Patches

no worries Bopp, you are

no worries Bopp, you are amoungst the players who's feedback I have found most useful and thank you for that

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 09:45

#30

Traevelliath

@Lord-Patches:

While i understand where you are coming from that information is not 100% true and thus I can not add it to the guide. In the hands of a seasoned gunslinger an alchemer is still much higher DPS on single target mobs than an Antigua. But thank you for your input, I always appreciate constructive comments

However, you then rate the Antigua and Alchemer as the exact same in your guide, and say pick one based on your personal preference. I'm saying an Alchemer is by far the ideal primary weapon choice for a gunslinger, and by the sound of it you're implying the same. Thus, because the guide is about maximizing damage, you should at least MENTION that Alchemers will out-damage Antiguas.

Also, I completely disagree with Gunslingers using a Polaris as a DPS weapon on anything other than Gun Puppies, but that's another can of worms.

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 10:23

#31

Lord-Patches

@Traeveliath: I do agree that

@Traeveliath: I do agree that it could use some clarification. I have updated the section and I believe readers will find it more informative. Thank you

Fri, 09/06/2013 - 11:32

#32

Retequizzle

Also, a simple note: If you

Also, a simple note:

If you can hit a stationary mob and/or boss (Royal Jelly, Twins, or Shadow Lair counterparts for more context) with a charged Sentenza/Argent Peacemaker respectively, there's a lot more DPS potential there than an alchemer with the same bonuses (5 bullets at normal damage, charged shot at 2x damage which hits between 2-4 times depending on the enemy, over a span of about 2.5 seconds). For reference, a charged Argent Peacemaker can drop a Rawrmulus Twin even with a party of four on Normal/Advanced. I haven't tested it on Elite because I've been busy, but I know it works for up to 3 players with max damage and CTR ratings. I would imagine it would still be fairly consistent with two players in a Shadow Lair IMF run as well.

That, and it's entirely possible to AP/Nova juggle if you're looking to maintain a stream of damage and only want to have one of each type of gun. Yeah, you could argue that it's two pure-elemental weapons and that it's shenanigans if it's a beast/gremlin theme depth, but all that does is make me wonder why you'd bring those guns to that sort of depth anyway. Eventually it brings into context that while most loadouts being suggested (including my tweaks from before) lend themselves to a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none mentality, you can just as easily have an "effective" set focused around one damage type, such as the aforementioned AP/Nova suggestion.

/twocents

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 16:10

#33

Lord-Patches

made a few more improvements

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 17:38

#34

Voza-Il

I read the main points

I read the main points (recommended armor sets for all 3 classes).

Chaos for everything....

I agree that it may be the best, but depending on the player, other sets may be better.

For example, Using Justifier/Nameless gunner armor can outdps dmg armor (chaos). I know I probably shoupdn't, but to relate it to lockdown, I did 16k dmg as a dmg max gunner once, while an ASI gunner did 15k with some dmg bonus as well. Dmg seems like the way to go in the clockworks though.

For bombers, chaos definitely fits. Dmg and ctr....with no UVs of course.

For swordies, chaos is best as well.

It appears that vhaos is best for every single class, which is prettty dumb. Sadly, no other sets really compare in PvE. Since OOO nerfed monsters to tge level of a mentally challenged donkey, any idiot can get chaos and beat anything.

Your guide is very helpful to noobs, but also highlights the sad truth that this game is getting easy enough for anyone to play and not die with just one armor set. So sad....

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 18:08

#35

Bopp

dubious

For example, Using Justifier/Nameless gunner armor can outdps dmg armor (chaos).

This is doubtful. The percentage increase in damage, from each level of damage bonus, is larger than the percentage increase in attack speed, from each level of ASI. So damage bonus increases DPS more.

Of course, DPS is not the only statistic to consider in this game. Damage bonus might increase your kills per second dramatically, or not at all, whereas ASI and CTR always increase your kills per second by a small amount.

Mon, 09/09/2013 - 15:20

#36

Lord-Patches

@Voza: You say that

@Voza: You say that Justice/Nameless can out DPS Chaos set. That is untrue as my recommended sets with Chaos will get your ASI/Damage/CTR all to Maximum and thus it is impossible to out DPS it, you can only tie the damage

Tue, 09/10/2013 - 08:46

#37

Demonicsothe

Asi and ctr tends to be

Asi and ctr tends to be independent of each other. Sure, asi can speed up your charges by reducing the time it takes between the swing or shooting into a charge. If you are using the asi part of the set, you aren't using the ctr part. Yes, you could be more versatile at when to use which type of attack. But as a cost you are weaker in any area with a status.

I haven't seen many people use antiguas as a main damage gun if they're using a full gun set. From my experience with alchemers, kiting a mob is more effective when you are close to them, so you can control the direction of their attacks and position them for the best bounces. And then there's the occasional hole inside the mob that you can weave through while shooting to get the ridiculous bounces off. My point is, its extremely risky to do this until you learn the fine details of each attack. Such as, the exact area that the attack covers, how much the enemies move before and after it, how long it takes for them to recover from the hit, and how to trigger each attack. For example, a zombie swipe takes the zombie a half square or less forward. Meaning you can be stuck at its face while its swinging, then slip past it as it swipes.

Don't get me wrong, I use the chaos set often. I'll switch it out for danger missions like c42 and heart of ice, but that's about it besides heating. It's just that this set is harder to use than any other. I realize that you said this would be economical. And from a crafting point of view, yes. You advise 1 set of armour and 2 shields, one of which is only 3*. It is cheap compared to other alternatives. But it does require a fair bit of skill. None of that you talked about in your guide.

Also might want to recommend a shadow shield for bomber.

Tue, 09/10/2013 - 11:48

#38

Writhes

I use the chaos set. It is a

I use the chaos set. It is a difficult set to use for melee due to its low defenses although refined players can still manage to do this. If a beginner is going to approach the chaos set then it should be for a gunner.

Chaos, Swiftstrike, polaris, electron vortex, and two gun trinkets is basically the ultimate rapemachine combo even for beginners.

Tue, 09/10/2013 - 23:20

#39

Lord-Patches

Thank you for the feedback

Thank you for the feedback Demonicsothe. I will review the guide and see if I feel there are any changes that I want to make based on that feedback (I will probably add a Shadow Shield recomendation). Also the chaos set is a bit risker to use due to the negative resists, however the set does not get any negative resists until 5*, where players will hopefully had plently of practice avoiding damage and dealing with status ailments. Good feedback, thank you.

Wed, 09/11/2013 - 01:07

#40

Kamishinlnoyari

/applaud Autofire

You said what I was about to post.

¿WHERE'S THE CHALLENGE?

Wed, 09/11/2013 - 09:24

#41

Demonicsothe

Just reiterating what I said in the other thread

Magic set has no offensive bonuses until the 5*. Magic set has status resists until you upgrade it into chaos, at which point your net difference in status resist is pretty large, from resisting to being weak.

Wed, 09/11/2013 - 17:13

#42

Lord-Patches

@Demonicsothe The point that

@Demonicsothe The point that I was making is that you can progress through the entire game with the lower forms of Chaos that have no megative resists, during which time you will increase your game skills and be prepared to deal with the negative status resists of 5* Chaos. You are not merely thrown to the wolves with negative status resists as a brand new player. So this set is useable for brand new players and vanguards alike

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 04:38

#43

Viconaut

i dont think people notice this... and it needs to be considered

im just going to say what i said to someone else about challenge mode and how glass cannon is OP. i think it fits well and needs to be heard more.
YES they hit harder, though more often than not, ESPECIALLY when it comes to new players chaos can be a HUGE waste of time. some people just arent meant for it and would be much better off and even do more damage in almost any other equipment

people that run around trying to brute through combat tend to be life sinks,( the guys no one would heart res, back when res system was cool) the people with no SoL on hand, unlike those that walk around with hundreds. these are the people that wear full chaos/glass cannon sets and end up doing less dps than the average/lowest knight in the group. in any decently challenging situation full glass cannon is no walk in the park to make viable. (i am full glass cannon i would know) if you get hit ONCE, with shock or fire, your impressive DPS falls to zero while you run around shielding and dodging for your life until effects wear off. (unless you have a pill obviously) for unskilled glass cannons their dps can easily slips behind the more well rounded knight's lower but steady dps. they pay a much higher price for their mistakes, and if too many are made their DPS drops to lowest in the group while they run around recovering from them.

but even IF all that mattered was pure dmg and how fast you could deal it, groups would OR at least should still be hesitant to bring in a glass cannon (or multiples) they hadn't played with already. its just so easy for us to do more harm than help

you see glass cannons either shine or fall completely flat on their faces often in arena/ danger rooms and not so much if at all in a casual floor of the clockworks. of course DPS seems highest when youre one shotting 3 or so mobs at a time with a triglav. but if that same knight isn't at least "good" in a tense/crowded situation like the last stage of arena, then his role choice is hurting the group more than anything. i almost want to say that in order to make full glass cannon worth using (and worth it for a group to have you) requires you to be an above average player. you have to get in as many if not more attacks than the next guy while making half the amount of mistakes or less, otherwise your lack of defense easily forces a higher downtime than your dps can make up/account for

i am not saying "I AM THE GREATEST GLASS CANNON IN THE WORLD" and that i am unmatched in my glass cannon ability. but i am very confident that i make my role a positive addition to a group and not a negative. we all have our days where we are dubbed good, great and amazing! to friends and strangers alike. we also all have our bad days and of course ive limped through an arena here and there. but for the most part its where i excel. each GC has their own style, combos and techniques as the rest of the builds/players in the game do, but as a long time user of the GC and having went through those bad days and the learning process in the beginning i know first hand just how easy it is to really damage the over all group performance. its a fine line between making a group either 4/4 complete or 3/4 +1 upon your arrival

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 07:06

#44

Quaquonfaes

When you said equipment sets

When you said equipment sets that maximize your power I thought you have many sets that give max for one of each special bonuses.

Like, most asi, most msi, most ctr, not just your favourite set.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 08:29

#45

Lord-Patches

@viconaut you say:"people

@viconaut you say:
"people that run around trying to brute through combat tend to be life sinks,( the guys no one would heart res, back when res system was cool) the people with no SoL on hand, unlike those that walk around with hundreds. these are the people that wear full chaos/glass cannon sets and end up doing less dps than the average/lowest knight in the group"

I use chaos set and have over 400 unused sparks of life that I have found myself. Just because someone is smart enough to maximize their damage potential doesn't mean that they are some dumb "brute". Your made up stereotype is just that, made up. Most people who plan out their gear with the knowledge that I provide in my guild are quite smart and I would bet money that they die less than people who don't plan their gear.

Chaos Set is actually not really a glass cannon set either, especially if you can afford fire or shock medium like i suggest (which costs like 3 vana runs worth of crowns to afford these medium UVs = 1 hour of gameplay). Yes Chaos Set has 5 negative status resists, yet only 2 of the 5 actually deal any damage to you (Shock and Fire) and the negative resist is only medium. If a player gets 1 of the UVs i recommend then they really only have 1 negative status resist that can be counter acted with the bonus from battle sprite.

@Ellthan the recommended sets provide Maximum for ALL (ASI/CTR/Damage) not just one of them

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 13:01

#46

Demonicsothe

I'm being picky here

But I've never seen a 20 minute vana run. At least not solo. I find it unlikely to do it in 20minutes unless its a full party where everyone is concentrated on speed running it. Skipping mobs and such. Last time I attempted to do a speed run fsc, but I lost focus and started killing things that I didn't need to. It came out to be 6k at the end, plus the tokens that vana gives. Ignoring the stuff that I did kill, probably slightly less than 6k and 3k on the tokens.

Speaking out of my metal rear here, but how much are medium uv's worth? I have absolutely no idea on uv market prices, I only dabbled in recipes. 3 full vana runs is about 12k each, considering tokens, which comes to 36k. But you technically need 30 tokens in order to cash in on it. That's 10 runs. And with only this much crowns, you can't mean a uv from punching. This mean's you'll have to be buying them on a magic set already. What do you suggest the player to use while running fsc then? Because if they craft a chaos, then buy another magic set with uvs to craft into chaos, that means your sinking 2 armour sets worth into 1 set that you'll use. Not exactly efficient. And if you aren't crafting up to the 5* to farm in, then your effectiveness is stunted while you acquire the funds to obtain a better set, at a later time.

Freeze is a dangerous status as well. Being freezelocked by anything is bad.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 14:25

#47

Lord-Patches

@Demonicsothe You have never

@Demonicsothe You have never seen a 20 minute vana run??? Perhaps you should try Chaos Set...

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 21:57

#48

Demonicsothe

So i poked around on the intarnets

And I found a duo run that did fsc under 20 minutes, skipping most enemies. The video was from June this year, so before the massive update we had a little while ago. The coordination involved was simply the carrying of totems/sprites and water. All well and good, but my points still stand. You are skipping mobs, and thus skipping crowns. I suppose you can make an argument for just running tokens in order to vendor. But in that case, you might as well go do normals instead and run it even faster at the cost of even less crowns.

Not to mention this all requires actual coordination and optimal gear on everyone. Which brings me back to my question. Are you advising people to get uv's on the set the same way you advise them to use chaos, or is it an optional thing? You suggest them to get it, you didn't say you had to get those uv's. But I'm drawing a parallel between that and how you suggest players to use chaos, not definately have to use it. And if they are to get the suggested uv's, then should they buy those uv's before or after crafting a chaos set?

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 22:53

#49

Viconaut

i wasn't trying to bash you

i wasn't trying to bash you or your guide. i like the guide. i was kinda bummed at the comment of "to save everyone the trouble, use chaos swiftstrike/btw everything.

thats great that you are someone that can use glass cannon effectively, i can too as well as many others and i love it. but i wasn't bashing the set or the people that use them for glass cannon builds, just stating that some people cant use them effectively and that they arent as OP as everyone seems to think. but i hardly think i "made up" a stereo type, and i certainly didn't say at any point that anyone using it is a dumb brute. the people that are brutes and leeroy jenkins around are those people and play that way regardless of what sets they wear, i dont know why you took that out of what i said, but i wasnt labeling players and or their gameplay based on the sets they wear.

my only goal was to defend chaos in that its not OP and requires skill to use effectively with certain builds. it was directed more at the negative comments in the thread and not at you, mostly. hope you didn't misunderstand completely and take all the wrong things out of what i wrote, and hope i didn't write so poorly as to cause such misunderstanding but ill look through and see if i need to edit, i was pretty out of it when i typed that. just tired of seeing people say that any nub can go glass cannon/ chaos and have the best dps evar because its so OP

my idea of glass cannon is a complete set that gives damage increase at every point/slot and has no resistance defense to make up for what chaos takes away. if you can get through vana without spending more than youre auto revive than you are qualified to use it all the time without being a burden. but in both posts, everything is just my opinion and is not meant to bash anyone or what they wear

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 06:43

#50

Lord-Patches

@Viconaut: Thank you for the

@Viconaut:

Thank you for the clarification and my apologies if my response seemed defensive. For some reason there are many trolls who are just hating on the fact that Chaos is the most powerful set (in terms of offense). They seem to feel the need to bash my guide for the sole reason that I recommend that people use the only armor in the game that a majority of players admit is overpowered and by far the best set to use with multiple weapon types.

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★Guide★: Equipment Sets That Maximize Your Power