Spiral Knights - Make SK one of those "Major games"

Make SK one of those "Major games"

29 replies [Last post]

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 02:08

Xtweeterx

You know what I'm talking about. The games with commercials on TV with full blown action packed animation scenes and saying "over millions of players" and "join for free at (insert website link here) (rated (age rating here).

Do that, except make the commercial scene... Believable and realistic like a good 1980-2006 movie or something.

Put ads on various websites that seem to fit (Such as game review websites like GameSpot),

A little bit of action-ness is okay. Such as a simple "Obtain powerful weapons and armor."

KEEP EVERYONE TREATED EQUALLY AS THE WAY THEY ARE. I'll explain that in "Premium Membership" in the DO NOT section.

(will think of more. Mind blank)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DO NOT

Go all action style with a hyperactive narrator like a few game commercials if not other commercials. Like my daddy once said: "Too much of anything can kill you".

Take the same route EA did. For those who don't know, I'm talking about pale, effortless products that have few sequels with barely anything new. *cough* CALL OF DUTY *cough*. If you still don't get it, look here: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/electronic-arts-ea

Take the same path RuneScape did. (from personal experience) As in including the grandmother of all MMO immersion destroyers: PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I never spent $6.00USD there as I thought there was too much for me to do, and the new F2P content was REALLY scarce, and getting duller by the minute which resulted in my quitting in late 2010. However, I've had rank 1 premium membership on Roblox since 2009 (see here http://web.roblox.com/User.aspx?ID=2184217). In the wrong way premium membership for "exclusive things" can entirely kill a MMO's community (Save for people who bought CE with real money which is what I've never done). One last prime example is that a recent recruit in my guild (for 3 months now. Name and gender will be anonymous, but we got to know each-other and have fun (DON'T GET THE WRONG IDEA)) said [gender here] got both the starter battle, AND guardian's armor packs... I only got OCH. I guess spending $25.00-$50.00+ on SK like that IS okay if you're that addicted to it (which I am, but as I've said, I only have OCH), but other than that it's almost not worth it to me (Darn Plasmatech demo set). I already spent $80 worth of Steam cards on TF2 with my hard-earned allowance (Sorry for the hypocrisy) and don't plan to go any higher.

Make a butt-ton of DownLoadable Content. From my viewpoint, any game at all can have a MAXIMUM of 5 DLCs (maybe 3). I'm talking about that one Halo game (as an example) that had craploads of DLC endings (I forgot what Halo game that ones), and not to forgot the previously coughed CoD.

Make any of the above just to reap players of their money. VALVe (if you really sink that much money into TF2), Halo, and EA [seem] like prime examples of that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If OOO and SEGA put mind and effort into that (in the off chance that occurs), they'll both have a great future ahead of them, and make some serious $$$$$

EDIT: Instead of flamewars, please keep criticisms constructive. Discouragement is UN-neccesary. Same goes for putting dumb posts int he place with pursuasion such as "OCH IS premium u n00b!". Counteracting asinine statements like that is OK.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 02:46

Disgr-Ace

no...

KEEP EVERYONE TREATED EQUALLY AS THE WAY THEY ARE. I'll explain that in "Premium Membership" in the DO NOT section.

that would ruin the game for a load of people...

also if this game was like call of duty i would never play it again. i hate that game so much...

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 04:42

Hearthstone

DO NOT -- Make a butt-ton of Downloadable Content.

Who said they were gonna?

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 06:19

Skyguarder

-1

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 06:41

Isekuube

Derp. :3

Where is Three Rings gonna get the monies for advertising like that? Also: If premium membership was made. I would only stalk the forums. ;-; I wouldn't play at all. :S

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 09:39

Klipik-Forum

The thing about those games with those ads is that they
a) have multimillion dollar budgets
and/or
b) have "join for free" as a limited demo (aka WoW) or as a blatant P2W scam.

What they really should do, though, is make a new trailer for the entire game (not just updates) that isn't mostly consistent of beta content.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 09:44

Khamsin

I don't get the hate for premium membership. IMO, I think that this game needs something like that. Right now, since most of the money comes from the forum of trying to acquire costume items, the developers continue to focus their efforts mostly on costume items, as that's what makes them money. If they were able to derive income from players running dungeons through a premium membership that gave bonus loot and other perks, they would actually want to develop new content so that people would keep their subscriptions active.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 10:10

Warp-Master

@Khamsin

NO. GO AWAY.

Spiral Knights is an economic game. You have income (in the form of crowns and materials), and you have power. You buy power with income; energy doesn't disrupt this as much as it normally would because of the player-run energy market. Allowing players to buy the means to get additional income or power directly is equivalent to letting players buy their way to victory. Imagine if you could buy a max UV for $25.00 - Lockdown would be even more worthless. Now imagine that kind of thing permeating every aspect of play. That's what you're suggesting.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 11:00

Khamsin

I can't tell if you actually believe that what you're saying or you're just a**pulling to try to justify hatred for a premium subscription. Because seriously, the game is already pay to win.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 11:07

Thunder-The-Bright

kham, play to win is: you pay, you can pwn whatever NPC you encounter and whoever who doesn't pay.
this game is not so. whatever amount of money you throw at the game, if you dont learn do dodge you die, and the hammer won't help you. same for LD.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 11:45

#10

Pipipipipi

how come no one has pointed this out yet?

it already has premium even though you said it should not,

It's called Operation Crimson Hammer

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 12:20

#11

Thunder-The-Bright

if you call OCH as premium... well, it is, but since the amount of aid it gives you is relativly small, it hasn't got so much impact. it gives you da hamma and DR. masks of seerus can be traded, remember.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 19:04

#12

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

The problem with advertisements...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PQXthR_16lA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DPQXt...

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 22:25

#13

Neinhart

Tidying up.

@OP
"DO NOT... Take the same route EA did...*cough* CALL OF DUTY *cough*"

To be clear, EA is responsible for publishing the Battlefield franchise. Activision is the respective publisher of Call of Duty.

"DO NOT... Take the same path RuneScape did."

The moment they do is when I quit. As of now, it's highly unlikely. I don't think SEGA and OOO need a reminder for what not to be.

@Khamsin
"I don't get the hate for premium membership. IMO, I think that this game needs something like that."
Apologies, comrade. This is where we disagree.

"Because seriously, the game is already pay to win."

I'm going to have to stop you there. This game is far from pay to win. The only content where you are required to pay to access is OCH, and it's a new level/boss that can be done without. As for the exclusive mission rewards? They can be traded and sold to those who really want it, but at the end of the day, not many players actually pursue them because ironically enough, they're not very powerful as you would expect them to be. Other content like Shadow Lairs can be accessed if you work hard enough to get the Energy, and even then players slash costs to get around it by splitting the bill in a four way party. On top of that, players have a knack for inviting players to join for free in exchange for a higher success rate.

Promotional items are now strictly energy priced via supply depot instead of offered via cash purchase, and these promotions are more than half the time some sort of silly cosmetic item the people wind up merchanting later on and don't have any impact on game mechanics except the economy. The difference between you and someone who spends alot of money on this game is that they probably have a bunch of prismatic accessories and a Monster Pocket. Does this make them look baller? Yes. Does it make them stronger or more likely to win? No. If any of these keep you from winning, please enlighten me as to how.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 22:32

#14

Khamsin

"At the rate they're cranking out new free content VS DLC we're looking at 3 DLCS by the time game reaches it's prime"

Poor guy. SK is already past its prime.

Sun, 09/22/2013 - 22:42

#15

Neinhart

@Khamsin

You'll need to clarify at what point in time you considered this to game to be "past it's prime". This game still has plenty of potential. Don't be a Negative Nelly, comrade.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 05:11

#16

Mickmane

Xtweeterx, your post is very confusing. I suggest some tidying up, and put a DO NOT in front of every new item you mean to be DO NOT.
With that big batch, the dividing lines aren't enough to keep attention on that it's a DO NOT section.

Anyway, I am mainly posting because of:
Khamsin wrote: "the game is already pay to win"

So, please explain how, without any way to dump real cash into the game, I Have Lionheart Honour thingy, The Hammer & DR{*}, full Ancient set, all 4 SL Artifacts,...?
I mean, having done all 4 SL means I 'won', right? Or how else do you define 'win' in a game without any place that says "You've won."?

Oh, and I suck at fighting. >1.5 years didn't make me any better, so I'm proudly the worst player ever. No amount of cash could buy me winning any battle in this game.

The Crowns, Energy, costumes, and accessories I've piled up also don't have anything to do with pay (anyone can pile up stuff, now more than ever with free elevators), or win (being pretty doesn't win you any flower pots even, never mind the game).

On a side note; I'm somewhat disappointed that the sale didn't change again after 2 days. I already have a spare Prismatic Dragon Wings from the last time they were in Supply Depot. Gimme something new! ;P

{*} I'll tell you; surprise gift on Steam.

/me, anxciously anticipating Khamsin answer. Enlighten me!

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 15:13

#17

Soulwolfy

-1

i kinda like SK quiet and peaceful :3 not like Minecraft where every1 at my school all the time are talking about it .__.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 17:51

#18

Sirius-Voltbreaker

No.

I HATE games with member ship. In fact one thinf keeping the game alive is the fact that there is no membership.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 17:59

#19

Khamsin

@Sirius

Alive how? Alive with players or alive with revenues? Because the lack of membership doesn't help revenues much, since F2Pers don't generate revenue for the game either way, and most players who spend money would be willing to invest in a premium membership. Perhaps it might scare off players who would spend money, but that's arguable.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 19:54

#20

Klipik-Forum

Kham, if you're going to talk about "prime", then this game to my knowledge never really had one.
Also... (warning I might rage a little bit)

"Because seriously, the game is already pay to win."
No. Quite simply, it isn't. Pay to win (in my book) is being able to gain an advantage over non-paying players that they cannot overcome by playing the game for any amount of time. Take World of Tanks' old Gold Ammo system, or Blacklight Retribution's old Incendiary rounds. Both were in-game ammunition for their respective weapons obtainable only through purchase with real-world money. They were statistically 100% better than anything an F2P player could get. More damage, longer range, w/e. That is the essence of Pay to Win - paying to get an unfair advantage that cannot be gotten another way.

SK, on the other hand, follows a "Pay-to-Accelerate" business model. Almost every item in the game (with the exception of OCH items and some starter pack stuff) is obtainable through normal play, without spending a cent. If someone does not have the time or patience to grind for those items, they can purchase CE to either craft them, or buy them from the Supply Depot or AH. It is not an unfair advantage because the items they can get are obtainable through traditional methods as well, only with more time. Even in the case of exclusive items like the Dark Retribution, Rocket Hammers, Seerus masks, Static Flash, and Green Ward, they do not make the P2P players objectively/statistically 100% better than players who do not have these items, because each has either an F2P counterpart (static flash = cold snap/firecracker) or some weakness or lack of bonuses that can be exploited or nullified by using different F2P gear instead (ie Hammer's pure elemental damage, DR's difficulty and pure shadow damage+lack of knockback, Seerus status weaknesses).

So no. Not Pay to Win.

Also, this is purely opinion and speculation (as are your posts), but I strongly doubt the main constraint on the development of new content is money or revenue streams. After all, new content is a stronger way of drawing players back who will pay willfully and stay if you do a good job than having players opt to pay a monthly subscription fee for the shaky promise of new content or increased rewards, neither of which hold much value. This is because the size of development team probably hinders the production rate of new content more than the income they get, and increased rewards are not very useful if they allow you to beat the game in two weeks and cancel your subscription.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 20:01

#21

Khamsin

@Klipik

Google pay-to-win.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 20:22

#22

Klipik-Forum

Okay. Did that. Now what?

Urban Dictionary: "Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."
'Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!'

Wikipedia: "Critics of the free-to-play approach are concerned that if players that paid for special items subsequently become better at a multiplayer game than those who did not purchase the same items, then it will not be as enjoyable as other games since players who paid more money are more successful than those who simply rely on skill. These games are known as "Pay-to-Win" (often abbreviated P2W) games."

Does SK fit into either of those? Let's see...

"Games that let you buy better gear... th[a]n everyone else"
Nope.

"Games that allow you to make...items...at a faster rate [by paying]..."
Yes. But!

"...and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."
This nullifies the previous statement. Because Sk stratifies its players into Tiers both in PvE and PvP, you cannot gain an advantage over others by paying - you simply get booted into a higher tier, where the other players have the same level gear and, most likely, more experience than you. And will subsequently beat you into the ground because you have no idea what you're doing. That not only applies to PvP, but PvE as well - in PvE, the monsters will more or less do the same.

"'Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!'"
As previously stated, this can't happen.

"if players that paid for special items subsequently become better at a multiplayer game than those who did not purchase the same items"
Again, can't happen. There are no exclusive Pay-only items that are objectively better than normal gear.

"players who paid more money are more successful than those who simply rely on skill."
Are you seeing a pattern yet? Players who spend more money only progress further - into territories with more difficult enemies and higher-skilled players, situations in which their lack of skill and experience more than counteracts their gear - which is not "special" anyway.

So, I googled pay-to-win... what was I supposed to get out of that? That I was right?

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 22:53

#23

Whats-His-Face

-1

The more players, the more the chance that the game is gunna beco--
>br?
Um, no.
>Br?
No!
>Br???
I SAID NO

Anyway, the server can't handle the players now, add a few more....thousand and it'll catch fire. Again.

Mon, 09/23/2013 - 23:38

#24

Aotr

@Xtweeterx

I don't think spiral knights can ever become a major title, since it just can't compare with games like WOW or COD, it just doesn't offer that type of gameplay, storyline or open world (skyrim) feel and the developers aren't willing to expand on those areas, instead they chose to focus on cartoony graphics and arcade style gameplay with a very limited storyline that's just enough to explain why you're doing a mission for the sake of doing a mission.

Tue, 09/24/2013 - 00:14

#25

Xtweeterx

Replies

Holy crap where to begin?

@Lordazurewrath:

"KEEP EVERYONE TREATED EQUALLY AS THE WAY THEY ARE. I'll explain that in "Premium Membership" in the DO NOT section.

that would ruin the game for a load of people..."

I don't see how that's possible.

@Hearthstone:

No one, but just a fair warning.

@Dat-Isey-Koobe:

"Where is Three Rings gonna get the monies for advertising like that?"

I have no idea, but I believe with every fiber in my well being they can achieve such things.

@Klipik-Forum #1:

"The thing about those games with those ads is that they
a) have multimillion dollar budgets
and/or
b) have "join for free" as a limited demo (aka WoW) or as a blatant P2W scam."

I have no clue what a multimillion dollar budget is, but I agree nonetheless on both things.

What they really should do, though, is make a new trailer for the entire game (not just updates) that isn't mostly consistent of beta content.

I'd rather you see the new trailer on SK's Steam page...

@Khamsin and Warp-Master:

Those posts made me /lol.

@Purepwn:

Ah, crap sorry for the conffuzlition!. Also, for your reply against Khamsin, I'd rather you "nope.avi" video. But that one also works equally as fine XD
As for your whole reply against him, I'm afraid I'm going to have to /yes you 9,000 times. Again, from personal experience, with premium memberships, there's a prime difference between developing actual skill and feel and love for the game, and just blazing through it with no real effort at all and looking like you own the damn place. I chose the former, of course.

@Soulwolfy:

Yeah, I agree there... But the lack of players I've seen on SK's Steam hub is actually quite disappointing in my eyes.

@Klipik-Forum #2:

"SK, on the other hand, follows a "Pay-to-Accelerate" business model"...HOW did I not see it that way before out of my 2 and 1/2 years of playing!? /me inflicts bodily harm upon his body due to the/epicfail of not thinking of that.

@ Whats-His-Face:
What's a Br?

@Aotr:
"I don't think spiral knights can ever become a major title, since it just can't compare with games like WOW or COD," Yeah, because people are too lazy to go into recent launches and try them out, and keep going after getting the TF2 hat JUST FOR THE SAKE OF GETTING THE TF2 HAT.

"it just doesn't offer that type of gameplay,"

Oh yeah? RuneScape has over 1.2M (my guess anyway. Haven't been there in 2 years due to obvious reasons) and its gameplay is click... everything...!!!!!! To walk, attack, and the only keyboard functions are camera movement and chatting.....!!

"instead they chose to focus on cartoony graphics and arcade style gameplay with a very limited storyline that's just enough to explain why you're doing a mission for the sake of doing a mission."

That can also apply to open-world and storyline. Graphics and gameplay don't matter to the mount of walkable terrain a MMO or any game can have.

Tue, 09/24/2013 - 04:25

#26

Mickmane

Khamsin, failure to reply just shows you don't have the answer. So, in effect you have silently admitted you were lying.
Now, if you would only stop coming back to various threads with your lie that this game is pay-to-win. Repeating it doesn't make it true you know, lying just puts you in a bad light.

Wed, 09/25/2013 - 13:53

#27

Not-Someone

@Mickmane

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh XD I guess Kharnsin is the new "Forum troll/crybaby". Like one of the guys posted here said: "SK is more like Pay-toAccelerate. At no point is it EVER Pay-to-Win"

Now it's legitimately 100% no more Pay-to-Win now that you can buy OCH with CE.

Wed, 09/25/2013 - 21:56

#28

Quaquonfaes

I don't think SK is going to become a major title anytime soon, any major title has open world or EXEPTIONAL gameplay, both of which SK lacks.
Also, I don't think they need to focus on anything other that stop powering servers by potatos first.

Thu, 09/26/2013 - 07:22

#29

Dean-Zane

but OCH

but it's not even a P2P game anymore cuz OCH was just released for 3200 energy. Now ANYONE and EVERYONE can buy OCH without having to spend their moola.

Search

Make SK one of those "Major games"