As a gunguy myself, I approve of this update. But I can't wait a whole month, guess I'll get the test server thingy and ruin the surprise for myself and whatever. :p
Gunners Rejoice!
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 20:21
#52
I like guns!
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 21:37
#53
Hey Thunderhawks
Anyway you could PM me that link you had? I'm too impatient to wait and I don't want to ruin the surprise for everyone else
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 22:15
#54
I am predicting that we will
I am predicting that we will see gunner sets with Move Speed Increase. This would only make sense as being mobile is a top priority for gunners and none of the current gunner sets have move speed increase.
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 22:31
#55
Oooh, wonder if we'll get
Oooh, wonder if we'll get flamethrowers? Flamethrowers are a type of gun right? Right?
Joking aside, a big thank you to the SK Dev Team. Hope this update is a profitable one for both you guys as a business and us as players.
I also hope Blitz doesn't get nerfed, since it's mainly OP in FSC, but has more disadvantages than advantages in other maps where mobility's required.
Beyond that, I'm looking forward to seeing what new stuff we'll get and whether there's going to be any game changing mechanics, like a Death Blossom charged attack.
LD should become more interesting once these new guns and armor get introduced.
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 22:32
#56
oh man
So this is the part where Iron Slug/Callahan become usable, right, right?
You know, the last gun-patch, I realized that the punch gun was buffed to have two shots AND have really beautiful knockback (like, 1.2+ tiles on small enemies). After seeing that, I went to the Magnus line and their knockback per regular shot was... nothing. :[
Also, I predict piercing behavior (go-through-enemy) bullets.
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 22:35
#57
I've got to stick with my theme!
I'd love to see an angelic gunslinger armor set. It might get me more interested in gunning, especially since I'm finally getting the alchemizer charge shot down. I can't wait to try everything out!
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 22:44
#58
Armor
Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but don't gunners already have more armor types than the other two weapon types? (Also, as long as you're making new armors, Silverhelm/Radiant Silverhelm, please!)
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 22:57
#59
"The Gunner Update aims to make the use of handguns as a primary weapon more viable by balancing existing guns and gun-centric gear as well as some general changes to handgun behaviors."
This has better be doing something about switch-shooting.
And internal ricochets with Alchemers.
And Blitz Needle.
And Iron Slug.
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 23:39
#60
*ahem*
SQUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE =D
MOBILE PIERCING GUN PLEASE =D
Mon, 10/07/2013 - 23:54
#61
@Zeddy
I'm the proud owner of a Magma Driver and what is a internal ricochet?
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 00:01
#62
Yeah! Magma drivers!
The only alchemizer I have is a magma driver, and it's my primary gun. Internal ricochets are when an alchemizer bullet bounces inwards on an enemy, hitting it multiple times. If aimed correctly, you can have all bullets of a charged shot hit your target.
Feel free to correct me if you're talking about something completely different. I might learn a thing or two.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 00:36
#63
An internal ricochet is what Fangel said. It allows you to instantly kill multiple lumbers in one charge attack with Magma Driver.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 01:48
#64
*Cough cough* bombers *cough*
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 02:17
#65
pretty meh
I kinda half-expect OOO to nerf guns like callahan and iron slug while buffing the polaris
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 03:14
#66
Oh Lagger
Such ebil
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 03:35
#67
I have been waiting a long
I have been waiting a long time for this moment....
My little pink friend!! >=)
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 03:49
#68
As a gunner, I'm surprised & befuddled because I feel gunner is the most viable weapon specialty, especially if trying to do it from the beginning, and my first thought was also that bombs are more in need of buffing, at least for lower levels; bombs are so good at 5-stars I'd say they're overpowered, but getting there is daunting since they're extreme late-bloomers. My second thought was that swords might be more in need of buffing late-game; now that I know how to use Alchemers and Autoguns well enough, between those and my Catalysers I just don't feel like using my swords lately.
Overall, I'm mostly giddy because I feel like I'm getting an early Christmas present in the form of NEW WEAPONS! Not only that, but it's _gonna_ be exactly my cup of tea. Thank you, Nick, and thank you OOO! (for the guns and the puns)
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 06:29
#69
@Geosmin
The bombs that are actually good are few. There are many bombs that could use a lot of love.
Another issue is lack of elemental bombs that aren't vortex, mist, or shard. Could really use an elemental bomb that is straight forward like briar or blast bombs.
Speaking of blast bombs the knock back associated with them is quite terrible for group play unless everyone is spamming them. Knockback needs to be removed from at least one of the 5* blast bombs.
Seriously, if bombs were so good then why are the majority of the people I play with in random groups swordsman and gunners.
The numbers or rather lack of... in the bomber population speaks for itself.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 06:08
#70
:O
Do you think they are going to fix the Spam Alchemers guns?
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 06:56
#71
@Zeddy
>This has better be doing something about switch-shooting.
Can someone please explain to me what the problem is? Because I don't see it. I don't agree with the notion of removing this style of play, and I have yet to see any strong arguments for this cause.
---
On the other hand, really looking forward to the new stuff! Moar items for me to collect! Should be fun.
With this, though, I am really hoping that you are looking into the more explosive equipment and how to ensure that we get the bang for the buck we spent on it.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 07:19
#72
shid, cutting all the rest, it's all on the opposition should use/ effective use and effective use /exploit.
alchemers are 2 shot clip. you shouldn't be able to spam bullets like you do with switch shooting. we know it's much more effective, and it's seen as an exploit from many players. nick knows of this issue (in one thread he said it himself), so we'll know what he thinks on it after this gunner patch. if it's an exploit, it will be removed. if it's just not the way you should use that gun, it will be simply reworked so that the effective use changes.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 07:39
#73
@Zeddy
Why is switch-shooting overpowered? It's the only damn thing that really keeps alchemers a viable gun, along with internal ricochet. Take away those things and the alchemer will become VERY useless.
@Thunder
If switch-shooting is a exploit, then so is shield-cancelling.
It's a technique. I hope OOO doesn't kill my alchemers..
The charge is nice, but who the heck would use it over a brandish charge? Come on.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 07:46
#74
@Grim
Internal ricochet seems very exploity. I wouldn't be surprised if that goes. Switch-shooting may go too, although I'd agree that is more of an unintended technique .
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 07:51
#75
@Khamsin
Then why would I use my umbra over a biohazard, or one of the new guns?
Biohazard has the same damage, a two-shot clip, and poison, plus a nice charge.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 07:59
#76
@Grim
"Then why would I use my umbra over a biohazard, or one of the new guns?"
Ask 000, not me. They may buff the damage or do something else.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 07:59
#77
i'm detecting a large security forces ahead, its the gremlins
Remy would like to have a word with ye gunners.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 08:01
#78
biohazard has a 3 shot clip.
you should use an alchemer for the richochet. you can still hit an enemy multiple times, or many enemies, even with the normal shot, while it's not mucn likely if you don't use cata charge attack.
shield cancelling is kind of an exploit you know, you are cutting frames from a movement you should do.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 08:37
#79
@Shidara
"Can someone please explain to me what the problem is? "
It's an infinite ammo cheat-code. If guns were intended to never reload, they would have simply not have had the reload mechanism implemented in the first place.
@Grimranger
I've been using Magma Driver and Volcanic Pepperbox in FSC a lot. Now, I don't mean to brag, but this often receives a lot of impressed praises from the randoms I run with. Do you need to switch-shoot alchemers to keep up with Combuster and Blitz Needle? Maybe. Do they need switch-shooting to stay viable, balanced weapons? Not even remotely.
Umbra Driver has more damage than Biohazard (which is equal to status alchemers in damage, not the pure damage ones). Umbra also has the ricochets and much faster projectiles. Umbra's charge attacks do not come with the multiple flaws Biohazard's do.
Please don't use Brandish to compare anything to anything. Those and Blitz are the ultimate kings of being overpowered.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 08:43
#80
No change to blitz please.
Yea, i know most would want the opposite of what i say, but hear me out. Blitz is a very strong gun already. The problem most players have, as we all know, is the way it cements you to the spot. But i don't think it's such a bad thing. I believe it's more about players not learning to pick their times and positioning to use it better. I see sooooo many players, especially in Firestorm Citadel (Vanaduke), try so hard to charge trojans like it' the only way of getting the job done...even when they're in a packed crowd/arena and will probably die if they do. Simple bursts can kill trojans too, but it's very rarely i see players even attempt this because to them, "It's just a waste of time" :/
It's my belief that the gun isn't broken, just players who aren't thinking outside the box as much to use it better. I like seeing players adjust smartly to the fight and thinking on their feet. Tactical awareness helps not just in games...it's a great life lesson :) [I'm not good at english, so this might come out wrong :/]
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 08:59
#81
Alchemer switching is a
Alchemer switching is a pretty pathetic exploit which players take to another level with macro scripts which automatise the process. It really needs to go away, same goes for internal ricochets. Only bad players need to use exploits.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 09:32
#82
paw, you are talking about 99% of the guys who have 2 alchemers. ok it's an exploit (for many players) but since everybody use it, it's no advantage t anybody but poor PvE monsters.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 09:54
#83
Blitz Needle isn't an advantage on anyone but poor PvE monsters. Are you telling me Blitz doesn't need a rebalance?
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 10:03
#84
wut?
alchemer needs a rework, namely some kind of hit limit for the internal richochets, and something I can't figure out to counterbalance switch shooting's speed.
blitz needs a cut out damage nerf.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 11:04
#85
It'd be hilarious if the
It'd be hilarious if the update was you-have-to-manually-reload-and-get required ammo
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 11:08
#86
@ Zeddy
Well, in the sense of PvP, maybe a little. But is every single gun/weapon/bomb supposed to be practical to both PvP and PvE when both play modes are so different? If say Blitz gets anymore powered to use, then Lord Vanaduke and other bosses in the game get even easier to beat. It's serves PvE players just fine right now with the challenge it brings in its disadvantages. If say we adjust the mobility of blitz needle for PvP, won't that hurt PvE players in the sense that we're adding-on to an already OP gun -- boring fights?
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 11:22
#87
me-luv, you say it's OP and doesn't need a nerf?
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 11:34
#88
@Me-Luv-Ulongtime
I believe there's a miscommunication between us.
The absolutely last thing I want to see is a buff of any kind for Blitz Needle. It needs a fairly substantial nerf.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 11:37
#89
To the chap saying gunners
To the chap saying gunners get more armours then swordies and bombers, they get 1 more: Seerus, which is countered by the (free) OCH rewards for swordies and bombers. (in case you're wondering the 4th swordy armour is Heavenly Iron)
As for whether alch' switching and ricochets should be changed, I believe they should remain as they are. They're exploits indeed, but exploits which require a degree of skill to perform (precise aiming and finger dexterity) so I consider them an asset to the game. If they got taken out I'd probably not play SK much more, unless the new guns provided more challenging mechanics to learn.
Blitz on the other hand needs a nerf, bringing it down to the same damage levels as plague and pepperbox. Won't argue about that one.
weeeeee new guns! :D
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 12:03
#90
@ Zeddy @Thunder
Oh yea, i wholeheartedly would welcome it being nerfed a bit. Hmm...i dunno how much tho. Fighting Vanaduke sometimes on Elite feels like he won't die. Maybe trade some damage for mobility, but allow players to buff the missed damage with perks/trinkets/UV's.
And my apologies, i just figured that players wanting the rebalance to "adjust the mobility" issue, since it's usually the biggest complaint. Wasn't thinking otherwise. **facepalms** :/
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 13:17
#91
Beep Boop
As a Gunslinger, I'm excited.
But as someone who started playing a year and a half ago, I'm wondering why the hell it took you so long to balance anything.
Overall, I'm not expecting it to be much. Considering OOO's idea of balance has been:
- Break things mechanically and then ignore them (Shard Bombs)
- Buff things beyond reasonable explanation and then ignore the problems it causes (Blitz Needle and Chaos Armor)
- Nerf things beyond reasonable explanation and then ignore those problems (Monster AI, in particular the entire Beast Family)
- Ignore them all together (Iron Slug buffs that were promised a YEAR ago)
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the new "balanced" handguns upset the game and end up being broken in some way only to go un-patched and rebalanced for months on end.
[EDIT: Please don't link to content with foul language. Thanks!]
Alright, I'll just post my commentary from the link then. And if people want to see the picture that goes along with it, they can go to my tumblr. My name is PixelHat there.
"So after far too long a time of not balancing and fine-tuning the equipment in Spiral Knights, the folks at OOO has finally decided to start working on that. Sometime in November, they’re going to release “The Gunner Update,” which will make handguns more balanced and fun to use, as well as adding a bunch of new guns and a new set of gunner armor.
I’d say good job, but this was an update that needed to be done a LONG time ago. Maybe the new players will finally get to enjoy something resembling balance, but a lot of the players who would have really enjoyed something like this have already left. Good job on that."
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 12:53
#92
I don't see why adding new guns/gunslinger armors comes before adding new bombs/bomer armors.
Genius ideas are common here.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 12:56
#93
I wonder if they will give on
I wonder if they will give on knights by a rank a free gun. You know, remember what they did last November with the guildhall update, they gave us free ceremonial cobalt stuff.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 13:33
#94
Ugh, I don't even want to add to the noise but:
alch switching is basically an exponent of shield canceling.
Remove shield canceling/alch switching and the game goes from requiring some skill to excel, to pressing buttons like a robot.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 13:36
#95
@Feyi
"Remove shield canceling/alch switching and the game goes from requiring some skill to excel, to pressing buttons like a robot."
No. Stop hyperbolizing.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 14:05
#96
Hmm
I am hoping that when Nick says "some general changes to handgun behaviors" that would include removing the desire for gunners to resort to alch switching. The new mechanics could allow guns to fire at a steady pace without switching out every single shot. Could the change be as simple as alchemers having a larger clip and a shorter cooldown?
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 14:06
#97
@Nick
Nick, I saw all your puns the first time I pulled back the hammer. Nice work, those were clever.
I'm hoping that the gunner update will be fired off at the same time as the new clockworks. In addition, I hope the new clockworks will give us some more bang for our buck when trying to find specific leveling loot... 3* & 4* crystals and orbs.
p.s.
Please don't nerf the Polaris... it's only too powerful in PvP.
The Polaris saves my life on a daily basis! Lock and load!
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 14:15
#98
Alchemers aren't the only weapons you can use weapon switching with (you can even use it with swords), they'd have to change the mechanic in general.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 14:53
#99
Alchemer-swapping is pretty dastardly, but very legitimate.
I don't see such a huge deal with internal ricochets. You have to liberately get close up to an enemy at point-blank, which is a distance gunners generally should refrain from staying within. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like a high-risk, high-reward tactic. I don't see a reason to toss it out of the game.
Though, no one ever saw a reason for removing Vitapod-dropping either.
Tue, 10/08/2013 - 14:54
#100
switchshooting is fun though
Not that my opinion here matters since I'm probably part of the "1%" who can pull this off, but I use a more advanced version of switch-shooting that lets me use the same gun as much as I want.
I actually wouldn't have picked up guns if it weren't for this, because I like mastering crazy techniques, lol.
I had started out (and for the longest time, exclusively) using heavy swords, and the most advanced technique I had known about was shield cancelling (kind of boring).
Shield-cancelling? Boring.
Pause-shooting? Boring.
Switchshooting with shield cancelling? Meh.
Double-switchshooting? More like it. Hard enough that not everyone can pick it up, but ultimately rewarding for the ones who can? Sounds like a skill-based mechanic to me.
I hope they pick up the GunZ route here and don't try to dictate gameplay styles, but I'm a little jaded after the sunshard thing. Admittedly though, in that game, everyone kind of knew that all the techniques were exploits because the game played NOTHING like the intended gameplay, but it was more fun that way lol.
A straight shooting Pepper Box is all i want