Switchshooting is the same as shield-cancelling, except it actually takes more practice. If it was so overpowered you'd be seeing more gunners in both PvE and PvP. But that's not it, is it? Because swords deal more damage for less work. Anyway, enough derailing.
Gunners Rejoice!
I'm glad they're making a push towards run'n'gun players
edit: Any chance of fixing server lag?
@Shidara
"Can someone please explain to me what the problem is? Because I don't see it. I don't agree with the notion of removing this style of play, and I have yet to see any strong arguments for this cause."
What is there to argue? It's pretty obvious that skipping reloads and shooting non stop is unintended behavior otherwise there simply wouldn't be a reload.
@Grimranger
"Why is switch-shooting overpowered? It's the only damn thing that really keeps alchemers a viable gun, along with internal ricochet. Take away those things and the alchemer will become VERY useless.
If switch-shooting is a exploit, then so is shield-cancelling.
It's a technique. I hope OOO doesn't kill my alchemers..
The charge is nice, but who the heck would use it over a brandish charge? Come on."
Unlike guns swords do not reload and even when shield canceling swords are still restricted to the natural downtime between attacks. Essentially shield canceling for a swordsman doesn't speed up hits rather its just a way to use the same first swing over and over.
Guns on the other hand can use switching to boost speed or dps.
It speeds up hits with swords too. Quite a few people use two flourishes/brandishes in LD to attack faster than normal (or one if they use double switching)
No it doesn't speed them up.
People use those swords in LD and shieldstopping to maintain control not to increase attack speed. Using the entire 3 attack chain requires exactly the same amount of time as the quickest shield stopping. If anything shield stopping makes attacks slower due to user error or users delaying slightly in between attacks.
"I don't see such a huge deal with internal ricochets. You have to liberately get close up to an enemy at point-blank, which is a distance gunners generally should refrain from staying within. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like a high-risk, high-reward tactic. I don't see a reason to toss it out of the game."
So based on that logic do you think swordsman should one shot other players with uncharged attacks? Last time I checked swordsman are required to use this high-risk/high-reward tactic you speak of.
Please explain why it is so much riskier for a gunner to be in close range in comparison to a swordsman.
@ Writhes. Precisely. Swordies do more direct damage than anybody in the game, because of this "risk". But honestly, most swords in the game have just enough knockback to cancel out the attacks of the attacking enemy if timed right. Now that I think about it, there is not much risk for swordies in being so close, but there is for gunners. However, with his idea implemented all of a sudden it would be quite as dangerous.
On a side note, if the Grim Repeater is a shadow autogun then OCH will become that much easier.
I disagree with one thing out of everybody's comments. The Blitz does not need a nerf. The recharge rate and time spent motionless firing give the gun a disadvantage that I feel makes up for the damage. It's warfare: Mobility versus firepower. In firestorm, you have to time your charge shots precisely or risk being flanked by a fire zombie with ease.
As for the update, well, nicely done on the puns. The new armours should be interesting, although you will have a hard job outdoing the awesome of the Snarbolax. The Grim repeater sounds cool, sounds like one of those lever-action weapons, like a Model 1887.
Come to think about it, there aren't any shotgun spread weapons in SK, that could be in the update. A double barrelled shotgun which fires five or six pellets in a reasonably tight spread. The charge attack would be using both barrels, but maybe every pellet does slightly extra damage. Knockback would be slight, maybe even the kickback could knock the knight back...
Oh, right, reality calls.
Dear Nick,
Please don't nerf the Blitz. I concede the Polaris needs it, but not the Blitz.
Sincerely
Ash.
Total joke. Guns are less powerful for a reason, It doesn't require any skill to shoot something from a distance.Things are balanced just fine atm in order to be a powerful knight u must master all 3 different weapon types and carry them with you at all times. Gunners should remain less powerful because there is no need for them to get up close and personal with their enemy's. ya good thinking ,don't add new levels or new enemy's just re-coler existing armor and weapons, change the stats and call them new. You have almost completed the transformation to "Dress up Asteroids".
Edit: I don't think me calling someone an idiot is really worth a 2-day ban. But whatever.
@Seiran Are you referring to single-weapon switching, that is, shooting a bullet then quickly shield cancelling, switching to another weapon, then shooting another bullet with the same gun?
Once you have switch-shooting down this is the next thing to do, it's harder but it's quite rewarding (and fun once you learn how).
I've got it down pretty well, though to do it reliably (without accidentally switching to a different weapon or using a full clip) I need at least ASI VH on the alchemer. Quite nice to do with a storm driver on people with shock weakness.
thats mean. dont be mean.
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Bombs should be the MOST powerful weapons. duh. there bombs.
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i find gunners and brandish users to be the most whiny.
[no spoilers!]
This is supposed to go somewhere but I'm not sure what's wrong
Upload a screenshot of your public/spoilerknights/9-28ish-13 patch/ folder and I'll tell you.
I figured out what was wrong. But if I say anything the mods will silence me. Turns out it was a typo on my part. If you can figure it out then you'll see pictures of the new guns. (only a few of them have names for some reason)
I'll tell you this much though:
There's going to be a new level called "Spirits of the Graveyard | Nobody drinks Gin anymore"
I'm pretty sure that's all I'll be allowed to actually say. But you have the link. Just find the typo.
Actually I just realized something. Nick, does the promis of "2 dozen guns" apply to 24 unique family lines, or would would a 4* and 5* of the same gun count as 2?
Pepperbox has all the drawbacks of Blitz Needle. In fact, it has more drawbacks than Blitz Needle, and yet it is not overpowered. Either Pepper needs a buff or Blitz needs a nerf, because they are not balanced against eachother.
Blitz is a pure piercing weapon, the pepperbox inflicts less normal damage to everyone and has the chance of setting on fire. Blitz is only overpowered in Firestorm, everywhere else it has great limitations.
Blitz is great vs devilities, also it is good for Heart of Ice.
From the wiki, D24.
Blitz Needle vs fiend/beast: 238
Blitz Needle vs undead/gremlin: 172
Plague vs fiend/beast: 176
Pepperbox vs everything: 104
176 vs 238, 35% increase
104 vs 172, 65% increase
This is not even remotely balanced. Three pepperboxes would not outperform two Blitz Needles against a neutral target. No other weapon lines have such an enormous gap between their status and their pure damage branches. In fact, let's look at every single one.
Polaris vs Supernova:
133 vs 151, 14% increase
Biohazard vs Neutralizer:
349 vs 380, 9% increase
Hail Driver vs Nova Driver:
165 vs 198, 20% increase
95 vs 133, 40% increase
Rigadoon vs Final Flourish:
215 vs 258, 20% increase
150 vs 193, 29% increase
Cold Iron Vanquisher vs Leviathan Blade:
177 vs 193, 9% increase
Sun Shards vs Splinter Bomb:
147 vs 166, 13% increase
81 vs 95, 17% increase
I can't help noticing you didn't list the Blitz's abilities against constructs and jellies. I wonder why that was.
What about gunner shield, like BTS for swordmasters?
I can't help noticing you didn't list the Blitz's abilities against constructs and jellies. I wonder why that was.
Does he need to? That's like trying to use the fact that Polaris deals less damage to Gremlins and Beasts than Supernova does as a basis of an argument to buff it.
What's your point? Does being special damage somehow excuse a weapon from being severely overpowered?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Blitz Needle will kill even slimes and constructs in two charges.
/sit in the corner holding a lone Nitronome T_T
In all seriousness, this sounds like an exciting up date :D Still waiting for a Bomber Update though :P
@The-Worst-Knight
Gunner+Shield=Shield that shoots out bullets when you shield? :3 Nah, that's horribly unbalanced XD
Nah, i mean shield with DMG boost or something like that.
..
Before the update actually happens, it'd be nice if it was named the Gunslinger Update. Gunner is just-- No.
Also, being a player who is building torwards the Autogun Line, (minus Plague Needle because Maskeraith is a doofus) I'm excited for the Grim Repeater if it's what I think it is.
MEANWHILE
I HAD SPAGHETTI LAST NIGHT
IT WAS GREAT
CONFIRMED BEST GUNSLINGER BY UPDATE TIME
I'm just happy there's new stuff coming, and hope the changes won't disappoint. Currently swords DPS is so high, I think using swords is actually the low risk, high reward play style of the 3.
PUN EVERYWHERE
''The Gunner Update aims to'', ''We will be also be pulling the trigger on some'', ''more options, targeting areas where'', ''But that’s not all, this update still has one last bullet in its chamber''.
So here the Nick pun's.
Pecimiste mode on:
Two dozen new gun wich make 24 new gun. 24 new gun at all. So let divise it because in a normal alchemy trees you have: 2*,3*,4* and 5*.
24/4= 6. 6 new 5* gun. Yay. But, there is a MINIMUM of two gun per new attack style. So i would say: 2 gun remake whit different demage (percing antigua, shadow blitz.) and 2 new gun combos/attack style/whateveryouwant whit two demage type each.
Pecimiste mode off:
S**** the f**** up mister pecimiste new gun are new gun. HMPF.
Still six 5* gun its pretty good this update will be epic.
Pecimiste mode on:
No. /grumpy cat face
Pecimiste mode off:
YES
/Popoixd start fighting whit imselfe.
EDIT: Seriously i LOVE more than anyone this update. Even if this evil pecimiste guy is taking the control of me sometime.
"The new gunner armors are entirely new and not based on existing sets"
And here, I was hopeful enough to think people may not have enough for valid complaints...
Oh how naive of me...
I wouldn't be in such a hurry to jump on the nerfwagon. As things are right now, Blitz needle is the most (if not only) viable pierce gun versus fiends and wolvers. If it were not for the fact that your only other option is a slow 2-shot pierce gun that has a weak charge, I'd be all for a Blitz nerf.
It has one of the most, if not the most powerful charge in the game. Even on elite difficulty with a full party, a Blitz needle with a max damage bonus is still able to take down a trojan in one charge. The trade-off of standing still while executing a charge attack and the fact you need to be at point blank range from your target is really a small price to pay for all that extra damage (many people will try to charge a trojan with a Blitz even if it means taking some damage). But it's still your only good option as a gunner if you want to fight the aforementioned.
It really seems odd to me that the jump in damage from Plague needle to blitz would be that high. And I think that whether Blitz would get nerfed or not depends more on the question of whether OOO wants us to be able to 1-shot trojans at any circumstance or not (maybe the large damage jump from Plague was intended for that purpose from the beginning?).
In my opinion, the overpowered Blitz/Plague was the developers trying to make up for the lack of any other option for gunners to dish out pierce damage. That would probably explain why they haven't nerfed Blitz needle yet. Now with this gunner update, maybe it'll finally happen. Perhaps at the same time weapons like Callahan, Iron Slug and Pepperbox would get a nice tweak and a chance to shine. It all depends on what new weapons we'll get and how they'll balance all the once we already have.
salt, your argument is kinda weak.
we are talking about an update that will bring more guns, hopefully piercing, so it won't be the only "viable" piecing gun.
besides, both callahan and blitz take out devilites and wolvers quite nicely if you aren't just at centmeters from them. callahan hits dodging targets because of projectile speed, and blitz because of the spread. they aren't bad with wolvers and devilites.
if OOO would have liked us to one shot kill trojans, it would have nerfed trojans and blitz so that everyone was happy.
You either misunderstood or did not read my whole post. My argument is exactly what you're saying. Blitz/Plague wasn't and won't be nerfed UNTIL the gunner update because there weren't/aren't any other viable piercing guns. As for Callahan, while you can certainly hit wolvers / devilites with it, the damage output is quite low.While you're soloing it's not much of a problem,but with a full party in elite difficulty you'd spend quite a lot more time killing targets with a Callahan than with a Blitz. And regarding trojans, A health decrease might open the door for other weapons to 1-shot them, making things even more easy. I personally don't think any weapon should allow you to get rid of a trojan/lancer/dreadnaught in 1 shot in elite mode but I also think it's up to the developers to ultimately decide that.
I like the blitz where it is, mainly because I have a tendency to get stunned while releasing the charge attack and become a sitting duck. If that stun bug is fixed, I'd be down for a nerf, but not down to plague's level. Perhaps a 13% damage increase from plague needle? On elite with my very high damage bonus vs fiends, I should barely be able to kill a trojan with one charge, or not even kill it, like before the elite nerf.
It might be that you're holding your blitz charge for far too long while you're trying to position yourself and that's why you get stunned often. It's part of the tradeoff you make for the ability to inflict heavy damage and it should stay that way. As for damage, I think somewhere in the range of a 10-20% increase from Plague, as per Zeddy's info on increases from other gun lines, is quite reasonable. But again, It won't have a big effect on anything but trojans. That's why I think it all boils down to whether OOO wants us to be able to kill trojans with a single blitz charge in any difficulty / party size or not.
At the moment, in terms of raw damage, Blitz is 25% stronger than Plague. On second place is Nova Driver, being about 15% stronger than Hail.
I'd be okay with Blitz getting nerfed down to 15% stronger than Plague.
We will wait for the journey to be patched to the promised land. Do not disappoint, Nick.
Seriously though, if Iron Slug isn't buffed here then I won't be a happy camper.
Also,
"Any chance for Gunslinger line hats gets unique skins to eventually match their armour pieces?"-Merethif
This^
The only problem with some guns E.G Sentenza. Is that it deals.... not much damage... I am having a hard time killing a mini slime even with Damage bouns of Very High.
Nick, the Punslinger.
Introducing the Punner Update, which will bring into the game 2 dozen new puns.
Nick's tactics aim primarily at "run and pun."
Mini-slimes are very buggy. Most weapons aren't as effective as they should be when used on the minis. I've found the sentenza to be a decent handgun, weak charge attack excluded.
So, what is everyone hoping to see in this update, specifically? Here's my list:
Blitz nerf and callahaun/iron slug buff.
Piercing Antigua.
Military color scheme gunner armor.
Sci-fi themed gunner armor.
Alchemer balancing.
Holster accessory.
Now how bout some new swords,you can add new guns and stuff,but what about swords they need love to u know.
How does post like this get over 146 replies in such a short amount of time?
Swords will probably get their own update at a later date.
And people are really excited about getting new items.
I said great and and guns need new guns,I mean I hope we get some new shadow and elemental weapons basically.
Blitz isn't viable against wolvers unless you aren't charging it. It just makes the wolvers teleport. Callahan is a lot better for wolvers as far as guns go.
Yeah I use single gun switch shooting with my callahan a lot, still a derp at it though :P