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A large amount of speculation regarding future updates; specifically on radiant crystals and the arcade redux

13 replies [Last post]
Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:30
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

This was originally a response to the other radiant crystal thread, but it ended up covering a lot more than just the radiant situation.

Oh, and post below if you find a curse word before Aphrodite/Eurydice/a game developer that isn't a game master/community manager catches me and removes my ability to post forever. I read over this two to three times before posting it, and didn't see any...

So On Radiant Fire Crystals:

I would like to point out that to my knowledge we have received not even acknowledgement of this issue from a developer.

What we have gotten from recent patch notes pertaining to this is:

"This includes significant changes to the Arcade experience and does not represent our intended final design for the Arcade Redux."

And then afterward:

"Adjusted drop rates for Sparks of Life and Orbs of Alchemy"

Which means that the developers are fully aware of what is happening in their game. The question then becomes why they didn't fix the drop rate. Either:
-The developers are unable to fix it, and it is a bug (I am doubtful of this)
-The developers weren't making enough money, and decided to attempt to tax the playerbase heavily as they did before the update.
-The developers plan to implement a new, unannounced/semi announced feature that will give out the radiant crystals.

Compound this with the "What's in Development" post found here: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/89218

There are three things of interest:
-A new boss
-A new mode
-More to Come

Any of these could explain a new feature, but I would like to point out that the entirety of that post is likely in some sort of chronological order, or that in the least, the developers have gone with "arcade reconstruction" first. Specifically the bit that has the words "Over several patches" bolded and up front where we can all see it points this out. And I simply must quote:

- A sandbox-type experience where unexpected things can happen
- A place where players can farm materials and items in between missions
- A feature that gives players some degree of control over the experience

Now let me quote some more:

"Arcade Redux - Phase 1"

All of this implies that the developers have a plan that they are following closely and that anything on that list above that isn't in the game will likely be.

So... is the arcade a sandbox-type experience where unexpected things can happen?

Sort of, but not really. You go down. You are told a level. You know exactly which enemies you'll be fighting. You know exactly where you will end up at the end of the level. You know exactly how many crowns you'll make compared to other levels, and exactly which materials and monsters you can fight in that level. You know whether there will be a chance at a danger room, or a danger room, or nothing. You know these things because you were a T1 knight before you were a T2 knight before you were a T3 knight. The only difference is that now everything is reskinned and shoots different bullets.

Has this changed recently?

New pickups were added to the game files that may or may not drop. But does that really constitute the entire change?

"This includes significant changes to the Arcade experience and does not represent our intended final design for the Arcade Redux. "

This tells me not. But what else do they have planned for that?

The apocrean mission went to depth 30, and the radiant crystals start dropping on depth 28. This means that there could indeed be deeper levels added to the game, but a new T3 boss doesn't solve the radiant crystals thing... he/she would still be in T3. However, the developers are adding in new end-game content that directly connects to the story.. and-

As everyone pointed out- "You just gave us a challenge mode! Its called Elite Mode and you promised more!"

So... Normal Mode. > Advanced Mode. > Elite Mode. > CHALLENGE MODE.

I don't think so. What if we placed Challenge Mode at the end of the rank missions?

The arcade is supposedly to become "A feature that gives players some degree of control over the experience" again in a future update. This implies that we will be able to control the levels again and that the number of levels may be in flux to some extent.

What if:

Challenge mode = a new minigame of some sort that may provide radiants/other rewards?
With the new boss/missions leading up to it past depth 29?
With an abundance of new handguns and then later swords and bombs added into the game to be used fighting against it?
With the arcade redesigned to accommodate for this new endgame, which would either lock us on cradle farming against it, explain why we must stay, or open up new pathways?

One time I made a suggestion for the core: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/74848

We could see ourselves getting something like this in the future. Not that I think the devs have heard me, but I could definitely see some sort of variation of an endgame that pays out in radiants or something else.

And thats just one trail of thought.

"A feature that gives players some degree of control over the experience." again could imply that the number of levels in the game could change. What if the core were moved downward to accommodate for more missions? If things don't fit together like I think they will, then we might see something like that occur. The new gate construction means that gates as a whole might change entirely. The changes in orb locations and spark numbers could also reflect on this.

And why might the developers do this?

We the goofy-forum-people have long suggested that FSC's payout be nerfed. What if you moved the arcade version down by say, 3 levels, and then made it to where you would have to go to the arcade to farm crystals from it? It fits.

Or if they're making the challenge mode an end-game event/the core/whatnot:

It'd explain the quite sudden, quite large, improvements to the knight. Before the battle sprites, I was quite average. But now... I can dash and bash and summon fireballs and go invisible! Surely, there must be some kind of new content to nerf we the knights of T3? Some kind of legitimate challenge coming our way?

Even if they aren't going to do something with the challenge mode, they could still have us going down further... What if the new T3 boss was juxtaposed downward? After all, there can only be 4 bosses because there are 4 gates. The game could go something like:

T1 > T2 > T3 > Core

Where the Core would be the new boss, and the Challenge Mode made entirely irrelevant.

...and in the end, it all comes down to this:

Something really meh is coming. (Nope! Challenge mode is just like elite mode but harder. Just another money-grab by OOO.)
-or-
Something really AWESOME is coming. (Actual content! Developers were planning something after all!)

And Nick (along with his 24 amazing new guns) made it out to be awesome.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:45
#1
Merethif's picture
Merethif
Challenge Mode sounds like a

Challenge Mode sounds like a PvP to me. At least it's description definitely works for Lockdown so I think it will be similar, just with different aim - instead capture points it will be about picking up objects and bringing to your team's scoring area or something like that. I doubt crystals will be rewarded in PvP.

Anyway, nice to see you back (I think I haven't read you for a while).

Oh and by the way, somewhere around 15th line you put "radiant shards" instead "radiant crystals". I guess we all miss old Radian Sun Shards ;-)

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:00
#2
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Nick posted:

Challenge Mode
In addition to the exciting features we have planned for the Arcade and Rank Missions, we're busy working on an all-new 'challenge mode' that will allow players to work as a team in cooperative scenarios and compete with other teams for a high score. Challenge mode will also feature rewards for those that really excel.

---

"Challenge mode will also feature rewards for those that really excel."

Though I suppose it could refer to krogmo coins, it seems to me as though it would have to be some kind of new reward... it could be the super brawl crown (if it is a pvp type event), but it was made out as a different thing entirely, with no mention of other PVP events. Consider that King Krogmo is very specifically for PVP; putting what sounds to me like a score attacking game here would kind of break that. Though really, it could be made to fit anywhere.

You do have a point though. "In addition to.." kind of implies that it won't be directly connected. It could however, still be an endgame kind of event. In fact- "for those that really excel." denotes this.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:02
#3
Wolfe-Knight's picture
Wolfe-Knight
Wolfe-knight applauds

Not a bad idea of why this would be happening but changing fire rates now before the clockworks/challenge mode update is here is just a bad move. It may be the case but if so it is possible one of the worst things OOO has done. Changing the rates at the same time and I bet very few would hate it, changing it way before the update and everyone hates it.

Challenge mode sounds more about skill than gear to me. My idea for it is that there will be a challenge each day (much like prestige) where they give us predetermined gear to use for that mission. You would run through the floors clearing as much as possible as fast as possible while taking as little damage. At the end you would probably be ranked among everyone who ran it and be rewarded at the end of the day based on rank. This is what I am hoping for as it will be competitive while relying on skill instead of gear and UVs. Anyone could play it and not worry about the competitive side as well as everyone past a certain rank will be rewarded. Rewards could range from cr and fires to straight up free forging and CE.

Side note: Another possibility for the radiants is that they were nerfed so shining could be farm for the apocrea and gunner updates. Only a theory but something to think on. Also, I had a good laugh at you "Nick (along with his 24 amazing "new" guns)" comment, oh you.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:24
#4
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Wolfe

Yes, they could have been nerfed for the Apocrea event, but as I said above, they changed all of the drop rates around a bunch, and the game and its drops is.. largely in flux.

Also consider that the Challenge Mode feature will be teamwork oriented. Making it a daily challenge type thing might take away from that, considering that you would have to organize teams for it.. like guild lockdown. Whenever I logged on to do the daily missions, it was kind of like taking medicine. Was it what I really wanted to do? Not really. I didn't orchestrate a whole team for it, I just invited one friend or something and we would have a go at it. Making a daily event of it would consume some people and leave out others, and comes across as being a bit odd to me.

--------------

Added a thought on a new boss. Since there are only 4 gates (if this doesn't change with the flux, and because the arcade is exactly however big..) the new boss could be more akin to a T4 boss.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:29
#5
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir
Yay!

1st short comment of this thread!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:30
#6
Skayeth's picture
Skayeth
Spam

2nd shortest comment of this thread!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:36
#7
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Please do not spam my thread :(

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:54
#8
Wolfe-Knight's picture
Wolfe-Knight
Wolfe-knight applauds

@Fehzor

I forgot about the teamwork part and really only designed that idea around solo play. Daily quests are a bit of a chore as it is something we have all done before, but having a randomized event would mix of that monotony a bit. Maybe have four different groups to rank by, solo, two, three, and four man, and rewards would be based on the group. This way even if you would just want to run it solo you would not be punished and put in the rankings of a full group. Daily quests might no be the way to do it but if it was left up to the players we all know massive farming would happen.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 14:19
#9
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
Sandbox Comment

My prediction on the sandbox comment is a new deposit point for minerals -- allowing a dynamic control of gates as you are playing them. Right now gates are completely random. However from the quantity of effort they put into this current system (read forgot to remove slooms) I believe it is more temporary than people make it out to be. Every stratum area might have a mineral deposit point to "tip" that stratum into a desired type.

Unfortunately, the "gate minerals" addition doesn't quite fit this prediction, as if you are dynamically changing your stratum - its hard to preview the materials accurately (although now it is still a vague guideline).

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 07:57
#10
Giannivanmarion's picture
Giannivanmarion
Level Editor

Wouldn't it be awesome if there was an advanced level editor added to the game, people use there minerals to buy things to be placed in there levels and make it completely themed like they want. Your levels can be played by you, friends and members of your guild. The best levels(rating system) would be added to the 5th arcade the community-gate for 1 tot 2 days. than the next levels would join in.

More secret things should be added to the arcade for you to collect and make weapons / gear from(rare materials). These secrets would spawn just like PK did.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 08:09
#11
Draycos's picture
Draycos

Those 24 brand new guns might actually mean 0 new guns and 24 variants of existing guns, if you follow the reasoning behind the Obsidian gear.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 08:11
#12
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@SkeptiCraven

Yep. One of the biggest issues the developers must face is the misalignment of supply and demand.

If there are 5 battle sprites, and all are attained in the same way at the start of the game... one will undoubtedly be biased towards. This will cause the blizzard all over again, and doesn't really accomplish anything... in order for them to make their thing work, they need to:
-Not bias people with uneven payouts/battle sprites; it was never really player driven.
-Provide incentive to make certain levels; like hunting materials/darkfang shields.
-Give players actual control over the system; I need to be able to contribute in a way that doesn't require total control of the playerbase.

@Giovanni

I personally believe that a level editor would be the wisest thing that the developers could possibly do for their game;having interaction on that sort of level would truly make a name for Spiral Knights, and would fit directly into where random generation and modern rogue-likes seems to be headed. Whether it is actually plausible or not is a different matter, but not one that actually has any effect. If some other game does it, and there are other games working towards that adamantly, no one is going to stop and say "But SK wanted to and had a small, incapable dev team, so they should be credited..." because that would be silly.

That being said, SK seems to be moving in the oposite direction: away from customizable content and towards a more traditionally planned plot line.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 08:42
#13
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
@Fehzor

It's SkepticRaven.

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