How about we have a thing where if OOO wants to change something, we vote on the options and the majority vote chooses what happens. So they can conduct a voting thingy, coming from suggestion threads that get a lot of attention or likes, and we vote on how we want it. Eg. Bring back the old Sun shards. 300 votes vs 60 votes. The old sun shards are brought back.
The suggestion that is better than all.
This is almost a good idea... Which automatically means it will never happen.
Logic doesn't belong in the world of SK.
I got over it long ago :)
At the moment this is how the chips are on the table:
1. 000s think of some 'awesome' new game 'breaking' update.
2. 000s tease us by releasing notes on their 'plans'
3. 000s release random accessory update or event to distract people.
4. 000s open test server. Where everything is buggy to distract people.
5. 000s release random accessory update or event to distract people.
6. 000s finally release new 'awesome' plan that breaks game.
7. 000s are happy.
8. 000s new update upsets everyone.
9. 000s release random accessory update or event to distract people.
10. 000s plan for next 'game breaking' update.
Wow, I feel as though I just went through a 2 month time period in 15 seconds. So accurate it hurts.
/clap
But not always the best course of action. Only players who come to the forums would be polled unless its via an in game mail or something. What I believe is that we should have a sort of petition ability that goes directly to the developers and has a very basic format. Maybe it would require a certain playtime or money spent in the last three months in order to send one in, and players who are eligible can send two petitions a week.
Petitions would be on everyone's social tab so that we have a larger sample, and would have a very basic setup: a title with a brief explanation of the issue, and at least three simple ways for it to be fixed. Players would digitally sign this petition, and maybe pay a small crown fee (yay, crown sink). In town square, to the right of the auction house, there would be a bulletin board that had a list of all petitions on it. The petition with the most signatures would be submitted to Three Rings at the end of the week, and a short response would have to come from them the following week. This message could also be found on the bulletin board. The same issue could not be petitioned on twice - GMs could delete petitions already posted and an automated response would be sent to the creator and all those who signed it.
This is just my wishful thinking and might be a good way to encourage more talk between the community and the developers. :)
Voting system is a good idea. That way we can truly see if 000s take into account what the community really want.
I like that idea Fangel. We could change it a bit. It would be in-game and in the havens there will be a new place, I dunno where.(ideas are welcome) And you can look up petitions. If petitions are made in-game you can look it up it in a new place on forums, and if it is made on forums it can be accessed in-game and via forum.
Having it be very simple is key. We could have a petitions subforum where we discuss petitions in action, but the petitions themself should remain in game. All players need to do is click a "sign" button if they agree. As you said, it has room for improvement.
If anyone wants to turn my post into a standalone suggestion on the suggestion subforum, feel free. I'm on mobile right now so it wouldn't exactly be easy for me.
This system is not hard to implement. Here is a thread I have going in the Don't Starve official forum. I set up a voting system. You can even see who has voted. Devs here can set up a similar way to allow us forumers to vote if we like the idea that they are planning to release or not. My name is green there because I am a Moderator, so don't waste a post here asking why its a different colour.
http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/27817-a-new-monster-bearigerti...
OOO dont like listening to aniying ppl (lm not saying you are)but first time this game camo out logic and the thread ppl ideas were thrown out of the window l +1 this but OOO wont care.
This is not a Democracy. End of story.
Want an example of why? Look at America.
Also, just because the majority wants something, doesn't mean the majority is right about what is needed. This is a game, and we don't need to bring politics into it.
Well OOO will have to ultimately decide what happens so if it isn't good for the game it wont happen. Also if the opposing party disagrees, and states a valid point, it will not be added. It has to be a VERY good point however.
Sounds great! I vote that the developers mail us free money. That would be nice.
Fun Fact: Democracy wasn't originally considered a "good" or even viable form of government.
Politics? Democracy? Are you drugged up?
This is a kids game where a lot of kids are unhappy with how things are at the moment. A voting system will allow everyone to have their say regardless if 000s listens or not. People will discuss after the update and you'll see some people for and some against, but who cares. What ever was being released has already been released, they can discuss how bad it was all they want.A voting system will be solid proof of how many people were actually for or against a particular update before it was released. That way in the future people can see if 000s actually took into account what their player base wanted.
The reason why anyone would think this system would get out of hand is because that's the way the sk community is. No one really respects one another. You have to be very careful what you say as someone could blow things way out of proportion.
The unenlighted gamers,
You cannot make the judgement call,
Give up your free will forever,
Your Voices won't be heard at all.
Display your paypal,
While never beg for more rads,
And blindly swear your fan-base,
Let your MMO control your mind,
LET YOUR MMO CONTROL YOUR SOUL.
Live in ignorance and purchase your prize boxes,
When the cash and money is the real cause,
Thinking ceases and the truth is lost.
Don't you worry,
You will be told exactly what to grind,
I give my players the promos they need,
The spiral order shalls succeed.
The fires of greed will burn the F2P,
So I will make mist tanks obsolete,
Breaking down, the fabrics of reality,
Let recycled contents control what you see!!!
Let your MMO control your soul,
Let your MMO control your mind,
Let your MMO control your soul.
LET YOUR MMO CONTROL YOUR MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep free elevators, but bring back old heat system. Everyone but one guy votes no. The one guys makes a ridiculous amount of alts and wins. Everyone finishes the game in 7 days. Done.
@Arcknightdelta: I'm going to pick your post apart, sentence by sentence.
This is a kids game where a lot of kids are unhappy with how things are at the moment.
Yes, kids these days are whiny little brats that don't appreciate what they DO have.
A voting system will allow everyone to have their say regardless if 000s listens or not.
People already get their say regardless if OOO listens or not. It's called the forums. They can also talk to their friends about what they want both in game and out.
People will discuss after the update and you'll see some people for and some against, but who cares.
People do that already. That's why they make a stickied thread in the General Discussions to discuss the update that just happened.
What ever was being released has already been released, they can discuss how bad it was all they want.
People do that. I see plenty of threads about how people don't like something about a past update, or just about something in general.
A voting system will be solid proof of how many people were actually for or against a particular update before it was released.
What's the point if OOO doesn't listen? Back to your second sentence: "A voting system will allow everyone to have their say regardless if 000s listens or not."
That way in the future people can see if 000s actually took into account what their player base wanted.
A poll wouldn't prove if OOO took the popular opinion into account or not. They could have taken it into account but decided against it.
The reason why anyone would think this system would get out of hand is because that's the way the sk community is.
The SK community would distort the poll results to get what they want, so I agree. It would be more trouble than what it's worth to go through steps to prevent it.
No one really respects one another.
Didn't seem like you respected me. You asked if I was drugged up.
You have to be very careful what you say as someone could blow things way out of proportion.
This happens anywhere.
The forum community represents only a small, vocal, easily enraged part of the community. An in-game poll would be better than the forums.
Also, I always felt the accessory promos were more "We're running out of money and we need to pay for soup and beans," not "Hey look a distraction!"
Agreed that what the majority wants won't be the best direction for the game. There have been good ideas, but also a bunch of rubbish. I'll take the OOO team who make a living making games over the opinions of a community who have varying mental ages.
If they were making the events just to put food on the table, they'd stop making content linked to temporary events and make permanent content promoted by temporary events.
Part of it really is just bad decisions.
Not-Hollows you should just let people express their (not completely competent) opinions, just so that they can feel like someone is ACTUALLY giving a rats... oh yeah no swearing.... so that they can feel like someone actually cares.
As i have already explained; if someone states a very good counter argument and OOO has senseible(emphasis on senseible) reason to disagree, it will not happen. I think this is good because it can attract new players, and shows us that OOO cares and listens to us. This way we can get good content. Also the system will notify if alts try to vote and wont let them. If there is a very close poll, then it wont be made.
"If they were making the events just to put food on the table, they'd stop making content linked to temporary events and make permanent content promoted by temporary events."
Why? Temporary events add a sense of urgency. The player has to participate NOW before it goes away, making them spend more NOW. If a box that had Dragon Wings and Valkyrie Wings became permanently available, yeah people would spend real money for it. However others would be more willing to slowly save up for it. Work for it over the next few weeks, and get it without spending a dime. If the box was only available for 1 day, people would be far more willing to spend a bit of money, because they have to get it NOW.
In general, OOO pretty much always profits when players take a shortcut. Want more heat crystals? Want that shiny new weapon? Want more money in general? Well you can either slowly grind, or just spend some IRL money to get that stuff immediately.
I didn't mean that kind of content, silly. Not cosmetics, things like minigames and Black Kats and Apocrea.
@Draycos:
Alright... but the same principle still applies, albeit less so. Apocrea is kind of a weird exception because that was just a promo for the holidays. However, how many people would of bought Silent Nightblades from the supply depot, or alchemy orbs, or fire crystals if they knew that they could always get Apocrean tokens? How many people do you think would have grinded Candlestick Keeps for hours on end if they knew Black Kats were going to be a permanent thing? How many people would of been willing to buy a Kat Tribe Fetish, or even a Book of Dark Rituals if they knew they could always eventually get one?
Once again, temporary = urgency = rushing = $$ for OOO
@Blackoutdehpwnzor: Was I stopping anyone from giving their opinion? I was only responding to what he said to me. I expressed my opinion, and he tried to dispute my opinion, so I was disputing his disputing.
To be fair if I heard someone yelling democracy or politics in a gaming environment predominantly played by children, I would think they were high, the children present at that time would probably wet their pants or choke on a chuppa chup. There would be panic and disorder everywhere. It's a game, not meant to be taken seriously. The worst I have heard is some guy relating religious fanatical ideology with games. I didn't mean to disrespect you, I just thought you made an unnecessary outcry and I responded that was all. If you took it the wrong way that's your problem. I meant nothing by it. Moving on :)
You missed a big point I am trying to get at. So I'll be happy to explain. What happens everytime a new update comes out, there are some people who will rage. Agree? I think you do agree so nevermind answering that. What happens is that nobody takes much notice. Yes you will get people who will defend 000s and maybe argue an alternative case, but in the end it is just words thrown over the Internet eventually to be lost and forgot about. Yes people can talk to their friends in game or on here, but honestly who cares? Nothing will change. There will be no record that can be easily accessed by someone in the future who wanted to see how many people were for or against.
A voting system will be a sort of permanent record of numbers. In the future regardless if anything was done after people agreed or disagreed, someone could go and check how many people did agree or disagree because numbers don't lie. Posts can be edited later, people can change their minds. But a voting system will be, there and then, a record of that time that can't be changed later. Yes people can distort votes, that goes without saying, but you are just picking at small details and magnifying them. If in the future someone wanted to say critically review Spiral Knights, looking at the voting system they would clearly see what the majority were in favour of. Just because we know people will mess things up doesn't mean you give up. There are always ways around a problem. Furthermore voting systems are used around the world to encourage socialising and equality. You can't say having a voting system would make things any worse. Am I making sense?
Edit: you're right about that last point. It does happen everywhere. I moderate on another forum and see such behaviour every time. It happens because people want it to happen. If someone said something to me I never assume the worst. I clarify what their intention was then base my response from that. 8/10 times the person was either sarcastic or was joking around.
Is that 'not so competent' comment directed at me? I thought what I said made perfect sense? Please clarify the incompetent parts if you are referring to my comment. I'll be happy to explain if that is the case.
A voting system? It would most likely get more players on the foums.
Exactly. Sirius-Voltbreaker has made a good suggestion to be fair. If people feel they have a chance to make a difference then what is the problem with it? Not only will they be able to add their vote and they can also see how many have voted as well. This is far more easier than scrolling through pages and pages of comments. One box, 1st page, tick yes or no, add a comment if you want and bang bobs your uncle.
@Arcknightdelta: The discussion threads aren't deleted. I see quite often enough that OOO takes into account the feedback from these threads. If it were a poll, someone is BOUND to have a very strong emotional position on it and try to distort it to their own liking. Don't try to tell me this is something minor, because it would happen, I guarantee it. And polls would be lost and forgotten about anyway, just like these threads. If they needed to be pulled up for whatever fantastical reason you come up with, the threads could be pulled up just as easily.
Say they did have a poll, and have had one since the game released. There would have been a poll on whether Jellies got spikes or not. But who cares what the popular opinion on it was then, because everyone now is accustomed to having Jellies with spikes. The change itself was what is forgotten. Enough time goes by and no one even remembers, and there would be no point in still brooding over the Jelly situation. The polls would simply be forgotten just as easily as the threads. If no one cares about the threads, then why should they care about the polls?
I don't believe any voting system should trump developer decisions, but rather enough votes means Three Rings must give us an official response on the issue at hand. This response could be a short "great idea! We'll work on doing that!" or an explanation as to why they don't believe the course of action suggested will help the game and their business.
So I take it you won't be voting if there was poll then ;)
"The discussion threads aren't deleted."
I didn't say they were.
"I see quite often enough that OOO takes into account the feedback from these threads."
Again, I have no doubt in this what so ever.
"If it were a poll, someone is BOUND to have a very strong emotional position on it and try to distort it to their own liking."
Do people not get highly melodramatic when things haven't gone their way anyway. A person can only vote once. Unless you are telling us all the whole of the SK community will all succumb to a a violent emotional tantrum and everyone will vote like headless chickens, then ok I agree.
"And polls would be lost and forgotten about anyway, just like these threads."
I disagree. There will be a new sub forum where all 'polls' can easily be accessed. Each thread bearing a poll will have said poll clearly visible in the OP. So no scrolling around through pages of childish rants.
"Say they did have a poll, and have had one since the game released. There would have been a poll on whether Jellies got spikes or not. But who cares what the popular opinion on it was then, because everyone now is accustomed to having Jellies with spikes. The change itself was what is forgotten. Enough time goes by and no one even remembers, and there would be no point in still brooding over the Jelly situation."
This is a pathetic example. We would be voting on bigger game changing mechanics. If there was a poll for the addition of the forge. And everyone had the chance to voice their opinion before it was released, I doubt the forge would have been what it is now. Or if it was the same regardless of how many people voted for it, 000s would have no choice but to explain the reasoning behind their decision. You can argue that what is it to me if 000s wants the forge to be like this, it is their game so get over it. Well who are the people playing the game?
"The polls would simply be forgotten just as easily as the threads."
See above. I disagree for that reason.
@Arcknightdelta: I would not vote in such a poll that is being suggested.
Since you edited your post, I'm editing mine:
You did say that the threads were lost, but how could they really be lost unless they were deleted?
If OOO uses the feedback from their own discussion thread, why do they need a poll especially if their own method already works?
What is to prevent someone from voting more than once? If the poll was to remove Auto Target, how many LD players do you think would jump at the chance to try to misconstrue that?
Even if the polls had their own section they went in, some polls would still be lost and forgotten. More polls would pile up and older polls would be pushed back.
My example of the Jellies was to point out something that could easily be forgotten. OOO is never forced to explain their decision making process, and I will argue that until the end of time.
Sirius-Voltbreaker is just giving an example.
Sorry It took me a little longer than I expected to get my reply back to you. I had to collect some things from the car.
@Arcknightdelta: I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Additional Side Point:
Also, if you want to get technical, we already have polls. It's that in game survey that comes up every once in a while. Plus there was that other larger survey that was available some months ago. It may not be what is being suggested here, but it is what OOO wants. It collects the data that OOO needs. If OOO felt that their data from feedback on updates wasn't enough, they would do as they felt necessary.
"Since you edited your post, I'm editing mine"
Fair play.
"You did say that the threads were lost, but how could they really be lost unless they were deleted?"
Lost as in forgotten. I used to know an awesome quote from a book I once read. The book is over 4000 pages long. If that quote was on page 1 of the book, I would never forget where it was.
"If OOO uses the feedback from their own discussion thread, why do they need a poll especially if their own method already works?"
It clearly doesn't work. Why are there so many people boiling over the addition of the forge then?
"What is to prevent someone from voting more than once?"
I am not pulling this idea out of my butt. The Don't Starve Official Forum has a voting system that only allows you to vote once. It isn't rocket science.
"OOO is never forced to explain their decision making process, and I will argue that until the end of time."
This here is the biggest load of rubbish I have heard yet. I thought this too until I played other games, where the developers were always happy to explain their decisions. 000s aren't forced to answer but they should answer if asked, especially if they are asked the same question millions of times. It's called excellent customer service. If my team at work asked me why I failed to reach the monthly quota, and I blanked them, I would most likely be reported and replaced by someone who can reach the monthly quota and who has the courtesy to explain themselves if they couldn't. If you think otherwise you are highly delusional.
Edit: you're talking about those surveys we get when we log out? The ones which say rate your experience? Please what Sirius-Voltbreaker is suggesting here is far more important than those. I love 000s so much I play the game for 2mins and if that survey pops up I vote everything top marks. Don't hate on me for distortion ;)
@Arcknightdelta: Yes, but you did say lost AND forgotten. How was I supposed to know you were being redundant?
You cannot prove that it doesn't work. People will always be upset no matter what happens. And just because the majority are upset about something, doesn't mean it should go. OOO hears the complaints, and for all you know could be trying to do something about it.
I don't know anything about the prevention method(s) that are used in the forums you mentioned. There are plenty of ways to vote more than once, and I really doubt they have been able to prevent all of those ways.
I'll still argue, but I don't really think here is the place. So if you want, we can argue that point in game or elsewhere. If not, I will argue it here.
No, I'm not talking about those surveys at all. I'm talking about the ones that ask various questions and you usually have a multiple choice answer.
"You cannot prove that it doesn't work."
Neither can you prove it does.
"People will always be upset no matter what happens. And just because the majority are upset about something, doesn't mean it should go."
That isn't for you to decide.
"OOO hears the complaints, and for all you know could be trying to do something about it."
Again I have no doubt they wouldn't. I have shared a number of emails between 000s and I was very happy how they dealt with certain things.
"I don't know anything about the prevention method(s) that are used in the forums you mentioned."
You don't need to. You're not the one who needs to worry about these things.
"I'll still argue, but I don't really think here is the place. So if you want, we can argue that point in game or elsewhere."
I don't have time arguing with someone who is so far up someone's backside they find it difficult to think and see things clearly. I love 000s and this game. I have never had so much fun playing any other game. But please don't expect me or anyone to take what you say seriously if you say things like this.
@Arcknightdelta:
Here's a recent argument I had with another guy. It touches on several points I would make, so I'll just let you read it instead of writing it all out again. Link.
Also, I bet I could vote twice on their poll.
Thanks for the link. I already read that discussion, hence why I was prepared when discussing similar things with you.
Trust me if you find a way to vote twice. I will find a way to vote three times against you ;)
@Arcknightdelta: So then it could be distorted.
I thought you were trying to end this, so responded in a comically manner.....
You're wasting time asking me this. I'm not involved in anything game related in my career. There are many 'if' 'buts' and 'could be'. You can't have that attitude in life. If you want to get something done, think positively. Best advice I can give you for now.
@Arcknightdelta: I was only trying to say that I could find a way to vote more than once on a poll that you insist is impossible to vote more than once on. I'm only trying to prove that it is possible for a poll to be distorted. In fact, the in game survey they have can be distorted, plus that other larger one they had out of game a while back could've been distorted too.
"I was only trying to say that I could find a way to vote more than once on a poll that you insist is impossible to vote more than once on."
Saying and proving it are two separate things. I can jump over a an 20 foot wall. Can I prove it? No.
"I'm only trying to prove that it is possible for a poll to be distorted."
You haven't proved anything yet.
"In fact, the in game survey they have can be distorted, plus that other larger one they had out of game a while back could've been distorted too."
I'm sure they can. But we are not talking about those surveys.
I'm finding this rather boring now. You are going round in circles.
Defeat is hard to admit, but it makes you a stronger person. Just give up Hollows.
You're right. It's hard to argue with someone who makes unreasonable arguments to begin with. The only defeat here is not knowing how to make you understand.
I'm a stubborn man to break. Now please find someone else to convince. I'm done here. Nothing I have said has actually been proved wrong with solid evidence. Maybe someone will challenge what I have said later, by then I'll have got over this thread, and wouldn't really care if this voting system gets added or not.
Laters.
At the moment this is how the chips are on the table:
1. 000s think of some 'awesome' new game 'breaking' update.
2. 000s tease us by releasing notes on their 'plans'
3. 000s release random accessory update or event to distract people.
4. 000s open test server. Where everything is buggy to distract people.
5. 000s release random accessory update or event to distract people.
6. 000s finally release new 'awesome' plan that breaks game.
7. 000s are happy.
8. 000s new update upsets everyone.
9. 000s release random accessory update or event to distract people.
10. 000s plan for next 'game breaking' update.
I love this game so much. My play time will back that up. Over 2000 hours! But this is basically what goes on since 000s teamed up with you know who.