Spiral Knights - Should their be benefits of not equipping a shield? ( while using a sword )

Should their be benefits of not equipping a shield? ( while using a sword )

56 Réponses [Dernière contribution]

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 06:26

Kirito-Bs

I experimented with weapons and shields ,etc and I tried going for the snarbolax without a sheild and only use sword and the out come is.... a fail cuz when i was fighting the boss i couldn't block or defend so im thinking if u don't equip a shield u can have replacements for the shield bash and the block.
so here is some of my ideas for replacement

REPLACEMENTS : shield bash To Quick step
Quick step
Quick step is when u click the shield bash button u will dash backwards and evade any attack while moving back ( even spikes but when land on spike still take dmg)

Shield bash to Back slash
Back slash
i came up with this idea cuz i think if u were surrounded and if u only attack the fount then there would be space for enemy at the back to attack u. ( i know cuz i've been trying these things. )

REPLACEMENT : Block to parry
Parry
To use click the right MB ( mouse button) For a short amount of time you can deflect and counter attack any close range attacks but u cannot deflect any ranged attack

Block to Blade block
Blade Block
Basically using the side of the blade to block enemy attack but has less mobility than a shield also used like shield canceling.

Benefits : ASI increase and sword power increase
i say these cuz i think of if we actually hold a sword without a shield we could hold more power and speed on the sword rather than with the shield
this is only basic ideas if u chose to develop it fine by me but if u chose to judge my ideas plz be nice :)

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 06:39

Dibsville

No.

I'm quite honestly surprised we can even un-equip our shield.

Also, not everyone's control scheme is set up like yours.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 06:44

Hexzyle

-1

To use click the right MB ( mouse button) For a short amount of time you can deflect and counter attack any close range attacks

You can already parry by attacking with any weapon that deals good knockback. Try a Troika or Sealed Sword and laugh in the faces of anything that uses melee-only attacks.

Basically using the side of the blade to block enemy attack but has less mobility than a shield

So basically having a shield when you don't have a shield equipped. Then what's the point of unequipping the shield?

Benefits : ASI increase and sword power increase

Sacrificing the Shield-Cancel maneover so you are unable to move for half a second after every combo or single swing is not worth that.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 06:47

Kirito-Bs

true fact but

but we still can have hope like the duel wielding project and the spear project no one ever gives up and is still trying to convince other plp

http://i.imgur.com/S6YXJhI.jpg as the creator says to duel wielding.....

and these ideas r for everyone everyone can be holding shields and not holding shields its always their choice

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 06:50

Dibsville

People who don't hold shields

People who don't hold shields do so for a reason.

They don't do it because it gives them a different moveset.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 06:54

Kirito-Bs

Objection to Hex

Hex it is worth sacrificing your defense for better dmg + i meant parrying not like knockback but instead deflect and does not cost anything but the weak point is ranged attacks

http://www.faceandprofile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/objection.jpg

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 06:57

Kirito-Bs

-1 to Dib

then gimme a e.g of a reason then?

cuz i don't think losing one of your main defense is a good thing so i want to put some good points of un-equipping your shield

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 07:00

Dibsville

it is worth sacrificing your

it is worth sacrificing your defense for better dmg

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Barbarous_Thorn_Shield
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Swiftstrike_Buckler
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Chaos_Cowl
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Chaos_Cloak

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 07:02

Kirito-Bs

so?

what if u don't have enough money to make these? huh?
what if u dont like the look ? what if u hate shields?

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 07:04

Dibsville

Are you being serious right now

You don't have enough money to make Swiftstrike Buckler?

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 07:09

#10

Krakob

Swiftstrike and Proto Shield mostly fill this role, honestly. You don't have a shield for shielding but it helps you in combat.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 07:10

#11

Hexzyle

Hex it is worth sacrificing your defense for better dmg

You're not sacrificing your defense, you're sacrificing your ability to dodge attacks entirely. Everything you could normally have dodged in time, you'll be hit by. Have you even played a Shadow Lair or a Danger Mission?

what if u don't have enough money to make these? huh?

So you want to have a more powerful weapon without paying for it? I can't be the only one who finds that funny.

what if u dont like the look ? what if u hate shields?

Why would you even play the game if you don't like the graphics? Why are you playing a game clearly labelled Spiral Knights if you hate shields? If shield graphics are that bad, delete the texture or model files. That way you'll never have to look at them.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 07:26

#12

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

I inform krakob that proto shield can't shieldbump. it was a pain cause they don't give you shields till the Defender, practically (they give you the recipe for emberbreak set, but they give you the cobalt set right after, so...)

I don't think it's a good idea. the shield blocks damage entierly, it's a part of the playstyle of every single player to block when needed or to shield cancel. then comes the great question: why only with swords? because swords are the only one meand to make big damage? oh dear.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 08:12

#13

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

So you want to have a more powerful weapon without paying for it? I can't be the only one who finds that funny.
I'm laughing right here with you, brother.

@ Kirito-Bs
As a self proclaimed sword master and an avid user of shield cancel, the ONLY way I would ever not use a shield is when I'm looking for style points while holding Acheron. And I never do it while playing seriously. Seriously man, do you not realize the importance and advantage of the shield cancel?

But then again, given your name, I can see why you like to fight with only a sword...

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 15:38

#14

Kirito-Bs

meh

maybe ya all right :/
And again my name gives it away
Im just cant find a game with all the things i want
and im not the ' sword master' i experiment with swords but im not the strongest etc

+ aint this the suggestion forum? why cant i show my ideas without everyone criticizing my name etc ? why r u plp so mean just cuz u don't like my idea?
if u dont like it why even bother commenting? NON of these comment give me a positive respose

This is what one of the rules say ' Be excellent to each other. Keep your posts respectful and polite. Disagreement is fine, but scratching, biting, and hair pulling is not allowed. ' *sigh might as well go on other forums instead of this cruel one -_-

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 16:05

#15

Mushy-Bucket

---

Theoretically, would it be so wrong as to grant a good amount of MSI to a shieldless person? Shields are generally heavy so it ought to make sense that a knight would move at a higher rate of speed without one. Like, MSI VH or something. It's certainly not a reason not to use shields (ahem, Swifty and shield canceling), but it would be realistic and would be handy in the case of guild-based achievements and showing off your shieldless skill.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 16:16

#16

Kirito-Bs

+1 to mushy

your right but that only apply to real life

But in SK logic it doesn't apply (sadly) :/

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 17:22

#17

Voltorian

-9000 +9001
@Dibsville
dude chaos cowl and chaos cloak are helms and armors, not shields. so what if they increase damage? that DOESN'T MAKE THEM SHIELDS
AND GIVE US A REASON WHY SOME PEOPLE DON'T USE SHIELDS

initally, i didn't like this idea, but when i thought about it, i thought that there really should be advantages to not holding a shield. sometimes i forget to equip a shield after doing pvp with a loadout that no longer has my shield in it because i upgraded it
ASI medium/high
MSI high/very high
knockback increase low/medium

take a look at the Striker and Recon class in LD. although they have the boost, it's limited, why not allow that for ppl who don't like using shields? STRIKER class doesn't shield. RECON class doesn't shield. people who for some reason don't like using shields should be able to at least craft things similar to these
and BN doesn't have shields either, its all dodging and timing

i have to hate what other people are going to comment against me, but i'm with @Kirito-Bs on this one

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 17:51

#18

Arkate

People don't use shields.

To be challenged, and for costume purposes. If you add in all this crap, it won't be much of a challenge. Although I love D&D videogames, which have a different shield system that takes off damage, while parry blocks damage, this is not a great suggestion.
-1

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 17:59

#19

Sandwich-Potato

Theoretically, would it be so wrong as to grant a good amount of MSI to a shieldless person?

Theoretically, would it be wrong as to point out the incredibly heavy Suduruska and Triglav?

knockback increase low/medium

No.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 18:03

#20

Kirito-Bs

+2 to Volt

@ Voltorian : i agree with u and if u were to replace the shield bash button and the RMB ?
i had some ideas but i think i need some new ones :/

@ Masterreeve : i disagree with u because u can replace shield cancel with something called ' PLAYER REFLEX' and u can attack and dodge even though u might need a bit more time to master it

@hex : OBJECTION . when i say if u don't have enough money to make it i mean that when the weapon cost over 100 k and u only have like 10 k or 5 k and u have nothing to sell also the weapon is on for a limited time like the OE or other event gear.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 18:11

#21

Mushy-Bucket

---

@Sandwich
The heavy swords already work out their weight effects in the form of being incredibly slow, versus the 'lightweight' and quick weapons like FF and DVS.
Shields, on the other hand, don't have any difference between the effects of not having one versus having one. What I'm really getting at is realism. But, I'm not really going to push for my idea because who in their right mind plays SK without a shield in normal circumstances anyway?

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 18:38

#22

Sandwich-Potato

Realism?

What I'm really getting at is realism.

OBJECTION . when i say if u don't have enough money to make it i mean that when the weapon cost over 100 k and u only have like 10 k or 5 k and u have nothing to sell also the weapon is on for a limited time like the OE or other event gear.

And a 100k weapon that will never ever ever return and is not identical to its counterpart is...

i disagree with u because u can replace shield cancel with something called ' PLAYER REFLEX' and u can attack and dodge even though u might need a bit more time to master it

/e coughs.

No just something in my throat Yeah really Yep

And if you are, say, surrounded after lagging into a crowd of monsters?

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 19:33

#23

Arkate

Don't answer that Kirito. You'll probably add some crappy ability called super-ultra-killstrike that is an AoE OKHO, where you take your fist and shove it into the ground.

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 20:52

#24

Dibsville

---

"dude chaos cowl and chaos cloak are helms and armors, not shields. so what if they increase damage? that DOESN'T MAKE THEM SHIELDS"

"it is worth sacrificing your defense for better dmg"
"it is worth sacrificing your defense for better dmg"
"it is worth sacrificing your defense for better dmg"

/me was giving examples.

"AND GIVE US A REASON WHY SOME PEOPLE DON'T USE SHIELDS"

http://bit.ly/JN0WmQ

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 22:24

#25

Xtweeterx

Don't want shields?

3 words:

swift strike thingy

jeu, 01/02/2014 - 22:55

#26

Hexzyle

@Kirito-Bs

1. Very few weapons that don't have reskins are over 100k. By very few I only mean three: the three apocrean weapons. Every other weapon costs less than 100k to make, and that's assuming you buy 90% of your Orbs of Alchemy.
2. If you want more powerful weapons, why would you bother with the Obsidian Edge? The Acheron is WAY stronger, not to mention far easier to obtain.
3. The world revolves around money. "I don't have enough money for that" is not a valid point for arguing your case. It just makes you look like a scrub.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 00:38

#27

Midnight-Dj

Well, Kirito, there is your problem, you can't find a game with everything you want in it, it is impossible.

Mario gives you great sense of accomplishment when you mastered a level but it holds you back with its bad graphic as well as childish story line, CoD is FPS at it finest but the shooting and the zombies are really nothing new and it is about the same for the last three games (WaW, Bo and Bo II), SK is fun and the gear combination is cool and all, until, of course you are stucked with FSC grind and radiant drought. And last but not least, Skyrim, theoratically the best RPG game ever made, still has some pretty boring locations and NPCs (do you really care about the NPCs? All I care about is that stupid arrow in the knee joke. The rest of the storm cloak vs. imperial crap doesn't intrest me.) There is no such a thing as the perfect game, of course you can always wait for another ten years to play VRMMORPGs, who knows you may just meet your Asuna, for now though, stop dreaming.

And also, how dare you forget about your shield? If you can't afford shield, just use your proto shield, that thing can still obsorb some damage even at T3, so yeah, just equip one, you never know when you will need it and also, you need a 4* shield to pass your certification! NOW go out there and get one, even the defender is better than nothing!

ven, 01/03/2014 - 02:38

#28

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

can Kirito explain me why he wouldn't use a shield exactly? if it's only for the boost it might give, you had better get some money in the arcade and buy another weapon/ craft a chaos cloak.
also, re: why only with swords? because swords are the only one meant to make big damage? oh dear.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 02:43

#29

Hexzyle

A note on preventing double-posting

@Thunder-The-Bright

If you aren't sure whether or not your comment has been posted or not, you can check back on the thread by right-clicking the link above "Preview comment" and selecting "open in new tab" (alternatively you can just middle-click)

ven, 01/03/2014 - 04:27

#30

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

I already do that; just he didn't answer the question. that's what the "re:" is for.
if it's not for that, then I need explnanation.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 05:23

#31

Hearthstone

@Dibsville

You CAN un-equip the shield, I just did a run using a loadout w/out one since I forgot to switch...

@OP

I was thinking of better attack speed and movement.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 05:36

#32

Dibsville

You CAN un-equip the shield,

You CAN un-equip the shield, I just did a run using a loadout w/out one since I forgot to switch...

Used to run RT without a shield.
I know.
/look

ven, 01/03/2014 - 06:17

#33

Kirito-Bs

*sigh

i do use a shield..... i use a 4* shield the Dark Thorn Shield
and this is an experiment and not a argument
I have my own thoughts i dont need plp giving me navigate response

IF U DONT LIKE THIS DONT EVEN COMMENT fine by me

Btw @ hex : dont u dare hate the OE and U CANT COMPARE THEM : http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/94855 ( read my post and trolls) -_-

ven, 01/03/2014 - 06:36

#34

Dibsville

---

U CANT COMPARE THEM

My Acheron, which is nowhere near Level 10, does more damage to an unpoisoned enemy than a Level 10 OE does to a poisoned enemy.

You can very easily compare them. Acheron is, to date, better. Not in some situations or anything like that. It's just better.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 06:40

#35

Kirito-Bs

100% needs a punch

like i said acheron for rushers and
OE for tacticians and for healers do ditch out dmg for them

OE just traded his dmg for the poison effect thats all

ven, 01/03/2014 - 06:54

#36

Dibsville

OE just traded his dmg for

OE just traded his dmg for the poison effect thats all

Any Slime or Gremlin you could poison with OE so that healing hurts them, you could have one-shot with Acheron, or at the very least out-DPS them.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 07:08

#37

Kirito-Bs

but the difference is

that OE low risk low dmg but with effect

OE has low dmg but it make it safe so u can watch and plan out your next move

Acheron is high risk high dmg no effect

fast and must be played by attacking no other plays u can have but easily get crowded and hurt

ven, 01/03/2014 - 07:12

#38

Dibsville

Except that Acheron is a

Except that Acheron is a Brandish.

And Brandishes excel in the fact that their charge is exceptionally safe to use, while their normal attacks are fast.

And also safe to use.

There's very little risk to using an Acheron, especially when all your enemies are dead.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 07:43

#39

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

OE low risk low dmg but with effect
Acheron is high risk high dmg no effect

sorry, can you back this up? Acheron and OE are identical, if not that one has more damage and the other has poison.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 08:24

#40

Kirito-Bs

+1 to thunder

normally i disagree with thunder but this time i agree with u :/

ven, 01/03/2014 - 08:32

#41

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

@ Kirito-Bs
But Thunder just said exactly what you were arguing against...

ven, 01/03/2014 - 08:39

#42

Kirito-Bs

u misunderstood?

me and dib was not arguing we were discussing how we compare OE and Acheron their was no right or wrong :/

ven, 01/03/2014 - 08:41

#43

Dibsville

me and dib was not arguing we

me and dib was not arguing we were discussing how we compare OE and Acheron their was no right or wrong :/

^ This.

Comparing two weapons is completely opinion-based. I personally still prefer my GF to Acheron when I'm doing anything remotely hard. I rarely use my Acheron outside of Arcade and RJP.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 08:45

#44

Masterreeve

I make you black, bluue and red all over

I often substitute the word "argue" for "heated respectful debate", just because it's a lot easier to say but that is what I meant.

But I was just saying that you were talking about how OE is safer to use while Acheron is risky, but Thunder was saying that they were both the same. I don't know, maybe I did misunderstand that part.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 08:56

#45

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

masterreeve: I don't know, maybe I did misunderstand that part.

me too. /stare
"back up" something means provide proof that what you say is true.

ven, 01/03/2014 - 09:04

#46

Sandwich-Potato

Acheron outclasses the CIV against Undead.

Need I say anymore of its power?

ven, 01/03/2014 - 10:46

#47

Mushy-Bucket

---

While it's a bad idea to get in this debate, Acheron completely outclasses OE. How? Think of it like the old Polaris and Supernova, but reversed. The Supernova does more base damage, but it actually does not make up for the loss of shock, or how the Prismatech Alch is weaker due to it's lack of status. The Acheron and OE are the other way around. Acheron's base damage is far over what it should be, outclassing all the brandishes and doing as much damage in one hit as one GF hit. Well, what's wrong there? Turns out the Acheron does three hits and the GF does two. Based on some guilds' charts and research on the wiki, it would appear the Acheron is the highest DPS weapon in the game, unless it is surpassed by DVS or DR, which weren't tested, but that's doubtful.

sam, 01/04/2014 - 03:22

#48

Zeddy

What should be done is that we remove swiftstrike buckler and just give ASI high to people without shields equipped.

sam, 01/04/2014 - 04:05

#49

Dibsville

What should be done is that

What should be done is that we remove swiftstrike buckler and just give ASI high to people without shields equipped

If we can't shield cancel like we can with SSB, wouldn't that kind of remove the point as well? I can't really say I know for sure, and I probably won't test it, but wouldn't shield canceling with a shield be faster than not shield canceling with ASI High? If not faster, would it even be worth it over the significant loss of a shield?

sam, 01/04/2014 - 04:53

#50

Kirito-Bs

the subject is lost..

its impossible to decide cuz we'll just go on and go on like this and we wont come out with a result :/

But to be honest is it impossible to make your ASI higher? and should we continue to use shield cancel ?

Recherche

Should their be benefits of not equipping a shield? ( while using a sword )