You can join my mentality and just kill off the talentless polaris :). After a while the game kinda loses it's fun and it just becomes way more satisfying watching them shoot air and dieing constantly. To each his own though :)
Why do you poop when you have to take a crap?
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 05:42
#52
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 05:57
#53
Contri is trying to come
Contri is trying to come back, hmm.
Title
Why do people take LD so seriously?
The actual thread
Acheron/polaris discussion.
Can't say I'm surprised.
Blueflood
I defeated a few polaris spammers last week, now they won't stop being butthurt because they lost. You can't win bro. You either lose to their polaris, or defeat their polaris and get flooded (haha geddit?) with poorly written complaints.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 06:46
#54
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:47
#55
realistically the acheron is no more overpowered than anything else is, and given the current metagame catering to hybrids to the point that you either have full chaos players or bkc + shadowsun players, with wolver clones being just a shadow of their former overglorified selves, it ends up working out in the long run. sure it only takes 3 hits for acheron to drop nearly anyone who isn't swinging a dual shadow+normal high or better, but when i can drop most acheron users in 4 FF hits, maybe 5 if they're in skolver, then whatever. compound the fact that most people don't know how to deal with guns and their hitstun, and the acheron isn't so bad.
only people i really bother giving a wide enough berth to when they're using it are icy, exiled and redblades. and if i have a team that is either doing exceptionally well capping or just can't make it out of spawn because there's two of them on the other team, then i still don't mind putting myself between them and the team.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:47
#56
Saying that Polaris is the most OP is silly. Just take a step back and think about the weapons that you take for granted.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 08:23
#57
iron slug for most OP
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 10:30
#58
It is krakob.
The input vs result of that weapon are so messed up it's not even funny.
I could give a monkey a one button controller and he'd probably still be annoying with a polaris.
Much more than if I gave him a flourish or GF.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 11:27
#59
That's a lot of things but it's not a proper comparison. Polaris actually requires the user to aim where the enemy might be next, make sure to not reload, and spread the bullets. Gran Faust doesn't really require much either. You need to get to your enemy and click a button. Three times and you're done, if you use the combo at least once.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 12:12
#60
:;
FeyixKra:
You both make valid points.
This talk about Polaris reminds me a lot of old Sun Shards: The bombs went in a consistent 8 directions, but for some reason, people got hit by it enough that bombers would often deal 10k damage in games. Never made sense to me except that average players are terrible at dodging.
There was one guy I saw who literally went around spinning and arbitrarily using all 3 polaris bullets the entire game (close enough to 'monkey with a one button controller'). He was annoying. Maybe it came from me getting trolled by his "im a gunner now right??" and the painful view of him using all 3 shots, but he was far from effective. Annoying, yes, but effective, no.
Feyi's right in that they get a lot of reward (if not actually hitting, can keep people from approaching) for something as simple as doing 2 shots and pausing, especially when used staggered with a group. But Krakob's also right in implying that effective use does require some semblance of prediction (or at the very least, strategic use). Most people don't use Polaris as a direct-hitting gun, but as a keep-away weapon to block off chokepoints, kind of like a haze bomb, except the 'bomber' isn't exposed to bullets while trying to set up the wall.
Wed, 01/29/2014 - 14:38
#61
This is what you get when you
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 01:30
#62
Beware, long post. SORRY!
@Sci + Feyi: Reading your comments emanates with a lack of understanding of my side. Or rather, a refusal to understand, while I fully understand what you're trying to say. I used to be like you. I didn't want to accept things that I didn't like, even though it wasn't necessarily wrong; it just pissed me off. Then, I played games on a competitive level (UMVC3, SF4, SSBM, KOF, etc) and learned. Competitive level meaning I played with the best around the globe for a prize (usually money). I'm going to assume that you guys have never been in a setting like that, so you don't know what it's like to live in an environment where the only thing on your mind is winning and how that changes your perception on things. If you want an extreme example of what the competitive nature / play to win is like, look up "Chris G" on YouTube playing "Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3" and you might get what I'm talking about.
That said, naturally, this mindset carries over to almost every game I touch. I could pick an item that is less good, but why would I do something that stupid when I could just pick the best one and make my life easier? I could pick a fighting style that is considered more "legit," which by this community's standards is engaging with a sword. But, why would I do that when I can produce the same result (killing my opponent) from afar; a safer position. From what I've gathered, you guys believe that people should intentionally pick the most difficult option, or at least, the non-best option because that shows how much more skill you have, even though the result is the same. A kill is a kill and a win is a win no matter how you execute it. If you lose, learn from it and get better.
And just another thing, I personally enjoy fighting other Polaris users. It helps me better understand it and fighting a variety of styles is why I'm still here. Instead of raging over something that you don't know how to fight, you should be trying to adapt to it. Crying isn't helping anyone. It's actually pretty fun trying to download another person and figuring out how their mind works. That's why I play SK and fighting games. If I get completely crushed by someone, that just makes me more interested in figuring them out so I can be a better player. I'm not even very good at LD, but it's always fun because I can constantly try to refine the way I play and it's great!
You guys should really learn to take things less personally too. The only thing that I've said that may have offended you is calling you childish, which is kind of true if you actually look at your comments from a third party's perspective. I'm hoping that after all this is over, we can still be friends and junk. Holding a grudge/vendetta over a little misunderstanding/disagreement on the Forums of all places would be a bit silly, after all.
Anyways, this thread is derailing pretty badly so I'll Grave this some time tomorrow probably; I want you guys to see this post so you can understand me and we can be friends or something c: If you guys want to discuss this further, feel free to talk to me in-game. I really do enjoy having friendly conversations with you guys.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 01:43
#63
If all you care about is winning, i suggest you become an AT brandish + valiance hybrid. The worst noob there is.
Polaris just gets you a few cheap kills.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 03:48
#64
@Scirio
I hate to break it to ya but Lightningelement isn't lying.
As for Lax, he has a point. Polaris is more or less the third to most effective Bomber elimination weapon, just behind Blitz and Antiguas. Only Polaris and Antiguas have other uses in LD and while Antiguas can be nice, Polaris offers more utility while Antiguas only provide damage and interruption, which makes Polaris the preferable sidearm in most cases.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 04:04
#65
Krakob, why are you trying to
Krakob, why are you trying to justify your use of polaris? I wasn't arguing against it.
All I was saying is "those are the responses you get when you ask people to stop". It's a nice example of how rude people can get for no apparent reason.
As for pewpew, your arguments are so incoherent there's no point in arguing with you, just fight a team with 6 vs you polaris for a full 8 minutes and then come back here.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 04:39
#66
You weren't? Asking people to stop kind of implies you do. The only reply I'd consider rude was the one from Illu.
As for justification, it's as justified as everything else in the game. Keeping the game balanced is up to OOO, not the players.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 04:45
#67
You weren't? Asking people to
You weren't? Asking people to stop kind of implies you do.
If you look closely you'll see I wasn't the one asking.
The only reply I'd consider rude was the one from Illu.
That's the on I meant.
As for justification, it's as justified as everything else in the game.
So why are you still trying to justify it then? If it's justified regardless.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 04:50
#68
Ah. I should probably pay more attention. Figured it was you since you posted the screenshot. Sorry!
As for the justification of the justification (am I doing this right?), people tend to consider Polaris to be something like cheating, not something meant to be in the game. Polaris is however in the game, just like any other weapon. Same goes for AT, combos, bombs, and everything else.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 05:41
#69
Oh, I didn't press that screenshot link.
Let me explain:
Bomber walks around all over the map with VT, and he dies from Polaris from some guy.
He asks our team to stop using Polaris with a nice attitude.
Doing so is to me equal to:
-standing still beside him not attacking.
-ignore all capture points where he is.
or
-walk into his VT and die from probably GF swings.
The only ways to beat a bomber who never stops putting down mistbombs are shoot him or wear status resistance.
My team mates didn't have a shock resistance set on. Telling someone kindly to let you win and expect someone to do so is stupid. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is crazy.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 06:29
#70
"Sorry but your bomber is too
Telling someone kindly to let you win...
According to you, there is no way to beat us without your polaris. That's kind, thank you.
"Sorry but your bomber is too strong for us to beat without polaris." What you could've said.
"Just shut up." The rude answer you gave instead.
If you're frustrated, don't take it out on us.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 06:24
#71
-
I am almost 100% certain that OP was in Jempire given the similar ethos shared between him and the guild.
He bears a striking similarity to username: Manlet/Tazam from speech patterns, playstyle, as well as the exact same armor/accessory scheme.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 06:47
#72
Competitor
@Pew-Pew-You:
Crying isn't helping anyone. It's actually pretty fun trying to download another person and figuring out how their mind works. That's why I play SK and fighting games. If I get completely crushed by someone, that just makes me more interested in figuring them out so I can be a better player. I'm not even very good at LD, but it's always fun because I can constantly try to refine the way I play and it's great!
Oh, that's good you come from a competitor's background. I did a bit of [local] competition and participated much with the Smash community myself and similarly have taken a lot of mindset from that as well (don't get hit; getting hit is your own fault; if you lose, you were outplayed; aside from whatever the community has deemed imbalanced and not fit for competitive play [for money], nothing is 'cheap'; don't make excuses for your losses; play to win).
...but that has a place - in serious competition.
I am like this as well and it's why I keep coming back to LD, but step back a bit and realize that the competitive community has never been the majority. This is a good mindset to have when you're playing to win, but playing to win is taking the game seriously, and not everyone is into that (the original question in the thread is implying everyone else is taking it seriously while you're not, huh?). Trying to force everyone to think competitively (heh, as much as it'd make this community a better place to be) is like going over to a really young friend's house and while he's trying to figure out the controls or trying to do a special move that 'looks cool', you come in and start performing infinite combos and 0-deaths wondering why he's wasting his time with inefficient options instead of going for the best option. Think that's any fun for him? Back to SK, you might have a bunch of below-average players just learning how to play with what gear they have (cause remember, not all gear is accessible anymore), and you're going to go in and start throwing an option that shuts them down? Face it, most people can not dodge Polaris shots nor do they have the gear/skill to counter it... For what?
I can understand play-to-win if you're going for a prize (tourneys) or GVG, but in random lockdown, are you really going to try hard for that 40 cr profit? You'll just be a nuisance to people who are playing casually. Recently, I've been experimenting with other weapons (ex: the rigadoon line), or finding likeminded people who just want to go around as a team of guardians doing Triglav charges. It's really annoying to try to practice something new or play in an entertaining way (seriously, hitting people with the second part of Trig charge is hilarious) and suddenly get 'forced' back into using your regular gear/playstyle cause some tryhard wants to spawncamp your team.
Going back to the Smash thing, Smash wasn't a game intended to be played competitively; Part of what tournament organizers did is come up with rules that keep the game competitive (skill-based) and fun - because if it isn't fun, you'll have a smaller playerbase and less payout. If you don't let people have fun in Lockdown, they'll leave as soon as they don't have to do it anymore. They'll be less likely to stay, play around and experiment, get better, and they'll continue to see LD as polaris hell and avoid it.
That's no good.
[edit]
Also, the metagame is still developing; what people consider the best now might not be the end-all sets. I can remember when not too long ago, people thought that Striker with toothpick swords were unbeatable, and they were constantly whining on forums to "nerf toothpicks!". Fast forward to now, people use brandish line (Acheron/Voltedge/Glacius) and hybrid with valiance (and/or a heavy sword+toothpick for a wide area option). Cause honestly, Polaris can wall off an area for people who can't deal with it, but gl trying to use it for anything when someone worth their weight breaks through.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 06:53
#73
I mean for any gun, not just Polaris. It just seems like I think they had to use Polaris because in this case my team mates did use Polaris.
I for example killed that bomber very easily with swords only.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 06:59
#74
Dear Pewpew,
When your original post states that you believe people take Lockdown too seriously,
and you final comment states that you approach Lockdown with the same mentality that you play competitive fighting games..
I have no intention to reason with you anymore.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 07:00
#75
^
GG
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 07:02
#76
Seiran, in case you weren't as plugged in as I was (ran quite a few tournament) Metaknight was viewed as such a broken character that he was eventually banned at every pro Brawl tournament because of the monotony of having to watch the top 8 or 16 (based on participants) just play metaknight. He had built in frame perfect moves that just made him too powerful for even competitive play. Everyone playing the same character the same style isn't a very fun competition.
Now this was heartbreaking to the metaknight mains of course, but holy crap did the community as a whole agree. Any why did the metaknight mains not like this? Because they fought a lot of NON-metaknight players and beat them because of their OP frame perfect character.
Want a humbling experience OP? Go fight jempire when they're going polaris happy. It might put you in your place. Or you can get some skill and put away the talentless gun with your sword damage bonus max.
IN YO FACE!@!!!!
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 07:28
#77
Feyi and Seiran raise the best points. Random lockdown is more of a "casual" environment; feel free to do whatever it takes to win in GVG matches.
Pew-Pew, you mention dedicated fighters like SF4 and UMvC3, but even there you'd know how messed up the balance can be sometimes (Wesker and Phoenix in MVC3; Akuma in SF2T--after all they had to make sequels to the game and tweak the balance. How often does SK rebalance weapons? And when does it ever rebalance for Lockdown as opposed to PVE?)
Blueflood raises the point that even in dedicated fighting games, developers screw up the balance among characters and sometimes the community needs to step in and make house rules to better the playing experience. I'd have no problem with limiting each team to 1 Polaris user, but some prefer none at all.
Lockdown barely counts as a dedicated fighting game, more like an endgame destination for players done with the PVE experience in SK.
They will release a thousand promotional costumes before they consider balancing weapons/gear for Lockdown. After all, the Acheron buff and Spark of Life addition to lockdown definitely showed they weren't even listening to what people were asking for.
At this rate, after the new hypothetical Pulsar lines show up, they might just give Supernova Good Chance for Moderate Stun just to mess with people.
We might need a dedicated Polaris Day where we have full teams of Polaris users just to show how annoying it can break down the game.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 07:36
#78
+1 to the dedicated Polaris Day.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 07:41
#79
It's really annoying to try to practice something new or play in an entertaining way (seriously, hitting people with the second part of Trig charge is hilarious) and suddenly get 'forced' back into using your regular gear/playstyle cause some tryhard wants to spawncamp your team.
these are usually the most fun matches until the latter option happens
unlike tenkii i just have a low tolerance for it, so yeah
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 08:33
#80
polaris is the easiest thing
polaris is the easiest thing ever and acheron is way too damaging for how fast it is.
pce
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 09:01
#81
:;
Blueflood: Seiran, in case you weren't as plugged in as I was (ran quite a few tournament) Metaknight was viewed as such a broken character that he was eventually banned at every pro Brawl tournament because of the monotony of having to watch the top 8 or 16 (based on participants) just play metaknight. He had built in frame perfect moves that just made him too powerful for even competitive play. Everyone playing the same character the same style isn't a very fun competition.
Oh, I'm familiar. I sort of fizzled out from Brawl shortly before that (finished college, ran out of people to play in person with lol; Steak main). But it is included in what I meant:
Part of what tournament organizers did is come up with rules that keep the game competitive (skill-based) and fun - because if it isn't fun, you'll have a smaller playerbase and less payout.
Stage bans, (hopefully only rarely) character bans, infinite bans, ledge grab limits... etc.
Of course, that kind of thing is always up to the tournament organizers. I know some SK lockdown tournaments have done things like Polaris/Hammer bans.
In RLD, there's not much control over it; people will do what they do, but at the very least for people who are aware of it and care to have newer people stay and get better instead of quit ASAP, it's better to make it a fun experience and save the serious stuff for the right place.
:093:
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 23:22
#82
@Sci: Again, you just don't want to listen. Which is fine. Wanna be friends now?
@Erlandr: Why you tell the whole Earf my secret?!? /grin
@Seiren: Word. Cool to know that there are other Smashers around here ;) And yeah, I get what you mean. Truthfully, I do the things I do in RLD because I don't have a guild so the only time I get a chance to practice is in RLD, which I hardly even play anymore anyways because of all the negativity. I feel like you can't get better if you aren't trying your best, so I just play as well as I can each time, with the mentality of getting hit as least as possible and at least stall my opponents so my team mates can get caps; my entire strategy is to be a decoy for my mates. That said, I never cap... I need to work on that lol.
@Feyi: I never said I didn't play seriously. You just assumed things. When I play LD, I play as seriously as humanly possible (when I play against other good players at least). I just don't rage because I'm not 10 years old anymore. I seek to improve and improving is fun to me. I created this thread to know why people take it so seriously to the point that they're taking it personally too, hence the "children" and "manchild" reference. The title of my thread is a bit misleading, I guess. And again, you should take things less personally. I'm not even trying to fight with you but you're already in defense mode... Relax.
@Flood: You sound like one of those guys in the FGC/Smash community who bashes players who choose top tiers. Someone's gotta do it, bub. Like I said earlier, you can win with a bad character or a good character, but at the end of the day, a win is a win. The only difference is you worked harder (or not) for the same result. You've been here long enough that you should understand that.
And yeah, Jempire is OP. Love those guys even though I've been banished from their turf for life for curling in the squat rack ;_;
@Momo: I don't have a guild though... Only time I get to play is in RLD... :c
I think the dust has finally settled... Not sure if I should Graveyard or not...
Fri, 01/31/2014 - 09:11
#83
This is not a fight.
This is an attempt by people to help you understand how mentality such as yours is not good for LD as a whole.
It has never been personal.
"Polaris is easily the most overpowered weapon in LD" *cough* Acheron *cough*