Spiral Knights - You don't live in USA? You can't be good in LD!

You don't live in USA? You can't be good in LD!

94 replies [Last post]

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 10:57

Bleyken

Hi, I'm the Almighty God Contri (not a pony) and I wanna talk about LD.
Some people take LD so seriously and think that it's a good game in where you can be good with skills and practise. That's true, but it's false too.

First let's define what you mortals consider "good":
Damage, caps, defends, wins and losses, kills, deads, speed, predictability, aiming... All of you think a player is good when do tons or damage, kill everyone in 1 vs 1, always dodge hits...
A good player should be able to do all this to have "skill" but some players CAN'T do it. That's because the conection don't let them do it.
Some players can be a lot more skilled than the "so-called pros" but they won't do good scores and they will never be considered as "good players" because they can't hit and dodge like the american, canadian, english... players.
LD will never be a good game because conection is 90% of the "skill" that you need to be "good".
You can still be good with bad conection if you are very skilled (like Feller, Fayeth, Mitezuss, Bacon (sometimes),...), but you can't be "the best" with more than 100-150 ping.

There's a video that I made in 5 min to show how conection gives you disadvantage when you have 200-250 ping and low FPS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5PPFF0PNUA&feature=youtu.be

Thanks to Bing Bong for his help with the video and thanks to that random hammer guy who killed me too.

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 11:04

Reto-Da-Liz

The Almighty Pony God is right once again.
It's too bad that we will never get new servers, so the only way to get a good ping is to book a ticket for Ireland or Virginia (and have a decent net too).

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 11:16

Blue-Flood

I'm still a firm believer that AT is pure ping advantage.

When gunning (non-at) it's so much trickier to hit people with lower connection then high, and the higher ping players tend to be able to punish me more often then those with single digit ping (Hadn and Crustycrab are great examples).

My experience swording is much less, but from what I can tell it's nearly the exact same. Believe it or not I caught on to this when feller said my AT antigua lines were the only reason I was beating him - they'd cut through any latency difference we had, and would make him just appear as if he wasn't moving for a full second after he was hit. After it was turned off, they fight was much more fair and enjoyable...

But that's just me.

Anyone else enjoy a fair fight?

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 11:37

Muffin-Top

That's right manco. I've felt that so many times...
I particularly agree about the effect of low-FPS-on-crappy-laptop delay.

WTB a house in Ireland and a decent computer

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 11:38

Seiran

Well yeah, the connections here are between each player and the server, not player to player, so yes, people who live far from the servers have a worse time. I wanted to try out EU server the other day (I live in Southeast US) and played 2 bar connection. I was able to deal with average players (because prediction is that important), but there was no way I could play vs any decent EU strikers.

That's just how it is.

Whenever people get into an argument with me about LD, I try to make it clear that the things I say about skill/AT/leadshooting are mostly for 3bar + connection. Below that, you're trying too hard for a game you're naturally disadvantaged and should just try to have fun in. It's really too bad for people I've met who live in Australia, for example.

Props to having the international rules in the tourney though.

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 12:09

Krakob

Honestly, I agree. High ping just makes some things impossible. Still, don't be too quick to blame the lag on the servers. I can get a moderately stable three bars on the US server all the way from Sweden. Not always, but it happens. I seldom see anyone researching their connection beyond noticing that it's bad and then being grumpy about it and blaming OOO, which really isn't fair.

@Blueflood
I don't mean to derail but I have beliefs that AT is processed server side. Hopefully I'll have the answer in a while.

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 15:38

Large-Noodles

Redblades says that it was him pwning contri the god pony
Redblades' IGN is "Contri-Rider"
Damn the connections in this crap.

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 15:59

Ardent-Light

Contri is right. You can't disagree with God. You really can't.
To be serious, Contri is actually right. There are no servers for the people not in europe or US, and even if you are those places, you definitely aren't guaranteed 4 bars every time.
This is what "skill is"
50% connection
10% gear
35% luck
4.5% Experience and knowing how to play.
.5% what controls you use. (I lost mah controller and and I am using the arrow keys... How the hell does Jayzio play like a pro with arrow keys?_

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 16:39

Erlandr

Yeap I am now 100% certain who poster #6 is.

I have been observing for some time and notice certain ticks they possess in their writing such as frequent use of 'kid', 'crap', as well as this strange connection to pony gods and contri.

On Cyrd, he tries to type with meticulous english grammar and spelling to try and fool us.

I have thus concluded Cyrd is Feller. He may change his name after this post.

The video additionally proves that the striker dash is indeed too fast for the majority of people's connections and that you love polaris.

@ OP's examples, LOL.
Feller, Fayeth, Mitezuss, Bacon.

-Feller has 2 bars which a stable less than 200-250 ping.
-Fayeth is the only one with the 'bad connection'.
-Mitezuss is in the same boat as Feller.
-Bacon still lives on the same damn continent as the server.

All have the ASI VH and MAX UVs we all crave. Feller and mitezuss play the polaris -> sword style which is hardly anything innovative and if everyone did the same thing then they'd pale in comparison. The only one with a real disadvantage is Fayeth due to living in Australia. In essence, OP infers we can be good with top of the line UVs.

@recurring AT issue.
the point is to make it fun for everyone and the real problem is that there's too many international players. The Auto-Target IS pure ping advantage because it calibrates much faster with lower pings, so the question is why do they want to give people with a natural advantage, more advantages? Try and put everyone on equal footing and LD may see another surgence of players. That is the best way to do it in my opinion.

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 18:28

Feyi-Feyi

I don't even get what you're trying to get at here contri.

Your internet sucks so you can't be the best at LD. Seems pretty reasonable.
You won't be the best at football either if you've only got one leg.
Accepting it is the only thing you can do.

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 18:38

#10

Knightofheaven

muahahahahah

I LIV in ALASKA so im in US so i win

muahahahahahahahaha

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 19:22

#11

Rezzler

@Ardent Brah, you didnt break

@Ardent
Brah, you didnt break it down right.

Its
10% luck
20% skill
15% Concentrated Power of Will
5% Pleasure
50% Pain

and 100% REASONS TO REMEMBER THE N-

I mean, succeed at lockdown. Yeah. Try it

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 20:10

#12

Kathrine-Dragon

@Rezzler

Lol you stole my lines. I blame it on bad ping.

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 20:40

#13

Large-Noodles

I'm not spanish kiddomy IGN

I'm not spanish kiddo
my IGN is Nykl
Feller doesn't even know me well, but I've beaten up crap in his record thread as well as in-game with him in some of my games

but damn, contri-rider just RODE you so hard..

also, feller has 2 bars and has the highest screenshotted damage in the game (53k)
your argument is invalid

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 21:09

#14

Son-Of-Hades

if i'm not mistaken, feller

if i'm not mistaken, feller got that 53k before he moved and got crappy internet

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 21:13

#15

Ardent-Light

Damn.

@Rezzler I wish I got that before you did...

Tue, 01/28/2014 - 21:28

#16

Sirius-Voltbreaker

Hey does anyone remember when I got 10k-15 each match? No? Oh right, I lag now.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 03:34

#17

Aesn

Your lucky, living in Australia I've never gone above a red bar. Though after a while I've kinda learned to get used to it. With enough practice I can sti get 10-20k dmg in LD without any UV's/trinks. I guess "practice makes perfect".

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 05:15

#18

Bleyken

@Aesn: Yes you can be good

@Aesn: Yes you can be good with bad conection but you can be "the best". Damage means nothing, you can make damage vs noobies but if you have to play vs 0 ping players like Bing Bong, Snark, Thrillnub,.... you won't do 20k with red bar and practise.

@Feyi In football the players with more legs (I never saw a football player with more than 2 legs) don't have advantage but in LD the players with better conection have too much advantage.

I'm trying to say that there isnt a "best LD player" because conection and AT (only if you have 3-4 bars) give too much advantage to some players and other players who live in Australia, Asia, or have a crappy laptop and a crappy conection can have more skill but can't do good scores.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 05:46

#19

Feyi-Feyi

That's just online gaming for

That's just online gaming for you contri.
Whenever serious online games have an event trying to see who's best they just set up a LAN game with all players in the same room.
That would be the only way to make LD 'fair'.

You just have to roll with what you've got and people will judge you on that and that alone.
They won't care about how good you could be with a better connection/computer, they'll judge you for how well you play with what you have.

But you're 100% right that we can't determine a 'best LD player'.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 06:51

#20

Dragneel-Wiki

Vokky's, Red's, Snark's connection...

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:04

#21

Scirio

Feller with 53k the highest

Feller with 53k the highest screenshotted dmg hmm.

Seems shady to me. I once saw a guy single handedly destroying a team of 6 players, died once then stayed alive for 6 minutes or so, took little damage, AT enabled. He got 37k. 53k seems unlikely to me. That's 16k damage difference, that's what an average player does during an entire match.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:25

#22

Large-Noodles

icycute has a score of 44k on the forums
multiple people have 42k's
I think it was ezho who had 47k
redblades hit 38k in a 4v4 (less people to farm damage off of)
Feller, back when he actually tried (and used his 90000kce skolver), was far better than these kids.
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1083390098900926211/E6CF52F3C726BE1C...

Hades:
he had 2 bars in the screenshot

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:47

#23

Seiran

@high damage:

After the removal of mist energy ("free revs" for people who only played LD), change to 25CE --> spark rev, Grinchlin Assault spark purge, people haven't been reviving as much and/or feeding damage like they used to.

Also, more people are getting better, so damage tends to be spread among teammates (and only the exceptional players get really high damage). Obviously if there are only a few damagers in the team, then they'll do a higher percentage of the damage. In a recent game (spark system), we had me and another person just guard shield/status for one of our teammates and after a few revives ( <5?), he got 46k damage.

[edit]:
In the past, when fewer people would even hit over 15k, it was more likely that you'd only have one decent player on each team, so they would hog all the damage. In the screenshot up there, I only recognize Feller and Danyx. The other guys were basically damage fodder.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:42

#24

Krakob

In football the players with more legs (I never saw a football player with more than 2 legs) don't have advantage but in LD the players with better conection have too much advantage.

Let me rephrase that.

In LD the players with four bars (I never saw a LD player with more than four bars) don't have advantage but in football the players with two legs have too much advantage.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:43

#25

Large-Noodles

forgot to put this screenshot up
redblades 38k 4v4
http://i.imgur.com/M0IGDrc.jpg

see, 53k is not impossible. if you can hit almost 40k in a 4v4, 50k should be easy in 6v6

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:45

#26

Kathrine-Dragon

I'm waiting for Zeddy/Krakob to come in with their record shattering EU score.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 07:53

#27

Krakob

Now now Kathrine, let's not go too far off topic. We're better than that.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 08:34

#28

Theirillusion

Redblades has screenshots of AT combuster, so what? That's not even impressive.
http://i.imgur.com/LULxt1f.png

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 09:10

#29

James-Walsh

As an Australian player that

As an Australian player that is on the USA servers when I play, typically against people in the US.. the handicap is immense.

I didn't even know there was a connection bar for the first month of playing until someone said there was one, I just thought it was a red dot since I've never seen it otherwise.

It would be interesting if they actually showed players latency, and gave them the option of grouping people by their latency, so laggy people could fight laggy people.

Or better yet they could put an ld server per continent.. but I know there's no chance of that happening.

All I can do is roll with the slaughter, most of my damage only coming from lucky prediction or people that are pretty bad at it.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 09:37

#30

Krakob

There are way too few players for servers of all locations to be viable. South eastern asia could work as it would attract Australian players as well but there's already a SEA server which OOO does not host so it won't happen.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 10:13

#31

Zeddy

@Scirio

That's because it doesn't matter how good you are the game. You won't be able to score highly unless your enemies suicidally throw themselves at you like buffoons. High scores in direct competition sports are associated with playing in the little leagues.

That is to say, being the one-eyed man in the land of the blind.

Lockdown players place a lot of honour in this.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 14:13

#32

James-Walsh

"South eastern asia could

"South eastern asia could work as it would attract Australian players as well but there's already a SEA server which OOO does not host so it won't happen."

Which is apparently horrible for players who speak english. Culturally Australia and china are worlds apart. If it were a regular server people might be able to use it without too much hassle... but losing all of your stuff to start over, then having a slightly different client with broken english, and losing all contacts/ties you have on the 'normal' servers.. bugger that.

The handling of setting up the south east asia server was done horribly, imho.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 15:07

#33

Icegill

It has been quite awhile.

Yet still, 99% of the LD community refuses to follow the original masters of LD. You people can damage hog, talk about PING and AT all you want, but none of you will be good. I don't mean to sound harsh but I am telling you once again that the principle behind LD does not include how many players you can kill or where you live. It is HOW you kill them, how EFFICIENT you can be in one match, your SURVIVABILITY and most importantly, controlling all 3/5 points on each map. (Also add TEAM effort in Guild LD). *Also have fun, it's not fun, the competition, I liked the idea of improving as a player = why I played*

Lag does delay your movement/other players movements, it is in EVERY game, DEAL with it.

*Cyrilmorrigane was not in USA, he was the best guardian.*

I myself have never scored above 43k or whatever my record was, yet I was still able to beat anyone outside of Aequitas in a regular guild match or in a 1v1. And I am sure that most anyone knows that. Thrill is an example of someone who is not known for damage. Yet he was *THE* best. He is known for how he plays and how efficient he is, saving time, saving points, saving teams, his juggling of weapons/players, abusing certain elements of the game so no one can touch him. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Aequitas still rules LD because that is far from true, as (most) of us don't even play anymore. But please, watch old videos, ask old people, try to remember how we played. Hydrohaze, Dravor and Drdrj come to mind on how to play Aeq style. I don't know if these 3 still play SK but if they do, I would watch them. I'm tired of logging on and seeing little to no improvement, yet why do I care?
I personally want to log back on one day and face the strongest of the strong at the time, I want to come back one day and rise back up and compare to the best at that time. Maybe other Aeq will come back as well, oh well. Cya everyone!

P.S - Hi Country.

P.S.S - Hi Country.

P.S.S.S - Hi Country.

P.S x 10^3 - Bye Country.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 15:21

#34

Bleyken

Hi Icey :D

"Cyrilmorrigane was not in USA, he was the best guardian" Sure.... And I fly...

"I was still able to beat anyone outside of Aequitas in a regular guild match or in a 1vs1" I remember that you never wanted to play 1v1 vs me, Feller or Bandido or join a no-AT tourney.... That ego....

"Thrill the best" well... no comments....

Dravor was very good, Drdj isn't bad but HAAze isn't good, and he don't have humor sense.

And AAequitas was a bit overrated...

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 17:20

#35

Icegill

Why join a tourney that still

Why join a tourney that still proves nothing? I didn't even join tournaments that had AT on, I simply did not like them. And I also did challenge Feller, he claimed I was too "coward" and "noob" to be in his presence in a 1v1. Aequitas learned to thrive without AT. We did turn on AT against Jempire to ensure victory 80% of the time.
Cyril was the best guardian when Badworm left.
Dravor (if he still plays) is the best. Hydro, because he doesn't have a "humor sense"? Really?
Aequitas was overrated, hence why we were hated by you spanish posse. And still we were on top!

I really don't mean to tell you off, or say that everyone here sucks and Aeq still the best. I am simply telling you that the reason why LD community was so active and alive and actually fun was BECAUSE of Aeq (v. Jempire). Everyone who is anyone uses Aeq tactics. You cannot sit there and tell me otherwise. Feller is the only person who uses his own tactics and is high up top in the skill set.

I honestly don't care. I am enjoying Awesomenauts and so is the rest of my guild. Do as you wish, my previous comment was a hint/tip.

Bye country. much love 2 u.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 06:52

#36

Seiran

I don't mean to sound harsh but I am telling you once again that the principle behind LD does not include how many players you can kill or where you live. It is HOW you kill them, how EFFICIENT you can be in one match, your SURVIVABILITY and most importantly, controlling all 3/5 points on each map. (Also add TEAM effort in Guild LD). *Also have fun, it's not fun, the competition, I liked the idea of improving as a player = why I played*

beautiful :;

Everyone who is anyone uses Aeq tactics

Never heard of these 'Aequitas tactics'.

I might be just another nobody, but I'm a nobody who carved my own style through my own losses and experimentation.
Lots of great strikers out there to imitate and learn from, but there were no recons for me to look up to.
#couldhaveusedareconcloak

[edit]
@Rezzler below:
I don't remember the rest of the guild, but Icegill was a legimately good striker, one of those 30k+ hitters who could disable your RLD team.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 19:40

#37

Rezzler

@Icegill Wow, someone's on a

@Icegill

Wow, someone's on a high horse.

Dont really care who you are, but some proff of your idiotic claims would be nice.

If you dont have proof that your old guild were "masters of lockdown," then go troll somewhere else.

If you do have proff that this "Aequitas" " were LD gods, then kudos to you and them.

For now, I label you as a lame troll who doesnt get enough attention. Guilty b4 proving innocence.

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 21:21

#38

Large-Noodles

Rezzler: Before I quit, I

Rezzler:
Before I quit, I noticed that every week Aequitas and Jemp would bring out the big guns for a couple matches.
Guess who won every time?
Aequitas.
this when people like Huntr, Bacon-Strip, Reqy, etc.. still played, and when the only person who could revive more than 4x was Rubyeclipse (unlimited cash!!!!!)
pretty impressive if i do say so myself

Theirillusion:
I don't care what redblades does. I'm just saying that 50k is possible

Wed, 01/29/2014 - 22:07

#39

Hellscreams-Forum

@ Contri

I love you for making this thread :P I will give you anything (only ecto drops) All hail Contri !?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 00:06

#40

Erlandr

was cyrilmorrigane from

was cyrilmorrigane from Canada?dayum, that's pretty exotic.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 03:51

#41

Krakob

Same here. Enlighten me about how I use Aequitas tactics. 'cause I don't think I've ever seen Aequitas play GLD.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 05:38

#42

Reto-Da-Liz

Oh I foresee a good old-style fight coming here!
I miss all the AT threads and people insulting each other.
Can we bring some of that back?

Also, what is Aequitas style?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 06:22

#43

Krakob

@ritAA dAA lAAss

You're literally begging to be insulted, so here I go. You lack ability to aim your weapons and rely on auto-target to use bAArbarous Thorn Blade combos, which makes you a bad human being. I say this, ignoring video proving the opposite available on your YouTube channel because I am pretending said channel does not exist. Not only that, but I will from now on not present anything new to this discussion because gathering proof is beyond my ability and putting effort into writing insults does not interest me.

P.S.: your mother and I are in an intimate relationship. She's a wonderful woman!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 06:22

#44

Large-Noodles

aequitas has no particular style.
There's icegill who goes super aggressive with his swords
then there's dravor who looks for openings
then there's thrillhaus making openings with his guns
then there's hydrohaze polaris spamming me in RLD

I guess he just think Aequitas style = skill

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 07:06

#45

Feyi-Feyi

Just come back to lockdown Ice.
Bring back the whole of Aquitas while you're at it.
I know Tmdals left us to rejoin you guys so I had hopes you might become active again.
There are still people out there worth fighting.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 07:09

#46

Scirio

Nicely put, I agree

Nicely put, I agree zeddy.

Also con-triforce, this one is for you.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 07:34

#47

Bleyken

AAequitas didn't have his "style"... Well, maybe the at brandish spam, if we can consider that a style...
99% of AAequitas players weren't good veteran players... I remember when Icey was a noobie and lick Mitezuss ass in RLD...
Finesse had a style, Chris had a style (but he was noob), Sciasz had a style, all the AAequitas noobies were kids with big ego who talk like if they were gods because they were famous some months...
And here is the "best ld player" playing for 1st time in a no-AT 1v1. enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzrD4fwHjuE

@Cyrd Jempire A team and AAequitas A team had the same level, but the diference is that the Jempire players at least weren't hypocrites. All the AAequitas "good" players (except juma) always cryed about pola spam and sh*t and in GvG they spammed like hell and only complained when they lost... And I f***in hate hypocrites.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 08:08

#48

Reto-Da-Liz

Slam dunk by pony!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 08:23

#49

Son-Of-Hades

yeah aequitas was skilled,

yeah aequitas was skilled, but they didn't claim any sort of "aequitas tactics."
@icegill dravor doesn't play anymore, hydrohaze has lost his touch, drdrj doesn't play as seriously as before.
I really wish aequitas would come back to see how much the metagame has changed. Players like icycute, fayite, jumamiza, redblades, and others i'm probably forgetting have surpassed the old aequitas in my opinion. That's not to say that aequitas players couldn't come back and regain the "throne," for lack of a better word. In fact, i really wish that aequitas came back to SK... we need more decent LD players. I'm tired of just seeing EoS v 21 v Jempire all the time...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 08:24

#50

Headshet

I'm not American and I know

I'm not American and I know very well what is this disadvantage, while Americans have 4/3 bars and we do not even 3. I sincerely doubt that any player "pro" could do +15 k dmg in LD with the connection 150 or more, when I do the connection test in my region, is 40 and when I ping outside (preferably in the USA) she multiplies being between 150 and 250.
As the ability to dodge (dash), with 150 ping on your screen while you're dodging, the screen of your enemy he is already beating you.

Search

You don't live in USA? You can't be good in LD!